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PhluXx
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2014 :  15:42:26  Show Profile Send PhluXx a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
What do we know of Neverwinter prior to Lord Nasher? When was the city founded and although it is said to have grown in population during his reign, what was the population size it grew from? Also most importantly, who was Lord of Neverwinter prior to him, or even prior to that, do we have any names?

hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1114 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2014 :  16:32:39  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Neverwinter was originally called Eigersstor and it was founded in 87 DR. The only lord of the city prior to Nasher that's been mentioned is Halueth Never, an elven war hero who defeated the armies of Illusk when they tried to expand into Iliyanbruen.

I do recall Khelben Arunsun's father Zelphar (who was actually his son) was from Neverwinter and a man from Neverwinter named Pardulph was married to Stormraven, the Queen of Port Llast - though whether either of them had connection to the Lordship, I couldn't tell you.

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Edited by - hashimashadoo on 18 Nov 2014 15:00:04
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PhluXx
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2014 :  18:01:31  Show Profile Send PhluXx a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So Neverwinter of Eigersstor is it was then known was an Eladrin city? Or did just so happen per chance that the previous ruler was a Sun Elf?
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4117 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2014 :  20:26:52  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting. Stormraven, the Queen of Port Llast.

I believe Laeral Silverhand once ruled over the realm of Stornanter which had Port Llast as a part of it. The writeup of a magical throne seemed to imply that she was interested in a court wizard Merek Aldanek.


I also believe Laeral and Khelben had an on again off again relationship over many centuries.

So was Stormraven related to Laeral Silverhand (I realise Stornanter as a realm failed but she could have had a child - the chosen do that a lot it would seem).

Was Khelben really Marek?

Or was Stormraven Laeral in disguise and Pardulph Khelben.


Either way, its interesting. I wonder what Eric Boyd, George Krashos and Steven Schend could have to say on this topic.

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4117 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2014 :  20:28:41  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh and Neverwinter way back in 87 DR would have been an elven city.

Not sure why it was named Eigersstor. Its not a very elven name, clearly its named after a rocky outcropping (or tor) where someone called Eiger either lived or died. Eiger however sounds a bit human or perhaps dwarven.

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Sylrae
Learned Scribe

Canada
306 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2014 :  20:35:54  Show Profile Send Sylrae a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PhluXx

So Neverwinter of Eigersstor is it was then known was an Eladrin city? Or did just so happen per chance that the previous ruler was a Sun Elf?



Well Eladrin didn't exist on Faerun at the time, they were still CG outsiders.

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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1114 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2014 :  23:49:20  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Interesting. Stormraven, the Queen of Port Llast.

I believe Laeral Silverhand once ruled over the realm of Stornanter which had Port Llast as a part of it. The writeup of a magical throne seemed to imply that she was interested in a court wizard Merek Aldanek.


I also believe Laeral and Khelben had an on again off again relationship over many centuries.

So was Stormraven related to Laeral Silverhand (I realise Stornanter as a realm failed but she could have had a child - the chosen do that a lot it would seem).

Was Khelben really Marek?

Or was Stormraven Laeral in disguise and Pardulph Khelben.


Either way, its interesting. I wonder what Eric Boyd, George Krashos and Steven Schend could have to say on this topic.



The dates don't match up for Laeral to be Stormraven. Stormraven was queen of Port Llast long after Stornanter fell. As for being related to her...well, Stormraven has only ever been mentioned in one source but Laeral would probably admit if she had had children from before she donned the Crown of Horns.

I don't know whether Stormraven was a creation of Ed's or Steve Perrin's.

Also, Halueth Never died centuries before Lord Nasher was born (I think that's what you meant PhluXx).

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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Edited by - hashimashadoo on 18 Nov 2014 14:56:39
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
656 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2014 :  10:55:25  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I believe Laeral Silverhand once ruled over the realm of Stornanter which had Port Llast as a part of it. The writeup of a magical throne seemed to imply that she was interested in a court wizard Merek Aldanek.


I also believe Laeral and Khelben had an on again off again relationship over many centuries.

So was Stormraven related to Laeral Silverhand (I realise Stornanter as a realm failed but she could have had a child - the chosen do that a lot it would seem).

Was Khelben really Marek?

Or was Stormraven Laeral in disguise and Pardulph Khelben.
Off the top of my head, I recall reading that it was confirmed that Marek was indeed Khelben in disguise, but the exact source eludes me. I know that I have (somewhere) a timeline, of sorts, of Khelben's life and times, which I think was created by Steven Schend and posted on a public form (probably the old REALMS-L list), so it's probably not fully canon. I can probably dig up the document, and chances are that I included the source somewhere.

