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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7148 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  02:53:21  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Hey Seethyr,

What did you do with Trythosford during the spellplague?




You're going to think I'm mean but I had it sacked (1385 in the Grand History of the True World. I understand the need to have some locations that are cosmopolitan and friendly to the Faerunians, but I feel like there were some senseless additions that were turning a big part of Maztica into just another Realms (not that there's anything wrong with that!)

So I had the locals sack New Waterdeep, Qoral, Fort Tussin and Trythosford but I kept Helmsport-Ulatos and Tukan.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas


<snip>.. the concept of possibilities of gods temporarily taking on mortal avatars during the spellplague and where they might go. So, one of the concepts I have going is with the Metahel of the City of Gold region, and I've effectively made them followers of an alternate version of the norse pantheon with similar stories, very similar names, but making it still dubious. In that I'm creating them having Anachtar, Keeper of Blood Oaths, Lord of Conflict Resolution, Chainer of the Spirit-Wolf who is an analogue to Tyr, but with a twist. Anyway, I was thinking it might be interesting to have him appearing to protect this community from Abeiran interlopers, but I wasn't sure if you'd destroyed this community or not.



One of my favorite parts of your lore that I've read is your work on the Metahel. I thought they were such an untouched but interesting group. My work on Anchorome has stalled.

I could imagine Trythosford being "sacked" could have been a temporary status though - it certainly could have been rebuilt. I'm just wondering if you are concerned with the distance between Trythosford and where the Metahel are located. They're a half a continent away from each other.




Oh, and on the Metahel / Trythosford thing. I'm picturing it more like the story of Tyr dying is fake (same with Heimd.... I mean Helm), or maybe not, but this deity metaphysically shows up there PRETENDING to be Tyr (or he is), gets some paladin to willingly share his body, and then protects them. So, these people from Trythosford maybe don't even KNOW about the Metahel pantheon... but at some point while they were in Abeir they have a story of Tyr's avatar showing up and protecting them from an Abeiran dragon.

It still works... let's make a little story real quick.... maybe they left the city fleeing dragons and dragonborn soldiers... moved into the countryside... a couple dragons show up, but a paladin accepts "Tyr" into his body... Paladin-Tyr-avatar pops 'em... they flee to Helmsport... more dragons show up... Paladin-Tyr-avatar pops SOME, rest flee... Paladin-Tyr-avatar says he's been weakened and he has to let them continue on their own..... they arrive outside Helmsport, dragons in hot pursuit, rain drizzling and making them bedraggled... out comes Cleric-Helm-avatar from Helmsport who just accepted the spirit of Heimd... I mean Helm.... who focuses the sun's rays through a crystal, and a prismatic blast rips the head off the dragon lord. Months pass... a virus hits the local horse population... starving Hakuna begin raiding the herds as well... seeing this as a "sign" of the angers of the gods, the locals refuse to work as slaves any longer... many of the Amnians and folk of Trythosford jump in a couple ships and flee to the island that Trythosford is on, finding only a small occupying force in their former village. Worship of Helm and Tyr grow for the next five decades, with paladins of both religions protecting the communities, until the sahuagin of Itzcali attack. The sahuagin are pushed back into the sea, but the paladins suffer disastrous losses, as does the community of Trythosford itself. Many of the remaining Faerunians take to the sea once again, arriving in the Balduran Bay tharch, where they start new lives.


Oh, and just since you said you liked the Metahel Pantheon... pick apart or add to the mythology... or just read and enjoy...

Metahel Pantheon
The Metahel Pantheon, to the people of earth, would appear to be somewhat of a mirror of the Norse Pantheon, but missing Odin and several other deities. The details are slightly changed, as are the names. Since these deities are not detailed in some other product for reference, I present below some sample ideas for the deities in this pantheon. This pantheon has especially garnered the attention of the Mulan people who have worked with the Metahel, as many Mulans believe these are in fact Faerunian deities under another name. The truth behind this mystery is left to the DM's control.

Sifya, the War Mother, goddess of birth and breeding of livestock and horses, goddess of excellence and skill in battle, Mother of Moedae and Yuellar - this goddess' mood varies and is represented as a change in her hair color (when she is ready for battle, her hair is usually red, when she is in her motherly aspect, it is golden. She is also depicted with black or brown hair when being portrayed as blessing the birth of young livestock). She is the mother of Yuellar by a god whose name is lost to history and she birthed Moedae, one of the two Thunder Twins.

