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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1348 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2014 :  12:59:37  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think you are missing some references from Grand History.

Specifically, Grand History, page 66, sidebar, and page 114, sidebar.

Also look at:

-9900 DR
-9800 DR
193 DR
201 DR
256 DR
467 DR
621 DR
1345 DR
1346 DR
1357 DR
1365 DR

There might be other relevant entries I missed. That was based on keyword searching.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 27 Nov 2014 13:03:43
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2014 :  13:59:12  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good call on the sidebars, i always miss thouse. I've also got the lineage of kings from GHoTR, plus the entries from Dragon 362. I wonder what a drathak is?

Hadnt read the entry for 621 DR though before and that is quite interesting. I also missed out the last paragraph of 256 DR when I copied it out.

Weird that its Northmen from Gundarlun and Tuern that take some of the Northern Moonshae Isles (although it doesn't say which ones so it could just be the Korinn Archipelago) and not Ruathym which is much closer and I imagine bigger.

I kind of picture the Northmen gradually moving further south taking Norheim, Norland, Oman's Isle and finally Gnarhelm. If they were just raiders its unlikely they would be able to take an entire island by force (especially if being resisted by the various Ffolk kingdoms), but the survivors could move to the Korinn Archipelago and then help with further raids in later years taking the more mountainous and less populated areas first (Norheim and Norland) before getting a foothold on the central island of the Moonshaes (Oman's Isle) and then finally getting a foothold on Callidyrr.

There was probably even some retaking of territory by Ffolk kings. Gwylloch seems to have been quite successful (filling a castle with the skulls of his enemies).



By 621 DR we have Norland well established and it looks like the death of princess bridget not only ends the peace between Callidyrr and Norland but also might lead up to the loss of land that became Gnarhelm by weakening Callidyrr with constant raids.

I'm thinking that in 852 DR the Illuskan fleet arrived around Sunderstaad. High King Dolan crossed Whitefish Bay with a portion of his army towards High Rock where he hoped to swing round behind the Northmen invaders that were rampaging across the north of Alaron while the bulk of his army moved through Blackstone to stop them.

High King Dolan perishes, the battle between Illuskan and Ffolk is a stalemate and Callidyrr has to conceded Gnarhelm to the Northmen as winter approaches in 852 DR.


Well thankfully I have less work to do tomorrow so I will begin jotting down ideas for the Moonshaes.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15711 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2014 :  14:21:58  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The history of the Moonshaes pretty-much mirrors that of the British Isles, right down to the 'Northmen invasions'. If you want the logic behind them in FR, just look at the RW version.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing them just get rid of the Moonshaes (or, at least, change-it-up for 5e... maybe have the Northmen fully take the place). Its not really a great fit with FR, its history isn't tied-in very well, and it seems rather redundant with so much else.

Not to mention it being a British Isles knock-off, as I mentioned above. They really need to do away with the obvious derivations.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 27 Nov 2014 14:22:50
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2014 :  14:48:07  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And that's why I do my little reinvention projects.

At the moment the defining characteristic of the Moonshae is gone. It was man versus nature and that's finished with Kazgoroth dead and Bhaal gone. It was also Ffolk versus Northman and that's finished with the alliance between the two peoples.

I'm deliberately not going to look at the history of the British Isles (although I know it in brief because I live there) as I don't want to be influenced by it (in much the same way as I didn't look at the history of Egypt or Sumeria when focusing on Mulhorand).

I'm going to go with the facts we have and build a picture from there. It will be one primarily dealing with conquest/colonisation but I'm going to put nature far more at the forefront.

The Earthmother doesn't like being colonised and have all her trees chopped down, her minerals plundered, and her plains filled with farmland. The Earthmother probably doesn't like the humanoids at all. So I'm going to have her try and evict them.

I'm thinking the children were birthed in an order to counteract humanoid habitation in or near her. So Leviathan is a response to an aquatic race.

Kamerynn is a response to the fey.

The pack is a response to the elves.

Rendar the bear and the Shadow Hunt can be a response to the dwarves, giants, and or humans.


Kamerynn and the pack appear shortly after the arrival of the races I mentioned. Leviathans arrival was screwed up by the Sundering which stretches backwards and forwards in time and so he gets birthed much later than he should have and with no real purpose anymore.

Kazgoroth was actually the first and the strongest and given his shapeshifting tendencies and reptilian nature I wonder if its not something to do with the sarrukh. I reckon the Earthmother was reluctant to release him because of his power and so much like Othea and Hart she kept him imprisoned inside.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15711 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2014 :  17:17:10  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know you don't want to know (and you said you 'know it in brief'), but in a nutshell it follows the same pattern of just about every other 'invasion'.