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1114 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2014 :  15:06:30  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think I've heard of this Merek Aldanek before.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31518 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2014 :  16:29:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth

Off the top of my head, I recall reading that it was confirmed that Marek was indeed Khelben in disguise, but the exact source eludes me. I know that I have (somewhere) a timeline, of sorts, of Khelben's life and times, which I think was created by Steven Schend and posted on a public form (probably the old REALMS-L list), so it's probably not fully canon. I can probably dig up the document, and chances are that I included the source somewhere.



I've posted it here, myself, more than once. Here's an older version; I don't think it has been updated since it was originally compiled (which was before the Blackstaff novel came out).

quote:
This material is all from Steven Schend and contains both official (in print) realmslore and his unofficial addenda and musings ...

The Khelben Arunsun Official Timeline (as far as I'm concerned)

Dates: 414 - 464
Identity: “Arun’s Son”
Notes: Goes from birth as first human in a noble elven bloodline; he has no name until his near-death at age 50 in Anauroch.

Timeline Events:

414 Year of Omen Stars
On Higharvestide, Arielimnda, a human ranger, fellow Harper, and wife of Arun Maerdrym, delivers a human son. Since he is human, the boy is not allowed to bear the Maerdrym name. Arun follows an ancient elven custom and does not name the boy, allowing him the freedom to earn a name (and perhaps a place in the clan) later.
426 Year of the Black Dawn
Arun's human son joins students of the Seven Wizards of Myth Drannor as a pupil of Mentor Wintercloak. At age 12, he remains unnamed, though he has a number of nicknames some elves gave him: Biir ("garbage," used by commoner elves) or Zenar ("Less than half," as a nobles' double insult against himself and his half-breed father). His few green elf friends call him Bhin, a word for "young human."
449 Year of the Fledglings
The son of Arun finishes his tutelage under Mentor Wintercloak and leaves Myth Drannor to learn of the world and teach it the ways and magics of the City of Song. Secretly, he also plans on proving his worth to his father's clan and becoming one of the first Harpers outside of Cormanthyr and the eastern lands. He takes the only name he has been called of which he is proud: Arun's Son. He vows to claim his place among the Maerdrym once he has earned a true name.
464 Year of the True Names
While wandering across Anauroch, Arun's Son saves a trio of Evereskan elves from a phaerimm ambush nearly at the cost of his life. Retrieved from death by Mystra, he becomes her Chosen, "as he whom magic, duty, and honor defines." As the Nameless Chosen, he becomes the first human ever to stay among Evereska's glades.


Dates: 464 - 712
Identity: The Nameless Chosen
Notes: Adopts this as his title/”name” as he does not know that Mystra gave him his truename as “he whom duty & honor defines”

Timeline Events:

Campaign #4:
The Woodsheart Wars
A.K.A. "Cormanthyr's Carnage"
Location: All over the forest; focal points around Myth Drannor and within the mythal's interior
Time: Ches - Marpenoth 712 (219 days)
Campaign Victor: Cormanthyr's Elves/Allies
The longest of the campaigns, this operation also has the most objective information to report, despite the wide fronts and constant activity. The bulk of the campaign occurred as skirmishes between small groups of scouts and perimeter patrollers. With the Army of Darkness becoming dug-in within the mythal, it took outside allies and much of the year to uproot them and drive them from the mythal. The brief incursion of the Dalesmen early in this campaign is the only outside support Cormanthyr received during the war, and this lasted only until the Army was removed from the mythal. Whether the Dalesmen allies left of their own accord or were dismissed by elves believing their aid to be unecessary is unknown. After Higharvestide 712 Dalereckoning, the Dalesmen only guarded the fringes of the forest and their own home Dales, with two exceptions: the Dalesmen forces (and those few AWOL War Wizards of Cormyr) sent to the Battle of Snowsblood Trail and Standing Stone's Blood were crucial in gaining a victory after the fall of the limited elven defenders.
Once the Army of Darkness' choke-hold on Myth Drannor is broken early on, much of the campaign concerns forcing the Army of Darkness out of the mythal and east, since south would expose Semberholme. A secondary action during this campaign involved the drive eastward to reestablish the older elven seat at the ruins of Old Elven Court. Arms-Captain Hachaam Selorn led the Fourth Legion and the Eagle Wing cavalry of the Akh`Velahr and the Dragonwing and Wyvernwing of the Akh`Faer as the primary army in charge of reclaiming the area from the drow corruption.