Thoros, Lord of Thunder and Lightning, Lord of the Bloodrage, Bringer of Rain, Stepfather of Yuellar, Father of the Thunder Twins - Much like his wife, Thoros' moods are reflected in his beard color, changing from either blonde when he is acting nobly, to red when he is raging. He is seen to have lost his right eye, and he wears an eyepatch of blue dragon hide. He also lost his left arm at one point, but he had it replaced with a magical arm of iron, which gives him great control of electricity and magnetism. He fights with his famed everbleeding battle axe, Jarlsbluud, in his right hand, and in his left he uses his spear, Fangir, which is imbued with the power of thunder and lightning. It is rumored that long ago, in return for his aid on a quest, Fraeyollo blessed Thoros with such virility that when he impregnated his wife Sifya, it also awakened the seed in his former lover Yaernsacsa. Both Sifya and Yaernsacsa gave birth at the same time, and their children (Moedae and Magnaear) were twins. He is noted as having a chariot pulled by a pair of flying rams whose hooves spark and thunder as they pull him across the sky.

Eldunna, Keeper of the Golden Mangos, Guardian of the Goldenheart Spring, Goddess of Young Love - This golden haired goddess is a goddess of rivers, springs, and harvesting fruits and grains. She is also known as a matchmaker who often helps young lovers find one another.

Frethander, Lord of Spring Plantings, Lord of Beauty and Flowers, Keeper of the Sun Blade and Charioteer of the Sun - This golden haired god is noted as being exceptionally handsome. He blesses men with virility, blesses the seeding of fields, and is often portrayed with marigolds in his hair. He has a job to pulling the sun across the sky each day with his flaming chariot pulled by a golden bristled boar, and as a result, many use the boar as a symbol of this god.

Hemdahl, Guardian of the Rainbow Staircase, He of the All-Seeing Eye, Defender of the Metahel - This god is the progeny of Yaernsacsa by an unnamed father. He is believed to be a half-brother of Thoros and both half-brother and Uncle to Moedae. Many have equated this god to the god Helm, who guarded the celestial stairway during the time of troubles, and some Payit in the city of Helmsport know him as Hunab-Kuum.

Anachtar, Keeper of Blood Oaths, Lord of Conflict Resolution, Chainer of the Spirit-Wolf - This god is believed to be a half-brother of Thoros. He seeks to intermediate disputes between the gods, and his followers often serve similar roles within the Metahel clans. However, when resolution cannot be achieved, the blood oath is taken in Anachtar's name, resulting in feuds that have been known to decimate clans. This noble god is noted as having a single hand because of his own selflessness, though its also noted that he's had a mechanical hand constructed by dwarves to take its place. The story is that he lost it in chaining Kezris, the Spirit-Wolf. This has caused a log of friction between himself and Valigor, for he blames the trickster god for bringing the great wolf into the world.

Valigor the Runtborn Giant, Lord of Chaos, Trickster of the Gods, Father of Monsters and Magical Beasts - This trickster god was found by the gods in a giant's cradle after a war between the gods and giants. He was obviously a runt amongst giants, and the Metahel gods decided to adopt him and raise him as one of their own. His antics fill many stories amongst the Metahel, usually involving Thoros having to fight some giant in the end. He is also a shapechanging god, and he himself is rumored to have given birth to the race of noble flying horses known as Asperii when he shapechanged into a giant mare to help the gods trick a lying giant into building their home realm for free. However, he is also rumored to have birthed numerous monsters upon a shape changing giantess known as Haagenis, including Chupocol the Great Spider, Kezris the Spirit Wolf that will swallow the moon, and Jormungis the Great Sea Serpent.

Yaernsacsa, Wave Maiden of the Sea, Mother of Hemdahl, Lover of Thoros, Mother of Magnaear - This aloof deity of the sea is known for her capricious nature. The Metahel usually praise her for the sea's bounty or before a sea voyage of some danger. Before Thoros met and married Sifya, he had loved a giantess by the name of Yaernsacsa. However, she would never produce a son for him, no matter how many times he seeded her. Eventually, Thoros met and married Sifya, and as a reward for his aid, Fraeyollo did awaken his seed in Sifya. To everyone's great surprise, this act did also awaken his seed within Yaernsacsa as well, and later she gave birth to one of the Thunder Twins.

Yuellar, Huntsman of the Gods, Son of Sifya and Stepson of Thoros - This god is known for his superb hunting and tracking skills, as well as his athletic prowess in sports. He rides upon a great, giant antlered buck and is served by a number of hunting wolves.

