Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Products
 D&D Core Products
 5E DMG
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4740 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2014 :  06:41:19  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Just picked this up today and boy, is it a blast from the past. All, and I mean all, the old school magic items are back. I enjoyed the flexibility of the "property-based" magic items in 3E and so have to return to grognard magic item creation thinking (i.e. just come up with something). Back to the 1990s it is.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2014 :  07:09:22  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
George, what do you think about the artwork (the section of magic items in particular)?

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
Go to Top of Page

Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3278 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2014 :  14:58:38  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Just picked this up today and boy, is it a blast from the past. All, and I mean all, the old school magic items are back. I enjoyed the flexibility of the "property-based" magic items in 3E and so have to return to grognard magic item creation thinking (i.e. just come up with something). Back to the 1990s it is.

-- George Krashos



Well looks like the edition is running as intended. Since the playtest started (and having looked through the PHB myself) I definitely get the vibe from the books that WotC intent is to lure back lapsed and/or old-school gamers to combat Paizo's 3E-based crowed. How well this will work is a matter of time, obviously, though I see a lot of people with positive review about the game. Were my group not totally enmeshed with 4E I think 5E could've really had traction with them. Oh well, perhaps in a year or two I can get a few D&D:Next sessions in once more supplements hit the shelves.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
Go to Top of Page

Delwa
Master of Realmslore

USA
1204 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2014 :  15:12:51  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really enjoyed the magic items' presentation in the DMG. I didn't like the way Moonblades were presented, but I can't put my finger on why. It just seems they should be more... special, but that's all I can come up with.
I do like that crafting magic is explicitly a lot more under the DM's purview now. I'll probably go back to my 3E stuff for ideas on creating "recipes" for magic items, but I am glad I don't have to have a house rule every time someone says, "that's not in the book."

- Delwa Aunglor of Tangled Trees
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!

"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus

My Forging the Realms Archives (Google Drive pdfs)
Go to Top of Page

Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3278 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2014 :  18:02:19  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa

I really enjoyed the magic items' presentation in the DMG. I didn't like the way Moonblades were presented, but I can't put my finger on why. It just seems they should be more... special, but that's all I can come up with.
I do like that crafting magic is explicitly a lot more under the DM's purview now. I'll probably go back to my 3E stuff for ideas on creating "recipes" for magic items, but I am glad I don't have to have a house rule every time someone says, "that's not in the book."



I have only seen the quick DMG preview they showed for magical items and I can't say I like the fact that only characters with spell slots can craft magical items. I'll probably have to remove that (IMO silly) restriction from the rules and instead base it off of recipes that requires special items, reagents, gems, and metals in addition to perhaps an Arcana, Nature, or Religion check (depending on type of magical item) to complete the creation process.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
Go to Top of Page

Delwa
Master of Realmslore

USA
1204 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2014 :  20:09:49  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

quote:
Originally posted by Delwa

I really enjoyed the magic items' presentation in the DMG. I didn't like the way Moonblades were presented, but I can't put my finger on why. It just seems they should be more... special, but that's all I can come up with.
I do like that crafting magic is explicitly a lot more under the DM's purview now. I'll probably go back to my 3E stuff for ideas on creating "recipes" for magic items, but I am glad I don't have to have a house rule every time someone says, "that's not in the book."



I have only seen the quick DMG preview they showed for magical items and I can't say I like the fact that only characters with spell slots can craft magical items. I'll probably have to remove that (IMO silly) restriction from the rules and instead base it off of recipes that requires special items, reagents, gems, and metals in addition to perhaps an Arcana, Nature, or Religion check (depending on type of magical item) to complete the creation process.


That's a detail I hadn't really picked up on. The DMG is very clear that its magic item creation system is just an option, and it does encourage the DM to use his own. I like that tone of voice about the whole book.

- Delwa Aunglor of Tangled Trees
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!

"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus

My Forging the Realms Archives (Google Drive pdfs)
Go to Top of Page

Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3278 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2014 :  21:10:38  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

quote:
Originally posted by Delwa

I really enjoyed the magic items' presentation in the DMG. I didn't like the way Moonblades were presented, but I can't put my finger on why. It just seems they should be more... special, but that's all I can come up with.
I do like that crafting magic is explicitly a lot more under the DM's purview now. I'll probably go back to my 3E stuff for ideas on creating "recipes" for magic items, but I am glad I don't have to have a house rule every time someone says, "that's not in the book."