Dawn at Erolith's Knoll
A.K.A.: The Fight atop Erolith's Mound, Rise of the Dales
Dates: Ches 4 - 5
Victor: Cormanthyr's Elves/Allies
This battle centered on and around Erolith's Mound, the burial place of a noted sylvan elf scout and warrior. The battle at Erolith's Knoll saw the counter-invasion of the Elven Woods by a ragtag army of volunteers led by Mindal the warrior, and they stood to help the elves against their monstrous foes. The battle, coordinated by Lady Alais Dree, saw the First Legion of the Army of Darkness pincered between elves on the north and northeast, and Dalesmen on the west. While initially suprised, the Army's superior numbers still allowed them to hold the ground, and the allies faltered in their attacks. The Army decimated the elven troops, ignoring the Dalesmen as nearly ineffectual gnats until the timely arrival of the former armathor Elminster Aumar and the Nameless Mage (both Chosen of Mystra) turned the battle back to the allies' favor. By battle's end, despite losses of more than half the Dalesmen and 20% of the elven cavalry, the Allies of Cormanthyr destroy the 1st Regiment of the Battalion Grievous and the 3rd Regiments of both the Agonists and the Painful. As was their intention, they put the army on the move east and south, skirting them around the city and hopefully out of the mythal.

Battle of the Three Chosen
Dates: Ches 16 - 17
Victor: Cormanthyr's Elves/Allies
Major Deaths: The Icepikes & Ardorstaves Battalions

This battle, as a combined number of skirmishes among the Silverglades south of Myth Drannor, merely kept the First and Second Legions from entrenching themselves and kept moving them along to the east (though some were driven north to either reconnoiter with the Imperious at Oloriil or wander the northern woods. It is notable only as the first known meeting of three of Mystra's Chosen (Elminster Aumar, the Nameless Mage, and the Lady Symrustar Auglamyr) and their destruction of four regiments among the two legions!

Silversgate
A.K.A.: The Second Siege of Myth Drannor, the Nameless Sacrifice, the Chosen's Choice
Dates: Tarsakh 11 - 13
Victor: Cormanthyr's Elves/Allies (tactical); Army of Darkness (emotional). Cormanthyr's victory is in driving the Army of Darkness out of the city, while they claim the victory of forcing the elves to close many gates and the loss of powerful allies and leaders.
Major Deaths: The Nameless Chosen, Wollys Silvershield (high priest of Selûne); Colonel Cvor "the Whipmaster"
The battle at Silversgate is one of the most storied and heroic tales of the entire Weeping War, as one who was denied his name by Myth Drannor apparently gave his life in its cause. In short, the Army of Darkness was driven east, and its northern and southern factions merged and punched through the elven defenders on the western front as they passed, allowing them a second charge on Myth Drannor. The bulk of this battle occurs among the streets of the old city Cormanthor, and its climax centers on the Silversgate, the magical gate to Silverymoon Pass and a link to the sister cities of Ascalhorn and Silverymoon.
While the military fought bravely on all fronts, this battle was primarily one of magic and thus spearheaded by Spell-Major Josidiah Starym, Elminster, Symrustar Auglamyr, and the Nameless Chosen. With many elven forces exhausted from the previous battles, only the cavalry and two-thirds of the available Akh`Faer forces were in the city for its defense until the arrival after battle's start of the Wing cavalry, some gold, silver, and electrum dragon allies, and the Three Chosen.
The spellcasters and military worked together to isolate and destroy the reduced and tired battalions (the Cruelty, the Colossus, the Grievous, Battalion Arcane) of the Army of Darkness. In all, the Army of Darkness suffered the loss of a battalion's worth of troops, losing 11 marches and 4 complete regiments in the melee. Among them, four entire tribes of gnolls were totally destroyed as was the most powerful march in the Army, Cvor's all mezzoloth March of the 2nd Cruelty Regiment.
Cvor's March, or "the Whipmaster's March" as more commonly known among the troops, laid siege to the Silversgate in upper Cormanthor at highsun on the second day of battle, following his orders to guard the gate against any allied incursions while the Fourth Cruelty Regiment sought magical items and plunder in the surrounding buildings and ruins. The Nameless Chosen became enraged by the destruction of his native city and the abrupt slaying of a trio of young bronze dragons that had emerged through the gate to lend aid requested a tenday ago. As their overall plans were capable of moving the Army out of the city, the other mages were sadly resigned to the losses, since the Army's battalions had learned to tighten their ranks and attack and raid as an army rather than random hordes; still bereft of Gaulguth's commanding presence, the troops and attacks were tightly organized to prevent any major losses unless their formations were broken. The Nameless One lost his temper over the "insufferable waiting for them to trip hidden spelltraps with no guarantees for success—We are supposed to be the pride and glory of Faerûn, but we cower like rabbits waiting for a fox to stop stalking its warren!"
With a roar of anger and vengeance, the Nameless exploded through the roof of one of the Six Tyryl Towers, his body glowing and his hair and robes ablaze in silver flames! Similarly to the dragon Peridot's rash charge, he dove headlong into the amassed and "impenetrable" forces of the besieging Army, scattering many gnolls and ogres and orcs like chaff before a great wind. Driving a wedge through the forces, he converged on the Silversgate, where Colonel Cvor and his mezzoloths stood. Spreading his arms wide, the Nameless One scrawled one line in the shattered marble of the street before him with a beam of silver fire, and no mezzoloth crossed that line that day. On his arms, he formed massive wings of silver fire, raising them high and knocking many creatures down from high towers or parapets. As he walked slowly and steadily forward, the blazing line advanced with him, forcing all back before him. Fully aflame now, the Nameless began reaching out with his silver wings and sweeping the nycaloths into the gate, which opened at his merest word. Spelltraps lying in wait activated at his will, causing explosions that claimed more savage lives as he walked unharmed within them. Over 600 mezzoloths and goblins and other creatures fell before the fury of the Nameless, and Myth Drannor's defenders rallied once more. With a large wedge driven into the Army's forces, the Akh`Faer and the cavalry had their openings they could exploit and drive the Army before them again.