Magnaear, Lord of Bravery and Mounted Combat, one of the Thunder Twins - This god rides a silver-furred Asperii that can also change into a Hippocampus when it goes beneath the waves. Magnaear is seen as a restless god and he rides across the heavens seeking out new challenges to test himself against.

Moedae, Lord of Strength, one of the Thunder Twins - This god is noted as having a bear companion, and unlike his aggressive brother, he is known for simply wanting to relax and eat, but he is always called out by foolish giants and other creatures who seek to best him in combat.

Surtr - This is without a doubt, the same deity as the god of fire giants, but during the time in Abeir, he was silent. He is an enemy of the Metahel gods.

Thrym - This is without a doubt, the same deity as the god of frost giants, but during the time in Abeir, he was silent. He is an enemy of the Metahel gods.




Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7148 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  03:13:47  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Refresh my memory - what are the Metahel again? As I've said, I've never bothered much with Maztica before (and I'm still not... not really... my current interest is nearby Katashaka), and most of what I have is in my head from stuff read over 20 years ago (and only read-through one time, unlike most other FR material).

Its easy enough to say that 'other things' moved into the sacked settlements after they went to Abeir (and that might be fun!), and when the continent came back to us, Faerûnians rushed to resettle their old bases of operation 9which you can spin as successful or not, or some sort of hybrid of new and old - however you want). I am pretty sure New Waterdeep fell well outside the area that 'left'. I have to double-check that with the maps.



They were a seaborne race of humans described in Cities of Gold (imho the best Maztica product ever made) that only got a short description but were ancillary to the main group of humans - the Azuposi. If my impressions were correct they were more like displaced Vikings than folk from the Pueblo



Yes, they were stuck in a land with no trees with which to build boats.... one of the things that my red wizard trade enclaves solved was bringing materials (often prepared materials versus raw) to areas of Maztica that could really use them. So, the red wizards won over the Metahel by bringing them the ability to make ships and go adventuring the world.

BTW, I loved City of Gold as well. I didn't want to ruin the ecosystem, but I did put the red wizards there delving as much into technology as magic (possibly more so... craftsmen there study pluma/hishna and the avariel arts of glassteel, since they have a LOT of sand). They don't become masters of glassteel, but they can produce it, and one of the things they DO produce with it... is boats... boats you can see through the bottom of... with plumasails.... great for hunting sea enemies, or just going fishing. Of course, they're expensive as hell, so only the ruling aristocracy and the military have them.

So, basically, a lot of the Metahel, Azuposi, Nahopaca, short ones, desert dwarves, and other natives of the region have come to the red wizards and learned to be artisans. Some, like the dwarves, have managed to secretly bring this knowledge back to their own people. Also, in learning this... they messed up a LOT and made a LOT of slag glass, which they used along with layers of mud, to make a lake in the desert. This lake is surrounded by ramshackle settlements, but to the people there.... its like heaven. They've also seeded the lake with fish, and little canals allow run off to fill small ponds for herd animals like goats and camels (which during dry times are slaughtered and eaten). These people are happy to work if it means they can get building materials or food from elsewhere.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7148 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  03:17:40  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I edited my last reply - you probably missed my adds. (I really need to stop doing that)

I just pasted the map in my trackless sea map for a more 'pulled back' view, and Balduran DEFINITELTY didn't go to Abeir - it way to far to the north (and I even even moved it closer than what the FRIA maps imply!) New Waterdeep probably didn't go to Abeir, but it may have been 'sunk' because as I said above, its not that far away from the top edge of the land-swap, and we know Laerakond was surrounded by water.

Trythosoford not only would not have gone to Abeir, it looks like it could have easily survived, even if the waters extended past Abeir by a few hundred miles.

I don't think most people realize just how small Returned Abeir was - it barely covered Maztica-proper. It didn't go up into Anchoromé, and it didn't go down into Lopnago, but it may have caused some disruption there due to the in-rushing waters.

Would you guys like to see that?
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

They were a seaborne race of humans described in Cities of Gold (imho the best Maztica product ever made) that only got a short description but were ancillary to the main group of humans - the Azuposi. If my impressions were correct they were more like displaced Vikings than folk from the Pueblo

Thanks for the quick response - they still aren't ringing any bells, but I have to admit, I probably never read-through City of Gold cover-to-cover (I pay way less attention to adventures than I do sourcebooks).

Still, I can use them...

I may want to do more with a Rivlands-in-The Realms than I thought. I did a map awhile back, and it was a great fit. Are you listening, ACE? (Dalor)



Yeah, I'm sending it all to Abeir, just because had it been near returned Abeir, they'd have been involved with those areas. In my mind, the quickest answer to that is "damn those Halruaans... don't they know how much of Abeir they threw into the shadowfell... those poor Abeiran people that we never even knew must have suffered horribly before being eaten".

