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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4617 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2014 :  20:07:20  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I'm looking for all things Moonshae. I've read the Moonshae book, the Halls of the High King adventure, Treasure Hunt adventure, Dragon 405, Dungeon 196, Dragon 362.

Are there any other Moonshae mentions anywhere in any other sourcebooks or magazines? Even if its only half relevant to the Moonshae such as Grond Peaksmasher, is he featured in any articles.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of concrete information about the area. I have an idea for an alternate take but would prefer it if there were a bit more info to go on.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 25 Nov 2014 :  21:19:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There have been two trilogies and at least one standalone novel set there... I know you avoid novels (though I don't understand why), but you're missing one of the best sources of info by ignoring them.

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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3724 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  00:46:57  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It would be really neat if someone would break down the novels into "Lore Nuggets" to be picked apart

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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
674 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  01:51:38  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is a TON of lore in those trilogies....and it's so detailed and unique to the Moonshae's it would be really difficult and long to go through 6 books and break down the tasty bits.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3724 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  03:17:58  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77

There is a TON of lore in those trilogies....and it's so detailed and unique to the Moonshae's it would be really difficult and long to go through 6 books and break down the tasty bits.



I've read them (years ago for some) and yes it would be hard; BUT I would like to see something along the lines of the wonderful Atlas of the Forgotten Realms by my hero Karen Fonstad!

She had some of the information there; so Dazzlerdal, you should look in that book too...it gives some pretty awesome details.

AD&D for me!
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1841 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  05:18:15  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I'm looking for all things Moonshae. I've read the Moonshae book, the Halls of the High King adventure, Treasure Hunt adventure, Dragon 405, Dungeon 196, Dragon 362.


I assume you meant to also include the blurbs in the various campaign setting books?
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1841 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  05:26:42  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Races of Faerun has a paragraph on the Ffolk.
Brian James wrote an article on Sarifal in Dragon #376.
There's also probably some Moonshae references in the Grand History.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4617 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  09:40:45  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Marvellous, Races of Faerun and Dragon 376 got and read.

GHoTR i've already consulted and its usually my first port of call.


What i'm missing is the cultural feel and society of the Ffolk and the Moonshaes. They arent really delivered in the sourcebooks in any great measure and the books would only give me one authors interpretation mostly focused on events that i wont be following anyway.

I can get the Northmen quite easy, they are obviously norse inspired and so are warlike raiders first and foremost mirroring the viking invasion of britain in the 9th century (although bizarrely the Northmen are bringing organised religion with them when in real world history the saxons were christian and helped bring religion to the norse).

I gather the Ffolk are meant to be Celtic but i have no idea really what Celtic society was like (even though i'm english and so should have some idea). All i can gather is the High King situation is a bit like Ireland's High King where it was a title with little power and everyone seemed to have a claim on it.

I'm thinking the Ffolk are hard working largely subsistence farmers that like celebrating with folk festivals (dancing, beer, music). They are all able to wield a sword and bow to some degree. The cantrevs (towns) are nominally loyal to their king (which changes frequently) but maintain a sizable retinue that is called upon regularly to turn back invaders, fight monsters, and help the king (or fight against him).

However none of this is really unique to the Moonshae apart from the large numbers of small kingdoms in a relatively confined area that are all allied to varying degrees in different factions (northmen ffolk, religion druid, High King Independent, etc).

So what is it that makes the Moonshaes unique?



I've worked out the alternate version of history. I'm not going to include the Darkwalker trilogy events but allow players to take part in the Kazgoroth storyline which will unfold similarly but with a twist. What's missing is the detail. There are tons of little towns and locations in the Moonshae but almost none of them are detailed in sourcebooks (and i can't imagine they are mentioned in the novels either in any great detail)

The thirteen mages of the High King seem quite important and all appear to be acting on their own interests. The Cult of the Dragon have a sizable presence in the Moonshae and probably have one of their own in the mages council. Flamsterd has definitely been influencing things for centuries although what his goal is i cannot guess. Iyachtu Xvim's involvement seems quite random but it did reveal that his means of travel is also random and that his appearances in the realms may have been largely by accident.
The various churches of Faerun all seem to want to expand into the Moonshae as well for whatever reason.