Fate of the Nameless One
The Nameless Chosen stood before the Silversgate, driving the Whipmaster Cvor before him, and he laughed at the mezzoloth's challenge. As Nameless turned to bid his comrades-at-arms good will and luck in battle, the razor-studded whip of Cvor wrapped about his throat, and the two fell into the gate, struggling. Flying to his aid, Elminster the Crafty entered the Silversgate and shut the gate behind him to isolate Cvor's March. The Nameless Chosen's full intent in his mad attack was to open up the Army's lines and isolate sectors of it to destroy more easily than the collective. Alone but undaunted, the fire-engorged form of the Nameless One towered over the battle. Back to back with the elder Chosen Elminster, he fought hundreds of mezzoloth within the rocky Silverymoon Pass, and the glow of his silvery form drew attention from Silverymoon. Still, while his successes led to victory for the Allies of Cormanthyr, the hubris of the Nameless One led to his undoing.
Trusting that his flaming form would be proof against any attacks, he was caught unawares by Colonel Cvor when it used a captured elven artifact (the Harness of the Giant-Slayer Alayris) to grow to a giant's size and seize the flaming mage by hand and foot. More swiftly than the reactions of either Chosen, Cvor pulled the Nameless Chosen nearly in half by sheer strength and brutality! The explosion of magical power and fire utterly consumed Cvor and over 200 nearby mezzoloths, but not the one who wielded it. As the fireball subsided, the Nameless One lay dying, the silver fire desperately draining away out of his laid-open torso. While Elminster later reported that Mystra herself preserved his life as he lay wounded, at least three sources (two half-elven histories and one elven song) suggest that another power such as Sehanine saved him in return for his aiding her People. Still, the High Mage of Silverymoon Ecamane Truesilver and his supporting wizard forces protected the body of the fallen Chosen from the remaining mezzoloths. Together, while the Nameless One was sent magically to Silverymoon for healing, Elminster and the elderly and frail Ecamane destroyed the gate to Myth Drannor, detonating it from within and at its exit. The explosions slew the remnants of the Fourth Regiment surrounding it at Myth Drannor as well as clearing Silverymoon Pass of its remaining brethren.
As a result of this battle, Myth Drannor's forces won the day, but unknowingly paid a high price. Elminster was lost within the planes for a time, due to his task of destroying the gate from within, while Ecamane Truesilver died due to the strain of breaking the gate from its exit point at Silverymoon Pass. The Nameless Chosen lay like one dead for more than the next year, though Mystra speaks to those who tend him, calling him "he whom magic, duty, and honor defines." His elven nurse, who hears this in her own tongue, gives him the name Akhelbhen; upon his awakening, the Nameless Chosen, once called Arun's Son is introduced him to the new High Mage Aglanthol as Khelben Arunsun. His body healed but forever scarred across his chest and back where he was nearly torn in twain, he voluntarily banishes his vanity and keeps a wedge of silver-white hair in his beard to remind him of the silver flames dancing within it and how it does not make him invincible. It also signifies his debts, as it reminds him of Silverymoon and what he owes its people as well.

Dates:712 - 714
Identity: The Nameless Sleeper
Notes: Lies in coma in Silverymoon after nearly dying at the Battle of Silversgate in the Weeping War of Myth Drannor.

