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 Drizzt's place in the Realms
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Austin the Archmage
Seeker

USA
57 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2014 :  17:05:02  Show Profile Send Austin the Archmage a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I know some people resent how much marketing Drizzt gets. But people also point out that unlike a lot of the other iconic characters, Drizzt is still a pretty local hero. He doesn't usually play a role in realms shaking events, and WotC seems content to let him stay in his little corner of the Realms.

But isn't that kind of odd?

What I've read here about how TSR and WotC manage the Forgotten Realms remind me a lot about how comic book companies operate. Writers are forced to write about certain characters at the expense of other characters, and RSE sound a lot like Crisis Crossovers, with many of the same problems. Drizzt sounds like the Wolverine of the FR. Casual fans love him, while hardcore fans are often sick of him. But unlike Wolverine, WotC doesn't spread him out across the stories. I've never heard of a writer being forced to have Drizzt make a cameo in his stories, and Drizzt is almost never inserted in the really far reaching storylines. Given how popular he is, I'm surprised WotC hasn't taken that approach with him.

What do you all think? Do you find it strange that WotC hasn't tried to make Drizzt a bigger player in-universe, or do you think there might be practical reasons for not doing so?

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2014 :  17:49:04  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing WotC has done, for the most part, is keep signature characters with their authors. So only Elaine writes about Arilyn Moonblade, only Ed writes about Elminster, only Paul S Kemp writes about Erevis Cale, etc.

Keeping one author for the major characters like that keeps one voice for them, and helps prevent issues with continuity and characterization.

Aside from that, cross-overs are more of a comic trope. Things that work well in one media don't always work as well in another.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 18 Dec 2014 17:51:06
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore

USA
1714 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2014 :  18:11:11  Show Profile  Visit BEAST's Homepage Send BEAST a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Austin the Archmage

He doesn't usually play a role in realms shaking events, and WotC seems content to let him stay in his little corner of the Realms.

But isn't that kind of odd?

Somewhat, if we were to look at WOTC as the sort of megalomaniacal company that asserted the right to shamefully exploit all of its assets to the absolute fullest. (Some would be tempted to think that WOTC is exactly that, with respect to Drizzt.)

But Drizzt and RAS have a special relationship with the company, sealed in the blood of the previous publisher of D&D/FR stories: TSR...

quote:
But unlike Wolverine, WotC doesn't spread him out across the stories. I've never heard of a writer being forced to have Drizzt make a cameo in his stories, and Drizzt is almost never inserted in the really far reaching storylines. Given how popular he is, I'm surprised WotC hasn't taken that approach with him.

What do you all think? Do you find it strange that WotC hasn't tried to make Drizzt a bigger player in-universe, or do you think there might be practical reasons for not doing so?

The original publisher, TSR, supposedly became completely mismanaged in the early to mid-'90s, and it began losing money, big time. TPTB got desperate, and they pressured their creative team to bail them out.

Specifically, although they had originally told a young Bob Salvatore that six Drizzt books were enough and that he could branch out into other new Realms characters and locales, they reversed course and called on Bob to churn out more and more Drizzt books and short stories at a faster and faster pace. Now, RAS owed a helluva lot to TSR and Drizzt for giving him the opportunity to break into writing, but he had other ideas for characters and stories beyond just an angsty drow ranger. And so, he contacted other publishers and began writing completely unrelated fantasy stories, and according to rumor, even nonfiction works. I don't think it could ever be said that Bob approached Ed's level of prolificity, but in the early '90s, RAS was still quite the writing whirlwind, on his own. But at some point, something had to give.

Bob pushed back on TSR for some kind of reprieve with the writing schedule. But they refused. The company then threatened to bring in other writers to keep up the schedule, if Bob would not. In fact, TSR even contracted another up and coming author, Marc Anthony, to write a short story ("The Fires of Narbondel") featuring many of Bob's characters, including Drizzt, and published it in the anthology Realms of the Underdark, just to prove that their threat was no bluff. Another quasi-anthology, Once Around the Realms, by editor Brian Thomsen, drove home the point.

Of course, Salvatore was furious. Just because they could do this, didn't mean they should.

