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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2019 :  10:20:38  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anyone ever thought about the hierarchy and structure of a druid organisation before. At the moment all I have is a group made up of individual rings that look after and individual island.

I'm tempted to have an alternating hierarchy based upon phases of the moon or the months. So for instance during hammer the ring of Gwyneth would have authority (and thus the great druid of that ring could override decisions of the great druid of other rings), except for during the night of a full moon when their opposite ring (the ring of norheim which is now defunct) would have authority.

Makes it overly complex but it would be fluid and ever changing like the seasons and prevent one ring having complete dominance over all the others, and is a bit more mature like.

Any thoughts or examples of what people have done themselves.

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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1534 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2019 :  12:27:41  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I'm moving away from the lycanthropy thing as it's too generic and I like unique monsters, (...)


An option would be that the corrupting bite (which is canon) would generate different kinds of lycanthropes. Each individual would transform into a lycanthrope with an animal type which would reflect something of his or her nature... Kazgoroth would be able to see the potential beast in the heart of a possible victim.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2019 :  12:53:10  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I've chosen to make every instance of lycanyhropy a unique event in the moonshae isles (Celtic mythology is not filled with hordes of werewolves, but there are singular instances with unique circumstances.

I decided that Erian was not cursed with lycanthropy by kazgoroth. Instead his exposure to the shape changing Kazgoroth awoke a latent pseudo lycanthropy infection that had lain dormant in his ancestry for centuries. Its detailed in a 3e pdf from wotc but I can't recall what the term is.

The end result is the same. Kazgoroth, if he attacks Erian in the playable version of the Darkwalker War (something I will work on later) then he forces Erian to change into a wolf, but that is more due to an inherited trait in Erian than anything Kazgoroth did.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2019 :  09:33:09  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thinking about regalia for the cornwell dynasties.

First is the regents crown which was originally callidyrr Hugh's crown. Provides bonus to charisma based checks. Ownership contested by the kings of callidyrr. Lost wit king durnhal. Possibly hidden in a cave or buried in western corwell or in the castle of skulls.

Spear of Gwyneth. Made from an oar of one of the ships from the first landing.

Amulet of the chiefs . A strange necklace belonging to Gwyneth. Possibly of eleven origin. Basically it's a compass that always points towards safety

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2019 :  13:49:48  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Onto synnoria. So I'm thinking of making synnorias main defence (the misty illusion that hides it) as a near mythical called the Veil of Synnoria (located around the Vale of Synnoria).

I'm thinking the elves made it using the magic of the moon well to permanently power it. The premise is that if you have not been to synnoria before then you cannot find your way there (unless someone leads you). This means that kazgoroth can find it because he was there -2000 dr before the veil was created, but they never anticipated his return. Cymrych Hugh was shown the way by his wife allisynn, but everyone else will wander the mountain passes forever and never find their way in.

The magic of the moon well provides the soothing music that depresses the birth rate of Male children (who are more aggressive by nature). The Curse of Vyshaan lowers the birthrate of all llewyrr elves anyway (payment for them helping the illefarni elves escape).

Synnoria was once ruled by a laranlor (regal lord). When that line died out it became a stewardship under laransuor (blessed lord) ridinlahr. When he died childless the a council of priests took over, but with such a low population and isolation from other elves all the seafaring churches merged into a single church with serene matriarch ate'niah as its head of church and state.


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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2019 :  21:52:23  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looking for an alternate origin for trolls and goblins on the moonshae isles. I've gone with a corruption theme for kazgoroth and he created the moonshae version of fomorians by corrupting firbolg, so perhaps I could do the same for goblins and trolls.

Goblins seem like an obvious link to halflings (based on size). Trolls are a little more difficult as the firbolgs are the only major giant race on the islands and i already used them for fomorians. I have gone with a spurious ancient link between dwarves and giants so I could make the moonshae trolls a bit shorter and more hairy and make them corrupted dwarves (which would explain their concentration on islands with a dwarves presence).

