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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2014 :  05:24:05  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I wasn't sure if you all would be interested in seeing what I'm doing with Waterdeep on my homebrewed world, Kulan. The bulk of the work is going to be done on E.N. World, but I want to get the opinions of Realmsian fans.

My goals for this thread is to ask tons of questions about Waterdeep (circa 1368 DR) and to get advice on how best to approach incorporating Realms-based material into another world. I' going to limit my scope here to "Deepwater" and its immediate surroundings.

ROBERT BLEZARD
"I write; therefore, I am!"

Heroes of Deepwater

Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2014 :  05:55:45  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I decided several years ago that I wanted to place both Waterdeep and Undermountain in my homebrewed world. However, I was hesitant at first since Kulan has its own unique feel and I was worried that the lore of Waterdeep would either get washed away or come to dominate the world. Eventually, my need to bring Waterdeep into my homebrew won out and Waterdeep found its way onto the Chara Coast of what I call the Lands of Harqual.

I immediately decided I wanted to rename the city so that my future players wouldn't know it's Waterdeep. The first name I came up with was awful — Acquadeipe. (Ick!) I lived with it for quite some time before I decided to create a better name. I played around with several options but soon i realized that it would be better to simply change Waterdeep to Deepwater. I also came up with another alternate name, which has since grown on me — Prachtenstad. That name is used mainly by scholars and historians when referring to the city's past.

I also renamed Undermountain to Bergunter Masse, or Mountain Under the Earth. Unlike with the name Acquadeipe, I came to like the dungeon's new name and it has stuck ever since. Around Deepwater are lands that are very similar to those around Waterdeep. The Ratruin exists. The Stump Bog exists. The Ardeep exists, although my version is smaller due to the limitations of the region. My version of the Ardeep is called the Deep Woods (or, alternately, the Ashwood). There are versions of various Realmsian communities but the names have been changed. Amphail is called Laipham, Rassalantar is called Rarnalar, and Goldenfields is called the House of Fields.

I'm not sure how much of the Realmsian canon will make it into Deepwater.

Note: Toril doesn't exist in my homebrewed cosmology. Instead, I've pulled the world apart and placed in on several worlds. Zakhara, for example, exists in an alternate form on the other side of Kulan.

Edited by - Knightfall on 04 Oct 2014 07:15:45
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2014 :  06:17:09  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Knightfall

I wasn't sure if you all would be interested in seeing what I'm doing with Waterdeep on my homebrewed world, Kulan.
Bring it!

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2014 :  06:49:23  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

quote:
Originally posted by Knightfall

I wasn't sure if you all would be interested in seeing what I'm doing with Waterdeep on my homebrewed world, Kulan.
Bring it!


Okay then, expect a wave of information!

First, the gods...

Deities: Part One
The gods of the Lands of Harqual are not the gods of Toril renamed. Instead, I've built my own pantheons, which will replace the FR gods for Deepwater. That's the easy explanation.

There are a few of the Realmsian gods that people will recognize, but they are the Real World equivalents for the most part -- Ilmater*, Loviatar, Mielikki, Oghma, and Tyr (dead)*.

Tyr is dead because Ragnarok has occurred in my cosmology. Neither Ilmater nor Tyr are known in the Lands of Harqual. They are worshiped on the other side of the planet. Loviatar and Mielikki are known as Interlopers on Harqual while Oghma is a Transformation deity. (The easiest way to explain The Transformation is call it my own version of a RSE. It transitioned my campaign setting from 2E to 3E.)

Other Realms deities that exist elsewhere on Kulan: Akadi (Fallenlanden deity), Amaunator (Kanpurian deity), Auppenser (Janardűn deity), Bhaal (Kanpurian deity), Eilistraee (World deity), Ghaunadaur (World deity), Gilgeam (Kanpurian deity), Grumbar (Fallenlanden deity), Ibrandul (World deity), Istishia (Fallenlanden deity), Kossuth (Fallenlanden deity), Nobanion (Kanpurian deity), Tiamat (Archdevil), and Vhaeraun (Kanpurian deity).

Now, it's important for me to note that there are No Native Drow on the World of Kulan. The drow deities I've listed here are worshiped by either my homebrewed elven races or an "orphaned" half-drow race I borrowed from a d20 System sourcebook.

Any god or goddess listed as a World deity has worshipers located across the entire planet, although there will be places where they are rare. This means that on Harqual, Eilistraee, Ghaunadaur, and Ibrandul all have places of worship dedicated to them. Tiamat falls into the same category as the World deities, so the archdevil is worshiped in the Lands of Harqual.

Thus, for Deepwater, if canon Waterdeep sources refer to any of the Realms deities listed below, those deities have a place in Harqual's Deepwater, although likely majorly modified.

Realms Deities for Deepwater
Eilistraee, Ghaunadaur, Ibrandul, Loviatar, Mielikki, Oghma, and Tiamat.

Edited by - Knightfall on 04 Oct 2014 22:42:43
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2014 :  06:55:33  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I should also note that all the Finnish gods detailed in the 2E PLANESCAPE sourcebook On Hallowed Ground are worshiped on Kulan. A few of the other Finnish deities are considered Interlopers on Harqual or are a member of one of the two main pantheons of the continent.

Edited by - Knightfall on 04 Oct 2014 07:19:03
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2014 :  08:45:35  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Noteworthy
Other official D&D cities/towns and site that exist on the same continent as Deepwater. The master list on The Piazza is always being updated.