1) Raid
2) Raid a LOT
3) Decide to stay so you can raid easier next season...
4) Build permanent colonies along the coast, which cuts into raiding time.
5) Second generation - most raiders have now become 'settlers'
6) New wave of raiders, now raiding the first group...
7) Raid some more...
8) Ad Infinitum...

A couple of hundred years later, the last folk to arrive say, "go back to where you came from! You're taking our jobs!"

And that, my friend, is human history.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2014 :  20:08:36  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds right but we can spice it up a little with some magic (not too much) and some monsters and a great big shattered primordial creature.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2014 :  21:17:08  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm looking for where the Illuskan fleet of 852 DR came from and it looks like it came from Illusk (Luskan) itself and the remains of the realm of Stornanter which is pretty much the only Illuskan realm left.

Stornanter collapses in 841 DR and in 852 DR we have a fleet travelling to the Moonshaes. In 882 Nimoar the Reaver establishes Nimoars Hold so it seems a period of migration occurred after Stornanter's collapse.

I also found this line which comes from Races of Faerun.

quote:
In the century leading up to the beginning of Dalereckoning, the ancient Illuskan kingdom of Ruathym was wracked by intertribal strife stemming from a population that had grown too large for the islandís limited resources. Illuskan dragonships set sail for the other islands of the Trackless Sea, including Mintarn, the northern Moonshae Isles, and the Whalebones, where various Illuskan tribes established new colonies.



Looks like the Northmen gained a hold on the Korinn Archipelago first before the Ffolk even arrived.

It also makes more sense that the Northmen came from Ruathym first and not Gundarlun or Tuern (which are much further away). Although once word gets out about choice targets in the Moonshaes a few centuries later, other nations might get involved.

I guess the Northmen don't establish colonies on the larger Moonshae isles because there are far fewer northmen involved than when the Ffolk turn up (which was a migration of several Talfir noble houses (minor nobles perhaps) which could number several thousand people.

Ruathym itself only houses 6000 people in total so little more than a few hundred might try and set up raiding colonies in the archipelago perhaps even less than 100

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2014 :  12:40:16  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the process of creating a few new timeline entries to tie things up and give dates to them.

Up to 1345 DR everything should play out exactly as it does in canon history (with a few added extras). After that i'm hoping to make things a little more interactive and slightly different (but with the same result).

I found a 30 year ago mention for the formation of the wizards council of Callidyrr in Tristans history.

Flamsterd's isle was destroyed only recently but he appears to have had involvement way back in the history of the Moonshaes (i envisaged Flmasterdbeing a court mage to Callidyrr a noble of Ebenfar.)

Then in the Wizard's Workbook writeup it states he was in Waterdeep and purchased Flamsterd the island using profits made from selling secrets of the workbook.

So i took the conclusion that after his suspected involvement in Gwyllochs death that Gwyllochs son would want him exiled forever. Cue a long stay in other places ultimately ending in Waterdeep whereupon he leaves when things get bad and he has money enough to buy an island back in his homeland.


- 323 DR Year of the Miscast Shadows: Following the coronation after the defeat of his brother, High King Markus Cymrych exiles the wizard Flamsterd from the Moonshae Island for high treason and his involvement in the madness and death of High King Gwylloch. Many suspect the evidence has been fabricated by Markus; son of Gwylloch, who fears reprisal from the wizard for the slaying of High King Gorham who was a fast friend of the court mage (like his father). It is many centuries before a court mage is appointed to the Ffolk kingdoms of the Moonshae isles.
- 1266 Year of the Leaping Frog: Using the profits gained from selling the secrets of the Wizardís Workbook, Flamsterd purchases the island that will soon bear his name from the King Cerestann Kendrick of Corwell. Despite Flamsterdís former banishment from the Moonshaes nearly a millennia ago, the King approves the purchase in order to enrich his coffers.
- 1310 DR Year of Storms: Alec Carrathal IV, King of Callidyrr creates the Council Sorcere out of a fear of future assassination attempts. 6 visiting magic users from mainland FaerŻn are given position on the council under leadership of the newly appointed Sorcere Majir Curmanvyss, a former pupil of Flamsterd that escaped the islandís destruction decades earlier.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5454 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2014 :  13:03:44  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why the use of RW names like Markus and Alec?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2014 :  13:04:37  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another date dealing with Cymbre and Amye as detailed in the book Tidings of Woe and Conflict who attempted to create a kingdom of undead 2 centuries ago.

I figured tying it to the Cauldron of Doom and the Drathak of Kazgoroth both seemed quite fitting (drathak is now aspecial type of undead creature because the cauldron is used to make undead).