Dates: 714 - c748
Identity: Akhelben Arunson
Notes: Name immediately shortened to Khelben due to hard-of-hearing elf nurse at his bedside who hears what Mystra has named him.

Timeline Events:

720 Year of the Dawn Rose
The Gathering of the Gods at the Dancing Place signals the refounding of the Harpers at the request of some elves from Elven Court. In attendance are all 15 of the Harpers at Twilight who survived the previous decade, including Lady Alais Dree, Elminster Aumar, Khelben Arunsun (once the Nameless Chosen), and Meil "Darkhunter" Araeln.


Dates: c748 - c808
Identity: Hauliyr “the Old Witch”
Notes: Helped raise some of the 7 sisters at this lifetime; primarily responsible for raising the girl Syluné after the Harper Thamator the Old could not raise her as a ranger, so Khelben as Hauliyr taught her magic from 775 until “death” in 808.

Dates: c808 – c816
Identity: Malek Aldhanek
Notes: Works anonymously in court of Laeral the Witch-Queen of the North as a Tethyrian wizard—smitten by her but unrequited as yet; cut short by assassination he has to go along with and abandon this identity, Laeral grieves for ID’s death, realizing love “too late.” Laeral butts heads with Syluné c.841 and abandons her realm near future Luskan (806-841) to become Chosen at age 76 (though she looks 20ish), as does Syluné.

Dates: c816 - c844
Identity: ?
Notes: Lost years ...

Dates: c844 - c956
Identity: ”Halver Gehrin”
Notes: Too known in Silverymoon to elves, thus he is known as Khelben (privately) & as Halver (publicly). Helps fence in Hellgate Keep in 886; never came to Waterdeep in this “lifetime”; trains Ahghairon in Silverymoon during this time & “dies” 4 years after A becomes Waterdeep’s premeir mage.
Also during this lifetime, Khelben secretly studies the Prophecies of Alaundo and takes on his darker, now-familiar mien. He begins planning for the long-off future and the potential dangers of the phaerimm (pieces of plan include moving to Waterdeep, collecting many magical items, reforming the Harpers, forming the Teukiira, etc.)
Ahghairon of Waterdeep’s lifespan = 920-1256; 927 - 941 is his time of tutoring in Silverymoon. Two of his many tutors are Renwick (Thornhold) and Halver aka Khelben. Khelben later helps Ahghairon create the Helms & Cloaks of Waterdeep

Dates: c956 - c1113
Identity: ?
Notes: Lost Years 2 ...: Has at least two lifetimes w/aliases but does not openly travel as Khelben; helps create offices of Heralds (996) and helps Elminster refound the Harpers again in 1022. Spent 3 decades in the 900s in Serôs, eradicating spelljammer wrecks & recovering from broken heart.

Dates: c.1113 - 1256
Identity: Khelben Arunson - “Khelben the Elder.”
Notes: Arrives in Waterdeep & builds Arunsun Tower in 1150; Zelphar Arunsun’s lifespan = c1249 – 1311.

Dates: 1256 - c1270
Identity: ?
Notes: Lost Years 3 ...: between aliases and setting up Ducat’s background, working for Harpers?

Dates: c.1270 - 1311
Identity: Ducat Eattel
Notes: Khelben finally in Waterdeep (or perhaps returned since Lost Years) in the guise as Ducat Eattel (a secret Lord recruited by Shilarn and Baeron in 1273), who is appointed one of the first Magisters (judges) of Waterdeep

Timeline Event:

1302 Khelben the Younger born to Zelphar and Lhestyn

Dates: 1311 - 1321
Identity: Khelben the Elder
Notes: Returns to his tower, fakes death as Ducat Eattel, & trains his namesake in secret after death of his son.

Dates: 1321 - 1370
Identity: Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun
Notes: The elder Khelben replaces the younger, taking himself his own grandson’s identity and adds honorific of the Blackstaff.


Khelben’s Marriages/Loves

Dates: 714 - 748
Name: Khelben I
Marital Status: Single
Children: 1 daughter (½elf)

Dates: c.748 - c.808
Name: “Hauliyr”
Marital Status: Married
Childrne: 2 daughters (½ elves) (Saheen Silverbrow)

Dates: 844 - 956
Name: “Halver Gehrin” [Khelben II (privately only)]
Marital Status: Married (½e)
Children: 2 daughters (one ½elf, one human)

Dates: 1100 - 1256
Name: Khelben III “the Elder”
Marital Status: Married (human) Children: 1 son, 1 daughter (twin h)
Married (human) Children: 2 daughters; 1 son(Zelphar)

Dates: 1302 - now
Name: Khelben IV “the Blackstaff”
Marital Status: Single
Children: Unknown (no children? Maura?)


