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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe

Denmark
197 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2015 :  23:22:31  Show Profile  Visit Gustaveren's Homepage Send Gustaveren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

But how do you become convinced if you're not even willing to check it out?



That is a good question. The easiest method would be via a FR computer game in the new time period if it was suddenly on sale on steam with at least 75% discount since there is a good chance i would pick it up and then maybe at some point try it out. In case it turned out to be good would it ....

The other option is if they have published a lot of new setting books. It is likely i would then take a look at them in a roleplaying shop and if they seemed good would i just buy a copy of all of them but as i mentioned, it would require a basis of a lot of setting books before it looked interesting, well, i could live with a lower basis of setting books if they had at least committed themselves in public to a decent release schedule, for instance 1 setting book with lore pr month for the first 2 or 3 years.
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1079 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2015 :  00:20:48  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I really would prefer to see people picking up a book when it comes out and perusing it, then deciding whether or not to buy. I don't think that pre-judging things does anyone any good, especially when the product is not even out yet. How can anyone know if something is worthwhile to them, or not, when they've not looked at it? How can anyone know the value of something that doesn't even exist?

Heck, when Ed is excited and when we've been told that WotC wants to try to get back to the Realms we liked, why are people so eager to dismiss this? I am reminded of what lead to the Spellplague and the timejump -- trying to cater to people who were determined not to like the end result, even if it was exactly what they wanted.

And I really don't like seeing people encouraging others not to buy anything, either. You might as well be rooting for the failure of the setting, and its discontinuation.

I'm not saying we all have to run out and buy anything WotC puts out... Just give it a fair chance, and let others to the same.



I agree, but for me I sort of feel the same way about 4th and 5th, as I would feel for warhammer. It doesn't add anything to our 3.x pre plague d&d game. IF they produce new lore set in pre plague era or with anything with the 3.5 rules I shall be the first to buy it. But seeing as we play 3.0/3.5 set in pre spell plague time I dont see any reason to buyany new stuff... Remember We still play The same 13 year old campaign so changing now would demand a gigantic nerfing of my levels 31 wiz... Not going to happen.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30617 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2015 :  03:33:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As anti-Spellplague as I was, I still got all of the 4E FR source material. I got it on eBay; I wasn't going to pay full price nor give my money to WotC. But I still got it. And there was some good stuff. I didn't find as much good stuff as some others, but I did find some.

There are nifty things to grab from any edition of any setting, if you're willing to look for it.

I disliked what happened to the setting, and for me, the date in the Realms is 1375ish. But I'm still gonna give the 5E campaign book, when we finally get it, a fair shot.

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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe

Denmark
197 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2015 :  10:00:25  Show Profile  Visit Gustaveren's Homepage Send Gustaveren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, i did buy the 4e FR sourcebook, 4e FR players guide and the newerwinter campaign source book. The last one with a big discount. I stopped buying the FR books back in 2010 and I skipped those other FR sourcebooks (except ed greenwoods book on his version of the old realms)
Seemed to me, that those other books (Menzoberranzan, FR modules etc) was not worth the money they were demanding.
1) Pages wasted on big font size. I prefer Golarions smaller font size.
2) Pages wasted on eras i do not care for. Compare that with Golarion were i can use the content
3) Pages wasted on information already present in my existing FR collection. Compare that with Golarion were it is new information
4) Unreasonable high page prices when comparing with Golarion products.

Anyway. I will not buy into 5e FR unless they can deliver
1) Lots of sourcebooks. Look at the nice Golarion release schedule with a sourcebook and an adventure paths and some other stuff (for instance maps) every month,
2) If there is rules in the sourcebooks will it have to be rules from a system I am using, Golarion is using pathfinder rules, that is, it is acceptable if there are some pages devoted to rules but otherwise would it have to be without rules
3) A good and detailed overview of the important actions, royal family trees, border changes, changes in architechture, art etc during the entire timejump period. I am not going to buy a campaign world were that is a mystery. Look instead of the wonderfull details in the Golarion books were lore and complexity levels are rapidly improving.

It would also be a huge plus if future FR products switch to the paizo printing style since that one respects my book shelves by making sure there can be a lot of words pr meter book shelve. Book shelve space is after all going to be a limiting factor in the future. One of the reasons i on steam brough computer games i had brought in the past on DVD's but it allowed me to clear some book shelves by moving the content to the basement.