Did a bit of renaming which hopefully is in line with Celtic stuff. Caer Cymrych is the original name of the castle of skulls. I figured that Llyrath castle could be a modern corruption of Cymrych (ll being a C sound in welsh and ch becoming th over time) then why not have Gwylloch Cymrych name a castle after his own House in honour of its greatness.

Duum is i hope a dwarven and celtic sounding word to signify its origin as being fashioned by a dwarven blacksmith with Kazgoroth watching over it. Not to hard to imagine it becoming Doom over a millennia.




- 1108 DR Year of the Open Chest: The three witches of Kimball Moor discover the location of the Caer Cymrych in the depths of Llyrath forest. Inside the dark practitioners bend the spirits of the Castle of Skulls to their will and find the Cauldron of Duum. Pushing her mother into the cauldron, Cymbre fashions the first drathak seen on the Moonshae in nearly a millennia.

I'm intending to have Cantrev Pontswain pretend to be conquered by Cymbre when in reality they throw in their lot to overthrow the Kendricks of Corwell.

The Kendricks then hire a cabal of mages to deal with Cymbre and her undead horde, but the wizards do fail and retreat to Winterglen (clearing out the elves that lived there - which is in the Moonshae sourcebook but without a date). The druids can then unexpectedly arrive to help Corwell by calling Llyrath forest to life which kills the undead, probably at Manann's Scar where the taint of undead and one of the witches prevents the forest from growing there anymore.

I'm using the 4e maps from the dragon magazines for a lot of the geography.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2014 :  13:07:12  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Why the use of RW names like Markus and Alec?

-- George Krashos



Those are the names in the lineage of Callidyrr's kings in GHoTR

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15711 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2014 :  14:25:14  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Huh.

I've never read any of the lineage part. I have to wonder if that was meant for me.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2014 :  16:37:41  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Trying to figure out what happened with Cymbre and Amye. I figure there were originally 3 (witches always come in threes), three generations of the same family. They find the castle of skulls and the cauldron of doom and Cymbre chucks here mother inside it to see what it does (and so she can be in charge).

Then Cymbre and her daughter set about kidnapping folk and forcing them into the cauldron where they rise as drathak under their control. Eventually the numbers of undead get so large that they have an army and defeat the forces of Corwell so they can plague the land with undead marauders that raid homes and take the inhabitants off into the night (and the cauldron).

Unfortunately for Cymbre and Amye, what they dont realise is that everytime they use the cauldron it drains a bit of their own life-force, ageing them a bit. After they have created several hundred of these monsters Cymbre dies suddenly and Amye is left as barely a vestige of herself, a disembodied spirit tied to the cauldron.

The druids then use their powers to expunge the undead from the forest.



- 1108 DR Year of the Open Chest: The three witches of Kimball Moor discover the location of Caer Cymrych in the depths of Llyrath forest. Inside the dark practitioners bend the spirits of the Castle of Skulls to their will and find the Cauldron of Duum. Pushing her mother into the cauldron, Cymbre fashions the first drathak seen on the Moonshae in nearly a millennia.
- Meeting with Dyllerv Llimbael Lord of Pontswain in his hall Gorwyr Pontswain, the two remaining witches of Kimball Moor strike a deal with the lord. Following that day the people of Pontswain and further west on Gwynneth begin disappearing. Ever greater numbers of drathak are seen wandering the moors and in Llyrath Forest.

- 1109 DR: King Serdilln Kendrick of Corwell, responding to the pleas of Lord Martellth Candrrt of Cantrev Dynnatt and Lord Dyllerv Llimbael of Cantrev Pontswain, hires a cabal of mages from the Western Heartlands to research and combat the disappearances plaguing the west of Corwell.
- The Corwell Cabal traces the cause of the troubles to the Castle of Skull. Flashes of colour and loud explosions are heard for days around Llyrath Forest. The Corwell Cabal are spotted by Corwellís scouts retreating hurriedly from the castle before disappearing amid much confusion and a throng of undead creatures.
- Winterglen forest is scoured of Llewyrr by several mages that appear in their midst and conjure all manner of creatures from other planes to eliminate the elves.

- 1110 DR Year of the Bloody Fields: The forces of Corwell and the Witches of Kimball Moor meet west of Cantrev Dynnatt. The result is a loss for Corwell and the army is forced to pull back to Caer Corwell. Undead drathak roam the lands of Corwell for several years as far east as Cantrev Kingsbay, kidnapping citizens and taking them into Llyrath Forest. Armed forays by troops from Moray and Callidyrr are unable to remove the drathak infestation which congregate into hordes whenever faced by large numbers of living opponents.

