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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 12:41:48
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Thanks, but I'll stick with the campaign setting I like: 2e Revised.  |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 13:23:08
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'Not in development' doesn't necessarily mean 'Not going to happen'. Mike Mearls said one was "a long way off" because they didn't want the new canon set in stone - designers want to see what the DMs want to be in their games before it's all published in a canon sourcebook.
Example: So the new PHb had a bunch of gods in it that have been dead for a long time but rumours have been spreading that they have returned. The designers want US to decide whether those gods HAVE returned before it is stated as fact. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 15:13:22
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The thing is, people can do -and are currently doing- that alone. We don't need WotC's permission, encouragement or greenlight, but I think that many people would instead like to know what the post sundering Realms are like, with appropriate stories and explanations,.
For example, when you mention the case of the gods, I think that an explanation for the return of deities that WotC went out of their way to remove in printed material is due. And an overview of how their clergy/followers are doing after their god's return as well, considering that 100 years of absence wold logically weaken the influence of their faith.
EDIT: Nvm, misunderstood you. However, I don't think that it is their plan. I mean, they put the deities there, so players are going to use them, I truly doubt that they would throw out of the window some of them (all of them are eligible for organized play characters, so their return is basically already canon).
And how are they going to see what DMs did for all the stuff that isn't even mentioned (for example, how are they going to know that DMs returned Halruaa or deities not included in the PHB list in their Realms, when those things aren't even mentioned anywhere in 5e material?) |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 25 Oct 2014 17:44:20 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 20:19:32
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A tip of my hat to dazzler, for being even more cynical and pessimistic than I am.
Just playin. While I do believe that WotC will make every possible effort to create a new campaign guide, and I'm confident that it will be top-notch if they're able to make it happen, I agree that we can probably write our own before they're able to get through writing/proofing/art/layout/publishing/delivering.
I'm content to wait for it, but I will certainly be doing my own things in the meantime... one of which might be tentatively codenamed Zakhara 5e. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 20:35:23
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There is no indication whatsoever from WotC that the Realms will not be released as a campaign setting for 5E.
Betterto work on a campaign setting of your own for the sake of doing it than to assume something you don't know to be true and use that as a reason to spread cynicism on the forum space, bring people down and oh by the way maybe get to work on a setting of your own. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 21:10:58
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Frankly I find WotC's approach backwards as it relates to their Realms. I think it makes more sense to present the Realms via a setting book, providing the sandbox for us to use, then putting out adventures that evolve the setting. That way those of us, like myself, who find no particular value in the adventures and don't buy them, still have something to use.
Granted we can easily use material from older editions as we wish, but that won't make WotC much (if any) money.
I've checked out Hoard of the Dragon Queen, just to see if it was worth the price of a sourcebook. It isn't (to me), which only re-affirms for me that printed adventures have nothing to offer me (certainly not at the cost of a sourcebook).
If there isn't a Realms setting book in print (or officially announced) by the end of 2015, I'll stick with spending my money on Paizo and Golarion. |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 23:41:23
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How long I'm willing to wait for WotC to launch a Campaign setting? Forever. It's not like it costs me anything.
As it's been said, everyone's already doing their own Realms, WotC's possible new Realms is just another book which might be of help for building on. If they launch it and it's good, great. If they launch it and it's bad, most people will ignore it. If they don't launch it, everyone keeps doing what they're doing.
Dazzlerdal, if you made a book about the Realms I'd probably like to read it. Hell, I'd probably pay for it if you were able to charge. But I'm not going to try to make one, because I'm already doing it in small pieces and I like mine better. I'm not going to write a Realms book that's not my Realms for free, it just seems like lots of work for nothing to me.
Edit: I'm probably coming across as confrontational. I'm sorry. The idea just doesn't make sense to me, but to whoever thinks it can be a good idea, I wish you the best. |
Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.
Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955
My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447 |
Edited by - Mapolq on 25 Oct 2014 23:52:00 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 23:45:03
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{Markustay biting the hell out of his tongue}
Patience...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 01:31:58
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I support Dazzerdal's idea. I think we should form a team just like they did to bring Dark Sun into 3.5. It was an amazing project and it frankly saved that setting from certain death.
I'm not saying we have that situation, but I very much support a project to do what may take WoTC 5+ years to start. I'd rather the fantastic designers get paid and start working on it tomorrow but I don't think that's going to happen. I'd like to see all the old sourcebooks brought up to speed to be, and the campaign setting encompass all the lore from all the editions, whilst being rule neutral.