What was the deal with Gotha. Why did Talos bother imprisoning him for millenia to turn him into a dracolich only to lend him to some mad druid on the Moonshae and get him killed (and killing a dracolich requires the destruction of his phylactery so he must have been carrying it with or near him when he died). Seems like a waste of an investment without any real purpose.

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1423 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  16:03:31  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While writing Under Illefarn Anew, I had to handle "Gwydion pen Dafwyd, apprentice of Mab". I decided to make Gwydion a Male old Tethyrian human wizard 3/ druid 3 / arcane hierophant 5. I think the arcane hierophant prestige class (Races of the Wild) is a good way to make Moonshae spellcasters unique and more true to the setting. Add the "Magic of the Land" feat from Races of the Wild, and I think you start to really get the feel for the setting.

Here's a write-up I did of a locale along the Trade Way that has some implications for the Moonshaes as well.

Alicorn Tower of Mab
=============
The Alicorn Tower of Mab sits astride a granite plug, north of the Way Inn, some ten miles east of the Trade Way. This slender, curving spire resembles the spiral horn of a unicorn and flickers with blue faerie fire when bathed in moonlight. The tower has no windows or battlements, and the only apparent means of entry is a rune-carved door built into the rockface directly below the tower.
Mab (NG male Tethyrian wizard 3 / druid 3 / arcane hierophantRoW 12) was born in the kingdom of Callidyrr on the island of Alaron in the Moonshae Isles in the Year of the Black Wind (1262 DR). He rose to a senior position on the High King’s Council of Mages, only to be accused of treason, stripped of his spellbooks, and banished in the Year of the Broken Helm (1302 DR). After making his way to Waterdeep aboard a caravel, accompanied only by his ward, Gwydion pen Dafwyd, Mab was given an audience at Blackstaff Tower with Khelben Arunsun, who had been warned of his impending arrival by the reclusive archmage, Flamsterd. (Flamsterd, who hailed from the City of Splendors, could not disobey the order of the High King, but felt Mab did not deserve his banishment and reached out to the Blackstaff on his behalf.) Khelben then recommended Mab for the then vacant position of Court Wizard of Daggerford, and provided him with a set of spelltomes and other items of magic necessary to serve in that position.
Mab served as Court Wizard of Daggerford until his retirement in the Year of the Blue Flame (1327 DR), serving as the Blackstaff’s eyes and ears in Daggerford. After fashioning the Alicorn Tower, Mab withdrew to pursue his studies, the nature of which is mysterious even to Gwydion. No one, including the current ducal court wizard, has spoken to Mab in over a decade, leading many to believe he has died or vanished. Curiously, the Alicorn Tower of Mab was undisturbed during the recent Dragonspear War, leading some to speculate that Mab’s wards remain in place, masking whatever dark secrets lurk within. Gwydion refuses to speak of his former master, suggesting some sort of breach (or at least a sense of pique on Gwydion’s part) between Mab and his former ward.


Hope that helps. If it would help bring non-Moonshaes characters to the Moonshae Isles for your campaign, you could always say they found a one-way portal in the depths of the Alicorn Tower of Mab that deposited them in a handy location in the Moonshaes.

--Eric

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Marvellous, Races of Faerun and Dragon 376 got and read.

GHoTR i've already consulted and its usually my first port of call.


What i'm missing is the cultural feel and society of the Ffolk and the Moonshaes. They arent really delivered in the sourcebooks in any great measure and the books would only give me one authors interpretation mostly focused on events that i wont be following anyway.

I can get the Northmen quite easy, they are obviously norse inspired and so are warlike raiders first and foremost mirroring the viking invasion of britain in the 9th century (although bizarrely the Northmen are bringing organised religion with them when in real world history the saxons were christian and helped bring religion to the norse).

I gather the Ffolk are meant to be Celtic but i have no idea really what Celtic society was like (even though i'm english and so should have some idea). All i can gather is the High King situation is a bit like Ireland's High King where it was a title with little power and everyone seemed to have a claim on it.