- 1116 DR Year of the Empty Scabbard: The hordes of drathak reach their peak in this year and the people of Corwell are practically imprisoned within their towns and homes. Suddenly the drathak retreat in a confused state into Llyrath forest. Scouts sent to investigate report the forest came alive and tore the confused drathak to pieces.



Any thoughts or suggestions. Is it Celtic enough because i still cant figure out what Celtic mythology really is about.

I made the Lord of Pontswain a rival of Corwell in this because it happened in the Darkwalker novels and he supposedly had royal blood, so i also gave him a derivative of the Kimball name which is one of the noble houses derived from Cymrych after the end of that dynasty. And Kimball Moor is near Pontswain so i linked the two.

Following the end of Cymbre and Amye, the Lord of Pontswain can just claim he was bewitched and so gets away scot free.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2014 :  11:53:12  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just a few ideas to expand upon the Earthmother and Kazgoroth and her children.

I'm looking to explain how Kazgoroth returns without involving direct divine intervention (which I hate, its so uninspired) so I can write a campaign that involves the PCs dealing with Kazgoroth instead of it already being dealt with.

Kazgoroth is not really fighting against the Earthmother at all, instead he wants to destroy all humanoid life. He uses the Earthmother's children to achieve that aim and so the druids interpret that as him attempting to destroy the Earthmother.

The druids are using ancient rites and ritual that they misunderstand the meaning of, thinking they are preserving the balance they are actual working to keep the Earthmother subdued. When the threat of Kazgoroth arrives i think it likely that they would deliberately try to awaken the Earthmother, not realising she doesn't want them there.


Rendar the Bear: A great juggernaut of destruction capable of rending stone and tree as easily as flesh. What appears as normal a normal bear, when challenged Rendar grows in size in proportion to his fury until he towers over the tallest of giants. His great paws are capable of crushing rocks and his stomp cracks the ground beneath him.
The dwarves and giants fought amongst one another for many years until Rendar arrived and fought Grond Peaksmasher, the giant primordial was stopped only by the titanic stomp of Rendar that cracked the earth beneath his feet causing him and his fortress to collapse into the huge rift which then closed about him imprisoning him beneath the earth.

The Shadow Hunt: The Shadow Hunt arrived sometime after the Northmen came to the Moonshae Isles. When it manifests the animals of the forest organise into a great herd that roams the lands. All who view the Shadow Hunt are compelled to take part, leaving their homes, their loved ones, their weapons, and even their clothes behind as they run naked through the isles. Many collapse from exhaustion and perish from the weeks long hunt, for only the strongest will survive. At the end the Shadow Hunt simply vanishes into the forest and those caught under its spell are never heard from again. Some whisper the animals turn on their pursuers in an orgy of frenzied bloodlust, others speak of seeing their loved ones again in the sprites and korreds and other fey creatures that roams the Moonshae Isles.


The Druids
The Le-Shay recognised the threat posed by the Earthmother to humanoid life upon her surface. They realised that in order to live on the Moonshae Isles they would have to keep their impact upon life on the isle to a minimum so as to escape her notice. The Moonwells are a physical representation of the Earthmother, the conduits through which many of the children have been born, and a direct line to the Earthmother herself.
After the arrival of Kamerynn, the Le-Shay devoted themselves to preserving the Moonshae Isles and the Earthmother (whether by choice or through Kamerynn's influence is unknown). When the elves, dwarves, and giants arrived millennia later, the Le-Shay realised this would be only the beginning of many intrusions by other races upon the Earthmother's surface and their dwindling numbers could not hold them off or make them live as the Le-Shay do.
The elves were also great lovers of nature and lived in harmony with nature, albeit with more impact upon the natural world than the Le-Shay themselves, and so the Le-Shay taught the Llewyrr what they could about the Earthmother and how to placate the slumbering primordial. They also left Kamerynn in the care of the elves, and then to escape the inevitable troubles that would follow when the Earthmother awoke, they left FaerŻn as soon as they could as Toril gradually drifted closer in connection to the Plane of Faerie.
The elves became the caretakers of the Earthmother and under Kamerynn's influence their numbers also declined. By the time the humans arrived the elves were too few to minimise the damage done by the dwarves, giants, and more monstrous humanoids that were gradually migrating to the Moonshaes.
The elves taught the humans druidic rites necessary to keep the Moonwells clean and clear, and they taught them about the Balance of Nature whereby everything the humans needed they had to work to replace, being careful not to overly despoil nature. For the elves had forgotten the true meaning of the rites and their need to keep the Earthmother unaware of their presence.
The Druids of the Moonshae Circle cared for the isles as best they could to preserve the Balance of Nature, but events had long been set in motion that would upset the balance.
Kazgoroth, the Earthmother's destructive spawn was released from his prison inside her womb long ago. He attempted to destroy all humanoid life upon the isles in revenge for ancient wounds inflicted upon him. Only the united efforts of dwarves, elves, giants, and the few remaining Le-Shay allowed them to destroy Kazgoroth, or so they thought.
Kazgoroth survived in the few parts of himself left behind. The Cauldron of Dhuum; into which he poured his own blood as part of its creation, one of his horns that was severed from him by the sword forged to defeat him (which is later reforged into the sword of Cymrych Hugh), and the skin he shed as he first emerged from his long imprisonment.
These evil artefacts would cause untold destruction through those in their possession and held the secret to Kazgoroth's return.





