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 Will you walk away if Wizards doesn't deliver?
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1950 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2014 :  21:44:26  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For an accurate cross-section, I'll add my vote. Haven't purchased anything since 4E FRCG (and would have returned it if I could). Guess that means I've already walked.


Edit: Oh, Godborn and EoJ

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Edited by - Fellfire on 23 Dec 2014 21:47:09
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe

USA
830 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2014 :  22:24:38  Show Profile Send Dark Wizard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Walk away is not the best term. It's a crude blanket term that locks one into a set pattern without input from future changes.

I think all of us have at some point or another been selective in our support of the published Realms. The break away point and returning point varies for everyone. Sometimes it's a single project, sometimes an entire edition.

Speaking for myself, in previous editions (3E) I've skipped single projects, I've tried to back-fill the 1E/2E catalog as time and funds permit (that's balanced between FR, Planescape, and more recently Spelljammer, Al-Qadim, and some 2E core supplements).

For 4E it was the entire line. It was not until after the release period did I pick up the FRCG, for completeness sake and to keep apprised of the new baseline for the setting. Reading the book in detailed did not improve upon the impression gained from perusal in the store years before, that was unfortunate.

For 5E I have the PHB, the two printed Sundering adventures, Dragonspear Castle GenCon exclusive, and the two hardback Tyranny adventures. This was mostly due to there being actual Realms stuff being published and to check out the new direction.

Honestly, without a new FRCG/FRCS there's not much to actually "walk away" from. It's still a wait and see period, and I think that's perhaps best. FR came out of the gate right at the heels of the Core set for both 3E and 4E and suffered for it each time. Each time we saw a more polished and better thought-out example in Eberron. Might be best to let Wizards get some practice with the new rules and project line before they dive into any major Realms offering.
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe

194 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2014 :  22:43:05  Show Profile Send Thrasymachus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard

... Dragonspear Castle GenCon exclusive, ...


And now exclusively available at the dndclassics(dot)com

I run a support group on Thursday nights for others who got ravaged on Ebay to get their "exclusive" copies.


Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon".
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe

USA
830 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2014 :  22:51:51  Show Profile Send Dark Wizard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's why it was best to order direct and ask someone you know pick it up at GenCon even if you didn't attend yourself. Even then, when Ebay was flooded with the books, the prices weren't so bad as I've read several early reviews from people who snagged a copy on Ebay for not much more than base price (and that was including shipping).
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe

194 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2014 :  23:40:19  Show Profile Send Thrasymachus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard

That's why it was best to order direct and ask someone you know pick it up at GenCon even if you didn't attend yourself.


All the people i know have jobs.


Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon".
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31234 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2014 :  23:50:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus

quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard

That's why it was best to order direct and ask someone you know pick it up at GenCon even if you didn't attend yourself.


All the people i know have jobs.



Ditto, but I still knew people that went -- like the owner of the local game store.

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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe

USA
830 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2014 :  21:59:32  Show Profile Send Dark Wizard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus

quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard

That's why it was best to order direct and ask someone you know pick it up at GenCon even if you didn't attend yourself.


All the people i know have jobs.



I'm sure you didn't mean it in that way, but the people I know who went are meaningfully employed. One does not go to a convention without a fair bit of disposable funds, even if only counting admission and modest room/board/transportation budget.
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe

USA
323 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2014 :  23:39:00  Show Profile Send Drustan Dwnhaedan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm... undecided as to whether I'll walk away or not. To be perfectly honest, I've walked away on a few occasions already, but I keep coming back (gods only know why).
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2014 :  14:37:45  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I love the Realms and won't be leaving any time soon. I might not stay current with WotC, might not even buy their products, but I'll never leave the Realms.
George said it better than I could. Though I am still hoping that they will pull me in with an awesome 5e era hardcover. Or, even better, a Grand History of the Realms, Volume II that focuses on the "good" parts of the 4e Realms and marginalizes the "bad" parts while bringing the timeline up to current.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31234 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2014 :  15:18:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins

Or, even better, a Grand History of the Realms, Volume II that focuses on the "good" parts of the 4e Realms and marginalizes the "bad" parts while bringing the timeline up to current.



