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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5230 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2019 :  10:14:06  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the end I went for all monarchies in the moonshaes are a form of elected monarchy (except for the high king and now callidyrr which have hereditary monarchies).

So the clans elect a king from within a hereditary dynasty. This is just a formality however and in almost all instances the title passes from father to eldest child unless they are deemed wholly unsuitable (like Tristan due to his age and behaviour).

I figure the current and middle ages behaviour of Scottish nobility was all derived and inherited from exposure to England (via conquest or just imitation) so I ignored almost all of that and went back to a time without a hereditary monarchy where the clans owned the land. The king therefore had to keep the support of the clans or else risk being deposed and so a peripatetic monarchy helps a king do that (spending time with all clans).

The king is therefore more of a peacekeeper in early moonshae society. Centrally powerful kingdoms like callidyrr eroded the power of the clans completely and have all but removed them from society. Corwell is less centralised than callidyrr and so has turned the clans into a form of hereditary nobility (making them barons of a sort but the title is owned by the clan as a whole). While moray is a weakly centralised monarchy and so has remained in the same ancient clan structure of the moonshae isles (with a few exceptions).

I tried to make it as workable and fluid as possible within the bounds of history using what information was available on the moonshaes (callidyrr had Earl's so that were feudal nobility, corwell had clans voting for a king so they were at least part tanistry, moray had no castle so was not centralised at all).

I agree the opportunity for intrigue is greater in moray but I don't think the ffolk are like that. I'm not sure any of the clans want to be king really, it's hard work and they don't gain much more power than they have now. Intrigue is much more prevalent in callidyrr with the significant tethyrian heritage.

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1745 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2019 :  13:32:33  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK, here's a weird one ... not sure I should bring it up. Have you looked at Realmspace, pages 55-56? Curious about Omar McDauphin, now a stone giant? Curious about the origins of the Dark Moon assassins? Curious where Iron Keep Bay came from?

Inquiring minds should not want to know ...

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5230 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2019 :  13:47:30  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have looked at Omar macdauphin and I decided that the mention of his events being recent was a mistake or a relative version of recent. After coming up with a timeline for everything I figure the northmen conquered Oman in 761 dr and that Omar macdauphin couldn't have a castle on the island after that date.

So I made the disappearance of his castle leave a huge hole in defences on the island and allowed the northmen to conquer it. The northmen invasion prompted his badly worded wish which inadvertently made the invasion successful.

The dark moon I have as a wolf shape shifting group of assassins that live in the feywild / plane of faeree, and have been used to kill a number of ffolk and northmen kings (they tried to kill high king tanner (or perhaps byron, I forget now). They use the moonwells and faerie crossroads to get where they need and then change into a wolf and eat their target. Those who fail to kill the target are killed so many flee into exile.


Just my thoughts

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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 08 Dec 2019 16:46:28
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5230 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2019 :  16:16:40  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I also made iron keep the former site of the capital of the firbolg empire that once covered much of the moonshaes (which grond was ruler of.

The ruins were ancient and occupied by giants, so the ffolk and northmen had to periodically clear them out only for the giants to return.

At least that's what I've done with them. There really isn't any other lore available.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5230 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2019 :  16:58:25  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm very interested to know your plans for the dark moon. I am conscious that I likely violated canon but could not resolve that semi realms resource to the reality.

A century ago (which I think is the timeframe it gives in realm space) contradicts novel lore regarding Oman, it also goes against the trend of declining power in the ffolk kingdoms and a lack of cooperation among them. If a single ffolk kingdom were able to take back a portion of Oman from the soon to be most powerful northmen nation in the moonshaes then the present of the moonshaes would look very different.

So I decided a century could have meant centuries, or perhaps that source was written a long time ago and described an event more recent to that.

Just my thoughts, I'm more than happy to discuss all the sources and my reasoning and potential developments if you want (email is fine if you want to not give away any hints)

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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1346 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2020 :  20:32:35  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eric,

I'm not much in inquiring mind as a water testing toe-tipper so that I can make that acrobatics check to spin out and live! haha

So...when do we get these amazing things? :)

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

OK, here's a weird one ... not sure I should bring it up. Have you looked at Realmspace, pages 55-56? Curious about Omar McDauphin, now a stone giant? Curious about the origins of the Dark Moon assassins? Curious where Iron Keep Bay came from?

Inquiring minds should not want to know ...


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1346 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2020 :  20:35:21  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eric,

I'm not much in inquiring mind as a water testing toe-tipper so that I can make that acrobatics check to spin out and live! haha

So...when do we get these amazing things? :)

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

OK, here's a weird one ... not sure I should bring it up. Have you looked at Realmspace, pages 55-56? Curious about Omar McDauphin, now a stone giant? Curious about the origins of the Dark Moon assassins? Curious where Iron Keep Bay came from?

Inquiring minds should not want to know ...


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2020 :  16:23:41  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Will there ever be a dynastic listing of the monarchies of the Ffolk? Since the policy is to have them elective, then you would have to spend some time creating a nobility/clans/gentry that would comprise the pool of candidates.

And if we can't have them all, how about the line of the Corwell Kendricks, including the ones that were "passed over", if any.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5230 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2020 :  16:29:43  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When I say elective I mean elective from within the same dynasty (I think it's called tanist succession).

So the clans could elect who they wanted to rule but only from within the same family. When that family line ends (or in the case of tristan there are no suitable heirs) then it falls back to the ancient high kings law (the high king chooses).

I eventually ran out of motivation and material but hope to one day come back to this. The crux of the issue of Tristan kendricks succession crisis was that he was the last of the line and so even in a tanist succession model that causes a problem.


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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2020 :  18:18:16  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

When I say elective I mean elective from within the same dynasty (I think it's called tanist succession).



Yes, that system is called tanistry.

Edited by - ElfBane on 25 May 2020 18:19:12
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5230 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2020 :  18:38:45  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good to know my years spent playing crusader kings 2 were not entirely wasted.

From what I can gather elective succession is not uncommon in tribal societies and looking at the cymrych dynasty you can see that occasionally a third son inherits before a 2nd son and that is likely only possible with an elective succession

Because there are dynasties it must have been elective within a dynasty (tanistry) and because the other ffolk kingdoms were founded after the formation of callidyrr it is likely that they inherited their governance from the high kingdom.

Yes corwell is a special case because it was originally governed directly from callidyrr (as cymrych hugh was king of both) and set a regent to govern corwell, but tribes and nobility tend to get angry if they have their noble rights removed so a tanistry succession is the sensible option in all cases.
The fact that it reverts to the high kings judgement if no heir is selected is probably a law from the time of the mad high king who slew and entire dynasty and moved his capital to corwell (so he could seize control of it).

Anyways, ramblings over. I'm fairly certain all the canon points to tanistry a d the lack of a suitable heir means Tristan must have been the last of his dynasty. Another dynasty could have been chosen but that requires the agreement of all the clans of corwell or a ruling from the high king.
Plus it's an easy get out for those developing the moonshaes as it means Tristan is the last surviving kendrick so no more detailing is required for claimants.

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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1346 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2020 :  19:21:42  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe ElfBane,

It is odd, I must say. It's so spotty in that you can easily find Cymrych Hugh as first High King, and find a few others here and there, but nothing substantial, which is odd with the considerable history and seeming continuity of rulers.

Best regards,



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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