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  05:01:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
See, there we differ a bit too much. I want to keep the land-loss as tight as I can, while still maintaining the integrity of the canon Returned Abeir map (so some water around it, but still all of Anchoromé and Lopango should have been fine).

I mean, I can see being mad at Lopango (actually, no I can't - there wasn't even canon lore there LOL), but that stuff from City of Gold is WAY too far away. That map is just about the same size as the Maztica map itself, and as I said, even a little of Maztica-proper could have been saved (the northern edge) if we really wanted to. There's just no canonical reason to send lower Anchoromé to Abeir along with Maztica. Lopango IS part of Maztica, so I'll give you that.

Viking Red Wizards?
Is there ANYWHERE you won't put an enclave?

The funny thing is, I tried something along the lines you are doing, but I was doing it with the Scarlet Brotherhood instead (who everyone knows secretly runs the Red Wizards).

In fact, I had some stuff I posted about it on the WotC boards, so it must be like 12-13 years back now. Damn, how time flies. I moved Thay into the Shaar, next to Stygia (You know something... that was my FIRST map!), and I pictured four main branches of an Illuminati-like 'power-behind-the-thrones' group:

Red Wizards (Mages)
Scarlet brotherhood (Fighters)
Ruby Rogues (spies & assassins)
Order of the Rose (priests)

And they'd all be under the umbrella of the Secret Society known as the Crimson Cabal.

Funny how tarnished your own homebrew can look over a decade later. I still like the idea of connecting the Brotherhood to the Red Wizards - I could just say that the Mulan who settled Thay were a very particular group of Imaskari slaves, who stayed true to their bloodlines (mostly) over thousands of years. Those bloodlines? Suel... from Greyhawk.

The scarlet Brotherhood was a very good - and unique - group of villains that's well worth stealing. In fact, the easiest route is to take the SB (including the 3e sourcebook all about them) and apply all of that to the Long Death (both groups are evil monks). That might work.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 31 Jan 2018 18:51:09
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Jürgen Hubert
Seeker

Germany
31 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  06:07:35  Show Profile  Visit Jürgen Hubert's Homepage Send Jürgen Hubert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Personally, I had Trythosford, New Waterdeep, and (eventually) Fort Balduran be absorbed into the expanding Kultakan Empire - they still remain somewhat distinct cultural and ethnic enclaves, but their inhabitants consider themselves Kultakans more than Faerunians (think Hong Kong and Macao after they have rejoined the People's Republic of China).

And Kultaka found them useful enough - they have always been the underdogs in conflicts (stretching back all the way to their periodic wars with Nexal), and thus they saw the need for constant innovation strongly, and those Faerunian colonies that were cut off from their mother countries presented very useful opportunities for learning new tricks. The present attitude of the Kultakan Empire could be compared to the Japanese Meji Empire - learn what it can from others so that it can stand on its own and never be threatened again.

A German Geek - my gaming blog
Returned Maztica Discussion Thread - my interpretation of the True World
Doomed Slayers - my social analysis of adventurers. Also, a fantasy setting!
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7148 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  13:37:08  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

See, there we differ a bit too much. I want to keep the land-loss as tight as I can, while still maintaining the integrity of the canon Returned Abeir map (so some water around it, but still all of Anchoromé and Lopango should have been fine).

I mean, I can see being mad at Lopango (actually, no I can't - there wasn't even canon lore there LOL), but that stuff from City of Gold is WAY too far away. That map is just about the same size as the Maztica map itself, and as I said, even a little of Maztica-proper could have been saved (the northern edge) if we really wanted to. There's just no canonical reason to send lower Anchoromé to Abeir along with Maztica. Lopango IS part of Maztica, so I'll give you that.

Viking Red Wizards?
Is there ANYWHERE you won't put an enclave?

The funny thing is, I tried something along the lines you are doing, but I was doing it with the Scarlet Brotherhood instead (who everyone knows secretly runs the Red Wizards).

In fact, I had some stuff I posted about it on the WotC boards, so it must be like 12-13 years back now. Damn, how time flies. I moved Thay into the Shaar, next to Stygia (You know something... that was my FIRST map!), and I pictured four main branches of an Illuninati-like 'power-behind-the-thrones' group:

Red Wizards (Mages)
Scarlet brotherhood (Fighters)
Ruby Rogues (spies & assassins)
Order of the Rose (priests)

And they'd all be under the umbrella of the Secret Society known as the Crimson Cabal.

