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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe

Belgium
263 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2014 :  13:51:16  Show Profile Send Duneth Despana a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Well met,

I'm starting this scroll to try and gather as much info on Clan Auzkovyn as possible; why are they called a clan rather than house (like the Jaelre)?, where were they originally from in the Underdark?, How long exactly did they wander the Upperdark before settling in the High Forest?, What were their relations with the other factions of the High Forest during the 200 years spent there?,Do they have a clan symbol?

Also I'd love someone to suggest where in the Chamber of Sages I should poke around for answers on the matter.

In advance a heartfelt thank you.

« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4733 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2014 :  14:41:20  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Clan/House dilemma is a recurring problem in realmslore.

It happens with the dwarves.

Why are some orc groups referred to as clans and others referred to as tribes.

Size does not seem to be an indicator.


In the end, when running a game with Dalor Darden who wanted to play an orc we decided that a clan is an individual grouping with a single leader. They might all be related, or they might have joined from outside, but there is only one hierarchy within the group leading up to a central leader.

In a House/Tribe there are multiple clans that make up the House/Tribe so each grouping has their own hierarchy that then is part of the hierarchy of the house/tribe as a whole and the leaders of the clans are subordinate to the leader of the house/tribe (although the house/tribe leader might have his own clan to make things more complicated).

So you can have really large clans that dwarf smaller houses/tribes that contain two or more clans. But generally the bigger the clan gets the more likely that it will become a house/tribe by subduing neighbours (or cooperating with them in the case of good races).

So a small dwarven settlement might be owned/populated by one clan that essentially contains a single noble family. A large dwarven city might contain one or more houses that comprise of alliances of clans (each one a noble family perhaps) and it is likely that one of those houses rules the settlement.




At least that is just my take on it. Not sure if im right or not. I'm just working off the dwarf/orc model that i have had more experience with (orcs copied the dwarves).


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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe

Belgium
263 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2014 :  14:50:42  Show Profile Send Duneth Despana a Private Message  Reply with Quote
...the single leader the soon-to-be clan gathered around being Auzkovyn (the drow the clan is named after), got it. That only provokes the question... how, when and where did this change of social structure happen?

Hmmm... I guess a start would be to ask Eric L. Boyd and/or Elaine Cunningham, as to what relations the Dragon's Hoard had with clan Auzkovyn.

If and when I get an answer I'll post it here.

« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2014 :  15:32:21  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like the house > clan analogy, though by that line of thinking, every noble house from Menzo/Ched Nasad needs to have offshoots in other drow cities... (and I'm not saying it's a bad thing)

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe

Belgium
263 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2014 :  01:54:01  Show Profile Send Duneth Despana a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ooh! I just stumbled upon another mention of Clan Auzkovyn in Dragon#354 where it states that their alliance with House Jaelre is called the 'Masked Brigades'. (I haven't forgotten I said I would synthesize Elaine and Eric's answers on their respective scrolls here, I'll get around to it eventually)

« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe

Belgium
263 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2014 :  20:16:30  Show Profile Send Duneth Despana a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"The High Forest
Until recently, I had not realized the large numbers of green elves living in this old
wood. Taekar Greenbow, the Speaker of the tribe, seemed anxious at our meeting
and gave me a hurried tour of the area. I soon learned that the elves had been
under sporadic, but heavy, attacks by orcs and, more recently, DROW. Taekar suspects
there is an opening to the Underdark somewhere in the Star Mounts and the
two enemies are working together. The treants to the north refuse to get involved
and the druids are split as to whether they should help. Do they send for outside help
or not? Their fear is that if they let other elves, humans, or (the gods forbid) dwarves
into the woods, the forest will be destroyed by their axes, swords, and spells of fire. I
pointed out that the orcs and DROW were already doing this. My comment was huffed
at, and I drew several angry stares. Taekar and I had long discussions
about the future of the tribe. He told me that many of this tribe have left for
Evermeet and the few that remain (about 500) are too small in number to battle the
DARK ELVES and their allies. If he cannot convince the Circle to ask for outside
help, he is afraid that soon there will be one less tribe of green elves in the North."

From Dragon #222 ... not necessarily clan Auzkovyn drow, though.

« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1

Edited by - Duneth Despana on 08 Dec 2014 20:17:23
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1521 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2014 :  01:51:19  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting. I had forgotten about this article.

--Eric

quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana

"The High Forest
Until recently, I had not realized the large numbers of green elves living in this old
wood. Taekar Greenbow, the Speaker of the tribe, seemed anxious at our meeting
and gave me a hurried tour of the area. I soon learned that the elves had been
under sporadic, but heavy, attacks by orcs and, more recently, DROW. Taekar suspects
there is an opening to the Underdark somewhere in the Star Mounts and the
two enemies are working together. The treants to the north refuse to get involved
and the druids are split as to whether they should help. Do they send for outside help
or not? Their fear is that if they let other elves, humans, or (the gods forbid) dwarves
into the woods, the forest will be destroyed by their axes, swords, and spells of fire. I
pointed out that the orcs and DROW were already doing this. My comment was huffed
at, and I drew several angry stares. Taekar and I had long discussions
about the future of the tribe. He told me that many of this tribe have left for
Evermeet and the few that remain (about 500) are too small in number to battle the
DARK ELVES and their allies. If he cannot convince the Circle to ask for outside
help, he is afraid that soon there will be one less tribe of green elves in the North."

From Dragon #222 ... not necessarily clan Auzkovyn drow, though.


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe

Belgium
263 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2015 :  23:00:08  Show Profile Send Duneth Despana a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found another passage relevant to drow in the High Forest.

'In the Night Above, the Masked Lord is venerated in shallow woodland caves cloaked by layers of leaves of deep forest canopies that allow little light to reach the forest floor. Such shrines are typically located near or in small communities of surface-dwelling drow who seek the return of the drow to the Night Above as the Masked Lord has called for. One such temple and community may be found in the western fringes of the High Forest, just two days south of the River Dessarin's headwaters near the Lost Peaks.'

I think this is a reference to Nisstyre's outpost described in ch. 18 of Elaine Cunningham's 'Daughter of the Drow' rather than about the Auzkovyn, though.

« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1878 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2015 :  15:44:02  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
IMHO:
- "House" implies more of feudal or monarchy- like structure, an important part of which is having the single lord/lady and heir (at least, of the local branch).
- "Clan" implies more a "confederation" of households related by blood (have a common ancestor, preferably famous, like a Gaelic Clan), but not having a single hereditary head.
It's likely to have "the first among equals", of course, but if such a leader dies, who gets to sit in the best chair next will be a matter of influence, age or consensus between the clan's constituents. The heirs won't stand in a line according to their exact relations - this would matter for heirloom within a single household, but on a larger scale they are mostly independent.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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