Marriage/Love: 750 – 774
Wife/Lover: Mariel Silverbrow
Details: Half-elf wife; as human son of half-elf, his kids can be half-elves. Raised his half-elf daughters (751, 755) until 770, and they leave. training Syluné from 775 – 808 w/death; Saheen returns to finish Syluné’s training.

Marriage/Love: 808-816
Wife/Lover: (Laeral)
Details: Realizes his truelove in Laeral, though circumstances don’t allow the match to happen; Khelben’s identity dies, leaving Laeral to grieve.

Marriage/Love: 830s?
Wife/Lover: (Laeral)
Details: Second missed opportunity; this time, it is Khelben who holds Laeral off

Marriage/Love: 866ish
Wife/Lover: (Laeral)
Details: Third missed opportunity, since Khelben is married in his alias as Halver. Don’t see each other after sealing of Hellgate Keep for more than 200 years.

Marriage/Love: 862 – 879
Wife/Lover: (half-elf)
Details: Wife dies in childbirth after years of trying for kids, bearing twin daughters nearly identical save that one is half-elf and the other human.

Marriage/Love: 1080s?
Wife/Lover: (Laeral)
Details: She’s married this time and he’s tied up with Harperstuff….. Go nearly 300 years apart…

Marriage/Love: 1109 – 1146
Wife/Lover: ? (human)
Details: Human wife in area near Yartar? Children grown & gone by 1130 (b. 1112); wife dies & K finally goes to Waterdeep as Khelben (later known as “the Elder”)

Marriage/Love: 1238 – 1251?
Wife/Lover: Cassandra ?
Details: Human wife bears three kids in 1240, 1244, and 1249; 2-yr-old daughter dies in attack by Kerrigan the Traitor Lord in 1246. Disappears in 1251 after death of wife to deal with Harper business; Zelphar raised by cousins in Neverwinter and visited intermittently by Khelben (whose official death is set c.1280). Returns later as Ducat Eattel, his family gone from Waterdeep.

Marriage/Love: 1329 – present
Wife/Lover: Laeral
Details: Khelben entrenched in Waterdeep as the Blackstaff by 1322; pursues Laeral across the North at times, though she is part of the Nine now and is reluctant to finally consummate 500 years of missed opportunities and unrequited passion. Khelben continues, saving her from the Crown of Horns in 1357. By 1360, the pair is finally together & inseparable.

- The Swordsage



Well, according to Laeral, he has a fascinating mole on his...er, best let modesty stop us here.....

Khelben cannot stand the taste of zzar but does have a well-stocked wine cellar of his favorite full-bodied Tethyrian red wines....

Steven
who can also say Khelben and Laeral both like tiramisu when they can get it....

----------

"Lady Cassandra Thann is the daughter of Zelphar Arunsun.....
Zelphar comes to Waterdeep with young daughter in tow; eventually meets and marries Lhestyn {whose maiden name I don't recall}.
Lhestyn & Zelphar have a child named Khelben; this child will grow up and be called Khelben the Blackstaff untill a distant ancestor shows up and takes the kid's identity. The kid then takes a hike off into the planes and eventually ends up on Greyhawk Oerth as Khelben Ravencloak.......
Despite the secret switch (known only to a select few in the Realms and the readers), most people honestly believe he's the son of Zelphar & Lhestyn (though we know he's about 800+ years older than that). Thus, Cassandra still treats him like a little brother, and any times he seems older than that she mentally chalks it up to "his mysteries and wizards' training." While Dan is astute and probably figures that his "uncle" is far more than that, he's playing along with this charade as it's how the Blackstaff wants to play it. Of all the folks on the Realms, I'd guess that only Elminster, Khelben himself, the Seven Sisters (or at least those he helped raise), and a few select elves in Silverymoon, Evermeet, and Cormanthyr might know his secret; and, of course, they've got good reasons not to tell anyone too....... Even the other Lords are not in on this secret, though Mirt & Durnan suspect, while Piergeiron merely trusts Khelben on faith.... "


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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 18 Nov 2014 :  16:39:10  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yoink.