I'm thinking that placing the horn and the skin into the cauldron causes Kazgoroth to return. Since Bane and Bhaal's clergy were both trying to gain a presence on the isle it makes sense that they should be the ones to try and find the artefacts and bring them together.

It might be that all of Bane's servitor gods were ordered to send their clergy to establish a presence on the isles (to create a new kingdom for Bane). Then the first quest could be for the PCs to stop it. If they fail Kazgoroth gets reborn. If they succeed then the druids rather unwisely (believing the Earthmother to be all powerful and actually willing to destroy Kazgoroth) attempt to destroy the artefacts by throwing them into the Great Moonwell which causes him to be reborn anyway.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15711 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2014 :  15:26:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another thread had me thinking about the Moonshaes (the druid one), and I had said earlier (above) that I would like to see the Northmen take the rest of the Moonshaes in 5e, but now I am rethinking that. A 'Norse' region would be just as derivative as a 'Celtic Britain' one would be (even if the Norse make a better fit in FR, IMO).

Now I am thinking that the Moonshaes could become the 5e equivalent of Evermeet - much more 'fey', and MUCH closer to FaerŻn (in other words, actually USABLE!) I think that may have been the direction Brian James was trying to take it with is 4e Moonshaes article. Basically, a small slice of 'Faerie' right in our backyard.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

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Posted - 30 Nov 2014 :  09:36:05  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like BRJ's articles and I always copy them into my archive (which is more than I do for the rest of 4e).

I also like the idea of karador returning and the plane of faerie as a transitive plane like the astral, ethereal and shadow planes. That way events on the material plane can affect faerie and cause karadors return.

However without the human presence there seems little point in having the area as the realms is often about humanity and the other humanoid races struggling to survive.

This age belongs to the humans so i intend to keep that trend. Plus most of the detail in the moonshae is human. Without that detail it becomes a bit bland.

I think ill do the northmen arrival next with struggles against dragons and giants and other monsters.

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sleyvas
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Posted - 30 Nov 2014 :  16:47:06  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

The history of the Moonshaes pretty-much mirrors that of the British Isles, right down to the 'Northmen invasions'. If you want the logic behind them in FR, just look at the RW version.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing them just get rid of the Moonshaes (or, at least, change-it-up for 5e... maybe have the Northmen fully take the place). Its not really a great fit with FR, its history isn't tied-in very well, and it seems rather redundant with so much else.

Not to mention it being a British Isles knock-off, as I mentioned above. They really need to do away with the obvious derivations.




I actually DON'T want to see that happen. If anything, I just want to see the human influence become lessened in the area.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
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Posted - 30 Nov 2014 :  17:03:15  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I like BRJ's articles and I always copy them into my archive (which is more than I do for the rest of 4e).

I also like the idea of karador returning and the plane of faerie as a transitive plane like the astral, ethereal and shadow planes. That way events on the material plane can affect faerie and cause karadors return.

However without the human presence there seems little point in having the area as the realms is often about humanity and the other humanoid races struggling to survive.

This age belongs to the humans so i intend to keep that trend. Plus most of the detail in the moonshae is human. Without that detail it becomes a bit bland.

I think ill do the northmen arrival next with struggles against dragons and giants and other monsters.



Hmmm, actually the struggle could be that the humans lose ground and that the fey take ground. Problem being that the fey aren't necessarily organized and together either. In fact, you might have the "lesser" giantish races (firbolgs, verbeeg, fomorians, cyclops) from faerie working against the "light fey" from faerie and arrayed against both of these are the "dark fey" in the form of a community of wee folk (red caps, spriggans, quicklings, buckawns, etc...) who possibly are working with a group of underdark small folk (derro, duergar, gloura and maybe gloamings with their furry wings from Underdark). Throw in a cloud island controlled by cloud giants, eldritch giants, and storm giants.... and maybe another island under the control of stone and frost giants that is in conflict with the northmen.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 30 Nov 2014 :  19:57:34  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I might mix in a bit of my own musings on the giant pantheon with this since Grond Peaksmasher is a giant primordial and appears to be a firbolg so why not make him the first firbolg and creator of the other firbolgs.