I'm thinking the Ffolk are hard working largely subsistence farmers that like celebrating with folk festivals (dancing, beer, music). They are all able to wield a sword and bow to some degree. The cantrevs (towns) are nominally loyal to their king (which changes frequently) but maintain a sizable retinue that is called upon regularly to turn back invaders, fight monsters, and help the king (or fight against him).

However none of this is really unique to the Moonshae apart from the large numbers of small kingdoms in a relatively confined area that are all allied to varying degrees in different factions (northmen ffolk, religion druid, High King Independent, etc).

So what is it that makes the Moonshaes unique?



I've worked out the alternate version of history. I'm not going to include the Darkwalker trilogy events but allow players to take part in the Kazgoroth storyline which will unfold similarly but with a twist. What's missing is the detail. There are tons of little towns and locations in the Moonshae but almost none of them are detailed in sourcebooks (and i can't imagine they are mentioned in the novels either in any great detail)

The thirteen mages of the High King seem quite important and all appear to be acting on their own interests. The Cult of the Dragon have a sizable presence in the Moonshae and probably have one of their own in the mages council. Flamsterd has definitely been influencing things for centuries although what his goal is i cannot guess. Iyachtu Xvim's involvement seems quite random but it did reveal that his means of travel is also random and that his appearances in the realms may have been largely by accident.
The various churches of Faerun all seem to want to expand into the Moonshae as well for whatever reason.




What was the deal with Gotha. Why did Talos bother imprisoning him for millenia to turn him into a dracolich only to lend him to some mad druid on the Moonshae and get him killed (and killing a dracolich requires the destruction of his phylactery so he must have been carrying it with or near him when he died). Seems like a waste of an investment without any real purpose.


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1423 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  16:05:12  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here are some 3.5e stat blocks. You could file off the names and reuse them as well.