Funny how tarnished your own homebrew can look over a decade later. I still like the idea of connecting the Brotherhood to the Red Wizards - I could just say that the Mulan who settled Thay were a very particular group of Imaskari slaves, who stayed true to their bloodlines (mostly) over thousands of years. Those bloodlines? Suel... from Greyhawk.

The scarlet Brotherhood was a very good - and unique - group of villains that's well worth stealing. In fact, the easiest route is to take the SB (including the 3e sourcebook all about them) and apply all of that to the Long Death (both groups are evil monks). That might work.




No, the Vikings (Metahel) went WITH the red wizards. Basically they became somewhat the equivalent of the Rashemi back in Thay who were the common laborers and soldiers. That being said, I'm specifically having them get upset over racial purity just like the red wizards, and they go settle their own islands (the red wizards seeking racial purity leave Lopango and form small coastal villages in Katashaka, employing tactics for defense they actually learn from the metahel). They separate themselves entirely from the red wizard governance. However, I wanted to show this as in how the red wizards found a group, improved their lives (while using them to improve their own), and still maintain an amicable relationship with them (even trading with them, hiring them as mercs, sea captains, etc..).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7148 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  13:42:43  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jürgen Hubert

Personally, I had Trythosford, New Waterdeep, and (eventually) Fort Balduran be absorbed into the expanding Kultakan Empire - they still remain somewhat distinct cultural and ethnic enclaves, but their inhabitants consider themselves Kultakans more than Faerunians (think Hong Kong and Macao after they have rejoined the People's Republic of China).

And Kultaka found them useful enough - they have always been the underdogs in conflicts (stretching back all the way to their periodic wars with Nexal), and thus they saw the need for constant innovation strongly, and those Faerunian colonies that were cut off from their mother countries presented very useful opportunities for learning new tricks. The present attitude of the Kultakan Empire could be compared to the Japanese Meji Empire - learn what it can from others so that it can stand on its own and never be threatened again.



The main reason I thought Trythosford might survive is remoteness. Its out on an island. Now, Balduran Bay/Fort Flame... that's far from Maztica. I don't see the people of Kultaka taking a trip up there, and of course, with what I'm doing of having a ton of the Chultan peninsula relocating there, they'll have enough manpower to defend it. After probably the first decade in Abeir, I can see the Poscadar elves just ceding that area to them as well, as long as they stay in that small pocket region.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  21:39:18  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, at the very least Balduran had to have stayed on Toril, unless you ported the entirety of Anchoromé to Abeir.

Its 'off the map' on the FRIA maps, and well north of the City of Gold stuff. I actually dropped it south just so it made it onto my Maztica map.

@Slevas: Don't you think the Faerûnians may have been even more interested in Returned Abeir when Maztica vanished? There seems to have been quite a lot of interaction, even with the messy Spellplague stuff going on. My thoughts on all of that was to leave as many of the FR colonies in-place (although not necessarily 'intact') just so the Faerûnians had bases of operation to trade with the Abeirans. So without actually knowing a 1/10 of what you guys do about Maztica-proper, I'm thinking...

Helmsport: 'Eaten' by Ulatos. In other words, after going to Abeir, the natives realized they now had an advantage over the Amnians and took Helmsport from them (I think maybe somewhat peaceably - there was some resistance, but with them swapping worlds they knew they were beaten before they started, and most of them would have simply surrendered, realizing they had to work together now to survive). Also assume Smokepowder weapons no longer worked (maybe Gunpowder works on Abeir - who knows?) Over the course of a century, more natives move in (and mix with the Amnians), and a lot of Abeirans also come to settle in the region. The two nearby settlements (Helsport and Ulatos) merge into one, sprawling (and funky) metropolis, with a mixture of Maztican, Amnian, and Abeiran architecture. It should also have a decent navy of its own now (think MesoAmerican Waterdep).

New Waterdeep: The placed got riggity-wrecked. When Maztica disappeared and Abeir showed up, much of the surrounding land was engulfed by a tidal wave. Very few of the original inhabitants managed to survive - via magic, being elsewhere at the time, or just clinging to something and miraculously staying alive. When they made it back to NW most of it was still Underwater, but they began to rebuild what they could that was still on dry land. Many natives joined them, because they, too, had lost their settlements, and thought the clever Faerûnians were their best option for survival. Thus, the population today looks very similar to Port Ulatos - a mix of Maz and FR favoring the Maz side. A group of tritons who also had their homes destroyed moved into the submerged ruins, and the two groups work together. The harbor was eventually rebuilt, but they had to extend the docks way out past the original city which was still underwater (so as to not disturb the new inhabitants), thus the docks have a half-sunken city between the area where ships tie-off and where the new settlement lies. its nowhere near as big as Port Ulatos - a large town at best. It has also been renamed Waterlogged.