Wanterdeep and Undermountain
• City of Splendors boxed set
• City of Splendors: Waterdeep [3E]
• "Expedition to Undermountain" [3E]
• "The Ruins of Undermountain"
• Volo's Guide to Waterdeep

Karameikos (called the Kingdom of Ahamudia): Like Deepwater, it has a unique history (unrelated to Mystara) on Harqual.
• B5 "Horror on the Hill"
• B6 "The Veiled Society"
• B10 "Night's Dark Terror"
• "Hail the Heroes"
• X12 "Skarda's Mirror"

Other
• C2 "The Ghost Tower of Inverness"
• Cauldron (Shackled City AP) [3E]
• City-State of Tyr *
• College of Wizardry (Mathghamhna)
• DD1 "Barrow of the Forgotten Kings" [3E]
• DD2 "The Sinister Spire" [3E]
• DD3 "Fortress of the Yuan-ti" [3E]
• Delzomen's Iceforge [D&D Frostburn (pp. 167-177)] [3E]
• "Hellgate Keep"
• Istivin: City of Shadows (called Nikel) [3E]: will be heavily modified
• Sasserine (Savage Tide AP) [3E]
• T1-4 "Temple of Elemental Evil"
• "The Silver Key" (Honshar is called Liran)
• Thunder Rift
• WG4 "The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun"
• X2 "Castle Amber"

* Tyr was duplicated on the continent during The Transformation. It is noteworthy in the fact that it exists in the Lands of Harqual in a mountain range that is relatively close to Deepwater (138 miles between the two cities).

Edited by - Knightfall on 04 Oct 2014 08:53:51
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2014 :  14:47:03  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very cool - I will be borrowing some of this.

This is how my Waterdeep is in my Misbegotten Realms (my amalgam world). I've blended just about everything into my world (and what stray bits I wanted but didn't fit I stuck on a 'sister world' on the other side of the sun... Abeir!) After a stray comment I made the other day about Wtaerdeep (now) reminding me of Gotham, I decided to even put a 'Legion of Doom' style bad-guy-hangout over in the Mere of Dead Men. Once you decide to break from canon, there is no limits to to what you can achieve.

And yet... it all still looks & feels just like the Forgotten Realms... not sure how I did that...

You can see a tiny little piece of my current project HERE. Note the huge island - controlled by Waterdeep - I added (amongst other things).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 04 Oct 2014 14:49:30
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2014 :  22:39:50  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Very cool - I will be borrowing some of this.

Borrow away. I'll be posting my revised Noble Houses here too. But more about the gods worshiped on Harqual first.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

This is how my Waterdeep is in my Misbegotten Realms (my amalgam world). I've blended just about everything into my world (and what stray bits I wanted but didn't fit I stuck on a 'sister world' on the other side of the sun... Abeir!) After a stray comment I made the other day about Wtaerdeep (now) reminding me of Gotham, I decided to even put a 'Legion of Doom' style bad-guy-hangout over in the Mere of Dead Men. Once you decide to break from canon, there is no limits to to what you can achieve.

And yet... it all still looks & feels just like the Forgotten Realms... not sure how I did that...

I'm the same way. I'm blending a lot into Deepwater. There will still be all the Realmsian organizations linked to Waterdeep but most of them will have different names and revised backgrounds. Also, since Deepwater is more neutral than good, I'll be adding in some darker aspects to the city. However, I'm going to try to refrain from steeping in in evil.

I'm sure Deepwater will be very different once I have the framework finished.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

You can see a tiny little piece of my current project HERE. Note the huge island - controlled by Waterdeep - I added (amongst other things).

I like the addition of the island. In your alternate history, has the island always been there? Or is it a more recent volcanic formation?
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2014 :  23:40:31  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Deities: Part Two
First up, here is a list of the Realmsian gods that don't have an equivalent on Kulan: Finder Wyvernspur, Gwaeron Windstrom, Kiaransalee, Lolth, Red Knight, and Selvetarm.

These deities don't exist in the cosmology, not even Lolth.

There are six main groups/categories for deities in the Lands of Harqual: North Gods, Sword Gods, Interloper Gods, Transformation Gods, World Gods, and Dead Gods.

North Gods are the deities worshiped primarily by good and neutral peoples who have a connection to the traditions of the barbarians of the Northlands.

Sword Gods are the deities worshiped primarily by evil (and some neutral) peoples who have a connection to the Old Sword Imperium.

Interloper Gods are the deities worshiped by a variety of peoples who don't have a connection (usually) to the bitter rivalries that came about as a result of the godwar between the North Gods and the Sword Gods.

Transformation Gods are the deities worshiped by peoples who were transported/duplicated on Harqual during the magical event known as The Transformation. These gods didn't have worshipers in the Lands of Harqual before the event, although some were already classified as World Gods.

World Gods are the deities worshiped across most, if not all, of Kulan. This includes the deities of the demihumans and monstrous races, as well as deities with far-reaching aspects to their portfolios.

Dead Gods are the deities that died during the Divinity War between the North Gods and the Sword Gods. Their worshipers either have kept the deity's worship alive as cults or have been absorbed into the faiths of other deities (often Interlopers).

Each Realmsian deity has an Kulan equivalent, which it converts too. (See HERE on The Piazza for my conversion chart.) I've tried to keep alignment in mind, but the process wasn't an exact one. In some cases, I may choose to pick a different deity for a Waterdeep-based character.

