Author |
Topic |
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2019 : 21:21:18
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After conversing with the experts (thanks George), there are several options for the llewyrr.
It would appear that the Llewyrrwood was home to a significant number of gold elves, which were magically powerful (normal for gold elves in ancient times) and had more than a few high mages among their number.
The Vyshaan begin attacking Illefarn and the Llewyrr flee west. GHoTR says that a large number of the llewyrr flee, but i'm guessing that is comparative for elves so perhaps 2000, which included a number of surviving high mages.
A huge storm sinks over half the llewyrr fleet and scatters the rest hundreds or thousands of miles off course. I'm imagining the Vyshaan called the storm to sink the secretly escaping llewyrr.
500 llewyrr wash up on the Moonshae Isles and establish synnoria. The high mages weave great magics to hide synnoria from the Vyshaan (and in so doing sacrifice themselves). Perhaps Synnoria was the highmage queen who sacrificed herself and thus gave her name to the realm.
I did find an odd name for gold elves in one realms sourcebook - Sunrise Elves. Perhaps i could use llewyrr as meaning sunrise in an ancient elven dialect.
I need a few elven houses to populate synnoria. Some possibilities from the north include House Hyshaanth - has a branch in Siluvanede that is all but extinct (its surviving member is now a senior member of the Eldreth Veluuthra House Evanara - Detailed in Evermeet, no mention of origin but is wise and insightful so could work. House Raerdrimne - Detailed in Evermeet, i chose this one because House Raerdrimne hasnt had a child born in centuries which is something common to Synnoria - perhaps an old curse of the Vyshaan.
Going to add in later migrations of elves from Siluvanede, Eaerlann, Illefarn (2, 3, 4 - there were a lot of Illefarns), to account for extra elven settlements on the Moonshaes (My Kamerynn makes elves never want to leave Synnoria)
Also noted that Evermeet has its own leviathan - Hamnuatha. So i'm going to give the leviathan of the Moonshaes a similar name, while the Leviathan from Elder Evils can be called just The Leviathan.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2019 : 20:34:28
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So i found this quote
quote: A majority of Illefarn's sun and moon elves went by ship to Evermeet during the long Crown Wars, where they had a profound influence on that island's culture, religion, philosophy, and arts. Some elves even say that Illefarn founded all that Evermeet would later become. Some moon elves migrated to Evereska, where they had much the same effect. Most wood elves fled south during the height of the Fifth Crown War or west to the Moonshaes. The dwarves scattered, most heading north to found their own enclaves and join their brethren in battling the orc hordes that poured forth in an endless tide
Gives me lots of ideas for Evermeet.
Does anyone know if there is a date of first settlement for Evermeet (i know it was created in -17600 DR) and if there was any communication with the mainland.
I'm asking because originally Faerun included all the continents joined together. then the sundering broke that land apart and created Evermeet, but it worked backwards and forwards in time so the elves would never have known it worked. They cast a ritual to create a sanctuary and for everyone else nothing appeared to happen, only the casters would be aware what they did and why (for everyone else it had always been this way) and most high magic rituals of this magnitude inflict death or madness upon the casters.
Then there is no mention of evermeet in the histories until -9800 DR when the Vyshaan Empire begin colonisation and settlement of the isle, which i presume to be the first mention of any attempted settlement.
I'm asking myself why such a gap and the only thing i can think of is nobody knew it had been created except for the casters, and they probably became babbling nutters who spouted prophecies and words (like Evermeet).
I'm guessing that millennia later the vyshaan found out about it (perhaps illefarn had the kiira of the high mages who cast the sundering and so when the Vyshaan conquered illefarn they discovered the prophecies and figured it out). Then the Vyshaan Empire begin building a huge fleet to try and find and settle the island, but the Illefarni elves in their ghetto escape and steal the fleet.
The Vyshaan Empire use their high mages to form a great storm that devastates over half the fleeing illefarni elves (mostly the ships containing the sun elves) and scatter the other ships.
Some moon elves and sun elven ships reach evermeet. The survivors of the wrecked ships land on the Moonshaes. Other lost ships end up anywhere else. A century later the Vyshaan rebuild their fleet and colonise Evermeet (cue much conflict on Evermeet).
That accounts for Illefarni sun elves and moon elves settling evermeet and how sun elves get to the Moonshaes. All i need is to account for wood elves arriving in the Moonshae Isles around -9000 DR (during the fifth crown wars). Now i'm assuming Wood Elves actually means wood elves and not wild elves (the 1e campaign setting referred to wood elves as wild elves). Wood elves are formed from the mixing of other elven groups and occured in the wake of the crown wars but im guessing also during.
So Keltormir and Illefarn emerge intact so i will assume they are much less damaged than the others (occupied rather than slaughtered). Shantel Othreier is destroyed and so is Aryvandaar so i'm going to guess that much devastation occurred in the destruction of those realms and many elves made homeless and banded together giving rise to wood elves.
I'm thinking that wood elves from Aryvandaar is slightly more interesting, they may not be welcome in Synnoria and may not even be able to find it, so establish another city on a different island (Kadish perhaps). |
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Alternate Realms Site |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2019 : 01:09:15
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I think you need to read/skim Elaine's "Evermeet" novel.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2019 : 01:38:06
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Another possible source of elven migration to the Moonshaes is the portal that is mentioned in one of the novels. This is designed as an escape route for elves on the mainland in times of great peril (e.g. getting attacked by Ityak-Ortheel, the Elf-Eater).
