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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2014 :  21:06:45  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Cooshee, Cath-shee. I assume the -shee suffix denotes elven.



I believe "shee" comes from the pronunciation of the Irish sidh, which originally referred to hills and mounds in the Irish countryside, believed to be inhabited by supernatural types such as faeries or elves. Later, the term kinda morphed, referring to the people themselves, instead of their believed dwelling places. The word Sidhe is a common variant of it, used in a lot of modern fantasy.



That's it, and in the elven dictionary here in CK, published by Steven Sypa, "cooshee" is translated as "faerie dog", "cath shee" as "faerie cat", and "shee" would mean "faerie". Maybe not official, but a very cool point of view (an elven cat - of the small kind - would be a "cath quessir").

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe

Ireland
212 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2014 :  00:34:39  Show Profile  Visit Roseweave's Homepage Send Roseweave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's a Caķt Sķdhe in my short stories which are loosely set in and around Waterdeep, named after Mr. Mistofelees from Cats the musical. I'm going with the idea that he's an actual feytouched cat. In a lot of mythology when an animal lives for long enough they become some sort of fairy creature(or Youkai). He doesn't shapeshift, but he's been known to. Most of the time he just lies around and teleports from place to place like the Cheshire Cat. There's a bunch of ways of approaching it.

http://crystallineprincess.tumblr.com/tagged/short-stories

(He appears in Clocksmith and the Cuckoo and Nine Tails University Pt. II)

Edited by - Roseweave on 13 Oct 2014 00:37:24
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe

Ireland
212 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2014 :  00:38:02  Show Profile  Visit Roseweave's Homepage Send Roseweave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
oh my god these american spellings of my language is hurting my eyes haha

Now i know what cultural appropriation feels like
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe

Ireland
212 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2014 :  00:38:35  Show Profile  Visit Roseweave's Homepage Send Roseweave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

Not lycanthropes, but skinwalker Druids of Rillifane Rallathil can possibly transform themselves into Cath Shee. But I think they don't keep the teleport ability, considering the rules that govern a druid's shapechange.



Interestingly, they can't turn into wolves. I've always thought there was a connection, there, though I've never come up with a good one.



There are fairies that can. There was an animation called The Secret of Kells made a few years back where the Fairy girl could shift into a Wolf.
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1965 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2014 :  01:03:37  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mister Mxyzptlk? I'm not sure what happened here.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out


Edited by - Fellfire on 13 Oct 2014 01:08:31
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2014 :  04:10:55  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Roseweave

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

Not lycanthropes, but skinwalker Druids of Rillifane Rallathil can possibly transform themselves into Cath Shee. But I think they don't keep the teleport ability, considering the rules that govern a druid's shapechange.



Interestingly, they can't turn into wolves. I've always thought there was a connection, there, though I've never come up with a good one.



There are fairies that can. There was an animation called The Secret of Kells made a few years back where the Fairy girl could shift into a Wolf.



We were speaking of skinwalkers of Rillifane in the Realms. They cannot turn into wolves.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2014 :  03:02:25  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We were speaking of skinwalkers of Rillifane in the Realms. They cannot turn into wolves.


But they can turn into cath shee, even if they don't have their magic powers.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2014 :  05:18:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We were speaking of skinwalkers of Rillifane in the Realms. They cannot turn into wolves.


But they can turn into cath shee, even if they don't have their magic powers.



True. I was just commenting on an interesting (to me, at least) aspect of the skinwalkers, since they had been brought up. I'm rather a fan of lythari, so that factoid takes much prominence, for me.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2065 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2014 :  23:40:54  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's some info on the racial origins of lythari in Races of Faerun, page 27.

--Eric

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

Elves of Evermeet (and then Demihuman Deities) says that they probably cannot turn into wolves probably because the lythari were once druids linked to wolf spirits, but their bond became so strong that sometime in their history they rose as a new race. So, wolf form would be restricted to them.



