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aesthete
Acolyte
2 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Aug 2014 : 01:45:52
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Hello everyone - this is my first post. I have a Realms question, and it was suggested to me that you fine folks might be able to provide some answers :)
So... I'm looking at the new Tyranny of Dragons module...
(so if you're playing it and don't want it spoilered, don't read this post please :) )
... and there's a segment which involve caravan travel from Baldur's Gate to Waterdeep. I quite like the segment in terms of gameplay, but why would there be regular overland travel between those two points, as the module pretty much states outright?
There are few points of interest (for civilian folks and merchants) between the two points, but there's a good bit of danger. The distance is something like 500 miles and it takes about a month to cover the distance. Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep are both right there on the coast, and both have excellent harbours and are centres of maritime trade. In "the real world", as I understand it, under those conditions almost all trade and traffic would go by ship - it's faster, it's cheaper, it's safer, and you can move more goods and people. Yet caravans are a common feature. Why is that?
Do any of you have any insight or suggestions as to that might be? From mundane economic reasons to more fantastic ones?
Cheers!
~ Aesthete
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nblanton
Seeker
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2014 : 02:09:51
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| Interesting point, and one that does sort of make you have to suspend disbelief. |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2014 : 03:01:04
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You're right it makes more sense. The best reason I can give off the top of my head is supply and demand. There is lots of trade between Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep, and consequently lots of people who want to make the journey northward. Despite the extremely busy sea harbors in both cities, there are still a limited number of ships to take passengers. That means they can charge premium prices for those looking to travel north or south along the coast.
For the average commoner, that's out of reach. It's also expensive for middle-income merchants who aren't part of a larger trade consortium or members of smaller merchants guilds. Since the middle and lower class merchants will be interested in moving their goods overland along the roads, and people want safe travel north it makes sense for them to charge those who want to travel with their caravans. If nothing else, it's an extra arm or warm body in the way between those attacking the caravan and the merchants goods.
Those who are well armed, such as PC's typically are, are likely to find work and steady pay traveling back and forth with the caravans.
That's how I'd roll with it. It's believable enough that it doesn't really challenge the suspension of disbelief.
EDITED TO SAY: If you really need the players to travel north along the road and not by ship, you give them the above explanation, and they have tons of coin to book passage I'd let them find a ship. They will discover there is only one ship capable of carrying all of them, and it seems available. However, the Captain is a stubborn and greedy SOB. He's going to try and haggle the PC's hard for top price.
Anyway, in the midst of him trying to basically shake down the PC's of their coin and valuables - hopefully leading to a heated exchange - an important NPC will show up. He'll basically ignore the PC's, and address the Captain directly. They will know each other and have had previous business arrangements. The NPC wants to book passage northward, and the Captain isn't in a position to refuse him due to business ties.
Let the exchange play out normally - pushing things toward a heated confrontation if possible, and basically it's going to be a situation of whether or not the PC's meet the Captain's over the top demands or if they decide to travel by land. If the PC's make the deal with the Captain, and pretty much arrive in Waterdeep with nothing more than the clothes on their back (if that) then the Captain will have lost his business contact. They will have also earned the ire of the Important NPC they ended up out negotiating.
Most likely, the PC's will pull out and decide to travel by land. It's a decision between getting to Waterdeep very quickly, but earning an enemy and losing valuables and coin vs taking the long route and possibly earning some minor coin along the way. It comes down to how desperate they are to get to Waterdeep in a hurry, and how much they're willing to sacrifice to do it. |
Edited by - Aldrick on 24 Aug 2014 03:21:24 |
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Lord Kjeran
Acolyte
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2014 : 03:16:14
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Good points. Initial thoughts on my part.
1. Maybe the goods on the caravan are low-price? Common cloth, wool, maybe some "produce" that doesn't spoil short- or long-term (tobacco?).
2. Shortage of shipping because of pirates.
3. Maybe the caravan is servicing small communities on the route (Phlandelvin, Daggerford, and the like) in line with #1. That is, trading...picking up raw wool and selling trade goods. |
"It was an age of dark beliefs and of practises that were no less dark; and witchcraft and sorcery were rampant throughout the land, among all classes."
Clark Ashton Smith, "The Necromantic Tale" |
Edited by - Lord Kjeran on 24 Aug 2014 03:21:08 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2014 : 03:51:43
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Ah, here's one I can answer off the top of my head, from playing in Ed's home Realms campaign for over 30 years (yikes!): shipping rates by sea are reasonable for large bulk cargoes (such as grain), but pricey for small amounts (individual coffers and strongchests), which often go by land. There are also cargoes that usually go by land, because they are very heavy and because they readily get damaged by sea air (salty damp): metal weapons and tools and some wines and oils. Also live beasts and the large number of humans who fear drowning and hate seasickness more than they hate being bounced overland. Hence the regular caravan runs.
love,
THO |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2014 : 05:24:58
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Surely in the 500 miles between Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate there's plenty of stopovers and settled places.
Thus there's a need for the latest news (and not just from the cities; whatever is happening in the area where they stop for the night is of interest to overland traders, both for their safety and interest, and as information that can be traded down the road for the latest news at the next stop), likely some demand for the latest simple items to be had out of both cities, as well as offerings from these stopovers that can't be had out of either city, so they're scooped up by traveling merchants and then sold further down the road or in one of the two big cities.
I wonder too if the dangers of the sea might be being ignored by the OP. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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aesthete
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 19:12:46
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Thanks for the replies everyone :)
It's definitely possible to come up with reasons why any given individual would pick a caravan over going by sea - whether it be jerky captains, sea sickness, or whatever.
I was more wondering about the overall economic reasons because (at least as I understand it), sea travel has basically always been superior where possible in "the real world" from the invention of ships to the present day.
You've all given me some good ideas to consider, and it's definitely instructive to see what Ed Greenwood thought about it in his own campaign too.
Cheers! |
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devium
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2015 : 15:18:46
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| Another good reason for the massive land travel is because merchants are cheap, and the land doesn't ask question. In all likely hood, alot of the merchants going by land are the questionable sort and have likely ripped someone off (most likely a ships captain if they ever went by sea before) so they would be better off avoiding ships and others that would ask unnecessary questions. Another reason, as The Hooded One stated, it's cheaper to go by land. After hiring a few escorts, at maybe 5gp each max, food and time, it's still cheaper to go by land. As far as safety (looking at the module in reference) alot of merchants go at the same time, so between all the merchants you maybe have 60 mercenaries to protect them? |
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Rider Luume
Acolyte
Australia
1 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2016 : 07:20:56
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Same reason adventurers don't like boat adventures.
Kraken, dragon turtles, alboleths, storm Giants, storms, angry sea gods, reefs, giant any sea creature. I could think of more but land travel always feels safer to me. |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2016 : 13:20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by devium
Another good reason for the massive land travel is because merchants are cheap, and the land doesn't ask question. In all likely hood, alot of the merchants going by land are the questionable sort and have likely ripped someone off (most likely a ships captain if they ever went by sea before) so they would be better off avoiding ships and others that would ask unnecessary questions. Another reason, as The Hooded One stated, it's cheaper to go by land. After hiring a few escorts, at maybe 5gp each max, food and time, it's still cheaper to go by land. As far as safety (looking at the module in reference) alot of merchants go at the same time, so between all the merchants you maybe have 60 mercenaries to protect them?
Merchant caravan guard. That was the background of one of the PCs in my old D&D campaigns. |
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Baldur's Gate to Waterdeep - why go by land?