Gwydion pen Dafwyd CR 11
Male old Tethyrian human wizard 3/ druid 3 / arcane hierophantRoW 5
LN Medium humanoid (human)
Init -1; Senses Listen +11 (+13 near companion familiar), Spot +11 (+13 near companion familiar)
Languages Chondathan, Common (Calant dialect), Draconic, Druidic, Illuskan, Elven, Sylvan
AC 18, touch 9, flat-footed 18
(-1 Dex, +9 armor)
hp 18 (11 HD)
Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +13
Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee quarterstaff +3 (1d6-3)
Base Atk +6; Grp +3
Special Actions spontaneous casting (summon nature’s ally
spells), wild shape 3/day (8 hours, Small, Medium, or Large)
Druid Spells Prepared (CL 11th)
4th—bite of the wearboar*, flame strike (DC 17)
3rd—call lightning (DC 16), entangling staff* (DC 16), greater magic fang, weather eye*
2nd—cat’s grace (DC 15), fog cloud, gust of wind (DC 15), one with the land*
1st—cure light wounds x2 (DC 14), faerie fire, longstrider, speak with animals
0th—dawn*, detect poison x2, light, purify food and drink (DC 13), read magic
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 11th)
4th—detect scrying, scrying (DC 18), fire shield
3rd—arcane sight, dispel magic, fireball (DC 17), lightning bolt (DC 17)
2nd—detect thoughts (DC 16), darkvision (DC 16), knock, whispering wind
1st—alarm, mage armor (DC 15), magic missile, thunderhead*, unseen servant
0th—amanuensis*, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound (DC 14)
Abilities Str 5, Dex 9, Con 7, Int 18, Wis 17, Cha 15
SQ channel animal (2/day), companion familiar (dire wolf), ignore arcane spell failure, trackless step, wild empathy +7, woodland stride
Feats AlertnessB, Battle CasterCArc, Magic of the LandRoW, Natural Spell, Practiced SpellcasterCArc (druid), Practiced SpellcasterCArc (wizard), Scribe Scroll
Skills Concentration +12, Decipher Script +10, Diplomacy +12, Gather Information +4, Handle Animal +10, Knowledge (arcana) +15, Knowledge (local—Sword Coast) +10, Knowledge (nature) +20, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +10, Knowledge (the planes) +10, Listen +11 (+13 near companion familiar), Ride +9, Spellcraft +20, Spot +11 (+13 near companion familiar), Survival +8 (+10 aboveground, other planes)
Possessions Gwydion’s workbook*, runestaff of the Earthmother*, scales of the Sacred Grove*
Spellbooks In addition to his workbook, Gwydion pen Dafwyd has access to a large range of spells, thanks to the numerous spellbooks he keeps in Castle Daggerford.
Channel Animal (Sp) Gwydion can establish a magical conduit between himself and a single animal that he can touch (including his familiar companion). For each use of this class feature, a spell you cast whose range is touch or greater can originate from the animal instead of from Gwydion, provided that Gwydion has line of sight and line of effect to the animal. The spell’s line of effect then extends from the animal to the target based on the senses of the animal, not Gwydion.
Gwydion can also use this power to deliver touch spells through the animal. Once he casts the spell, the animal is considered to be holding the charge for the spell (see page 176 of the Player’s Handbook).
Ignore Arcane Spell Failure When casting an arcane spell, Gwydion can ignore the arcane spell failure chance for any nonmetallic light or medium armor (e.g. padded, leather, or hide armor).
Trackless Step (Ex) Gwydion leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. He may choose to leave a trail if so desired.
Wild Empathy (Ex) Gwydion can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.
Gwydion can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a -4 penalty on the check.
Wild Shape (Su) Gwydion can turn himself into any Small, Medium, or Large animal and back again thrice per day. His options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 8 hours, or until he changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Each time he uses wild shape, he regains lost hit points as if he had rested for the night.
Any gear worn or carried by Gwydion melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. (Note the beastskin ability of his armor allows him to benefit from its armor bonus at the cost of 1 wild shape usage.) When he reverts to his true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on his body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at the druid's feet.
The form chosen must be that of an animal Gwydion is familiar with.
Gwydion loses his ability to speak while in animal form because he is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but he can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as his new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)
Woodland Stride (Ex) Gwydion may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect him.
Gwydion’s Workbook as above plus 0—all others; 1st—erase, feather fall, identify; 2nd—arcane lock, obscure object, scorching ray, summon monster II; 3rd—clairaudience/clairvoyance, summon monster III, tongues; 4th—dimensional anchor, ice storm, stoneskin, summon monster IV, wall of fire.
Cuhullin CR —
Gwydion pen Dafwyd’s Dire Wolf Companion Familiar
N Large magical beast
Init +3; Senses low-light vision, scent, Listen +7, Spot +7
Language speak with master, speak with wolves
AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 12
(-1 size, +2 Dex, +7 natural)
hp 60 (8 HD)
Fort +9, Ref +9, Will +3; improved evasion
Speed 50 ft. (10 squares)
Melee bite +14 (1d8+12)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +6; Grp +18
Abilities Str 27, Dex 17, Con 17, Int 9, Wis 12, Cha 10
SQ deliver touch spells, empathic link, share spells, tricks
Feats Alertness, Run, TrackB, Weapon Focus (bite)
Skills Hide +5, Listen +7, Move Silently +5, Spot +7, Survival +2 (+6 tracking by scent)
Trip (Ex) If Cuhullin hits with his bite attack, he can attempt to trip his opponent (+11 check modifier) as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the Cuhullin.
Deliver Touch Spells (Su) Cuhullin can deliver touch spells for his master. If Gwydion and Cuhullin are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, Gwydion can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master could. If Gwydion casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.
Empathic Link (Su) Gwydion has an empathic link with Cuhullin out to a distance of up to 1 mile. Gwydion cannot see through the familiar’s eyes, but they can communicate empathically. Because of the limited nature of the link, only general emotional content (such as fear, hunger, happiness, curiosity) can be communicated. Even intelligent familiars see the world differently from humans, so misunderstandings are always possible.
Improved Evasion (Ex) When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, Cuhullin takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage even if the saving throw fails.
Share Spells (Ex) At Gwydion’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts upon himself also affect Cuhullin. The dire wolf must be within 5 feet of him at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting Cuhullin if the dire wolf moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect him again, even if it returns to Gwydion before the duration expires.
Additionally, Gwydion may cast a spell with a target of "You" on Cuhullin (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself. Gwydion and Cuhullin can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion’s type (magical beast).
Speak with Master (Ex) Gwydion and Cuhullin can communicate verbally as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help.
Speak with Wolves (Ex) Cuhullin can communicate with all manner of wolves (including dire wolves, worgs, wolves, and winter wolves). Such communication is limited by the intelligence of the conversing creatures.