So he decided to finish up his existing contract, write the Companions of the Hall characters back into their starting home base of Icewind Dale, and wrap everything up, neat and tidy, with a little bow, in the novel Passage to Dawn.

And then he left TSR.

The company wasn't done with Drizzt, though.

While he was gone, the games department of TSR continued to use Bob's characters in other lorebooks dealing with the Silver Marches--almost as if Bob had never sent them back to Icewind Dale at all.

TSR imploded shortly after Bob's departure.

A few years later, the new publisher, WOTC, talked Bob into returning to the fold, with an undisclosed list of perks.

But some of them, at least, would appear to be that:
*Nobody but Bob friggin' A. Salvatore gets to do Drizzt Do'Urden, by golly!

*He gets to write at a mutually agreed upon pace.

*The editors now appear to bear most of the responsibility for ensuring that his stories fit with the rest of Realmslore.

*And Drizzt gets to be the front man of the band for marketing purposes, whenever WOTC so chooses.

Look, Bob's stories supposedly outsell the rest of Realms literature, so he commands a certain degree of respect and deference from the publisher. WOTC knows it's best not to poke the bear by sharing his baby, Drizzt, with other writers.

And so, Drizzt Do'Urden remains a tightly managed commodity. The exact terms of his deal with the agency representing him and the rest of the band are hush-hush, but the fact that you don't see him popping up everwhere is no accident.

It's part of the legacy of TSR.

"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)

<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works">
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1842 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2014 :  19:49:54  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And...

He shouldn't pop up everywhere. How many people do you think actually travel the world (even if they can) to 'save the day'? It makes far more sense to me that a hero would settle in a region and help the people/city/country they've come to care about. Why would Drizzt travel to, say, Rasheman to help out the Witches? Or to the Bloodstone Lands to help out the monarchy there? Etc.

Where he lives people know him. They've come to accept him. He has contacts and a strong base of operations in Mithril Hall. And he has his returned-to-life Companions. It's more realistic for him to stay where he is, barring the occasional trip for special reasons, than to flit about the Realms do this and that. Besides, that's what Elminster does.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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Austin the Archmage
Seeker

USA
57 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2014 :  21:41:01  Show Profile Send Austin the Archmage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

And...

He shouldn't pop up everywhere. How many people do you think actually travel the world (even if they can) to 'save the day'? It makes far more sense to me that a hero would settle in a region and help the people/city/country they've come to care about. Why would Drizzt travel to, say, Rasheman to help out the Witches? Or to the Bloodstone Lands to help out the monarchy there? Etc.


All true. But what makes sense doesn't always factor when it comes to how popular characters are used, which is why I thought it was a question worth asking.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4425 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2014 :  09:16:36  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think it comes down to the story. If anyone has read Drizzt, he does travel quite a bit, from the Spine of the World to the High Forest and the Silver Marches, to the Sword Coast (Neverwinter, Baldur's Gate, and Waterdeep), all throughout the Western Heartlands, into Calimshan, and up through Erlkazar. So he does go far from his roosting spot of Mithral Hall. I think, however, that his adventures tend to be more limited in scope. He's not taking on world shaking events, but perhaps regional events that shape only part of Faerūn.

I guess he doesn't travel outside of the Western Coast is because he really has no reason to. If there was a reason to pull him from his hunting grounds to the Bloodstone Lands or Thay or Chult, I suppose he would go but the reason would have to be pretty significant.

Now whether or not he should is another matter. While I appreciate the idea of Drizzt remaining pretty local to specific areas, I wouldn't mind seeing him come into contact with other characters in other areas of the Realms. To see Drizzt enter Shadowdale would be pretty entertaining, to be sure. Same as if he were to encounter some of the Hathran Wychlaran. But I'm pretty certain that it won't happen.
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore

USA
1714 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2014 :  23:24:14  Show Profile  Visit BEAST's Homepage Send BEAST a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

While I appreciate the idea of Drizzt remaining pretty local to specific areas, I wouldn't mind seeing him come into contact with other characters in other areas of the Realms. To see Drizzt enter Shadowdale would be pretty entertaining, to be sure.