Sea trolls present a problem though

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5552 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 :  05:14:40  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How about: they were always there?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 :  07:30:33  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's a possibility, but then that makes them just generic trolls and goblins, and I much prefer unique variants because the moonshae are so isolated from everywhere else that it makes it difficult for other races to get to.
The elves, dwarves, humans, firbolg, and presumably halflings as well all had to travel there by boat (or in the case of dwarves by under dark tunnel). I don't see trolls and goblins as being accomplished boat builders, and the portal thing I've already used for orcs (which are my one generic race on the moonshae but they are a recent arrival that fits in with the mainland overwhelming the culture of the islands).

I suppose one could be a manifestation of the islands themselves, the pain of the earth mother causes these nightmarish goblins to appear out of the ground (or trolls).

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 :  11:35:54  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thinking more I'm not sure the trolls and goblins could have always been there. The moonshae isles aas devoid of humanoid life except for the leshay (and they are very lords of a sort) so trolls and goblins would have bred in vast numbers (as they do without anything to reduce their population) and scoured the island chain clean of life.

The elves didn't arrive until -10000 dr so that leaves a long time for trolls and goblins to turn the islands into a barren wasteland.

Now dwarves are prone to transformation from outside sources. The urdunnir and duergar both transformed from dwarves over a prolonged period of time (urdunnir is supposedly a divine transformation but i don't do that so it is magic or magic radiation based for me).

Now trolls are present in alaron, Gwyneth, and moray where the dwarves populations are, so there is a weak link. Perhaps when dwarvenhome fell, the dwarves trapped underground were transformed into these troll like creatures (strong, feral, regenerate, ugly). I have a duergar invasion destroying dwarvenhome so it could even be a mix of dwarf and duergar trolls.

The goblins I think I will link to halflings. Halflings are an early arriver to the moonshae. Kazgoroth warps humans into blood riders, he warps firbolg into fkmorean, elves are too pure to warp, and dwarves are resistant to magic so also don't change, but halflings likely took part in the first war with kazgoroth so there would be a few transformed versions running around - little, feral, vicious, bloodthirsty monsters. They can be concentrated on alaron, Gwyneth, and the kirin archipelago where halflings are present.

I also decided the northmen arrived in the moonshae long before the ffolk, around the time of kazgoroths war, but were nearly wiped out and forced to move on, which is why the islands were avoided for so long after even though other islands were settled by them way before 0 dr.

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Demzer
Senior Scribe

704 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 :  12:28:24  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

... (or in the case of dwarves by under dark tunnel) ...



This can work for goblins and trolls too. At any point one or a few groups/tribes as small or as big as you need might have started to wander under the seabed because they were pushed by other more vicious Underdark horrors or simply because of overpopulation or maybe they were escaped slaves or whatever.

The Leshays would have definitely exterminated any such pest that posed a problem for their enviroment (and so would do the elves) so I wouldn't worry about them taking over the islands.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 :  14:56:16  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's certainly possible for all the monsters of the moonshae to arrive via one means or another. However the feel of the moonshae is distinctly Celtic and that is all about individuality, unique monsters, special heroes, and fantastic places. Out of the box goblins and trolls is not quite so interesting as a breed of goblin or troll that is unique to the moonshae with it's own history and abilities.

Plus i use the one monster many origins model to keep things diverse.

As for the leshay, it may be my interpretation if Fey creatures but I always think of them as a collection of individuals rather than a nation. They sometimes work together under dire circumstances but otherwise go their own mysterious way. I definitely don't think they would exterminate anything (being a bit Gandalf like for unintended consequences) and I'm not sure they have or ever had the numbers necessary to deal with goblin or troll infestations.



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Demzer
Senior Scribe

704 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 :  15:35:19  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

It's certainly possible for all the monsters of the moonshae to arrive via one means or another. However the feel of the moonshae is distinctly Celtic and that is all about individuality, unique monsters, special heroes, and fantastic places. Out of the box goblins and trolls is not quite so interesting as a breed of goblin or troll that is unique to the moonshae with it's own history and abilities.