That would be a tall order... I'm not sure that there is much of a consensus on the good parts of any particular era.

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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
697 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2014 :  15:21:00  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If they came out with a CG that was like a massive tome, I would pay for it no matter what the cost was.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31234 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2014 :  16:02:11  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

If they came out with a CG that was like a massive tome, I would pay for it no matter what the cost was.



I can't say the same... I've bought a couple of the really big ones, like the Tome of Horrors or Ptolus, the City by the Spire. And even for Realmslore, $100 or more for a single book is a lot.

Now, if there was a huge $100 Realms book like that, I'd certainly be interested... But I'd wait for some reviews, and spend some time flipping thru it before buying it. It would have to be really impressive, and sound like a return to the Realms I liked, to cause me to spend that much. Otherwise, I'd do what I did with the 4E material -- wait, and get it on the cheap from eBay.

I don't think a $100 price point is a good idea, anyway... That's a significant chunk of money for a lot of us, and it'd be really difficult for younger gamers to buy.

On top of that, a book weighty enough to command such a price is going to be massive -- and not everyone is going to be eager to have their introduction to a setting come from an encyclopedia-sized book.

Though I do have issues with the way the transition from the 2E to the 3E Realms was handwaved handled, I think the 3E FRCS does hit that sweet spot for a setting book. Good page count; lots of lore covering a broad swath of lands, people, religion, and magic; good illustrations; and a reasonable price for all of it.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 27 Dec 2014 16:03:18
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe

USA
304 Posts

Posted - 28 Dec 2014 :  18:47:07  Show Profile Send Tarlyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I walked away for the duration of 4e and would walk away again if WotC provides a substandard product. I am currently hoping that WotC is able to learn from the mistakes of 4e FR the same way that they learned from the mistakes of 4e during their 5e core development.

Tarlyn Embersun
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Kyrel
Learned Scribe

150 Posts

Posted - 28 Dec 2014 :  23:52:50  Show Profile  Visit Kyrel's Homepage Send Kyrel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If I don't like what Wizards are producing, then I won't be buying it. Simple as that. In that case I'll keep using what I have and can make up myself, up until such a point where I no longer find myself interested in using it further.

Will I walk away if Wizards for some reason should decide to retcon the events of 4th ed. out of existence? No.
Will I walk away if Wizards try and restore the Realms to its state pre-Spellplague? That very much depends on how they go about it. If the world goes through a "natural" evolution, than probably no. But if things become too contrived and silly (IMO) then it's not impossible.
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1083 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2015 :  10:19:26  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Our group for numerous reasons have stopped at 3.x. So although I have a interest in having the realms evolving, Im not sure I like it or the new rules...

So the last canon realms event we have incorporated was from 1374... there on out. So we have basically not any interest unless they start re-printing 3.x books or even AD&D...

We still play and enjoy the game, but have not bought into 4th and will not be buying into 5th...


Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 02 Jan 2015 10:22:17
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3979 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2015 :  12:19:40  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Stay strong Nicolai, resist the urge to buy. (unless of course it is a sourcebook written by one of the loremasters like Eric Boyd and George Krashos for instance).

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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe

Denmark
197 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2015 :  17:21:29  Show Profile  Visit Gustaveren's Homepage Send Gustaveren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, i picked "have already moved away" since:

1) I have been buying Golarion products as crazy for the last year. I am probably having more Golarion roleplaying products compared to FR products despite owning practical all 1e,2e,3e and 3.5e FR products
2) I am not having any intention of buying anything related to 4e and 5E. Not even when it is sold with a huge discount. Not even post spell plague novels trying to save the setting and from my old most favourite FR authors have been able to generate any kind of interest.
Despite that:
a) I recently brought the enhanced versions on steam of baldur's gate 1 and 2 and Icewind dale 1 despite already owning those games
b) I brought Ed Greenwoods book on the FR campaign he has been running
c) I did buy some old 1e FR products (modules) i was missing when i noticed them in a shop selling used FR products.