In my version Karontor (Grolantor's better looking and smarter brother) cursed the giant kin (firbolg, verbeeg, and fomorian) to make them hideous and warped. He thought the other giants would welcome his actions against their half relatives but of course the giant kin were still half relatives and didn't deserve to be cursed in such a way so Karontor was likewise cursed into his own hideous form (when Hiatea tracked him down).

The verbeeg and fomorians were affected as expected by the curse, but Grond Peaksmasher took the curse upon himself to preserve the firbolgs.


Now in my version each of the giant children of Annam not only created a subrace of giants in their own image, but they also mated with those giants to create a kind of giant royalty. Many of the primordials and their royal bloodline ended up in Hartsvale (the Storm Giant that Hart battled was one such royal) but I doubt the giantkin were allowed in Hartsvale.

Grondpeaksmasher and his children went elsewhere (the regular firbolgs just spread out among the giant kingdoms), probably thinking it was safer on an island away from the mainland full of giants and dwarves and elves and dragons.

So because Grond Peaksmasher took the whole curse of Karontor and became more bestial and monstrous and since the royalty of the firbolgs have his blood then they also likely incurred some of the curse.

That way I don't have to have any fomorians from the feywild appearing out of nowhere to explain why the firbolgs of the Moonshaes are different to the firbolgs on the rest of Faerun.

Of course it would only get a brief mention, something along the lines of "Grond being cursed by one of the giants and both him and his bloodline becoming more monstrous in looks and nature, then Hiatea taking him under her wing like a mother. Grond and his royal house travel to the Moonshaes looking to escape the troubles of Faerun."





Also wondered about where Grond Peaksmasher came from. Starting at -6000 DR the dwarves from Deep Shanatar started venturing to the surface. I wonder if there wasn't a realm of giants somewhere north of Calimshan that the dwarves found and evicted so they could create High Shanatar (they fought Nedeheim in -5300 DR).

Grond leads his people to the Moonshae Isles after that.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 30 Nov 2014 :  20:20:55  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nuts I've just read up Eric Boyd's excellent Mab of the Moonshae Isles and he was rose to a place on the High King's Council of Mages before being banished in 1302 DR.

The problem is that according to Tristan's writeup in the Heroes Lorebook is that it was created 30 years before by Reginald's father.

So now I need to have King Alec IV of Callidyrr abolish the Council of Mages because of an assassination attempt (and banish Mab) before reforming it 6 years later.

Not a problem though because King Benjamin of Callidyrr (Alec's dad) was assassinated and therefore if he was assassinated with help from the High King's Council of Mages (who have been stated to largely serve themselves) then he abolishes it, only to later reform it with those more loyal to himself because of ongoing assassination attempts. Mab of course was banished because the evidence pointed to him being the culprit on the council of mages (although nothing could be proved).

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 30 Nov 2014 :  20:48:10  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
More randomness, this time relating to the lineage of Callidyrr.

quote:
HK Cymrych: Born 171, Reigned 193/250*, First son of Callidyrr; died of wounds suffered years earlier in combat against Kazgoroth.
Christopher Riker: [R] Born 174, Regent [201/250], Champion of Cymrych Hugh; named regent of Corwell in 201; died in 256.
Cedric Riker: [R] Born 198, Regent [250/272], Son of Reagent Christopher Koart.
Cymrych Dynasty of Callidyrr
HK Warren I: Born 237, Reigned 250/259, First son of Cymrych Hugh; died of illness.
HQ Tamara: Born 238, Reigned 259/263, First daughter of Cymrych Hugh; poisoned
HK Carrig I: Born 244, Reigned 263/287, Second son of Cymrych Hugh; died in combat against Northmen invaders.
HK Gwylloch: Born 265, Reigned 287/299, First son of Carrig I; driven mad and died in suicidal orgy of combat within his court at the Palace of Skulls.
HK Gorham: Born 270, Reigned 299/322, Second son of Carrig I; slain by Markus.
HK Markus: Born 288, Reigned 322/333, Second son of Gwylloch; died in combat.
HK Cameron "the Wise": Born 291, Reigned 333/370, Grandson of Warren I; died of natural causes.



At first everything looks fine. Cymrych Hugh rules from 193-250 DR and he dies of wounds suffered by Kazgoroth. Then we see he has a regent from 201-250 DR who is only named regent of Corwell.

So Cyrmrych Hugh is already King of Corwell, he unites Callidyrr and moves his house to Callidyrr in 201 DR leaving a regent to rule Corwell.