Plus i use the one monster many origins model to keep things diverse.



And this is commendable but everything everywhere having it's own origin kills immersion at some point. I can understand the concept for different Prime Material Planes, differents universes and different Planes and even very very distant places. But ultimately the Moonshaes are not that isolated, their climate is not very special, the "good" demihuman races got there with ships or through the Underdark or portals and I don't see many problems with the "evil" demihuman races doing the same.

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

As for the leshay, it may be my interpretation if Fey creatures but I always think of them as a collection of individuals rather than a nation. They sometimes work together under dire circumstances but otherwise go their own mysterious way. I definitely don't think they would exterminate anything (being a bit Gandalf like for unintended consequences) and I'm not sure they have or ever had the numbers necessary to deal with goblin or troll infestations.



A single leshay (as we know it from game mechanics/canonical tales) can wipe out entire nations of goblins and trolls.
I'm not talking of going on a genocidal spree just because, I'm saying that if the pests (trolls/goblins) got out of control on their own (for example, outbreeding their surrounding) then the leshays would take a split second to annihilate any excess that was threatening the balance of the ecosystem they were living in.
The elves later would do the same, with several order of magnitudes less overpowering force but anyway probably much more than what any troll/goblin tribe could muster in the limited confines of the Moonshaes.

The orc hordes of the North and the goblinoids hordes of the south and the heartlands are much more dangerous because they live in enviroments that can sustain much much bigger populations, so when overpopulation occurs the numbers are already out of scale with respect to the "civilised nations" of man- elf- and dwarvenkind. The Moonshae cannot suffer a similar issue.

Edited by - Demzer on 10 May 2019 15:35:58
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 :  19:26:16  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very true about immersion. Thus far my one monster many origins model has only applied to the rarer creatures which have a low population density. It doesn't work for common creatures, which is why I left the humanoid (elf, dwarf, human etc) as they are, but the origin always begins on Toril.

I suppose goblins are crafty enough and widespread enough to make their way anywhere (like orcs). Trolls are less widespread but they do have proximity on their side with the troll mountains in the western heartlands being near where the dwarves gain entry to the moonshae underdark.

I might come up with a twisted halfling monster corrupted by kazgoroth that is one of the evil Fey creatures on the islands.

I shall have to remember to limit kne monster many origins to rare or unique creatures only, or where isolation or unique circumstances warrant it.

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Keseril
Acolyte

Russia
1 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2019 :  10:34:58  Show Profile Send Keseril a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello! First of all, Gary Dallison, you did freaking great job! Moonshae is my favorite region for now and you played a big part in this.

Want to ask you. You said that you using original story but adding something from you own. All information here about locations and other stuffs is just yours implementation of things? Or is canon?
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2019 :  16:54:07  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kesseril, thank you for the very kind words, the moonshae are far from finished and I mostly do this for myself but it's always nice to hear that others get some mileage from it. So if you have any questions or anything you'd like to know more about or even any ideas yourself then just say so (especially spelling or grammar mistakes as my English is terrible - like most English people).

Now onto your question. My general approach is to take canon and twist it so that it is still the same but slightly different to commonly held opinions (little point in writing everything the same as has already been written), but I also like to expand the grey areas and what is written between the lines as much as I possibly can.

So almost everything I do is based, or distantly based (for things i have expanded on and then expanded my expansions) in canon lore. I try not to create things totally new unless there is a massive gap in the lore with nothing to fill it.

So norland is pretty empty, I've been forced to add locations to make it usable. There is no mention of orcs so I haven't added and orc nation there. There are however firbolgs on the island and some frost giants so I've added in ruins from a firbolg giant empire that is alluded to in the history of the region.