The following Realmsian deities are equivalent to the noted North God/Goddess (including those that have died): Chauntea [NG] becomes the Daghdha [N]; Deneir [NG] becomes Truce [LG] (dead); Eldath [NG] becomes Casiia [CG]; Gond [N] becomes Hades [LN]; Helm [LN] becomes Cull [LN]; Jergal [LN] becomes Hades [LN]; Kelemvor [LN] becomes Hades [LN]; Lliira [CG] becomes Euphoria [CG] (dead); Lurue [CG] becomes Brenna [NG]; Mystra [NG] becomes Immotion [NG]; Selűne [CG] becomes Ramara [NG]; Sharess [CG] becomes Bast [CG]; Shiallia [NG] becomes Larea [NG]; Siamorphe [LN] becomes Mayela [LG]; Silvanus [N] becomes the Daghdha [N]; Sune [CG] becomes Ramara [NG]; Talos [CE] becomes Hansa [CN]; Tempus [CN] becomes Inanna [LN]; Tymora [CG] becomes Kuil [NG]; and Uthgar [CN] becomes Cronn [CG].

The following Realmsian deities are equivalent to the noted Sword God/Goddess (including those that have died): Bane [LE] becomes Nether [NE]; Cyric [CE] becomes Belinik [CE]; Gargos [CN] becomes Thera [CE] (dead); Gargauth [LE] becomes Teve [LE] (dead); Hoar [LN] becomes Amand [LE] (dead); Talona [CE] becomes Mussin [NE]; and Velsharoon [NE] becomes Xuar [NE].

The following Realmsian deities are equivalent to the noted Interloper God/Goddess: Auril [NE] becomes Uller [CN]; Azuth [LN] becomes Boccob [N]; Malar [CE] becomes Konkresh [CN]; Mask [NE] becomes Olidammara [CN]; Shar [NE] becomes Xan Yae [N]; Shaundakul [CN] becomes Ptah [LN]; Torm [LG] becomes Valkar [CG]; Umberlee [CE] becomes Rán [CN]; and Valkur [CG] becomes Persana [N].

The following Realmsian deities are equivalent to the noted Transformation God/Goddess: Beshaba [CE] becomes Tyche [N] and Savras [LN] becomes Thoth [N].

The following Realmsian deities are equivalent to the noted World God/Goddess: Ubtao [N] becomes Herigga [N]; Ulutiu [LN] becomes Telchur [CN]; and Waukeen [N] becomes Velit [LN].

Edited by - Knightfall on 05 Oct 2014 03:19:06
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  00:45:13  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
DEEPWATER
Proper Name(s): City-state of Deepwater, Free City of Deepwater, The City of Splendors, The City on the Deep Waters, The Shining City; Prachtenstad (archaic)
Rulers: The Lords of the Free City
Government: Oligarchy
Capital: Deepwater
Major Towns: Dargat Sand (pop. -- 600), Deepwater (pop. -- 134,000), Dorhout Town (pop. -- 1,100), Glanskust Town (pop. -- 3,700), Laipham (pop. -- 150), Rarnalar (pop. -- 100).
Provinces: One lordship and eight knight-holds.
Resources: Armor and barding, furnishings, leather goods, textiles (any), and weapons.
Coinage: Maan (platinum/electrum coin, equals 25 taols), Taol (brass coin, equals 2 havens), Haven (gp), Silver (sp).
Population: 1,545,000 -– Human 60%, Dwarf (hill and sundered) 11%, Elf (urbanite) 9%, Halfling (hairfoot) 6%, Half-Elf 4%, Halfling (fire river) 3%, Cat Races 2%, Half-Orc 2%, Other Races 2%
Languages: Aquan, Charan, Common, Dwarven, Elven, Ervenik (increasing), Halfling, Kitt, Nebralese (decreasing), Orc, Rethanthi, Shoal, Taal.
Alignments: All alignments, dominated by the Lawful alignments with LN being the primary of the three.
Patron God: None.
Major Religions: Aegir, Apollo, Boccob, Cyrrollalee, the Daghdha, Dike, Dugmaren, Hades, Hanali, Immotion, Inanna, Kord, Kuil, Lokun, Mayela, Mielikki, Muamman, Oghma, Persana, Ramara, Rhea, Sanh, Thoth, and Velit.
Minor Religions: Abbathor, Angrboda, Aoskar, Berronar, Bast, Belinik, Calphas, Cronn, Darahl, Erecura (local deity), Gaea, Hansa, Heward, Labelas, Loviatar, Math Mathonwy, Melira, Mussin, Olidammara, Rán, Rosmerta (local deity), Sheela, Tethrin, Tyche, Wee Jas, and Xan Yae.
Shrines and Cults: Alathrien, Amand, Anacoro, Arduinna (local deity), Aurifar, Baervan, Cronus, Dagon, Druaga, Eadro, Emcey, Jaeger, Manannan mac Lir, Santč, Sekolah, Shoku, Sialic, Teve, Thera, Trithereon, Truce, Untamo, Uranus, Urogalan, Vagdavercustis (local deity), Vergadain, Vespin, Yeathan, and Zisa (local deity).
Alliances: Chara Cities (varies, but non-aggression with Hellekan); Eversinki Suzerainty (minor trade agreements); Hawkgard Holds (non-aggression); Hold of Baggar's Rift (protectorate); Kingdom of Izmer (non-aggression); Scattertown (non-aggression); Storm Domain (trade alliance).

This is an updated listing of the gazetteer entry for Deepwater. It has been altered slightly compared the latest version on E.N. World. What is here is now the up-to-date version for my campaign world. The sizes of the communities have all been increased, I've added in more of my homebrewed languages (some based on the Realms ethnic groups), tweaked the population numbers, and updated the various names and nicknames for the city.

Note the Major and Minor Religions that exist in the city and its vassal communities, as well as the various Shrines and Cults that exist. Note that not all of the cults are bad. Some are dedicated to the fallen North Gods; however, there are evil cults dedicated to the Sword Gods as well. Note that many World Gods not normally found in the Lands of Harqual are usually listed under Shrines and Cults but not always.