Trythosford: They laughed, they cried, but most of all, they ate papaya cake. Sorry, I just wanted to type that. Trythosford should have been wiped-clean, considering the tidal wave... but it wasn't. The water washed over it as if they had some sort of invisible shield around the island. To the south are the Mountains of Judgement (named by the settlers), and the Tyrtanga River cuts through them, leaving a large cliffs all along the river's southern side. After the Spellplague struck, and the town miraculously survived, the Cerulean Wave washed over the settlement, and afterwards it was discovered the words "Earn This" in 50' letters was carved into the cliffs facing the town. Since then, the town has grown, and become a mecca for people to come from all over Maztica, as well as Anchoromé and even Faerûn, and the populace have become near-fanatical worshipers of Tyr... despite his complete absence for a century (there was a large church there, with plans to build a cathedral, but Sages argue that no-one actually knows for sure it was Tyr. These same Sages are NOT welcome in Tyrthosford). They have a mixed group of people (native and Faerûnian) that make up the Hands of Tyr, an order of paladins that protects the city. Oddly, this religion has diverged from orthodox Tyr worship (not that there was much of that during the Wailing Years) - their depictions of the god showing a shining silver hand in place of the one he lost. After the Reclamation (Sundering 2.0) the god Tyr did return, as prophesized... and his has been known to manifest with a shining silver hand. Many of the few churches of Tyr that had remained in Faerûn now look upon Tyrthosford as a 'Holy City' of sorts.

Balduran: being as far north as it was, the tidal action should not have been as fierce (there seemed to have been some divine intervention - the affects were localized), and yet, Balduran stood empty after the Spellplague struck. Not destroyed, just... EMPTY. As if the people simply vanished. The only odd thing that was found was the word 'Croathua' carved into several wooden walls and one tree. The settlement was largely forgotten about until after the Reclamation, when a group of strange people reappeared there. They claim to be descendants of the original inhabitants, and are somewhat confused themselves. They claim they came from a dark and misty place where Balduran also existed, but when they appeared in this Balduran, they knew it to be different - changes had been made and all their personal belongings were missing. They are an odd and melancholy lot, not very friendly to outsiders. There have also been reports of both lycanthropic and vampiric activity in the region. The only thing everyone - including the Baldurans - knows is that they were NOT on Abeir.

Qorol: is merely a 'suburb' of Port Ulatos now - it is an agricultural settlement that produces a lot of the foodstuffs that goes to the city. Nothing special here.

Drakmul: When the Cerulean wave washed over Drakmul and Maztica went to Abeir, the settlement was already in unrest. At the exact moment angry 'serfs' (really, just slaves) broke in to his offices to kill Lord Drakosa, the blue energy passed through the dying Drakul and turned him into something else... something unique. Perhaps he could best be described as a 'Merchant Lich' (not a true lich, but something closer to the 'Animus' in GH). He has some powers, like a weaker form of the Fear Aura that only affects persons up to level 3, and he can only 'turn it on' once per day. His touch is only painful - no damage (like holding an ice cube to a sensitive part of your body). He has a unique ability - he always gets advantage while making any roll involving business transactions, making him a dangerous haggler. His 'weakness' is that his does indeed have something akin to a phylactory, but no-one but him has figured this out. His treasure horde is the repository for his soul, which he keeps in a large vault. At one point he went to spend some of the gold to purchase another large track of land, and he felt very weak and sickened by it. He now realizes that each and every piece of his gold has a tiny little bit of his soul attached, and if it was ever completely dispersed, so to would he. He nows finds he must do a lot of his major dealings (minor ones are just promissory notes and don't count) - where gold needs to change hands - are handled by intermediaries. He has to find investors, and then he manages the property and they get half the profit. This is the best he can do - he cannot use any of his own gold to work with, and his pile just keeps growing. He is only just beginning to realize he has not been blessed - he has been cursed. No matter how much wealth he acquires, he can never spend any of it, making his existence pointless. He would love to hire people to find a solution to his dilemma, but that would require him to spend gold, which he can't.