Next time i run a campaign will it most likely be in Golarion.

I did check if they had started to sell the 1e, 2e, 3e and 3.5e FR products as E-books via Itunes since i would be tempted to crazy shop for them even though i already owns them on paper but it might be nice to have them as E-books while on vacation (living in northern europe but have a certain amount of asia trips due to having a chinese wife) or when on business trips to other countries. Happens once in a while due to working with Quality Engineering when establishing, production maturing and improving medical device manufacturing.

The reason i say Itunes;
For safety reasons will i not use visa card online but certain platforms (steam & itunes) sell e-wallet cards in the shops there can then be redeemed.

Edited by - Gustaveren on 02 Jan 2015 17:47:12
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1083 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2015 :  20:33:06  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Stay strong Nicolai, resist the urge to buy. (unless of course it is a sourcebook written by one of the loremasters like Eric Boyd and George Krashos for instance).



Indeed...

I have no problem not buying material we wont be using. We have not had the spellplague happen in our game, and we like 3.x dispeite it's flaws, which we have spent 15 years fixing/bypassing. Yeah so... I follow most of all because I have a deep respect for Ed and his imaginations and creations, and because I find the world deep with history. Thats also why I enjoy everything that happens in Tolkien's Middle Earth.

But as you say, if for some reason anything pre-spellplague would be re-released, I would be very interested!
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe

Denmark
197 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2015 :  21:46:58  Show Profile  Visit Gustaveren's Homepage Send Gustaveren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

Our group for numerous reasons have stopped at 3.x. So although I have a interest in having the realms evolving, Im not sure I like it or the new rules...

So the last canon realms event we have incorporated was from 1374... there on out. So we have basically not any interest unless they start re-printing 3.x books or even AD&D...

We still play and enjoy the game, but have not bought into 4th and will not be buying into 5th...





If I was to make a FR campaign in the future would i most likely also place it in 1373 or 1374 and simply disregard anything there happened after that in Canon. It basically means, that I would be willing to buy lore FR products taking place in the 1e, 2e, 3e and 3.5e setting periods since it would either add valuable historical lore (I like high complexity high lore settings) or valuable current material but I would not be willing to spend any euro's on 4e and 5e FR lore.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31234 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2015 :  21:55:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really would prefer to see people picking up a book when it comes out and perusing it, then deciding whether or not to buy. I don't think that pre-judging things does anyone any good, especially when the product is not even out yet. How can anyone know if something is worthwhile to them, or not, when they've not looked at it? How can anyone know the value of something that doesn't even exist?

Heck, when Ed is excited and when we've been told that WotC wants to try to get back to the Realms we liked, why are people so eager to dismiss this? I am reminded of what lead to the Spellplague and the timejump -- trying to cater to people who were determined not to like the end result, even if it was exactly what they wanted.

And I really don't like seeing people encouraging others not to buy anything, either. You might as well be rooting for the failure of the setting, and its discontinuation.

I'm not saying we all have to run out and buy anything WotC puts out... Just give it a fair chance, and let others to the same.

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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe

Denmark
197 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2015 :  22:23:51  Show Profile  Visit Gustaveren's Homepage Send Gustaveren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I really would prefer to see people picking up a book when it comes out and perusing it, then deciding whether or not to buy. I don't think that pre-judging things does anyone any good, especially when the product is not even out yet. How can anyone know if something is worthwhile to them, or not, when they've not looked at it? How can anyone know the value of something that doesn't even exist?

Heck, when Ed is excited and when we've been told that WotC wants to try to get back to the Realms we liked, why are people so eager to dismiss this? I am reminded of what lead to the Spellplague and the timejump -- trying to cater to people who were determined not to like the end result, even if it was exactly what they wanted.