Can you imagine Drizzt meeting Elminster and the old mage getting the drow drunk?

I sense a short story coming on...

"Lad, you're far too tightly wound, and that simply will not do." Of course, Drizzt is initially a classic sad drunk--that is, until they start comparing battle scars; now, that brings him out of his shell! Sensing that he's got Drizzt primed and right where he wants him, El calls out, "Bring in the dancing girls!" Drizzt gets uncomfortable again, because, you know, he's all in a committed relationship and everything. Catti-brie catches wind of his discomfort and jumps up on the bar right along with the other ladies to show them how it's done. "Oh, Drizzt...I've got this new trick with a bowstring I wanted to show you..." And then Drizzt's coinpurse is immediately emptied of all its silvers and golds! The Sage of Shadowdale leans back in his chair, strokes his beard, and takes a long draw on his pipe. "Ah, I see that my work here is done."

"Elminster: Corrupter Extraordinaire."

Let's call the anthology Realms of the Uptight, Undone.

"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)

<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works">
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Austin the Archmage
Seeker

USA
57 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2014 :  03:08:25  Show Profile Send Austin the Archmage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

While I appreciate the idea of Drizzt remaining pretty local to specific areas, I wouldn't mind seeing him come into contact with other characters in other areas of the Realms. To see Drizzt enter Shadowdale would be pretty entertaining, to be sure.

Can you imagine Drizzt meeting Elminster and the old mage getting the drow drunk?

I sense a short story coming on...

"Lad, you're far too tightly wound, and that simply will not do." Of course, Drizzt is initially a classic sad drunk--that is, until they start comparing battle scars; now, that brings him out of his shell! Sensing that he's got Drizzt primed and right where he wants him, El calls out, "Bring in the dancing girls!" Drizzt gets uncomfortable again, because, you know, he's all in a committed relationship and everything. Catti-brie catches wind of his discomfort and jumps up on the bar right along with the other ladies to show them how it's done. "Oh, Drizzt...I've got this new trick with a bowstring I wanted to show you..." And then Drizzt's coinpurse is immediately emptied of all its silvers and golds! The Sage of Shadowdale leans back in his chair, strokes his beard, and takes a long draw on his pipe. "Ah, I see that my work here is done."

"Elminster: Corrupter Extraordinaire."

Let's call the anthology Realms of the Uptight, Undone.



Hanging out with Elminster sounds dangerous. And not because half of the baddies in the Realms want to kill him.
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jordanz
Senior Scribe

553 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2014 :  08:52:38  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

While I appreciate the idea of Drizzt remaining pretty local to specific areas, I wouldn't mind seeing him come into contact with other characters in other areas of the Realms. To see Drizzt enter Shadowdale would be pretty entertaining, to be sure.

Can you imagine Drizzt meeting Elminster and the old mage getting the drow drunk?

I sense a short story coming on...

"Lad, you're far too tightly wound, and that simply will not do." Of course, Drizzt is initially a classic sad drunk--that is, until they start comparing battle scars; now, that brings him out of his shell! Sensing that he's got Drizzt primed and right where he wants him, El calls out, "Bring in the dancing girls!" Drizzt gets uncomfortable again, because, you know, he's all in a committed relationship and everything. Catti-brie catches wind of his discomfort and jumps up on the bar right along with the other ladies to show them how it's done. "Oh, Drizzt...I've got this new trick with a bowstring I wanted to show you..." And then Drizzt's coinpurse is immediately emptied of all its silvers and golds! The Sage of Shadowdale leans back in his chair, strokes his beard, and takes a long draw on his pipe. "Ah, I see that my work here is done."

"Elminster: Corrupter Extraordinaire."

Let's call the anthology Realms of the Uptight, Undone.



I wouldn't mind Drizzt teaming up with Erevis Cale.
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore

USA
1714 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2014 :  12:54:47  Show Profile  Visit BEAST's Homepage Send BEAST a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Austin the Archmage

Hanging out with Elminster sounds dangerous. And not because half of the baddies in the Realms want to kill him.

Bah! It's the Realms. Ye haven't really lived, unless ye've died and come back at least once.

"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)

<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works">
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