I suppose I probably should have swapped Trysoford and Balduran, considering Tyrsoford was already an island (in case you missed it, that was a nod to Roanoke Island), but I wrote Trysofod up first, so I left it. Feel free to switch them, or whatever. I'm not going to use any of this - this was just a mental exercise for me (like the thread where I posted how I saw things in Thay falling out). As I said, Maztica is not 'my thing', and we already have enough chefs working there.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 01 Feb 2018 16:45:21
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sleyvas
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Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  14:51:38  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Regarding the idea that we were proposing of the sorcerous orcs that came from Katashaka being another instance of transformed humans. It might be interesting if these sorcerous orcs had a special sorcerous origin.... from Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is the "divine soul" sorcerous origin. Basically, these sorcerers can chose their known spells from the sorcerer spell list and the cleric spell list (including cantrips). If some of them were transformed by Tezca rather than Zaltec, I could definitely see them having both firebolt and sacred flame (one requires a to hit, the other doesn't but requires a save).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
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Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  17:35:58  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If they are 'transformed' anything, I would lean toward elves. It would fit the rest of what I have better than humans (humans are not native to my Katshaka). I wish I could go back in time and change the Maztica lore, I hate that 'humans became all the monsters' thing. It was just an uber-cheap way to put common (re: bland) creatures into Maztica. I look at that lore as pure laziness - they didn't feel like developing a lot of unique beasts for Maztica. Golden opportunity to make Maztica actually different, and instead it became slightly altered RW history with a giant doo-doo of stereotypical fantasy schlock ladled on top. *Gah* - no wonder I tossed that box in my closet. There was zero attempt at originality there.

If I were working on Maztica, I would tweak the lore and say that they were similar to Faerûnian creatures like the ones mentioned, but different. Call the 'orcs' Kara-lorghu or some such, and say they are 'beast men' (who happen to look a lot like orcs, but NOT 'the same'). The idea of creating an 'Orc Empire' in Katashaka is making my skin crawl. The last thing I want to create is 'Jungle Faerûn'..

Have any of you guys used the concept of the Akshayavat in Maztica? It seems there are a lot of similarities between Indian (Desi) culture and Mesoamerican religion. Some of that stuff would probably fit perfectly in that setting - the Vedic myths and creatures are pretty bizarro, like the Mesoamerican ones. All kinds of 'almost-human' races all over the place - that sort of thing. I went looking for some of central/south American origin, and I found THIS PAGE which has some neat creatures on it. I find the 'suck-ass' particularly amusing.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 01 Feb 2018 17:38:08
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Jürgen Hubert
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Germany
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Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  20:23:36  Show Profile  Visit Jürgen Hubert's Homepage Send Jürgen Hubert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

If they are 'transformed' anything, I would lean toward elves. It would fit the rest of what I have better than humans (humans are not native to my Katshaka). I wish I could go back in time and change the Maztica lore, I hate that 'humans became all the monsters' thing. It was just an uber-cheap way to put common (re: bland) creatures into Maztica. I look at that lore as pure laziness - they didn't feel like developing a lot of unique beasts for Maztica. Golden opportunity to make Maztica actually different, and instead it became slightly altered RW history with a giant doo-doo of stereotypical fantasy schlock ladled on top. *Gah* - no wonder I tossed that box in my closet. There was zero attempt at originality there.


I was not particularly fond of that part either, but I think I can work with it.

For starters, let's consider how Zaltec worshipers outside of Nexal view this event: Obviously, Zaltec cursed his Nexalan followers for being weak and unworthy. I mean, after they allowed uncultured barbarian foreigners to march right into Nexal and taking the Revered Counselor captive, Zaltec not only turned them into monsters, but foreign monsters. That's got to be the ultimate burn! While Nexal might have "survived", it has become a mockery of its former self - a warning to all those who would disappoint Zaltec.

Meanwhile, the Spawn of the Viperhand (the descendants of the Viperhand cultists) obviously see it as a blessing, since it gave them the power to drive out the foreigners from Nexal. And since then, they have installed a variant of New Spain's "Casta" system, which defines an individual's place in society based on the purity of blood that links them to the original cultists (with the highest positions going to the Children of Hoxitl - i.e. the tiefling descendants of the Viperhand priests).

A German Geek - my gaming blog
Returned Maztica Discussion Thread - my interpretation of the True World
Doomed Slayers - my social analysis of adventurers. Also, a fantasy setting!
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sleyvas
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Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  21:18:08  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

If they are 'transformed' anything, I would lean toward elves. It would fit the rest of what I have better than humans (humans are not native to my Katshaka). I wish I could go back in time and change the Maztica lore, I hate that 'humans became all the monsters' thing. It was just an uber-cheap way to put common (re: bland) creatures into Maztica. I look at that lore as pure laziness - they didn't feel like developing a lot of unique beasts for Maztica. Golden opportunity to make Maztica actually different, and instead it became slightly altered RW history with a giant doo-doo of stereotypical fantasy schlock ladled on top. *Gah* - no wonder I tossed that box in my closet. There was zero attempt at originality there.