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hashimashadoo
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 18 Nov 2014 :  23:35:51  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, "Malek". Interesting. Also, yowzahs! Many thanks to Steven and Wooly.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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George Krashos
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Australia
5280 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2014 :  03:33:52  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The elves of Iliyanbruen never had a settlement of significance at the site of Neverwinter, but they did have a sea tower that facilitated the use of the natural harbour for ships to and from Evermeet. Following their clash with Illusk, the elves of the present-day Neverwinter Wood commenced a slow but steady mini-Retreat, with most travelling to Evermeet but some moon elves travelling to Eaerlann and some golds to Siluvanede. After 50 years they had relinquished the coast to human Northman settlement. Attempts by the humans to log the Neverwinter Wood were dealt with swiftly and harshly and were therefore significantly curtailed, but the capital of Sharandar remained populated and the elves maintained control of the woodlands.

Eigersstor was founded in 87DR by the aged Northman raider Eiger "One-Arm" Sparsarl, originally hailing from Tuern, who gave up life on a longship after losing his sword arm to orcs and settled his large family (he had 9 wives, over 25 sons and a host of grandchildren) at the site of present-day Neverwinter. There was an influx of people following Uthgar's assault on Illusk after 95DR, which helped the settlement survive attacks fromm raiders and humanoids.

In 152 DR it suffered a further population boost after Illusk fell to orcs and enjoyed the benefit of having Grath's Hold (Modern: Port Llast) as a buffer between it and the orcs when they fell upon that settlement in 175 DR. The orcs had created a realm, which they named Agrock, and they began to tentatively probe the elven holdings in the Neverwinter Wood. That met with swift action from the elves who launched an all out attack, destroying the orcs and their short-lived "kingdom" but at the cost of most of their young warriors. After 180 DR, Iliyanbruen existed in name only with only scattered elven enclaves located within the forest.

Neverwinter meanwhile, protected by the forest on its eastern flank, the sea to the west and buffer cities and realms to the north and south, went from strength to strength. It also received the assistance of its draconic protector Palarandusk, and so probably has the unique distinction of being the largest independent city of the North never to have been conquered or sacked - well, until 4E that is. A good place to live, I reckon.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 19 Nov 2014 :  11:03:28  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With an answer like that GK, anyone would think you had been working hard on a sourcebook for the North.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5280 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2014 :  11:59:03  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, they would, wouldn't they.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 19 Nov 2014 :  14:20:59  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote


The North? Hmmmmm... me thinks I've heard of it.

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Neverwinter meanwhile, protected by the forest on its eastern flank, the sea to the west and buffer cities and realms to the north and south, went from strength to strength. It also received the assistance of its draconic protector Palarandusk, and so probably has the unique distinction of being the largest independent city of the North never to have been conquered or sacked - well, until 4E that is. A good place to live, I reckon.
Many things in 4e got 'sacked' (and I mean that in EVERY sense of the word).

BTW, Krash, when you sign your name at the end of your posts, I get this mental visual of a drummer who drops his drumsticks at the end.


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 19 Nov 2014 14:23:50
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  21:16:50  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kinda late to the party (and yeah, I'm casting the necromantic spells), but I could really appreciate a source for this (its for scientific purposes):


quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Eigersstor was founded in 87DR by the aged Northman raider Eiger "One-Arm" Sparsarl, originally hailing from Tuern, who gave up life on a longship after losing his sword arm to orcs and settled his large family (he had 9 wives, over 25 sons and a host of grandchildren) at the site of present-day Neverwinter. There was an influx of people following Uthgar's assault on Illusk after 95DR, which helped the settlement survive attacks fromm raiders and humanoids.

-- George Krashos



I would be really grateful.

Also, this beckons a doubt: Why, then, Halueth Never is credited as the founder of Neverwinter in Volo's Guide to the North and the Neverwinter Nights games?

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 31 Jan 2018 21:40:52
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  22:04:41  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The 'source' is GEORGE KRASHOS! Dost though doubt the word of the God of The North?



As for Port Llast, I did something with it in the Nentir Vale conversion (which works whether you use the conversion or not) - hmmmm... just checked...

NO I DIDN'T

It was Leilon I was thinking of. Leilon is built on top of some of the ruins of Dwarven Haunghdannar (thats actually canon) - most of the runs lie just of the coast though, just underwater. What I did there was place the other ruins from that kingdom in the area, and I think at least one of them had something 'new' built on top of it (I need to get back to that project!)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 31 Jan 2018 22:05:09
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Zeromaru X
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Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  22:13:29  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't doubt his word (his timelines of Impiltur and the North are the best compilations of information I have read). Is just that the wiki requires sources for this kind of info

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  22:26:19  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He kinda is a source. LOL

He was the 'go to' guy for all thing 'North' related for years, for all the official FR products. Even Eric Boyd confers with him o a regular basis (there is a secret group... well, maybe not so secret... 'the holders of deep knowledge' - that are privy to way more FR material than we've ever seen in print).