Edited by - Gustaveren on 03 Jan 2015 12:49:34
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe

Denmark
197 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2015 :  13:10:51  Show Profile  Visit Gustaveren's Homepage Send Gustaveren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
WOTC would actually also have to deliver solid description of abeir during the spellplague years since you can not play with returned countries in the 5e timeframe without knowing what happened in abeir during the 4e time period. It would after all be common knowledge among the populations of the returned countries.
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Venger
Learned Scribe

USA
266 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2015 :  20:37:22  Show Profile Send Venger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've already walked away. I would, however, be glad if WotC gave me a reason to come back.

"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power."
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe

Denmark
197 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2015 :  21:57:51  Show Profile  Visit Gustaveren's Homepage Send Gustaveren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do not believe that WOTC would meet my minimum requirements for coming back, but that is okey, business is after all business, I am just voting with my vallet and instead purchasing paizo products and I am still having more FR products from 1e,2e,3e and 3.5e to last several lifetimes
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hobbitfan
Learned Scribe

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2015 :  03:46:02  Show Profile Send hobbitfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Being honest about things, I think WOTC wrote off the Realms fans.
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MaskedOne
Seeker

42 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2015 :  07:00:15  Show Profile Send MaskedOne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
walk away? I've pretty much ignored anything FR related printed since 2008 that doesn't have Ed's name on it. If WotC doesn't impress me then I will maintain status quo. With that said, I love the 5E PHB and recent events in Ed's novels have caught my attention. Barring extreme and excessive stupidity, I expect that I'll be buying more FR products in the next few years. If the new FR material pleases me half as much as the 5E PHB does, then I'll be walking back toward current FR products very quickly. I won't be picking up much from the edition I skipped, WotC still doesn't need any more money regarding that series of decisions but concerning 5E. It's their money to lose because I'm better disposed toward them currently than I have been in years.
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Rikudou
Acolyte

12 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2015 :  19:42:51  Show Profile Send Rikudou a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still have faith that WotC will deliver us from the purgatory of 4e and lead us to 5e paradise (I hope)
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1946 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2015 :  21:41:54  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I skimmed through the 5e books at the local B&N the other day, and while pretty, to me, not worth the cover price.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1369 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2015 :  01:21:01  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire

I skimmed through the 5e books at the local B&N the other day, and while pretty, to me, not worth the cover price.



Order from Amazon. I used a discount code they were running at the time (now expired, but I'm sure more will eventually come) and snagged the DMG for around 28 dollars. That includes shipping.

Edited by - Eilserus on 08 Jan 2015 01:29:01
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1112 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2015 :  01:26:17  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was more accepting of 4e than most people on here but I really like the 5th edition core books. Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat are an entirely different matter.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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Mapolq
Senior Scribe

Brazil
465 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2015 :  20:59:38  Show Profile Send Mapolq a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll buy their stuff if it looks like it it's good value for money. I was never a completionist, so there's no hard question here for me. I don't need to buy all of WotC's Realms products in order to buy some of it. That said, the last thing they published that interested me (and which I bought) was Elminster's FR.

Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.

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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1946 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2015 :  21:19:12  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lies, lies, lies. Propaganda, nothing more. If I don't see some of the work that Ed has supposedly been so busy on, and soon, I'll toss all my books in the bonfire and focus on Golarion which is a living, breathing setting, not a dry dessicated corpse with nothing to show but its past glories.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1946 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2015 :  21:23:19  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire

I skimmed through the 5e books at the local B&N the other day, and while pretty, to me, not worth the cover price.



Order from Amazon. I used a discount code they were running at the time (now expired, but I'm sure more will eventually come) and snagged the DMG for around 28 dollars. That includes shipping.



From what I saw, it isn't worth $15. So much recycled stuff I already have. Why should I shell out for that? Some fancy new art? Don't be a sucker. Crap wrapped in gold is still crap.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe

264 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2015 :  08:13:59  Show Profile  Visit Darkheyr's Homepage  Send Darkheyr an ICQ Message  Click to see Darkheyr's MSN Messenger address Send Darkheyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pretty much already walked away.