In moray there are orcs but no historic mention of them so I added in a portal from the orcgates affair of the red wizards that dumped them there. The 4e lore has lycanthropes overrunning the region so I've linked moray to a place in the feywild where an ancient Grimm creature (that I made up to explain the lycanthropy in the moonshae- not wanting to use a run of the mill werewolf) that has become trapped in the feywild. Moray also has no castle but three watchtower, so I added those watchtower into every ffolk settlement and then decided why moray had no castle despite a history of repeated raids by northmen. In the end I figured the northmen burned down the castle so much they stopped repairing it, so now i have a ruined castle and a place for treasure to be lost.

In some cases I have made stuff up, like the grimmulf and the heralds of the high king, all based on what I consider good ideas from people here, and to expand blanks in the lore or explain things the lore does not.

But generally it is all based from some stray bit of lore that I have twisted to make it slightly different (I'm rather proud of making the earth mother be an enemy of the druids who think they serve her - and in the adventure I plan to do, when the druids call on the children for help, the whole humanoid population is in danger as these super powers try to eradicate all humanoid life).

I'm more than happy to talk moonshae all day if you are running a campaign and need some inspiration, or you just like talking moonshae isles. However I have departed considerably from my first version in the alternate dimensions pdf I made and now work solely on the wordpress site (which is constantly work in progress.

Thanks again for looking at it and taking the time to say hi.

Gary

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2019 :  14:01:21  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Randomly looking over Black Wizard for lore. Not a single place or person in callidyrr is named outside those used directly in events for the plot which I understand is part of d&ds focused story telling, but I hate it.

All i know from callidyrr thanks to this novel is caer callidyrr, Doncaster, oroarke, Cyndre, and the assassin. It might as well have been set on the moon


On the plus side I now know there are 31 centres in corwell, and I have a few more clans and lords to detail that kingdom.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5552 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2019 :  22:51:33  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I always disliked those “could be set anywhere” novels. If they were writing a Star Wars novel, they would never have got away with that.

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2019 :  07:56:46  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It could probably be set in star wars without much work.

Maybe I'm spoiled by G R R Martin, but its jarring when the story never has any interaction with other people outside of the main story. It's almost as though all the characters are elitist snobs and refuse to talk to guards, servants, squirrels, etc.

Worse still is this novel has about 50 pages of Tristan and lord pontswain arguing like toddlers over who would be the best king.

I cant fathom why people enjoy reading the novels myself.


Anyway back to the moonshae isles. Again found those crannogs in the myrloch. I've decided they were built around -2000 dr by the first northmen to arrive on the moonshae isles. They were essentially enslaved by the leshay and used to fight in the first war against kazgoroth (they were the cannon fodder).
After that war the few surviving northmen fled and vowed never to return (saying the islands were cursed).

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2019 :  08:33:05  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Added a page for the organisation Heralds of the High King. They are my attempt to explain how the sword of cymrych hugh came to be in the big cave just waiting for Tristan to find (the heralds left it there for him as a test of his abilities)

They are led by the ghost of high queen allisynn whose spirit is bound to the magical harp she was playing when kazgoroth shattered it and dealt her a mortal blow.

The heralds are trying to restore the high kingdom and are always looking for potential candidates and testing them.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2019 :  21:11:59  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well i came across the Great Gark in 4e lore on the Dernall Forest. He is a goblin of sorts with dark fey and goblins at his disposal. So i decided to use my idea of twisted halflings (Great Gark is one of them), that made the halflings into evil, black, goblin like creatures.

These few surviving Goibhluin (sounded celtic ish) fled into the Feywild, but they are using actual goblins, that arrived from the mainland on ships, to scout and steal for them.

I also decided on making Doncastle the former abode of these halflings on Alaron, and where the Goibhluin retreated to before they fled into the Feywild. So beneath Doncastle are deep tunnels that lead to the Underdark and also have connections to the Feywild/Shadowfell.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2019 :  08:32:47  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gradually weaving bits of the story together now. So ordalf and urphania are twins and twins is a bad omen in Fey culture.