What is weird is the rule of Callidyrr after Cymrych Hugh. It passes to his first son Warren I who takes the throne aged 13 and dies aged 22 of disease. Then it passes to Cymrych Hugh's first daughter who dies age 25 of poisoning. Then it passes to Cymrych Hugh's second son Carrig I.

That in itself is strange. Normally I would expect a kingdom to be primogenitor in that it passes to the eldest children in order until one of them has a child. Of course whether a society favours males or males and females depends on whether it goes to sons only or not.
However this title appears to pass through the children in age order.


Then the next set of kings are the first son of Carrig, the second son of Carrig, and then the second son of the first son of Carrig before passing to the Grandson of Cymrych Hugh's first son Warren I.


What the hell kind of succession law is that. If Warren I had a son (which he obviously did) then the title should have ignored Cymrych Hugh's daughter and second son completely and passed to Warren I's son before passing to his grandson.

The only thing I can think of is that in the beginning, the High King of the Moonshae was an elective title, i.e. all the Cantrev lords voted who they wanted to be High King (or Queen) and maybe it was Cameron the Wise (grandson of Warren I) that changed the succession law to be primogenitor (eldest child of that dynasty), which is probably what made him wise in the first place.

It certainly seems that the early kings of the Hugh dynasty were killed off in various accidents and plots that were likely backed or orchestrated by cantrev lords that wanted their favoured candidate to be High King (so he could reward them).


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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 30 Nov 2014 :  20:49:14  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another oddity.

One of the noble families of the Moonshaes was the Selkirk family. Any relation to Miklos Selkirk perhaps or just coincidence?

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 30 Nov 2014 :  21:30:56  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Slight alteration to the colonisation of the Korinn Archipelago after some information discovered in Hoondarrh's writeup.

-65 DR Year of Monstrous Appetites: The Red Terror of Mintarn (an ancient red dragon known as Skadaurak) emerges from the island of Skadaurak after one of his long slumbers and scours the island of Mintarn clean of life to sate his hunger. Little more than a score of Northmen escape the dragon and are discovered months later by ships from Ruathym.
-64 DR Year of Gleaming Frost: Several dragonships of Ruathym land get lost in a storm heading for Mintarn and are scuppered in the Korinn Archipelago of the Moonshae Isles. Avoiding the larger and already inhabited isles of the Moonshaes, these Illuskans become pirates and raiders of the Sword Coast hiding out in the deserted islets that become their homes.




It didn't make sense that the Ffolk got to the Moonshaes unmolested sailing past Mintarn which would have been by then a thriving Northmen raiding port (since it was colonised -1000 DR according to GHoTR). So looking up information about Skadaurak I discovered he slept for long periods of time and was killed in 884 DR, he was last active before that almost 1000 years earlier and lived right next to Mintarn. Makes sense that he removed the Northman presence, the year I chose had a fitting name, and it just so happened to be the year before the one I chose for settling the Korinn Archipelago so there is enough time for Ruathym to try and resettle Mintarn and get lost in a storm or something.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 01 Dec 2014 :  11:35:37  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Heres a few ideas for the beginning of colonisation of the remaining isles of the Moonshaes. Nothing terribly inspired, i figure it is just a normal expansion out of Callidyrr.

Put in something to explain the presence of frost giants in the Jotunhammer Mountains. Of course that is assuming you hold to the idea that the environment determines what type of giants live their by a kind of advanced evolution. So the fire giants of Gundarlun that arrive on Norland eventually become frost giants.




