| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Oct 2014 : 17:12:55
|
I'd consider the Lady's mazes to be like a divine ability, and not something that mere mortal magic could counter.
Given her mazes and her ability to block divine access, as well as the nature of Sigil itself, I have to wonder if it wasn't intended to be some sort of divine prison... Perhaps it's been repurposed, or perhaps some unknown corners of Sigil do in fact contain imprisoned entities of divine (or greater!) power.... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
 |
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2014 : 23:22:32
|
Ah, that seems obvious. Aoskars last divine act before assumption by the Lady was to slam Sigils door shut and toss the key out between the extraplanar bars.
Those poor Dabus. They did nothing wrong. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2014 : 02:58:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
When goin there... how much in danger, of a flailing from Her Serenity, is someone when just minding there own buisness? When I have been reading about Sigil, it seems that at any moment you could be at the receiving end of her wrath... which I gather noone even Larloch or the Srishee would survive. How random is her punishment?
It isn't like The Lady regularly drifts down the streets, it's a actually a relatively rare thing.
You genuinely have to do something of note to actually garner Her attention, and those generally fall into two categories:
1) Mazing - You disrupt Sigil or its portals, or gain too much power and influence over the city. You do this and it's a quick trip to the Mazes. It isn't the same thing as the 'Maze' spell, but rather you essentially get shunted off into a portion of the city of Sigil itself wrapped and folded in upon itself to form a personalized prison-plane personalized for its occupant. Inside it seems that you don't age, food and water is provided, and there is -always- a single portal out, but you have to find it, and likewise find what the key is. The mazes might be torment, they might be a second chance, they might be an ironic warning to those who arrogant few that cross The Lady.
If you get out and repeat your mistakes, it's usually on to the second category.
2) Flaying - If you worship The Lady, you die. She appears, her shadow falls across you, and wherever it touches, you erupt in a bloody mist, screaming until you die. It's a very messy, horrific and typically public object lesson that this is a line in the sand that for whatever unfathomable reason you Do.Not.Cross.
Why? Nobody knows. If the Lady isn't a god, it's possible that worship could make her into one and thereby actually damage her place in Sigil (if Sigil itself rather than The Lady bars the divine entry). It's possible that The Lady despises the concept of worship, or alternately that she feels that it's the ultimate sacrilege to worship her - something either not worthy of worship, or something so far beyond a mere deity that the would-be faithful mock her by their prayers.
There's also the question of whether or not Aoskar was inside of Sigil when he was flayed. Nobody knows. If he was outside of Sigil, that very much extends the reach of The Lady into not just within Sigil, but to anything that intrudes upon or interferes with the City of Doors (as Fell the dabus's worship of Aoskar did). Likewise we don't know for certain if Factol Skall of the Dustmen was inside of Sigil when he was mazed, or if he was inside of the Dustmen citadel within the Negative Energy Plane.
Best however for PCs not to tempt an answer to such questions. :) |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2014 : 03:56:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
2) Flaying - If you worship The Lady, you die. She appears, her shadow falls across you, and wherever it touches, you erupt in a bloody mist, screaming until you die. It's a very messy, horrific and typically public object lesson that this is a line in the sand that for whatever unfathomable reason you Do.Not.Cross.
What happens to the souls of those slain by flaying (flain?)? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2014 : 00:26:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
What happens to the souls of those slain by flaying (flain?)?
Nobody knows. I suspect that nobody wants to test any hypothesis given that a god ended up a floating island in the Astral plane in the aftermath of one instance. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
|
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2014 : 23:25:14
|
I guess its safe to say that people who die in Sigil will end up travelling towards their place of eternal afterlife just the same as if they died in any other place. Even if slain by the Lady - perhaps she can make special efforts and punitive examples out of particularly troublesome victims, condemn their soul to some infinite maze or absorb it into Sigil itself or simply smash it into oblivion, but that hardly seems her style.
Assuming no special circumstances apply (a Dustman contract condemning one to undead servitude, a bargain which hands your soul to the devils, etc). |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 00:45:25
|
| Which god did she slay? |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 02:02:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
Which god did she slay?
It was mentioned a few times in our replies but: Aoskar |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 04:41:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I guess its safe to say that people who die in Sigil will end up travelling towards their place of eternal afterlife just the same as if they died in any other place. Even if slain by the Lady - perhaps she can make special efforts and punitive examples out of particularly troublesome victims, condemn their soul to some infinite maze or absorb it into Sigil itself or simply smash it into oblivion, but that hardly seems her style.