I have only seen the quick DMG preview they showed for magical items and I can't say I like the fact that only characters with spell slots can craft magical items. I'll probably have to remove that (IMO silly) restriction from the rules and instead base it off of recipes that requires special items, reagents, gems, and metals in addition to perhaps an Arcana, Nature, or Religion check (depending on type of magical item) to complete the creation process.


That's a detail I hadn't really picked up on. The DMG is very clear that its magic item creation system is just an option, and it does encourage the DM to use his own. I like that tone of voice about the whole book.



Hm, well that's good. I think that's the overall tone of the entire edition. I've often seen the phrase "Rulings, not rules" tossed around which implies that how the DM rules on things take precedent over anything in the book says. Not really sure if that was required but from the vocal community, apparently rule-lawyers and system mastery people ran rough-shod over DM's prerogative and put DM's in a position of resorting to everything RAW to run a game.

Can't say that was ever the case at the tables I played with or ran but I do tend to play with mostly friends so it wasn't an issue. I could see this perhaps being an issue with Living games and Cons however.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
Go to Top of Page

The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1582 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2014 :  04:38:11  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So I now have the 5e DMG and I have to say I'm fairly pleased by the content. If I had to describe it in one word I would use nostalgia. It really brings me back to the old 1e/2e (especially 2e) feel of the game. I'm more hopeful than ever that the powers that be have finally 'got it' and that the Realms itself may return to some sense of equilibrium. Though I still don't like everything about the new rules, there's enough 2e and 3e material to make a nice blend in my opinion. I think returning to simpler rules is for the best and they can (and I'm sure they will) always be able to add optional rules later.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
Go to Top of Page

Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2014 :  05:41:17  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

So I now have the 5e DMG and I have to say I'm fairly pleased by the content. If I had to describe it in one word I would use nostalgia. It really brings me back to the old 1e/2e (especially 2e) feel of the game.
George isn't showing me any love, so I hope you'll answer my question from above: how's the artwork?

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
Go to Top of Page

xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1723 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2014 :  06:37:04  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If the question is open to everyone, I dig it. I'll be using the illustration of the ghostly lady on page 48 in place of the underwhelming ghost on pg 147 of the MM. I really want to go to the Beastlands (pg 60). Even the cartoony modrons (66) are good for a chuckle and an idea for a minion-esque modron adventuring party. It's not all awesome... I'm not wowed by the ice climb on pg 84. But much of the art is pretty great, and it seems like I don't feel that way very often.

More specifically the magic item illustrations... awesome idea, and mostly well done in my opinion. I'm liking the Nolzur's pigments and the alchemy jug, and the arrow of slaying and the broom of flying, and the cloak of elvenkind and the cubic gate, and ... it's nice to like so many of them. I think the folding boat illustration is genius; pictures can take the place of at least a couple hundred words. Color was a great decision; these are much better item illustrations than the b/w ones from previous DMGs.

Edited by - xaeyruudh on 30 Dec 2014 06:37:57
Go to Top of Page

The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1582 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2014 :  13:54:50  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I pretty much second what xaeyruudh said about the artwork. Most of it is pretty good and the magic item illustrations are really good. There are some 'meh' pieces but these are the minority. All-in-all I would give the art 4 out of 5 stars as well as the content.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4740 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2014 :  00:38:10  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry Jeremy, missed your question. Problem is, I bought it for the articles, not the pictures!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

froglegg
Learned Scribe

307 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2016 :  21:56:10  Show Profile Send froglegg a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Just picked this up today and boy, is it a blast from the past. All, and I mean all, the old school magic items are back. I enjoyed the flexibility of the "property-based" magic items in 3E and so have to return to grognard magic item creation thinking (i.e. just come up with something). Back to the 1990s it is.

-- George Krashos


AMEN!




John

Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!