I know it's a pipe dream, I'd also like all the sourcebooks and out of print boxed sets rewritten for Pathfinder :)
So yeah I'm dreaming, but dreams are good I guess. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 07:14:10
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well im still doing the writing my own. I was just hoping to motivate others into writing one together. Unfortunately I am not one of life's great motivators
Accentuate the positive. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 10:28:06
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Damn. I'm getting more disgruntled every time I read my own post here. I really shouldn't go stupidly shooting down people's ideas because I think they wouldn't work for me. Sorry.
For what it's worth, you can take my semi-canon stuff on the Vilhon Reach if you want, though I don't think it would help you much, as I made that as food for thought (and to organise my own thinking), not to be source material. It's probably easier to write one yourself than to get my scribblings to book format and quality, make it fit whatever vision you have, add what you think is missing and then edit. |
Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.
Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955
My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447 |
Edited by - Mapolq on 26 Oct 2014 10:29:51 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 14:13:13
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| If they have no desire to create stuff set in the past, we could possibly consider that an opportunity, rather then a roadblock. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Oct 2014 14:14:05 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 15:32:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If they have no desire to create stuff set in the past, we could possibly consider that an opportunity, rather then a roadblock.
So much yes. I would really like to see Aryvandaar, Miyeritar, Ilythiir... Oghrann, Delzoun, Deep Shanatar... Meiritin... Songfarla... Golothaer... written up as campaign settings, with hooks and villains and maps and all that good stuff. We have a gold mine of infinite depth, even if official development stopped, which of course it won't because a lot of folks are passionate about the future too.
Don't worry about whether you have the time and drive to write a whole campaign setting. An npc, a city, a map, a plot arc, some name ideas... start small, and share as you go if you want collaboration.
In many of these places, there's very little canon so far anyway, which means the doors are wide open to whatever we want to do with them. |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 26 Oct 2014 15:35:15 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 16:26:33
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If they have no desire to create stuff set in the past, we could possibly consider that an opportunity, rather then a roadblock.
So much yes. I would really like to see Aryvandaar, Miyeritar, Ilythiir... Oghrann, Delzoun, Deep Shanatar... Meiritin... Songfarla... Golothaer... written up as campaign settings, with hooks and villains and maps and all that good stuff. We have a gold mine of infinite depth, even if official development stopped, which of course it won't because a lot of folks are passionate about the future too.
Don't worry about whether you have the time and drive to write a whole campaign setting. An npc, a city, a map, a plot arc, some name ideas... start small, and share as you go if you want collaboration.
In many of these places, there's very little canon so far anyway, which means the doors are wide open to whatever we want to do with them.
I'm ringing in my agreement on this.
What I'd love to see is settings like these that I can easily plug into my campaigns. I might reference them for a vision a character in "present day" Realms has of the past, or I might actually play in that era myself, but either way I'd love this kind of stuff. One of the scribes here has collections of lore in PDF format at DeviantArt, I'd love to see more. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 18:18:43
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It would be interesting to have your regular group occasionally 'visit the past' (misfiring Gate, a Tardis, Wild Magic Surge, whatever) every so often.
I was actually talking about continuing the 1e/2e/3e era, broadening it, rather then moving forward (as WotC did). I enjoy details about the distant past in the setting, but I've never rally felt an urge to play in another time period (and for a lot of us, the 4e/5e era is "another time period").
My last post was actually longer, but then I thought better of it and edited. {still biting tongue} |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Oct 2014 18:21:35 |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 19:00:09
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Don't get me wrong, I'd love to do a community-authored campaign setting (if I had the time) but in regard to my earlier post, I think we should actively avoid the modern eras of the realms.
Instead, we should focus on the ancient realms posited by xaeyruudh and, if there's interest, Abeir. I for one would love to have a go at Oghrann but, like I said, time is a factor and I spend most of it writing content for my own players whom I run games for. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 19:46:24
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Well my interest is purely in the pre spell plague realms and continuing/expanding that era. I'd love to sort out what RSE and novel events people really want in the 3rd edition timeline and more importantly how they think they should have turned out without the Mary Sues' and the deus ex machine and the over involvement of deities.
I'm doing a bit of work for this already in my alternate dimensions project but that is just how I would like to see things pan out. Its usually better working together on such projects to get a consensus of opinion and pool ideas.