--Eric

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4617 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  16:31:03  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow the Forgotten Realms Atlas does contain a lot of info on the Moonshaes. Very handy.


I think i've collected just about all the info on the Moonshaes that is out there.

A few odd quotes below

quote:
Caer Callidyrr is a leftover of a previous civilisation’s peak, a mighty castle built on the island of Alaron above a sprawling port city.


quote:
Corwell is the oldest kingdom of the Ffolk upon the Moonshaes. The island of Gwynneth was the first to be settled by humans, although its population fell behind that of the more hospitable island of Alaron.
The kingdom was founded by the greatest hero of the Ffolk, Cymrych Hugh, before that ruler became High King and moved his seat of government to Callidyrr. Now Corwell is the second largest realm of the Ffolk, after Callidyrr.




quote:
An ancient fortress in the depths of Llyrath Forest that has been long abandoned. It is a castle made of skulls, erected some time after the reign of Cymrych Hugh to commemorate a great victory over the Northmen.


quote:
Cauldron of Doom: This unique and potent item was cast by an ancient blacksmith under the watchful eye of the Beast, Kazgoroth.
Its last rumoured location was the Castle of Skulls in Llyrath Forest on the island of Gwynneth.


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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1423 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  16:38:18  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well if you won't read the Moonshae novels then can I recommend the Chronicles of Prydain? Many of the magic items in FR2 are clearly riffing off that classic series. The novels read like a ready made D&D campaign set in the Moonshaes.

--Eric

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1423 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  16:44:52  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, thought of another thing. Ed wrote an Realmslore nugget about a Chansreena (princess) from Ormpur in an old Polyhedron magazine. That "Current Clack" was repeated in FA1 - Halls of the High King. I added more detail in Serpent Kingdoms, page 100-101, and 103-104.

--Eric

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4617 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  16:52:22  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Excellent stuff Eric, I'll add those to the collection of lore.

I'm starting to get a picture of petty kingdoms and constant fighting.

It looks like the Ffolk and Northmen build kingdoms only to have them separate after their death (more immediately for Northmen, later for the Ffolk) then build them up again in an endless game of dynastic Risk.

There is mention of battles between the Ffolk and the elves and the first few kings of Corwell (even though one is named Callidyrr) appear to have died battling the Llewyrr and took the lands from them.

Some things that intrigue me most are.

Caer Callidyrr being a leftover of a previous civilisations peak. The mighty castle has tall spires and white granite walls, it is huge and covers 3 hill tops.

So Caer Callidyrr has several options. It could be a Llewyrr castle, a dwarf castle, a giant castle, or a fey castle. Then there are outside possibilities like Imaskari, or even the Shoon who had outposts on the Nelanther Isles

Its stone nature says dwarf, the tall spires say elf, the size of it says giant. Which one could it be. I figure the white granite stone is a clue but to what.



The Cauldron of Doom is an interesting item. Supposedly cast under Kazgoroth's gaze that means it was made either around -2000 DR or 200 DR when Kazgoroth appeared.

However it is currently in the Castle of Skulls which was made after Cymrych Hugh's death and so either the High King Gwylloch found the Cauldron and took it with him to his new castle (which drove him mad). Or Kazgoroth has appeared in the Moonshae many more times than we know and may not have been killed at all by Cymrych Hugh.


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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4617 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  16:53:22  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ooh, i will check out Polyhedron and Serpent Kingdoms as well, thanks for the pointer.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

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Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  16:55:12  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know of a bit of Moonshae lore EVERYONE overlooks.

In the Spelljammer supplement Realmspace, check-out the lore on pg.55 - Caer Windlauer.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

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Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  16:55:57  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Ooh, i will check out Polyhedron and Serpent Kingdoms as well, thanks for the pointer.



The Polyhedron nugget was identical to what was printed in FA1, so probably not worth finding.