There is another type of deity for Kulan that a forgot to mention -- Small Gods. These deities are local deities that aren't usually worshiped anywhere else on the World of Kulan or have different sects of worshipers from one continent to another.

Edited by - Knightfall on 06 Oct 2014 01:53:57
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  01:53:13  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Distances (estimates)
Deepwater to the center of the Stump Bog: 47 miles
Deepwater to Dargat Sand: 9 miles
Deepwater to Dorhout Town: 46 miles
Deepwater to Glanskust Town: 22 miles
Deepwater to House of Fields: 57 miles
Deepwater to Laipham: 35 miles
Deepwater to Rarnalar: 30 miles
Deepwater to the Ratruin: 6 miles
----------------------------
Deepwater to Hellekan*: 40 miles
Deepwater to Hold of Baggar's Rift: 60 miles
Deepwater to Larrabinal (ruin in the Great Expanse): 76 miles
Deepwater to Seagard (on Hawkgard Island): 55 miles
Deepwater to Shoalcrag (on Wyrmgard Island): 40 miles
Deepwater to the center of the Deep Woods: 28 miles
Deepwater to Vylend (in Izmer): 45 miles

*Hellekan is the closest of the Chara Cities.
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  03:00:43  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Deities: Part Three
Here the final part detailing how my homebrewed pantheons and other deities interact with Deepwater. Now, not every one of these deities has their church, temple, shrine, or cult within the walls of Deepwater. All the deities listed as "major" have a presence in the city while "minor" faiths can be either inside the city or outside. Shrines dedicated to the Sword Gods are located either in Skullport* or somewhere deeper in Bergunter Masse. Those cults without a shrine are more fluid. They tend to be all the rage amongst Deepwater's nobility.

North Gods
Aegir (major), Anacoro (dead, cult and shrine), Bast (minor), the Daghdha (major), Cronn (minor), Hades (major), Hansa (minor), Immotion (major), Inanna (major), Jaeger (dead, shrine), Kuil (major), Lokun (major), Mayela (major), Ramara (major), Sanh (major), Santč (dead, shrine), Sialic (dead, cult), and Truce (dead, shrine).

The North Gods have a strong presence in Deepwater with 10 major churches/temples in the city.

Sword Gods
Amand (dead, cult), Angrboda (minor), Belinik (minor), Druaga (shrine), Emcey (dead, cult), Math Mathonwy (minor), Mussin (minor), Shoku (dead, cult), Teve (dead, shrine), Thera (dead, cult and shrine), and Vespin (dead, cult and shrine).

The Sword Gods don't have a single major temple in the city. The temple dedicated to Math Mathonwy is the most visible Sword God religious structure in the city. Angrboda and Mussin's temples are hidden underground.

Interloper Gods
Apollo (major), Boccob (major), Calphas (minor), Dike (major), Kord (major), Heward (minor), Loviatar (minor), Mielikki (major), Olidammara (minor), Persana (major), Rán (minor), Wee Jas (minor), and Xan Yae (minor).

As you can see from this list, many of the Interloper Gods are either real world deities or gods from Greyhawk. The World of Greyhawk, like Toril, doesn't exist in Kulan's cosmology. That world exists in another universe. The Greyhawk gods are considered alien to the Mirrored Cosmology and they are less powerful on Kulan (a greater deity becomes a intermediate deity, intermediates become lesser, etc.).

Transformation Gods
Cronus (cult and shrine), Gaea (minor), Manannan mac Lir (shrine), Oghma (major), Rhea (major), Thoth (major), Tyche (minor), Untamo (cult), and Uranus (cult and shrine).

These deities were not worshiped in the Lands of Harqual before the events of The Transformation. They were worshiped on Kulan, however, in lands located on the far side of the planet. Most of these Transformation deities are likely destined to become Interloper or World gods.

Small Gods
Arduinna (cult and shrine), Erecura (minor), Rosmerta (minor), Vagdavercustis (cult and shrine), and Zisa (cult and shrine).

These deities are local deities worshiped primarily in Deepwater. A few have spread elsewhere.

World Gods
Abbathor (minor), Alathrien (shrine), Aoskar (minor), Aurifar (cult), Baervan (shrine), Berronar (minor), Cyrrollalee (major), Dagon (cult and shrine), Darahl (minor), Dugmaren (major), Eadro (shrine), Hanali (major), Labelas (minor), Melira (minor), Muamman (major), Sekolah (cult), Sheela (minor), Tethrin (minor), Trithereon (shrine), Urogalan (shrine), Velit (major), Vergadain (shrine), and Yeathan (cult and shrine).

The worship of World Gods tends to fluctuate. Very few of these deities not associated with the demihuman races have permanent temples in the Lands of Harqual. However, there are exceptions. Aoskar is popular with planewalking adventurers and Velit is a major god dedicated to sea trade.

*I might come up with an alternate name for Skullport.

Edited by - Knightfall on 05 Oct 2014 03:15:29
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  03:09:40  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm tempted to post lists of the various pantheons but that might be too much. So, I'll leave it to all of you. Do you want more information about the various gods of Harqual before I move on to my revised nobility?
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  04:15:56  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I prefer nobility to deities.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  07:18:14  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For those of you who might be interested, I have uploaded my latest version of my timeline for the Lands of Harqual on my Facebook group. [LINK]

The file includes Deepwater's history as part of the Lands of Harqual.
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  08:07:25  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

I prefer nobility to deities.


I'm just going to dive into the nobility since that is what I want to do anyway. :)

Introductory section...