It would be great to finally work out how the community wants the death of the dragon and Azoun to play out (i.e. which settlements were attacked, who died, what was damaged etc) or what people wanted to happen with return of the archwizards, etc. Hopefully like me everyone would want no invincible Ghazneths or illogical phaerimm or swords made of shadow that instantly killed phaerimm.
Basically since the 3e timeline is now dead (maybe) it would be great if we could finally sort out the garbage that crept into it over time (and novels). Obviously it would only be for those that wanted to play in the 1350s to 1370s but would Khelben be dead, would Shade return, would Tilverton and that city in Sembia be erased. Its our realms why should we be dictated to by corporate nobodies out to make a fast buck.
As for history works, I'm rewriting the Netheril sourcebook to hopefully not be pants, I've done the history and I'm working through organisations, characters, and settlements. Not sure I could go near Delzoun or Ammarindar or Eaerlann or Miyeritar or Aryvandar. I need a minimum amount of lore to formulate ideas, coming up with stuff from scratch is too hard for me and lacks a feeling of legitimacy without someone like George Krashos, Eric Boyd, Steven Schend, Ed Greenwood, or the other great designers saying yay or nay to the suggestions. |
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
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Alternate Realms Site |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 19:57:10
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Its our realms why should we be dictated to by corporate nobodies out to make a fast buck.
Maybe because we wouldn't have the Realms without those "corporate nobodies out to make a fast buck"? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 20:25:52
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I'm not really trying to argue here, even though it's probably going to sound that way. I look at it as opining. 
Consensus isn't always possible, or desirable. For example, I think the return of Shade was stupid and I can gain some support for that, but there will always be a certain percentage who love the shades being an open and widely known force. Same with the resurrection of Myth Drannor. I'm a staunch foe of the TOT occurring as written, but some like/love it. Consensus on these issues isn't going to happen. And maybe it shouldn't, because with respect to any particular thing you choose to incorporate consensus requires those who don't like it to either (1) climb onto a bandwagon they despise, or (2) be disappointed by its inclusion and therefore less likely to contribute to the conversation. Is it not better to maximize creative contribution by acknowledging and developing contrary ideas? Let's look at the Anauroch region (stretching as far as Sembia) in various time frames both with and without the influence of Shade. That way those who feel strongly about the issue can champion their particular causes and the Realms comes out richer for all of them because it brings up the issues of precisely what positive and negative impacts the return of Shade had. We can discuss, and develop, without deciding... this presents individual DMs with options instead of railroading them into a set series of outcomes. And those who want to be forced to accept outcomes they don't necessarily like can pick the ones they feel are presented most strongly.
Similar arguments can be made in favor of all the time frames and rulesets. Want to use the 2e rules in the 5e timeframe, or vice versa? Cool.
If you want to see what the Realms would look like with more mature/reserved deities, let's talk about it. You shouldn't be silenced just because more strident voices on the forum like the gods being petty little brats.
I do strongly agree with the "pooling" of ideas, just not with the picking one and disregarding the rest. My insane sarrukh takeover of the world, for example, probably isn't a very popular idea. I still appreciate feedback on individual aspects of it, even if everyone thinks the overall idea is an epic fail. I'm sure many of us have ideas that fit that pattern... the whole thing might not get a lot of approval up front, but we still like it and want to develop it. Pooling ideas is awesome.
I'm pretty sure I've seen Steven pop into threads randomly with a "hey that sounds cool." Eric and George might be more likely to observe how something does or does not fit with canon, but I've never seen them go out of their way to shut anyone down. Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth, just saying based on my observations none of the authors/designers here are going to slap you around and call you names for generating new lore. I think, if they were going to do that, they would have slapped me for the sarrukh thing.
Anyway, I just think we should focus on encouraging as many ideas as possible, rather than filtering or funneling everyone into popular outcomes. Not because my own ideas aren't popular, but because maximizing participation is good. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 20:35:18
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Well said.
Sometimes I feel like if you are not backing the popular opinion you get shut-down in this forum. So many great things we could be talking about, but if certain people don't like the idea, kiss it goodbye.
I feel your pain, xaeyruudh - no one liked my Grand Cormyrean Railroad, either. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Oct 2014 20:36:02 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 20:52:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well said.
Sometimes I feel like if you are not backing the popular opinion you get shut-down in this forum. So many great things we could be talking about, but if certain people don't like the idea, kiss it goodbye.
I feel your pain, xaeyruudh - no one liked my Grand Cormyrean Railroad, either.