The Cauldron of Doom and Castle of Skulls are straight out of the Chronicles of Prydain. And Chronicles of Prydain does a good job giving a sense of what I imagine the Ffolk to be like.

--Eric

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Edited by - ericlboyd on 26 Nov 2014 17:01:51
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  17:04:42  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Im not going to ask how the Ffolk managed to create a castle in space but i will check out that book when i get home as well.


I'm leaning towards turning the Moonshaes Isles into a people versus nature struggle but more extreme than what is current.

So the druids claim to be working for the Earthmother but in reality it is a sham (one not even they are aware of). The Children are like the Earthmother's immune system and are spewed out every time a new lifeform invades her in an attempt to cleanse herself of the infection.

Of course that doesnt mean the children all work together, they work in different ways towards different goals and are indeed separate entities with their own agendas.

I've found a few more Children to add to the list. The Shadow Hunt, and a huge bear that i might call Rendar the Bear because of a stray mention in Malar's writeup in Faiths and Pantheons.

I'm gonna read up on some Celtic myths and legends first though and try and get a feel for it that way (internet reading of course).

I wonder if any relatives of Uthgar ever came this way.

And who made the sword of Cymrych Hugh, Elves perhaps?

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  17:06:26  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll try and see if i have a copy of the chronicles of prydain, but its unlikely.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

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Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  17:10:16  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Im not going to ask how the Ffolk managed to create a castle in space but I will check out that book when I get home as well.
A VERY poorly made wish.

I'm not saying the lore is great (I don't really care for most SJ stuff), but its THERE, and thats all I am saying. I have to keep track of FR geography, no matter where it winds up.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

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Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  17:11:13  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I'll try and see if i have a copy of the chronicles of prydain, but its unlikely.



http://prydain.wikia.com/

might help.

--Eric

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  17:34:56  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I know of a bit of Moonshae lore EVERYONE overlooks.

In the Spelljammer supplement Realmspace, check-out the lore on pg.55 - Caer Windlauer.



That's one of the things I deliberately overlook, and it's one of the reasons I tend to discount anything directly pertaining to Toril, in that supplement... I do love Realmspace, but that's another of the many bits of lore in that book that is utterly unsupported by anything else. Nowhere else is there mention of the castle, the group of assassins, or the abrupt disappearance of a castle -- and the latter, at least, should have been notable enough to get mention elsewhere.

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Markustay
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Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  17:45:22  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My guess is that the wish - which was designed to obscure things - also managed to somehow alter people's perceptions, a'la how Ravenloft works (so no-one in the Moonshaes today recall the castle, or anything about it). His family clearly forgot who they were. It did use up both wishes in order to fulfill the requirements, so I would say it probably had the power to do that.

Like I said, no great lore, but its there, for what its worth. It would be fairly simple to build on that little bit and turn it into something juicy.

It would also be easy to return it home, if WotC wishes to acknowledge that bit of lore, with all the oddness that has occurred since then. It would be small potatoes compared to all the others things that got shifted-about.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  19:11:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

My guess is that the wish - which was designed to obscure things - also managed to somehow alter people's perceptions, a'la how Ravenloft works (so no-one in the Moonshaes today recall the castle, or anything about it). His family clearly forgot who they were. It did use up both wishes in order to fulfill the requirements, so I would say it probably had the power to do that.

Like I said, no great lore, but its there, for what its worth. It would be fairly simple to build on that little bit and turn it into something juicy.

It would also be easy to return it home, if WotC wishes to acknowledge that bit of lore, with all the oddness that has occurred since then. It would be small potatoes compared to all the others things that got shifted-about.



Even a passing mention to the assassin's guild and a mysteriously vanished castle would be sufficient to reconcile the lore. It wouldn't even be a retcon, so long as they were careful with it.

But that whole thing illustrates why I disregard FR references in that book. With the exception of the illusion on Selűne, nothing in the book that deals directly with Toril is backed up in Realms-specific material (and the reference to the illusion was a much-later nod from Brian R James to SJ, as I recall).

As much as I love Spelljammer -- it was my first love among D&D settings -- the SJ material that deals with other published campaign settings can be problematic, at best.