For instance, if you look at my map I did for Eric's Shining Vale (his Illefarn Anew), you'll se I somewhat detailed Orlumobor, which has never been done before. So while it can be 'poo-pooed' as "just Markustay homebrew", the truth is those islands ARE detailed in Eric's product, which was never published. Now you might say, "okay, but that's STILL not canon".

But it is... Eric got that lore directly from Ed, and ANYTHING Ed says is CANON, as per his contract (unless overwritten by other, published official lore). Not everything 'Ed says' ever sees the light of day... and that's a damn shame.

So maybe its not technically canon, but its part of a deeper canon (and if its something Ed said to him, then it IS canon... and I'm pretty sure that's what a lot of that is). It may have also been 'Schend canon', which probably runs a close second to Eric's own canon, which are just a hair's breath below 'Ed canon'. There are constantly revised and updated documents that these gentleman share when designing stuff. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen anymore - I think that was part of the '4e plan' - WotC no longer needed to ping those personages for the 'canon'; they simply obliterated it all. This was discussed just recently in another thread - the 'in-house' guys had to justify their existence to Hasbro, because it seems they were out-sourcing way too much to 'freelancers' (because those freelancers knew WAY more about the setting than they did).

'politics' in all its forms is a parasite - it will eventually consume and kill that which it lives off of.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 31 Jan 2018 22:29:09
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  23:02:35  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And that is really shame, because this lore is really good (or perhaps is because I love Neverwinter and I love all her lore--sans her 5e lore, because they turned her into Boringwinter). Regardless of canonicity, I'm going to adopt this for my home campaign. I even have an idea on how to reconcile the Halueth Never and Eiger Sparsarl stuff.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5280 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  03:34:00  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Kinda late to the party (and yeah, I'm casting the necromantic spells), but I could really appreciate a source for this (its for scientific purposes):

...

I would be really grateful.

Also, this beckons a doubt: Why, then, Halueth Never is credited as the founder of Neverwinter in Volo's Guide to the North and the Neverwinter Nights games?



Halueth Never is not credited as the founder of Neverwinter in VGttN. If he is in the context of the Neverwinter Nights game, then that is wrong.

The reference to Eigersstor is from FR5 Savage Frontier. The lore above is mine. As is the dating for Eigersstor's founding and many, many dates for the history of the North. Feel free to use them as you like. Most have been "canonized" in Lost Empires of Faerun and then the Grand History.

I keep thinking I should update my North Timeline. So much new stuff to put in, not the least of which is the lore Eric Boyd and I came up with for the ancient realms of the High Forest. If Eric gets to GenCon this year, we'll have to have a chat about that.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  04:18:34  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, Halueth is credited as the founder of the city in the lore of Neverwinter Nights 2.

I've been using your revised timeline to get many references to pre-4e products I don't own, so I have to thank you for that.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5280 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  06:49:36  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Yeah, Halueth is credited as the founder of the city in the lore of Neverwinter Nights 2.

I've been using your revised timeline to get many references to pre-4e products I don't own, so I have to thank you for that.



You're welcome. It's times like this that I realize I should get to work on the Revised Revised Timeline of the North. So much more lore to add that's just sitting on my HD. Then again, I have so many projects on the go that I really should stop and focus. I sit at my computer and say "oooh, shiny!" over and over again as I race down lore-filled streets. Oh well, all in good time.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  07:52:17  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Perhaps, now knowing about the misstep in the video game, the two can be reconciled?

Say that Eigersstor is the guy who actually founded the settlement, but it was latter 'organized' (like, with a mayor and town guard) and named 'Neverwinter' for the very first time when Halueth Never showed up.

Thus, 'town records' will go back to that time, stating that Halueth Never 'founded' the town of Neverwinter, when meanwhile the settlement had already been there, unnamed, and started by Eigersstor. So two different 'foundings' - one the real one sages know about, and one that shows in the 'official record'. Both sets of lore can be true.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
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USA
7433 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  14:18:55  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, my recollections of visiting the place at that time were that Eiger was known as a "crotchedy old coot who didn't understand that bathing out of a barrel cut in half out in the open wasn't something his neighbors wanted to see". Most folks (including his grandchildren) were embarrassed by him, and they were just glad that other families moved in so that there was a larger pool of folks to choose to marry from. Halueth Never meanwhile could afford moustache wax and he kept a wonderfully groomed moustache, as well as smoking from an amazingly elaborate pipe that was said to be magical and allowed him to blow smoke rings into elaborate shapes. Or at least that's what I'm claiming, just cause its fun.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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