Noble Families of Deepwater
These are the major noble houses of the Free City of Deepwater. some of them correspond to the noble families either detailed in “Chapter 2: People of Waterdeep,” pp. 59-64, in the City of Splendors: Waterdeep sourcebook for D&D v.3.5 or detailed in “Chapter 2: Waterdhavian Nobility,” pp. 5-30, in the Who's Who in Waterdeep book in the AD&D 2E boxed set City of Splendors. However, there are a few unique noble families that I have included in the list, which are noted below.

I have changed a lot about the noble houses. Alignments won't always match the canon versions of the NPCs. Some of the NPCs have been moved towards neutrality since the city is more neutral than good in my campaign setting. Nothing is a given in this version of Waterdeep. Almost all the NPC names have been changed and levels have been reduced for all NPCs (usually by 2/3rds). Ages have also be reduced but that has been harder for me to figure out.

Official ability scores have been either increased or decreased depending on whether or not the character's score was above or below 10 to 11. Thus, a canon score of 8 becomes 9 while a 18 becomes 17. If a AD&D 2E Strength score would result in a number over 19 the score is reduced by two. If I come across a number below 5 (for any ability score), it will increase by two.
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
148 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  08:27:31  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ADDEBRECHT
Prominent Members
Patriarch: Roy Addebrecht (LG male Taali human, Ari6 [INT 15, CHA 16]).
Spouse: Deceased.
Children: Aldert Addebrecht (NG male Rethanthi human, Ari1/Exp5 [WIS 14]; eldest son and heir), Elian Addebrecht (LG male Taali human, Ari2 [CON 9, INT 16]; third child), Stefana Addebrecht (CG female Taali human, Ari1/Ftr3 [STR 16, CON 14, CHA 17]).
Other(s): Filip Azinamid (CG male Charan human, Wiz3; Stefana's lover).

Other Details
Ennobled: 707 N.C.
Holdings: N39, Port Saul (Isle of Arek)
Trade and Interests: Cartography, exploration, navigating and shipping.
Resource Limit (gp): 15,000
Membership (nobles): 22
Predominant Alignments: Any good, plus Neutral
Favored Deities: Bast (CG), Persana (N)
DM's Note: This noble family is equivalent to the Adarbrent family.

The Addebrecht family has been a member of Deepwater's nobility for 51 years. Maps are their specialty, and they one of the noble families that discovered the Isles of Valossa. There are rumors that Lord Aldert is not actually Lord Roy's son since he is visibly of his mother's bloodline.

The reduced levels are based on what is in the 3E sourcebook for Waterdeep (I think). I've been going back and forth between that book and the City of Splendors boxed set so much that I can't say for certain that the levels match my 2/3rds rule. I'm certain the ability scores are based on what is in the boxed set, however.

Since Persana is the substitute for Valkur, the deity is one of the house's favored deities. Bast is a toss in in order to give the house a deity that matches Valkur's alignment.

Any questions?

----------------------------------
Notes about Ethnic Groups
• Charan is the homebrewed name I've given to the Calishite ethnicity. On Harqual, their origins are along the Chara Coast south of Deepwater. There are also many Charans in the on the western side of the Patron Mountains in the Great Expanse (desert).
• Rethanthi is the homebrewed name I've given to the Chondathan ethnicity. On Harqual, their origins begin in the lands of the Storm Peninsula.
• Taali is the homebrewed name I've given to the Illuskan ethnicity. Om Harqual, their origins are directly tied into the background of Deepwater. Taali are also common in the Kingdom of Izmer to the north of The Shining City.

Edited by - Knightfall on 05 Oct 2014 21:02:47
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Markustay
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Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  14:43:47  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Knightfall

Also, since Deepwater is more neutral than good, I'll be adding in some darker aspects to the city. However, I'm going to try to refrain from steeping in in evil.
Mine is much the same. My Skullport isn't in the Undedark - I don't use the Underdark (as written). I find it tiresome and inefficient, so I place everything near the surface instead. Sure, there is a network of 'deep caverns' that still connect everything, but the only folks that use them would be aberrations (like the Illithids), because no sane race would want to travel around down there. Thus, MY Skullport is directly IN Undermountain (hence the name!)- its literally just inside the mountain and above sea level (which also eliminates the need for those silly-ass sea-gates to get there). That makes it just another district of Waterdeep itself (a REALLY bad district that normal people avoid, even 'common' criminals).

quote:
Originally posted by Knightfall

I like the addition of the island. In your alternate history, has the island always been there? Or is it a more recent volcanic formation?
Always been there. The island is used by the waterdeep navy, which is MUCH larger IMG. Only a dozen or so ships can be found in WD harbor, but they have more like a hundred, and the caves on the northern face of the island are large enough for a completely sheltered, massive harbor and drydock. All of WD's naval ship-building goes on there. The village is where they get their lumber; only WD workers and their families may live there - no unauthorized personal are allowed on the island (the town and base both have land troops and patrol regularly).

The Mountain contains a clan of dwarves - they build the famous (infamous?) Waterdeep naval cannons (my tech-level is more on-par with the Pirates of the Caribbean movies - I really do love pirate/sea campaigns!) Although several Realms nations have and use cannon now, WD is the only one to have the triple-barreled spinning cannons (seen on Davy Jone's ship in that movie). However, only the flagship and the sea fort at WD have them - they are extremely hard to build and maintain.

My game is (VERY) roughly set in the new time period, mostly because I want to use the 5e material moving forward, However, I still use the old sourcebooks for all the other locations, which means the people in the Volo's guides (and everywhere else) are all still around (they are not old, my timeline just ran differently is all). In the new era - if you follow whats going on in Neverwinter - Waterdeep has 'imperial aspirations', which I ran with for MY Realms. Its not 'evil', more like neutral-greedy (think 1600's England just prior to their meteoric rise).