Ordalf was the leader and urphania was loyal and supportive, or so it seemed.

Then some sylph prophesies that ordalf will die in the claws of a beast, but that beast will also die, and it will free the People of the Moonshae Isles.

Then Kazgoroth the Beast appears and ordalf figures that Kazgoroth is the Beast that will slay her, so she creates the web of moon wells to forever imprison kazgoroth in a weakened form.

Unfortunately urphania falsified the vision or exploited it. She helped kazgoroth escape in the hope he would kill ordalf.

Urphania was discovered, stripped of her leshay powers, and exiled from karador.
In her exile she began stealing the soul gems that link ordalf soul to the moon wells and so ordalf pulls karador and the leshay into the feywild.

Urphania is now subtly helping and manipulating the pieces of kazgoroth. Helping him to return and helping pollute the moon wells which further weaken ordalf and will force her to return to stop kazgoroth. When all the moon wells are corrupted ordalf is mortal and will die so she must return and imprison him once again or kill him before he kills her.

Urphania hope's kazgoroth will win. If not she will help kill kazgoroth herself to win ordalf confidence back (everyone thinks urphania is dead at the moment), then she will kill her own sister and rule the leshay

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 21 May 2019 :  11:05:16  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Came to the mention of eladrin in the Moonshaes lore, still annoyed with the travesty that 4e did by altering eladrin into something else and elves into this new eladrin.


However, i've decided to mix the two together. I've come up with two branches (so far) of these humanoid fey creatures. The Selah-Drine and the Elah-Drine.

The Selah-Drine are the original, the most powerful, they are the lords of the Plane of Faeree, they are immortal and superpowerful. The LeShay belong to the Selah-Drine (so too did the beings that would become the Seldarine - hence the name similarity).

The Selah-Drine created the Elah-Drine in their own image, they are powerful and specialised in various aspects of nature (fire, ice, earth, wind, lightning, spring, summer, winter, etc). They are organised into tribes, the bralani, the ghaele, the firre, the tulani, etc.
The elves were once Elah-Drine. They escaped to Faerun and over time diminished in power as they were away from the Plane of Faeree.

So Karador will have Elahdrin but they will be of the various different groups from 2e and 3e. They look like elves (reading the 3e descriptions they say they look like elves), but they are more powerful and more fey like.

Elves are still elves, they were once eladrin many tens of thousands of years ago, but now they are just elves. The older elves are more powerful (as cormanthyr empire of elves alludes to - they can see magic, they live longer, etc) and the younger ones are more and more mixed with human blood so they are further diminished.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 21 May 2019 :  19:42:14  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Reaching the leshay and Fey parts of lore now. I've decided the leshay don't have kids, they are immortal and super powerful so if they had kids that were leshay they would quickly overrun the multi verse.

So any kids they have are lesser beings, the elahdrin.

So prince araithe is not ordalfs son. The Fey misunderstood the concept of son and heir when approximating their succession to human standards (or even elves) and so described him as prince, but really he is just the next most respected leshay.

I've decided prince araithe wants to be the most respected, so he is secretly trying to hasten ordalfs demise. He also doesn't like humans. He has Fey kidnapping human children to raise them as warriors (muubsidhe meaning slave fey) to do the fighting for the leshay when they return to the material plane.

At the end of the adventure I'm planning, karador will return and these armies of muubsidhe will spread out and abduct entire villages to swell their ranks. The muubsidhe are armed with plate mail and silver or cold iron swords (to better kill kazgoroth and his twisted fey army).
Basically the humans will be caught between two alien powers that want to use them as fodder in their armies.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5552 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2019 :  14:59:24  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just remembered this: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a

Thought you might be interested.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4671 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2019 :  15:07:29  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Always interested. Thank you George.

I did come across that recently, decided it should probably be placed on snowdown which has almost no mention of druids to explain their absence (half their membership lost fighting the malarites) and add in a new location to snowdown (the great druids former home).

Cheers for the lookout for more moonshae stuff.

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