I bought Elminster's FR, and would certainly buy similar books, but the entire 4E+ timeline doesn't interest me enough to spend money on. I rarely play P&P these days, so we all prefer something more familiar, and my NWN project started 10 years ago in a fictious 1378 DR - thus, we are not conforming to 4E timeline anyway. Not that we could, in retrospect.

So, era-independant realms stuff? Yes please. 4E, 5E? Nah.

And for rules I'm sticking to Pathfinder.

silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3645 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2015 :  08:57:57  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It seems to me like a lot of people went elsewhere with 4e. Is it just that the 4e fans are not responding here or are the figures on this thread representative of the numbers of people who liked 4e (almost none it would seem). If the latter is true one wonders why they stuck with the 4e timeline and changes.

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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe

264 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2015 :  09:48:41  Show Profile  Visit Darkheyr's Homepage  Send Darkheyr an ICQ Message  Click to see Darkheyr's MSN Messenger address Send Darkheyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't actually believe all that many openly dislike the 4E+ setting. From what I've seen of it, it could be quite nice.

But how they went about it alienated a lot of people. They took an established setting, turned it upside down and into something that might not be that bad, but still severely different from what we know. Add the way they communicated about it, and you just get a lot of pissed off established fans, no matter how cool and shiny that new thing is.And, of course, the timejump. Not exactly a tiny one either.

To me, buying a 4E book would feel like browsing through Eberron or Golarion material, not getting new Realmslore. And actually, I'd probably buy Golarion first just because I like Paizo more than Wizards these days, and I might get some useful ruleswork out of it, too.

silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30617 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2015 :  12:58:58  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

It seems to me like a lot of people went elsewhere with 4e. Is it just that the 4e fans are not responding here or are the figures on this thread representative of the numbers of people who liked 4e (almost none it would seem). If the latter is true one wonders why they stuck with the 4e timeline and changes.



We've got folks here who are fans of the 4E Realms... But I know of people who stopped coming here after the 4E campaign book came out.

Obviously, I didn't leave here, but the gaming money I used to give WotC instead went to Paizo and other companies. Until the Elminster's Realms book came out, I'd only given WotC maybe $20 during the entire run of 4E material.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14843 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2015 :  13:07:35  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I didn't hate the 4e setting - I just hated the fact it landed on top of (and squashed) my favorite setting.

And when I read this thread title now, I keep thinking, "will they deliver in 20 minutes or less? if they don't, can we get it for Free?"

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30617 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2015 :  16:19:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I didn't hate the 4e setting - I just hated the fact it landed on top of (and squashed) my favorite setting.




Agreed. I've said more than once that had the 4E Realms been introduced as a new setting, under a different name, then it likely would have been much more well received. As I noted in my long-ago sandwich analogy, the problem wasn't the ingredients of the sandwich, the problem was that I was expecting one kind of sandwich and was given another.

This is also part of why I advocated for splitting the 4E Realms off into its own independent setting.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe

Denmark
197 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2015 :  18:27:08  Show Profile  Visit Gustaveren's Homepage Send Gustaveren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MaskedOne

walk away? I've pretty much ignored anything FR related printed since 2008 that doesn't have Ed's name on it. If WotC doesn't impress me then I will maintain status quo. With that said, I love the 5E PHB and recent events in Ed's novels have caught my attention. Barring extreme and excessive stupidity, I expect that I'll be buying more FR products in the next few years. If the new FR material pleases me half as much as the 5E PHB does, then I'll be walking back toward current FR products very quickly. I won't be picking up much from the edition I skipped, WotC still doesn't need any more money regarding that series of decisions but concerning 5E. It's their money to lose because I'm better disposed toward them currently than I have been in years.



Well, that is only possible if WOTC actually decides to publish some FR material. Their release schedule looks very thin when it is compared to Paizo's release schedule
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MaskedOne
Seeker

42 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2015 :  01:15:21  Show Profile Send MaskedOne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Failure to provide FR material will prevent me from spending money on FR material, true enough, but it's unlikely to single-handedly lose more of my good will. It just won't net them anything from the amount of good will they've regained.
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2015 :  16:05:44  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So far I am undecided but its leaning towards walking away. Those of my friends who were interested in the realms and even my own brother have already given up on it but I have decided to stick around for a little while longer.
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