The idea is that a large Kingdom directly to the south (New Emyrea, from the Egg of phoenix series - you can see Shell there on that map snippet) fell about a hundred years ago, which ties in well with MANY of the other things I have going on (you'd be surprised how many published adventures start out, "About a century ago..."). Something major happened then, and many old empires fell (Eberron, anyone?), and the world is still trying to re-establish itself. Waterdeep now sees its chance to grab all the surrounding lands for itself, some of which were once part of Empyrea (like the Dukedom of Daggerford). However, there are forces trying to rebuild Empyrea itself (see that adventure path), and Thay is also nearby and wanting to grab land for itself (only the top tier of the plateau is devastated by undead, and Szass Tam sits there like a Sauron wanna-be, licking his wounds from that debacle a century earlier). So we have TONS of intrigue all going on in the background, with lots of political maneuvering by several powers all vying for control.

The map snippet I posted was just a tiny piece of a blown-up portion of my Campaign Map just showing the Neverwinter area. The larger map is more like the one I posted HERE (but I have made a lot of changes to that map since then - the 'Solarian Empire' no longer exists - it was redundant). The Neverwinter region map is just about done (and sorry to anyone waiting for maps from me, but the game I run for my boys comes FIRST ), and I should be able to post it very soon... just a couple more 'tweaks'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 05 Oct 2014 18:56:46
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Knightfall
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Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  20:58:44  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Knightfall

Also, since Deepwater is more neutral than good, I'll be adding in some darker aspects to the city. However, I'm going to try to refrain from steeping in in evil.
Mine is much the same. My Skullport isn't in the Undedark - I don't use the Underdark (as written). I find it tiresome and inefficient, so I place everything near the surface instead. Sure, there is a network of 'deep caverns' that still connect everything, but the only folks that use them would be aberrations (like the Illithids), because no sane race would want to travel around down there. Thus, MY Skullport is directly IN Undermountain (hence the name!)- its literally just inside the mountain and above sea level (which also eliminates the need for those silly-ass sea-gates to get there). That makes it just another district of Waterdeep itself (a REALLY bad district that normal people avoid, even 'common' criminals).

Kulan's underdark in known as the Underearth. Since there aren't any drow, the Underearth has become dominated by morlocks (per the Bastards & Bloodlines d20 sourcebook put out by Green Ronin), as well as by derro (deep) and duergar (near the surface). I've considered adding the Hollow Earth idea to Kulan but, so far, I have resisted. More likely, there will be something akin to the Sunless Sea in the Night Below boxed set -- but bigger.

Deepwater's version of Skullport likely will be how it is normally depicted (without any drow, of course). I haven't delved into modifying it or Undermountain, yet.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Knightfall

I like the addition of the island. In your alternate history, has the island always been there? Or is it a more recent volcanic formation?
Always been there. The island is used by the waterdeep navy, which is MUCH larger IMG. Only a dozen or so ships can be found in WD harbor, but they have more like a hundred, and the caves on the northern face of the island are large enough for a completely sheltered, massive harbor and drydock. All of WD's naval ship-building goes on there. The village is where they get their lumber; only WD workers and their families may live there - no unauthorized personal are allowed on the island (the town and base both have land troops and patrol regularly).

The Mountain contains a clan of dwarves - they build the famous (infamous?) Waterdeep naval cannons (my tech-level is more on-par with the Pirates of the Caribbean movies - I really do love pirate/sea campaigns!) Although several Realms nations have and use cannon now, WD is the only one to have the triple-barreled spinning cannons (seen on Davy Jone's ship in that movie). However, only the flagship and the sea fort at WD have them - they are extremely hard to build and maintain.

Keep to the Code!

I now have this image of tons of dwarven pirates sailing across your version of the Realms.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

My game is (VERY) roughly set in the new time period, mostly because I want to use the 5e material moving forward, However, I still use the old sourcebooks for all the other locations, which means the people in the Volo's guides (and everywhere else) are all still around (they are not old, my timeline just ran differently is all). In the new era - if you follow whats going on in Neverwinter - Waterdeep has 'imperial aspirations', which I ran with for MY Realms. Its not 'evil', more like neutral-greedy (think 1600's England just prior to their meteoric rise).

I'm hopeful that 5E will treat the Realms better than 4E did, although I did like the new continent. i just would have preferred that WotC hadn't overwritten Maztica.

It's easy enough to rebuild the Realms into whatever a person needs, which is its strength. (It's weakness is that there can be too much lore.) Bringing Waterdeep to Kulan without bringing along everything else in the Realms will allow me to build Deepwater in a way that the Lands of Harqual can absorb. Sure, I might bring in other aspects of the Realms (specifically adventures), but Harqual and Kulan are not the FR with a different name. Thus, I can create a version of Waterdeep set roughly around 1368 DR, but I can shoehorn in anything I want from later time periods without worrying about canon.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

The idea is that a large Kingdom directly to the south (New Emyrea, from the Egg of phoenix series - you can see Shell there on that map snippet) fell about a hundred years ago, which ties in well with MANY of the other things I have going on (you'd be surprised how many published adventures start out, "About a century ago..."). Something major happened then, and many old empires fell (Eberron, anyone?), and the world is still trying to re-establish itself. Waterdeep now sees its chance to grab all the surrounding lands for itself, some of which were once part of Empyrea (like the Dukedom of Daggerford). However, there are forces trying to rebuild Empyrea itself (see that adventure path), and Thay is also nearby and wanting to grab land for itself (only the top tier of the plateau is devastated by undead, and Szass Tam sits there like a Sauron wanna-be, licking his wounds from that debacle a century earlier). So we have TONS of intrigue all going on in the background, with lots of political maneuvering by several powers all vying for control.