IIRC, Synnoria acts as a kind of way-station for elves escaping to Evermeet via this portal system. Perhaps some of them decide to stay rather than continuing on to Evermeet. |
Edited by - BenN on 28 Feb 2019 01:38:47 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2019 : 09:41:17
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Elaine's 'Evermeet' is night & day better than the Moonshae novels. There is a ton of lore, and as far as I'm concerned is the closest thing to Tolkien that there is among the FR novels (including Ed's). |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2019 : 11:28:07
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Elaine has long stated that the “historical” parts of Evermeet are narratives from sources such as Danilo and aren’t an accurate reflection of the history of the elves in the Realms from a date/event point of view.
— George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2019 : 23:35:14
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quote: Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well impatiently i searched the novel for Starleaf and Tree of Souls and was disappointed to find no further mention.
So first thought is did Starleaf remain on Evermeet with the Tree of Souls after casting the Sundering. If so then how did any other elves find out about Evermeet (only she saw it - and i dont do the god think, getting a vision of an island in the ocean isnt going to mean much).
So either Starleaf was sent back to Faerun or some remnants of the casting remained on Faerun - perhaps taking the form of gemstone acorns that contained fragments of the souls of the high mages. By communing with these gems the elves could learn of Evermeet, but only by collecting many of them together could they learn its location.
I'll have to spend some time developing the idea, but the Evermeet novel seems to me to be the history of a version of Toril that is no longer real (having been eliminated by the actions of the elves themselves).
Two hundred elves heading to Evermeet does not seem likely, and the pleasant portrayal of Aryvandaar is wrong on so many levels. But if its an alternate version i can rewrite much of it (200 nobles surviving the trip would happily explain the numbers quoted).
In summary, nice read, i've gotten what i need after 76 pages, plenty of ideas to support an alternate reality vision which is what i'm making anyway.
So the Tower they cast the Sundering in can be somewhere in the middle of the ocean (the other end of the gate used by the shalarin might work), or perhaps on Evermeet itself. Atornash i'm tempted to place in Dambrath in the Bay of Dolphins. Shalarion will now be strewn across the ocean floor. Elves in Maztica i can now explain by those on the portion of land ripped from the one continent.
Yes, if you want a head-scratching exercise in geography, try and read "Evermeet" in that context. And yes, Aryvandaar is portrayed in a very peculiar light given the lore. The strange part is that the novel was released in August 1998 and the Cormanthyr sourcebook in March 1998. While I know Elaine had likely written the novel a way before the publishing date, it's a fair indictment on TSR Books v. TSR games to have so little communication.
Not a surprise really. Looking back, I've always considered TSR/WotC Books department to be the greatest villain of the Realms!
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2019 : 15:25:07
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quote: Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Still reading Darkwalker. So much about the novel that annoys the bejeesus out of me.
A few notes on bits of lore.
Newt is 784 years old, which means he was born around 560/561 DR. Why on earth does the dragon live in the Fens when he is quite obviously starved of attention in such a remote region filled only with monsters with no sense of humour.
I'm thinking perhaps if Newt is the guardian or related to the guardian of the Fens of the Fallon, but then i've also got faerie dragons as just a tiny manifestation of proper dragons that live on the Faeree Plane.
Next is the Big Cave. What on earth is the Big Cave. Its a huge stone fortress filled with Firbolg and other monsters. It has stout walls, stone gargoyles, even sewage pipes, all sized for very large individuals.
The firbolg that live their certainly didnt build it. The stonework might be dwarven, but its sized for giants, it could be ancient more advanced firbolg built the fortress.
The odd fish/reptile they fought in the sewers i'm thinking i might make it be a marl. I've got a few of them in the Korinn Archipelago and i'm thinking that i might have them occupy underground tunnels and caverns across the Moonshae Isles.
I always assumed it was the earlier, non-corrupted and debased firbolg who built it.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2019 : 15:43:22
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I've certainly got those, I've tried developing an entire civilisation for them in the distant past.
However, something that puzzles me is the treasure hoard. It's many times the wealth of the ffolk kings, it contains crystal chalices, jeweller rings, chokers, a huge pile of coins.
All these things seem a bit out of reach of the firbolg. I get that they got the sword of cymrych high from the high king they slew, and the torque probably came from a druid, maybe even a cup or ring from passing merchants, but there sheer number of things indicates it is out of reach of the kings of Cordell, even if they spent centuries acquiring it I'm not sure they could amass that much wealth.
Then there is the purpose of the fortress and it's location.
Its in the middle of a swamp and it's near the Moonwell, possibly the major Moonwell of the myrloch vale. I'm not sure the elves would be happy at such a place being built.
I guess I'm trying to rationalise the obvious use of a fantasy trope. Friend gets taken by monsters, heroes go to monsters lair and discover great magic.
The fortress is not explained or described in any way which really bugs me (going from the story it's a big stone square with 2 doors which is an awful design).
I'm thinking of putting the fortress next to the highland mountains (Where they firbolg mine the coal) and make it a former exposed Dragon lair which had the fortress built atop it. That would explain the huge hoard (dragons don't have to get their treasure locally). |
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Alternate Realms Site |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2019 : 19:08:21
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Gold fever is an odd illness. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2019 : 20:41:20
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My first post was a bit of sarcasm; but thinking more deeply...
Perhaps there is a magical compulsion affixed to gold. In a universe where magic is real; perhaps the gold itself is a quasi-magical substance that creatures are simply drawn to. Perhaps the same with all Noble Metals... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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