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Ayrik
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Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  23:11:22  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It seems doubtful that a Wish could obscure lore from being accessed by a DM. It seems equally unlikely that PCs and NPCs should have access to Wish-hidden lore unless extraordinary circumstances applied.

Perhaps a Wish can only have such effects on a local world - in this case, Toril - and does not have sufficient power to affect things on a greater magnitude - in this case, all of Realmspace. Or perhaps the parameters of the spell (the exact wording) were defined in a suboptimal fashion. Perhaps a Wish cannot last forever, even spells like Permanency begin to flicker, fail, and dimish after millennia. Even mythals and mythallars fail after great periods of time, especially when their energies are depleted under high-duty loads. The nature of Wishes is (and has been) better discussed in other scrolls.

All that being said - sorry, Woolyman - its fair to assess the general quality and consistency of Realmslore within Spelljammer products as being quite inferior. Too many random little problems which dont fit into real Realmslore. Good for a passing traveller who might come upon the Realms (or upon a spacebound Realms character), good for a casual interface, not good for accurate emulation.

[/Ayrik]
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 27 Nov 2014 :  09:41:47  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well the Spelljamming reference I'm fine with, I'm just going to shunt it into the past (I realise it said recently but it doesn't fit).

The name of the person in the Realmspace book is more Ffolk than Northman, his desire for safety and solitude may well have manifested out of the troubles Oman's Island was experiencing at the time so he could have been a minor lordling of Oman's Island (or indeed the King since Ironkeep was built around a small Ffolk outpost and so didn't exist until the Northmen invaded). He may have seceded from the High Kings rule at some point and will have been attacked by Northmen before they came to own the island.

So placing his rule sometime between 256 DR and 467 DR and his keep disappeared leaving Oman's Island somewhat less defended and open to conquest.

The lack of mention of the Dark Moon can be put down to the lack of information on the Moonshaes as a whole. I'm pretty sure I have collected every reference and it is still rather sparse. I've got less than a handful of organisations, a similar number of important NPCs with anything written about them and most of the locations were detailed in 4th edition quite bizarrely.

I'm going to make them lycanthropes that plague the Northmen of Oman's Isle only.




I think I can begin on a timeline for the Moonshaes. Unfortunately there isn't much to go on officially so most of it will be made up. From what I can glean of the chronicles of Prydain Celtic mythology is not the High Magic setting like the rest of FR. It is normal people striving against the occasional monster and each other. Those few magicians come to dominate society because there are few who can match them.


A few things im still musing on.

Caer Callidyr could possibly be a left over of Netheril's archwizards. Helbrester was all tall spires and so is Iriaebor, both of which could have been built by a wizard or two fleeing Netheril before or after its fall. As with other Netherese areas it is not hard to imagine they wiped themselves out in petty arguments before the Ffolk arrived, maybe the elves destroyed them.


I wonder were Flamsterd came from. He seems to have been around and known in 299 FR, perhaps he was a court mage of the Talfir (his name is certainly Ffolk sounding. At some point he must have left for Waterdeep because he came across a spell book called the Wizard's Workbook and sold the spells contained therein in Waterdeep to fund his purchase of the Island of Flamsterd.

As for his motives they appear to be just the accumulation and research of magic but I wonder if it is not also to preserve the Ffolk who are pretty much the last remnants of Talfir stock in the realms and likely his distant family.






Brief history appears that Kazgoroth weakened the elves and dwarves enough so that when the Ffolk arrived they push the elves out of Corwell and Callidyrr before allying with them against Kazgoroth once again.

Then the Northmen arrive, gradually take the islands off the Ffolk and cue lots of wars between the two people until the breakup of the High Kingdom of the Moonshae.

Also need a fight between sahuagin and aquatic elves which involves a lord of Corwell and leads to the create of the Lands Under Water just south of Corwell.

At some point the Council of Mages arrive probably in response to the wizard Cymbre and Amye (hire mages to fight mages). This council then become the major players in that kingdom.

Not much to go on but im sure it can be fleshed out with the appearance of a dragon, maybe some enormous and vicious animals, fey goings on, and rare items of magical power. But mostly just Ffolk and Northmen fighting each other and themselves.

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