You know, I once had a copy of I12 Egg of the Phoenix many years ago. However, someone convinced me it wasn't worth hanging on to, so I sold it for almost nothing. Only years later did I learn that the book was valuable -- and a classic. If it ever crosses my path again (within what I can afford), I will buy it and never let it go.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

The map snippet I posted was just a tiny piece of a blown-up portion of my Campaign Map just showing the Neverwinter area. The larger map is more like the one I posted HERE (but I have made a lot of changes to that map since then - the 'Solarian Empire' no longer exists - it was redundant). The Neverwinter region map is just about done (and sorry to anyone waiting for maps from me, but the game I run for my boys comes FIRST ), and I should be able to post it very soon... just a couple more 'tweaks'.

I discovered your maps through The Piazza. I've seen that map before, which is very well done.

Edited by - Knightfall on 05 Oct 2014 21:00:15
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Knightfall
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Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  21:33:39  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ADLERSCHILD
Prominent Members
Patriarch: Nickolaus Adlerschild (NG male Valoran human, Ari2/Ftr5).
Spouse: Glynis Adlerschild (NG female half-elf, Clr6 [Sanh]).
Children: Aurora Adlerschild (CN female half-elf, Ari1/Rgr4; oldest child and heir), Ivor Adlerschild (LG male half-elf, Ari1/Pal2), Morwen Adlerschild (CG female half-elf, Ari2/Sor1).
Other(s): Fiete Adlerschild (LE male Valoran human, Ari4/Rog2; younger brother of Nickolaus), Lena Adlerschild (LN female Valoran human, Ari2; first cousin of Aurora and Ivor).

Other Details
Ennobled: 638 N.C.; 610 N.C. (Valora [lapsed & lost])
Holdings: $50, Laipham
Trade and Interests: Animal husbandry, mercenaries, and tack-making.
Resource Limit (gp): 26,000
Membership (nobles): 24
Predominant Alignments: Any good or neutral alignment – many of who are chaotic.
Favored Deities: Casiia [CG], Inanna [LN], Sanh [N]
DM's Note: This noble family is equivalent to the Eagleshield family. However, I have already changed it for my purposes. The heir is a half-elf, but the rest of the extended family is primarily human.

The Adlerschild family will be strongly aligned to the North Gods of my campaign world. All three of the favored deities listed are members of the Pantheon of the North. Inanna is the consort of the father god of the North Gods, Cronn. Sanh is one of their divine children and Casiia is a newly "born" divine grandchild of Cronn.

Elves have a strong connection to the followers of the North Gods, so it's easy to see how Lord Nickolaus fell in love with a half-elf. Lady Glynis is a devotee of Sanh, The Stormmaker.

Their eldest daughter, Lady Aurora, loves the wild places of the world and she is a ranger devoted to all the North Gods. Her younger brother, Lord Ivor, is much more proper and taciturn but his heart is pure. The youngest sibling, Lady Morwen, is wild at heart and often gets into trouble; she has an inborn talent for the arcane, which keeps most suitors away much to her father's chagrin. Her heritage doesn't help matters either. None of the Adlerschild children have had serious suitors, which means Lord Nickolaus might have to seek suitors for his eldest daughter from Izmer or even Eversink.

Lord Fiete Adlerschild is the younger brother of Lord Nickolaus and exile of Valora who now lives in the City of Eversink. He and his family were forced out their homeland after it was overrun by tabaxi from the Storm Jungle. Of his immediate family, only he and his daughter, Lady Lena, managed to escape the claws of the tabaxi slavers. He is bitter and resentful, which means he has his eyes on his older brother's life in Deepwater. He would like to take over the holdings in Laipham and then pour poison in the ears of his brother's allies.

----------------------------------
Notes about Ethnic Groups
• Valoran is a completely homebrewed ethnicity that originated in the, now, ruined lands of Valora southwest of Lake Nest in between the River of the Roc and River of Storms. While Valora is gone, its people are not, although most of them now exist as slaves in the Tabaxi Sovereignty. Those that escaped fled west to the Monarchy of Avion, north to the Aerie Holds, and east to the Eversinki Suzerainty. However, there are Valorans who live elsewhere on the Strom Peninsula and, of course, in Deepwater.

Edited by - Knightfall on 05 Oct 2014 21:39:02
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Seethyr
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Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  21:55:49  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very cool Knightfall. I wonder, do you have major ethnic regions planned for your setting (outside of your Zakhara mention)?

Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
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Markustay
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Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  22:47:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I will be using all of your noble houses somewhere - I LOVE detailed fluff.
quote:
Originally posted by Knightfall

I now have this image of tons of dwarven pirates sailing across your version of the Realms.
There are 'some' dwarf pirates/seamen, but no more so then in the canon realms... my Dwarves still hate open water, for the most part. There are hundreds of clan-holds all over my version of The North, and about half of them are still active, so the Dwarves are more prevalent then in canon (what can I say? I like dwarves!)

Elves, on the other hand, are bit rarer - they've never fared well. I also have races borrowed from elsewhere, and my gnomes and halflings are somewhat different then canon (I am considering taking the Golarion/PF fluff of their gnomes and using that for my halflings... not sure, yet). I just finished a session a few minutes ago, and fortunately, none of that has come-up.

Egg of Phoenix has its good points and its bad, as did just about all of the old-school modules. I used to sift all the 'silly' out of them when retro-fitting, but this time out I am leaving it all in (my younger sons are really enjoying it... and I am starting to remember what it was like when I didn't take my gaming so seriously). Anyhow, its actually an entire mini-setting, and FR is so damn big I was able to fit the whole thing right there south of Daggerford (and just above the troll Hills). I don't like 'empty spots' (I run a sandbox), so anywhere my players wander to, there's already something there waiting for them.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 05 Oct 2014 22:48:49
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Knightfall
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Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  23:41:27  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

Very cool Knightfall. I wonder, do you have major ethnic regions planned for your setting (outside of your Zakhara mention)?