The thing is, though, it doesn't really explain why it would be restricted. Sure, I can get one group becoming so strongly bonded that it becomes practically second nature, but that's still not a racial change, and it still doesn't explain why someone else wouldn't be able to do the same thing.

We've never seen the lythari having a particular reverence for Rillifance. I'm not saying it's not there, but there is a difference between an ability granted to priests and an ability granted to an entire race, regardless of their divine affinity. Similarly, there is no mention of a reverence for Rillifane required for the ritual that turns non-lythari into lythari.

It is my suspicion that there was something the proto-lythari (those who were wolf skinwalkers of Rillifane and who became the first lythari) did that forever set them apart and marked them as special to Rillifane. It would have been some great service, performed as a group -- something epic, like perhaps slaying a demigod that threatened Rillifane, or stopping some dire threat to an elven community. As a reward, he made the wolf change be something innate to and limited to them.

Elaine's lythari have that gating ability that isn't in their official write-ups... There could be some connection there, too, I think. Perhaps there was some form of "elf wolf" (lyshee?) that had that ability, and those proto-lythari became unified with those wolves... Or maybe that's something that only some lythari know; a learned ability they get.



--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2014 :  00:37:23  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

There's some info on the racial origins of lythari in Races of Faerun, page 27.

--Eric

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

Elves of Evermeet (and then Demihuman Deities) says that they probably cannot turn into wolves probably because the lythari were once druids linked to wolf spirits, but their bond became so strong that sometime in their history they rose as a new race. So, wolf form would be restricted to them.



The thing is, though, it doesn't really explain why it would be restricted. Sure, I can get one group becoming so strongly bonded that it becomes practically second nature, but that's still not a racial change, and it still doesn't explain why someone else wouldn't be able to do the same thing.

We've never seen the lythari having a particular reverence for Rillifance. I'm not saying it's not there, but there is a difference between an ability granted to priests and an ability granted to an entire race, regardless of their divine affinity. Similarly, there is no mention of a reverence for Rillifane required for the ritual that turns non-lythari into lythari.

It is my suspicion that there was something the proto-lythari (those who were wolf skinwalkers of Rillifane and who became the first lythari) did that forever set them apart and marked them as special to Rillifane. It would have been some great service, performed as a group -- something epic, like perhaps slaying a demigod that threatened Rillifane, or stopping some dire threat to an elven community. As a reward, he made the wolf change be something innate to and limited to them.

Elaine's lythari have that gating ability that isn't in their official write-ups... There could be some connection there, too, I think. Perhaps there was some form of "elf wolf" (lyshee?) that had that ability, and those proto-lythari became unified with those wolves... Or maybe that's something that only some lythari know; a learned ability they get.








Ah, so it does, so it does

"The elves, despite their long history, are not true natives to
Faerūn. They came to Faerūn from the realm of Faerie twentyfive
millennia ago, passing through fey crossroads and backroads
that have long since been lost. The first elves to arrive were the
Sy-tel-quessir (green elves), the Ly-tel-quessir (lythari), and the
Aril-tel-quessir (avariel). Of these original three races, only the
green elves, now known as the wild elves, survive in any number.
The avariel are nearly extinct now, having fought many terrible
wars with the dragons of the ancient world. The lythari have
changed so far from their elven roots that they are regarded by
most Faerūnian scholars as a separate race from the Tel-quessir."

[/b] more interesting of this is this piece. It kind of squashes the theory that the Ilythiiri and the Lythari have some kind of similar background and that one is just a corruption of the name of the other (which is kind of sad.... I liked it).[/b]


"The second wave of elves to travel to Faerūn included the
Ssri-tel-quessir (destined to become the drow). They were the
most successful, emerging from the southern jungles of Faerūn
and quickly establishing grand empires in their new home."

and

"To the south, in what is now the Vilhon Reach, rose the three green elf nations of Thearnytaar, Eiellūr, and Syņpiir, while two more realms arose in the forests that once covered the Shaar: Orishaar of the moon elves, and Ilythiir of the dark elves."



Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1965 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2015 :  15:47:00  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Skin-walkers of Rillifane. Where can I find more about them?

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2449 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2015 :  17:14:43  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Demihuman Deities, under the section for Rillifane. All of Rillifane's specialty priests are druids, and green elven druids are sometimes called skinwalkers. All of Rillifane's druids have an optional ability to exchange the normal 2e druid's ability to shapeshift three times into three separate animals for being able to shift into one particular animal for an increasing amount of times per week, then per day, then at will as their level increases. They need to get the instruction from a skinwalker (green elf), but it isn't restricted to green elves.

Aside from that change, and that it allows elves to be druids at all, there isn't anything different between Rillifane's druids and normal druids.

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2015 :  10:01:30  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

Demihuman Deities, under the section for Rillifane.


Right, but as a new version on the original found in Elves of Evermeet. But yes, I think the Demihuman Deities version is a bit better, even if it still had some flaws. I wrote my own version, very similar to the original but with a few - needed - corrections.

EDIT: Checked the originals and my version, and actually some clarifications were needed (specially on the healing power of the druid), but some alterations were made according to my taste. It's 2e game mechanics fanwork for my personal use, but I can share it if anyone has interest.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 21 Dec 2015 11:42:54
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe

Ireland
212 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2016 :  00:06:52  Show Profile  Visit Roseweave's Homepage Send Roseweave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In my Realms-ish based fics, Nine Tales University(Monster High/Rosario Vampire kind of thing), Charlie/Mr. Misotoffelees is a Cait Sķdhe who was a familiar to the main character's adoptive mother, and becomes her sidekick. He's basically the Chesire cat. He hasn't shapeshifted yet, but I'm starting to write those stories again and they'll feature more heavily.

http://crystallineprincess.tumblr.com/tagged/short-stories

I think he appears in Clocksmith and the Cuckoo or one of the other fics too.

Edited by - Roseweave on 12 Jan 2016 00:07:38
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2017 :  19:45:22  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And, as a slightly off-topic response to the thread, there is this novel in Sembia in which a half-wood elf girl, related to a Skinwalker, has the power to turn into a tressym... Didn't remember the novel's name, now.

Edited by - Barastir on 24 Sep 2017 19:46:43
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2017 :  02:54:49  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In my completely non-FR homebrew setting, I have it where all 'elves' (I don't even use that term - humans sometimes do, but that race finds it offensive) have the ability to shape-shift naturally, into one particular animal form. Certain clans/groups have more of an affinity toward a certain type of creature (like wolves, which is fairly common), but others can be just about anything. Extremely powerful folk can sometimes learn to assume more than one form (as a natural ability, not a 'spell').

It was experimentation with some captured 'wolf types' that lead to the creation of werewolves (and other lycanthropes). The existence of 'half-breeds' is unheard of in my world, and when they do occur, they are considered 'abominations'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 25 Sep 2017 06:19:06
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2017 :  12:44:11  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

In my completely non-FR homebrew setting, I have it where all 'elves' (...) have the ability to shape-shift naturally, into one particular animal form. Certain clans/groups have more of an affinity toward a certain type of creature (...), but others can be just about anything. Extremely powerful folk can sometimes learn to assume more than one form (as a natural ability, not a 'spell').
(...)


Sort of reminded me of Dragonlance Irda. This shapechange includes more magical forms, like unicorns and cath shee? Maybe giant versions of animals?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2018 :  15:43:33  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire

Does anybody recognize this pic (...)?


It's a beautiful picture, way better than the official ones of Cath Shee. Although its tail is short, more like a giant lynx.

Another option would be Watchmen Ozymandias' cat, Bubastis.

Both lack the Cath Shee's saber-tooth fangs, though.

EDIT: Substitution of Fellfire's dead link for another with the same picture.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 18 Jun 2018 15:46:48
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2018 :  01:56:39  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, that is a pretty picture. It says the artist is Kerem Beyit.

https://kerembeyit.deviantart.com/

Just sharing because I've just noted how often a picture can just one ideas.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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