Assuming no special circumstances apply (a Dustman contract condemning one to undead servitude, a bargain which hands your soul to the devils, etc).
I figured that under normal circumstances, souls would go to the right place. I was just curious about those that the Lady herself kills by flaying. If they were worshipping her, that means they weren't worshipping a deity (at least, not a standard one) -- so that rules out most of the normal destinations. And I'm thinking that if that's her punishment for worship, it would stand to reason that she could do unpleasant things to the would-be worshipper's soul, as well.
A possibility that occurs to me is that if the Cage really is some sort of prison, perhaps the souls of the flain help maintain it... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 09:52:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I guess its safe to say that people who die in Sigil will end up travelling towards their place of eternal afterlife just the same as if they died in any other place. Even if slain by the Lady - perhaps she can make special efforts and punitive examples out of particularly troublesome victims, condemn their soul to some infinite maze or absorb it into Sigil itself or simply smash it into oblivion, but that hardly seems her style.
Assuming no special circumstances apply (a Dustman contract condemning one to undead servitude, a bargain which hands your soul to the devils, etc).
I figured that under normal circumstances, souls would go to the right place. I was just curious about those that the Lady herself kills by flaying. If they were worshipping her, that means they weren't worshipping a deity (at least, not a standard one) -- so that rules out most of the normal destinations. And I'm thinking that if that's her punishment for worship, it would stand to reason that she could do unpleasant things to the would-be worshipper's soul, as well.
A possibility that occurs to me is that if the Cage really is some sort of prison, perhaps the souls of the flain help maintain it...
They become the dabus/daba? |
|
|
|
Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 16:34:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I guess its safe to say that people who die in Sigil will end up travelling towards their place of eternal afterlife just the same as if they died in any other place. Even if slain by the Lady - perhaps she can make special efforts and punitive examples out of particularly troublesome victims, condemn their soul to some infinite maze or absorb it into Sigil itself or simply smash it into oblivion, but that hardly seems her style.
Assuming no special circumstances apply (a Dustman contract condemning one to undead servitude, a bargain which hands your soul to the devils, etc).
I figured that under normal circumstances, souls would go to the right place. I was just curious about those that the Lady herself kills by flaying. If they were worshipping her, that means they weren't worshipping a deity (at least, not a standard one) -- so that rules out most of the normal destinations. And I'm thinking that if that's her punishment for worship, it would stand to reason that she could do unpleasant things to the would-be worshipper's soul, as well.
A possibility that occurs to me is that if the Cage really is some sort of prison, perhaps the souls of the flain help maintain it...
I would have to check my Planescape materials, but I'm almost sure that the canon material says that souls of those who die in Sigil do not leave the Cage. I think the rationale was that nothing moves in or out of Sigil without using a portal (that I'm sure about), and the souls of the dead cannot use portals. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 18:00:28
|
| That would be a different story, then... Though it still begs the question of where those souls are going, then. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 18:21:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That would be a different story, then... Though it still begs the question of where those souls are going, then.
Perhaps they remain as ghosts... |
|
|
|
Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 22:24:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Perhaps they remain as ghosts...
I believe that the souls of those killed in Sigil normally exit whenever portals opened to the plane that their souls would have normally migrated to had they died anywhere else.
As far as ghosts go, IIRC technically in 2e you couldn't normally have a ghost on the Outer Planes since it required a co-terminus Ethereal plane, which the Outer planes didn't have. This of course was the normal rule but was gleefully broken by the baernaloth Daru ib Shamiq in the gatetown of Torch (as described in the module 'Squaring the Circle') who created a ghost yugoloth. The module mentioned this shouldn't have been possible, and in-character the baernaloth had some measure of smirking pride about that if asked about it. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
|
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 00:31:22
|
| Also broken in PST by the ghost of Deionarra. She was first anchored to her physical remains in the Dustman Crematorium (in Sigil). She later appeared in the Fortress of Regrets (a unique demiplane, distinct Inner Plane location, or Negative Material Plane realm). No use of any portal nor any other explanation was offered, her ghostly presence was simply handwaved off to propel the storyline. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Traveling to Sigil question