And I really don't like seeing people encouraging others not to buy anything, either. You might as well be rooting for the failure of the setting, and its discontinuation.

I'm not saying we all have to run out and buy anything WotC puts out... Just give it a fair chance, and let others to the same.



Well, i did not start to buy Golarion products before there was a huge amount of Golarion products on the market since i love high complexity high lore settings and that requires a huge amount of products. It is possible I would be tempted to look at 5E products (as reading material when traveling to work (using public transportation)) when they fullfill the following:

1) A detailed campaign setting book in the 5e time range
2) A history book (maybe 200 pages, same font size as used in 2e) clearly defining what happened during the timejump from 3e to 5e. Format like Grand History of the realms. It has to list major events of all the years, include maps of major map changes, list the chronologies of all major royal families etc etc
3) At least 5 regions defined via Volo Guides
4) A return of the realms to a more positive atmosphere.
5) A book defining some technological progress but still keeping the spirit of a medieval world.
Example; better food conservation methods and slightly better ships opening up some more long distance trade routes,...
I would like such a book to define the economy of the setting. (trade resources, areas rich in certain resources,...)

It would probably take something more than that but the stuff above is a mandatory baseline there could then be expanded with some additional books (whatever type) until they had reached sufficient lore and complexity to make it interesting to invest money in the updated setting.

It is of course mandatory, that it is setting books not containing rule pages since I intend to use pathfinder rules for decades to come and i do not want to spend money buying pages with rules for other systems

Edited by - Gustaveren on 02 Jan 2015 22:32:00
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe

Denmark
197 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2015 :  22:35:04  Show Profile  Visit Gustaveren's Homepage Send Gustaveren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

Our group for numerous reasons have stopped at 3.x. So although I have a interest in having the realms evolving, Im not sure I like it or the new rules...

So the last canon realms event we have incorporated was from 1374... there on out. So we have basically not any interest unless they start re-printing 3.x books or even AD&D...

We still play and enjoy the game, but have not bought into 4th and will not be buying into 5th...





Hey, i just noticed you are also from Denmark. What city?
I am personally living in Ringsted.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31234 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2015 :  22:35:48  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, in other words, you won't even look at the 5E Realms until you've got a few years worth of products to look at?

Considering your list of demands, when compared to the output of both 3E and 4E, you're never going to look at another Realms product. They could create the best damn campaign book ever, something that leaves Ed, Krash, and Eric Boyd squealing in delight, and it's not going to be enough for you, because it's not this laundry list of products.

I simply do not understand not being willing to give something a fair chance, based on its own merits.

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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe

Denmark
197 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2015 :  22:50:13  Show Profile  Visit Gustaveren's Homepage Send Gustaveren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, for instance, I did not really start buying Golarion and pathfinder products before early 2013 and I am now having 1,5m book shelve filled up with Pathfinder rulebooks and setting sourcebooks. It will take me years to read through it since there are a lot other important competitors for my time, for instance, my son was born summer 2014, my career is moving rapidly forward (lots of work), my steam collection of strategy and rpg games has reached ridiculous levels and i have max played 10% of them and so forth.
That is, it would have to look really good before i would invest time in it and i want to be sure it is good before i allow it to take up space on the book shelves.
I am for instance having ridiculous amounts of RPG products, books etc and my wife is also collecting books (but other types). I have probably installed something like 60m bookshelves in our apartment in order to have space for current collections and expected future book buying.
Expecting I later this month will have to spend a 1000 euro buying glass doors for the book shelves (a wish from my wife in order to keep down dust collection). That is, I am not prepared to spend time, money or book shelves on products before I am convinced they are worth adding to the collection and I doubt I will be convinced before there is sufficient products to make the new time area sufficient high lore high complexity.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31234 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2015 :  23:14:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But how do you become convinced if you're not even willing to check it out?

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