- 140 DR Year of the Executioner: Fleeing persecution under the Shadowking of Ebenfar, tribes of lost Talfir cross the Sea of Swords and settle along the southern shores of the island they name Gwynneth. The settle in the land cleared by Kazgorothís last appearance millennia ago.
- 142 DR Year of the Smiling Princess: Lord Melvair Darkhorn builds Darkhorn Castle at the northern edge of Corwell just outside the boughs of Winterglen Forest (which stretched south past the Cambrent Gap in those days). Lord Darkhorn immediately orders his subjects to begin logging Winterglen Forest despite protests from the settlers who fear the trees are watching them.
- 144 DR Year of the Fear and Flame: Human settlers of Gwynneth come into conflict with the Llewyrr. The Llewyrr raise Darkhorn Castle, causing the forest to erupt inside the castle and pull it apart after warning Lord Melvair Darkhorn to leave the forest alone (warnings he ignored). The chieftain Taylor, consort of Gwynneth "the First Mother," dies in combat with the elves in a retaliatory strike.
- Taylorís death brings about infighting amongst the various lords who refuse to follow the rule of a minor. The Llewyrr are ignored by the humans of Gwynneth who begin petty feuding and settling old scores without a strong leader to enforce the peace.
- 146 DR Year of the Risen Towers: Another wave of settlers fleeing Ebenfar arrives in the Moonshae Isles on the Isle of Alaron and Snowdown. Llorrlden Hugh, a minor noble of Ebenfar lands at Caervu in Gwynneth and quickly becomes friendly with the Llewyrr.
- 149 DR Year of the Dwarf: Victorious in battle, Deric of the Ffolk unites the cantrevs of southern Gwynneth into the fledgling kingdom of Corwell.
- 154 DR Year of the Jealous Hag: King Kaminas of Synnoria and King Deric of Corwell establish peace between their two peoples at the elven capital of Chysalis.
- 177 DR Year of the Troublesome Vixen: Following years of civil war, Callidyrr Hugh, son of Llorlden Hugh of Ebenfar nobility, unites the warring kingdoms of Corwell.
- Lord Christopher Riker of Cantrev Koart is named Regent of Corwell by High King Callidyrr Hugh
- Lord Gwylloch Kincaid is crowned King of Snowdown by High King Callidyrr Hugh.
- 191 DR Year of the Broken Lands: To celebrate the 20th birthday of Prince Cyrmrych Hugh, the islands of Moray, Westarlun (Norland), and Noman's Isle (Omanís Isle) are settled by the Ffolk launched from the newly opened Hughís Loch in the north of Alaron (which is rapidly being tamed by the Ffolk of Callidyrr).
- 201 DR Year of the Student: Bhaal, assumes control of Kazgoroth and sends "the Beast" against the Ffolk of the Moonshaes. The legendary warrior chieftain Cymrych Hugh defeats Kazgoroth and is crowned High King of the Moonshae Isles.
- Later the same year Queen Allisynn succumbs to wounds suffered during the war against Kazgoroth. Cymrych Hugh commissions the construction of a palace to house his wife's body and fills it with vast treasures. Druids then send Caer Allisynn to a watery grave beneath the Strait of Alaron.
- Year 1 of the Moonshae Reckoning (MR) calendar.
- 250 DR Year of the Storm Crown: Upon his death, High King Cymrych Hugh is entombed beneath a barrow mound in the foothills north of Blackstone. With no strong heir to the throne, the kingdoms of Moonshae split among the islands.
- 256 DR Year of the Thousand Snows: Illuskan sailors from the island nations of Tuern and Gundarlun make landfall on the Moonshae Islands, finding a collection of squabbling kingdoms. Over the next couple of centuries, Ffolk settlements throughout the Moonshaes suffer seasonal attacks from the barbaric Northmen. The Ffolk of the Moonshaes gradually concede the northern isles to Illuskan invaders from the island nations of Tuern and Gundarlun.
- Jarl Ingvurt ďThe HammerĒ Graskson, of Tuern, lands on the isle of Greygruun in what will later become part of Norheim. Jarl Ingvurt subdues the Illuskan raiders of the Korinn Archipelago behind his banner.
- Ivar Svalgurt, under orders from Konungr Rurik, the fire giant king of Gundarlun, lands at Westarlun on the western gap between the Jotunspine Mountains. There the 60 strong raiding party (including 8 giants from Gundarlun) rampage across the isle, burning homes and forts to the ground. Upon returning to the ships they find them filled with holes and unusable. The giants retreat into the mountains, the northmen hide out elsewhere inland.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 01 Dec 2014 :  12:20:58  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A year for the conquering of Oman's Isle. Since Gnarghelm is noted as being settled by Northmen from Oman's Isle and i have Gnarhelm conquered about 852 DR. I figured that the death of Princess Bridgit in 621 DR began renewed hostilities between the Ffolk and the Northmen but because the Ffolk had learned about stone fortifications in 467 DR from the people of Tethyr it was much more difficult for the Northment to conquer land.

Then i tied in the disappearance of the castle at Trondheim and Omar Macdauphin who appeared in the Realmspace book. I figure losing a castle is going to be a major blow to defensive efforts on the island.


- 761 DR Year of Laughter: After more than a century of conflict between the Northmen and the Ffolk, the forces of Norland and Norheim manage to breach the defences of Omarís Isle. King Omar MacDauphin and the entire fortress of Omarís Keep and its surrounding village simply vanish as the 30 dragonships from Norland make preparations to land. With one of two major bays on Omarís Isle suddenly undefended the Northmen quickly overrun Aronís Keep. Trondheim is established at the site of Omarís Keep and Aronís Keep is renamed Iron Keep. Over time the names of Nomans Isle and Omarís Isle merge to become Omanís Isle

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