I've already done some of the work for the Lands of Harqual over on E.N. World [LINK]

That thread started as an experiment of how I would convert Kulan to 5E, but it quickly set me into figuring out the various human ethnic groups for the Lands of Harqual. I haven't really considered the ethnicities beyond Harqual yet. Of course, anything that already exists for Zakhara will be transferred to Kulan, but like I said before, that is the other side of the world.

Here's a quick cut & paste regarding how I pulled the ethnic groups from the D&D 5E PHB into the Lands of Harqual.

Humans of Harqual
There are numerous human cultures for the Lands of Harqual, as well as several PC options that can be considered true subraces. It's interesting that WotC decided to put the Human Names and Ethnicities for the Forgotten Realms in the 5E PHB since I'd already decided (recently) to add many of those ethnic groups to Harqual with altered names. I did this because I've placed a homebrewed version of Waterdeep on the continent and I wanted most of the ethnic groups as options under 3E. Below you can see the various Realmsian ethnicities that I've included in the Lands of Harqual as options for players, as well as details on how they are different for Kulan.

Calishite -- These humans are known as Charans on Harqual. They are primarily found in the lands along the Chara Coast. Charans are considered a common human ethnic group. The names listed in the 5E PHB are appropriate for them, but I also have a homebrewed list for the region, as well.

Chondathan -- These humans are known as the Rethanthi on Harqual. They are primarily found in the lands surrounding the Reth Mountains on the Storm Peninsula. The Rethanthi are considered an uncommon ethnic group. The names listed in the 5E PHB are appropriate for them, and I do not have an alternate list.

Damaran -- These humans are known as Callans on Harqual. They are primarily found in the Kingdom of Navirosov on Calla Island, as well as the island chain that extends southeast from the island. Callans are considered a rare ethnic group. The names listed in the 5E PHB are appropriate for them, and I might have a dedicated list for the Kingdom of Navirosov.

Illuskan -- These humans are known as the Taal, or Taals (singular is usually Taali), on Harqual. They are primarily found in the lands surrounding the City of Deepwater, although they are not limited to that region. Taals can be found in many places in the northern lands of the continent, especially along the west coast. Taals are considered a common ethnic group. The names listed in the 5E PHB are appropriate for them, but I do have a dedicated list of names for the Taal of Deepwater.

Mulan -- These humans are known as Theninites on Harqual. They are found only in the lands of the Thenin Peninsula of the Far South. Theninites are considered a very rare ethnic group. The names listed in the 5E PHB are appropriate for them. Theninite PC are few and far between.

Rashemi -- These humans are known as the Varani on Harqual. They are found only in the lands of the Varan Peninsula of the Far South. The Varani are considered a very rare ethnic group. The names listed in the 5E PHB are appropriate for them. Varani PC are few and far between.

Shou -- N/A. This ethnic group doesn't exist on Harqual.

Tethyrian -- These humans are known as Nebralese on Harqual. They are primarily found in the lands of the Nebral Peninsula. The Nebralese are considered a very rare ethnic group. The names listed in the 5E PHB are appropriate for them. Nebralese PCs are rare but not unheard of.

Turami -- N/A. This ethnic group doesn't exit on Harqual.

Beyond the Realmsian ethnicities listed in the 5E PHB, the Lands of Harqual also allows for the following Realmsian ethnic groups: Arkaiun (known as Akratians, uncommon), Durpari (known as Freiians, uncommon), Halruaan (known as Paianese, rare), and Shaaryan (known as Lioneans, rare).

Edited by - Knightfall on 06 Oct 2014 00:11:41
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Markustay
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Posted - 06 Oct 2014 :  13:36:35  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Does your Deepwater have The Rat Hills nearby, like canon WD?

Whilst browsing the net just now looking for 'fantasy city maps', I noted a map of bludhaven from DC comics, and it struck me that the Rat Hills might make an interesting place for 'villainy' to hide close to Waterdeep/Deepwater, without actually being in the city. Of course, we have both an Undercity (I always forget what that is called - a place where gnomes and halflings chill in WD) and Skullport, so that is rather redundant.

Hmmmmm... moving Skullport INTO the Rat Hills... now THERE's an idea...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Knightfall
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Canada
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Posted - 06 Oct 2014 :  20:26:43  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Does your Deepwater have The Rat Hills nearby, like canon WD?

Whilst browsing the net just now looking for 'fantasy city maps', I noted a map of bludhaven from DC comics, and it struck me that the Rat Hills might make an interesting place for 'villainy' to hide close to Waterdeep/Deepwater, without actually being in the city. Of course, we have both an Undercity (I always forget what that is called - a place where gnomes and halflings chill in WD) and Skullport, so that is rather redundant.

Hmmmmm... moving Skullport INTO the Rat Hills... now THERE's an idea...

I call the Rat Hills The Ratruin in my game. It has become a small ruined village or fort. I haven't decided which way to go yet. It's six miles away from Deepwater, as listed under my post regarding distances.

It could have its own hidden dungeon that either stands alone or is connected to Bergunter Masse. I doubt I'd move Skullport there. But perhaps it would be a good place for some rivals vs. Skullport.
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Markustay
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Posted - 07 Oct 2014 :  14:01:04  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was "just throwing it out there" - I don't like it either.

I'll keep my Skullport inside Mount Waterdeep. If I use Undermountain (the dungeon) at all (which I never have and have no plans to), I would probably place it below Skullport; the opposite of how it is in canon.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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