I second that (but I don't second it with the intent of shutting down any dissenting opinions, either.)
And Markustay do you have a link to that railroad? You've intrigued me. I can search for it myself, but if you have it readily available, it would be appreciated.  |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 21:22:26
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Nothing concrete - I've brought-up the idea of railroad in Cormyr once or twice, and no-one seemed interested. I pictured it being Dwarven-built, and much more like the (fantasy) trains in the novel Iron Dragon (which supposedly had a game to go along with it, about building a railroad in a fantasy setting, but I could never find it).
Went looking for the novel (there are several by that name), and found the game instead. Go figure. You can see it HERE. I was always a big fan of model-railroading when I was a kid (an interest that lead me to miniatures, which lead me to RPGs). So combining all my interests, and inspired by the train in that novel, I wanted to put a Railroad in Cormyr. In the novel - and my Homebrew setting - the Railroad is built and maintained by dwarves, but if you want to stick closer to canon in FR, you could say it was something Lantanese, built and maintained by Gondsmen.
In my Homebrew setting the railroad runs all over 'The Empire' (very much like the empire from the Warhammer game), and has tried to expand beyond the empire three times, with only one success (and that one only partial). Seems they always run into a bit of 'bad luck' when they try to cut through the mountains (two monumental projects, both halted... but one the dwarves are secretly trying re-activate). For the third they built an amazingly long (and high!) trestle-bridge across a straight - a brilliant feat of dwarven engineering! Just don't look down...
In the Cormyr scenario, that would be akin to building the same bridge across the 'the Neck' to the Dragoncoast.
In my (very) short-lived FR-meets-The-Old-West campaign I had a railroad, but that all took place over in anchorome. Also built by Dwarves (except for the Elven monorail... but thats another story), but maintained and used by everybody. I basically moved the timeline forward a century (long before WotC officially did) and used most of the Red Steel campaign stuff for it, including the maps.
And lastly, in my newest FR-mashup Campaign setting, I have an Eberron-style railroad, down in Halruaa, because I pasted-in a huge chunk of Eberron into Halruaa (which is a massive archipelago in MY FR). I don't need the railroad in the heartlands, because I have the Halruaan Airship Travel network instead.
Thats about it - more of a 'thought experiment' then anything I've put a lot of work into. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Oct 2014 03:22:12 |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 23:24:55
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well my interest is purely in the pre spell plague realms and continuing/expanding that era. I'd love to sort out what RSE and novel events people really want in the 3rd edition timeline and more importantly how they think they should have turned out without the Mary Sues' and the deus ex machine and the over involvement of deities.
I'm doing a bit of work for this already in my alternate dimensions project but that is just how I would like to see things pan out. Its usually better working together on such projects to get a consensus of opinion and pool ideas.
It would be great to finally work out how the community wants the death of the dragon and Azoun to play out (i.e. which settlements were attacked, who died, what was damaged etc) or what people wanted to happen with return of the archwizards, etc. Hopefully like me everyone would want no invincible Ghazneths or illogical phaerimm or swords made of shadow that instantly killed phaerimm.
Basically since the 3e timeline is now dead (maybe) it would be great if we could finally sort out the garbage that crept into it over time (and novels). Obviously it would only be for those that wanted to play in the 1350s to 1370s but would Khelben be dead, would Shade return, would Tilverton and that city in Sembia be erased. Its our realms why should we be dictated to by corporate nobodies out to make a fast buck.
As for history works, I'm rewriting the Netheril sourcebook to hopefully not be pants, I've done the history and I'm working through organisations, characters, and settlements. Not sure I could go near Delzoun or Ammarindar or Eaerlann or Miyeritar or Aryvandar. I need a minimum amount of lore to formulate ideas, coming up with stuff from scratch is too hard for me and lacks a feeling of legitimacy without someone like George Krashos, Eric Boyd, Steven Schend, Ed Greenwood, or the other great designers saying yay or nay to the suggestions.
I +1 this. I agree to all and any of it. I'm interested in anything pre-spell plague, going back as far as people want.
We could even focus on fleshing out the inconsistencies, or all the areas/cities we love that were never given much detail. I'm sure with the Underdark alone we'd have a life time worth of work.
I'm inclined to say something like we'd agree on a year say just prior to Khelben's death and work backward from there?
My head is still spinning a little from the events in Return of the Archwizards...yes I'm slow to catch up.
I've been living in my 1st ed gray box for about 20 years. |
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Campaign Setting