On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale

The Old Grey Box gets better with age!
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5117 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2016 :  22:55:12  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Just picked this up today and boy, is it a blast from the past. All, and I mean all, the old school magic items are back. I enjoyed the flexibility of the "property-based" magic items in 3E and so have to return to grognard magic item creation thinking (i.e. just come up with something). Back to the 1990s it is.

-- George Krashos



You just so mirrored my own thoughts on magic item creation in 5e. I loved the concepts that were being written up in VGtatM, but they didn't play mechanically as well as the ones in 3.5e, which made it relatively easy to tell a player what they needed (still, I would have loved some kind of mechanical rules for providing monster components to reduce cash cost... but that's what being a DM is about too).

That being said, I really feel that 3.5 needed broader ranges for its feats (after all, why can't a person that can make wands also make staves and rods..... if I can make magical metal/leather armor and weapons, why can't I make gauntlets, leather gloves, helmets, boots, and belts...... if I can make rings, why can't I make necklaces, bracelets/bracers, earrings, crowns/circlets, and what the hell throw in delicate cloth working like cloaks/robes/shirts/pants, etc... then make something for general magic items like scribing scrolls, making potions, and everything else). That would have made it 4 feats for magic item creation, and if you wanted to get more intricate in your creation, then maybe some other feats focused on enhancing your skill with magic item creation (reducing the cost, being able to make more powerful items, etc...) that might open up other options... for instance, an enhanced version of the one for arms and armor might open up constructs, as well as allowing for the combination of more than 3 bonuses on a weapon or armor... an enhanced version of the one for jewelry might give the equivalent of the attune gem feat.

Of course, the other option would be to have the same number of item creation feats as in 3.5e, but give them away freely as character level options more often (specifically an item creation feat, not an item creation feat or a metamagic feat.... and maybe further defining it to the less useful ones like craft wand, brew potion, craft rod, etc...). Specifically thinking like 3rd level wizard get brew potion, 7th lvl craft wand. Same with sorcerers and clerics. Druids might get something different than craft wand or nothing at all. Bards get more bardicly oriented stuff and not magic item creation.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

froglegg
Learned Scribe

307 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2016 :  21:50:25  Show Profile Send froglegg a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Just picked this up today and boy, is it a blast from the past. All, and I mean all, the old school magic items are back. I enjoyed the flexibility of the "property-based" magic items in 3E and so have to return to grognard magic item creation thinking (i.e. just come up with something). Back to the 1990s it is.

-- George Krashos



You just so mirrored my own thoughts on magic item creation in 5e. I loved the concepts that were being written up in VGtatM, but they didn't play mechanically as well as the ones in 3.5e, which made it relatively easy to tell a player what they needed (still, I would have loved some kind of mechanical rules for providing monster components to reduce cash cost... but that's what being a DM is about too).

That being said, I really feel that 3.5 needed broader ranges for its feats (after all, why can't a person that can make wands also make staves and rods..... if I can make magical metal/leather armor and weapons, why can't I make gauntlets, leather gloves, helmets, boots, and belts...... if I can make rings, why can't I make necklaces, bracelets/bracers, earrings, crowns/circlets, and what the hell throw in delicate cloth working like cloaks/robes/shirts/pants, etc... then make something for general magic items like scribing scrolls, making potions, and everything else). That would have made it 4 feats for magic item creation, and if you wanted to get more intricate in your creation, then maybe some other feats focused on enhancing your skill with magic item creation (reducing the cost, being able to make more powerful items, etc...) that might open up other options... for instance, an enhanced version of the one for arms and armor might open up constructs, as well as allowing for the combination of more than 3 bonuses on a weapon or armor... an enhanced version of the one for jewelry might give the equivalent of the attune gem feat.

Of course, the other option would be to have the same number of item creation feats as in 3.5e, but give them away freely as character level options more often (specifically an item creation feat, not an item creation feat or a metamagic feat.... and maybe further defining it to the less useful ones like craft wand, brew potion, craft rod, etc...). Specifically thinking like 3rd level wizard get brew potion, 7th lvl craft wand. Same with sorcerers and clerics. Druids might get something different than craft wand or nothing at all. Bards get more bardicly oriented stuff and not magic item creation.


Also well put sir.




John

Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!

On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale

The Old Grey Box gets better with age!
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000