If I were working on Maztica, I would tweak the lore and say that they were similar to Faerûnian creatures like the ones mentioned, but different. Call the 'orcs' Kara-lorghu or some such, and say they are 'beast men' (who happen to look a lot like orcs, but NOT 'the same'). The idea of creating an 'Orc Empire' in Katashaka is making my skin crawl. The last thing I want to create is 'Jungle Faerûn'..

Have any of you guys used the concept of the Akshayavat in Maztica? It seems there are a lot of similarities between Indian (Desi) culture and Mesoamerican religion. Some of that stuff would probably fit perfectly in that setting - the Vedic myths and creatures are pretty bizarro, like the Mesoamerican ones. All kinds of 'almost-human' races all over the place - that sort of thing. I went looking for some of central/south American origin, and I found THIS PAGE which has some neat creatures on it. I find the 'suck-ass' particularly amusing.



I can't see any god that I can think of punishing a human by turning them into an elf.... just sayin.... we were talking different gods turning the various humans into several races though (hags <green and sea>, ogre magi, sorcerous orcs, girallons or brown furred uthraki maybe, troglodytes, cat folk, etc..).

If it makes you feel better, its an orc empire that failed, and the remainder fled up to Lopango where they came into conflict with Natican humans and Tlincalli. The only reason I'm mentioning them in Katashaka is to set the history to match up to Seethyr's. They fled Katashaka when the sleeper destroyed their civilization.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
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Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  23:35:46  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LMAO!

Wow, was that some miscommunication! I meant that the elves were turned into orcs. It ties into some of the proto-cosmology I've been developing with Dalor in his threads (since technically, all goblinoids - in Folklore - ARE fey).

So if Orcs were the original dokalfar (before the drow), because they were 'not so nice', then it stands to reason that some form of corruption could not only taint the fey, but possibly mutate them to reflect their inward change. It would have to be more than just 'consorting with fiends', because elves have done that plenty of times without turning into orcs. Maybe it needs to be something a little more Chaotic/exotic, like 'aberrational'. I have to think on those more - I may spin those 'orcs' as something else that may have been similar enough to orcs for people to have thought they were orcs. Like maybe some sort of Hobgobline, so their 'furrier', which is more region-appropriate, with tails, belying their Fey heritage and also giving them a bit of uniqueness. Tieflings and Dragonborn have tails, so I'm thinking maybe prehensile, like an ape's.

I was going to make Tauric gorillas, but I think I like This Guy even better. Some horrible experiment by the drow.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 02 Feb 2018 18:01:18
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Seethyr
Senior Scribe

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Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  00:18:59  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry I’m so slow on responses here. The flu needs it’s own entry in the Monster Manual this year, I swear.

All "Maztica Alive" products can be found below, linked to the campaign guide.

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Markustay
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Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  03:41:49  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Bauchani: (Katashakan human name for the Hobgoblins)
Katshakan Hobgoblins differ from hobgobins elsewhere. Although of about the same level of culture and sophistication (intelligence), their looks are 'softer' - more fierce than 'bestial'. They have gray skin, ranging from a very dark brown-black through shades of very deep blue on into very light shades of grey that can almost be described as off-white. Normally, most of the members of any particular group will favor a specific shade of grey, but not necessarily so. Most folks don't really even see their skin except in their faces, hands, and feet. The rest of the hobgoblin's body is covered with a very fine coat of hair, nearly as fine as human hair. This ranges from alight brown through shades of tan and sometimes almost a golden color. Sometimes the color of the hair closely mimics the normal range of human skin-tones, so much so from a distance of more than a few dozen feet they could be mistaken for human (unless you looking them right in their face). One particular tribe that has settled right outside of Stormwrath has a beige tone that looks the same color as your typical Chondathan complexion. Thus, when they wear helmets, gauntlets, and footwear they could easily pass for human in a crowd (albeit odd humans).

They arrived on the scene after the fall of the second giant empires, and having since spread throughout Katashaka, building villages very similar to Faerûnians (more so than other natives) but being organized in a tribal hierarchy. The Hobgoblins seek power, but not on personal basis. They are long-range thinkers, which is very odd for goblinoids. Many of their settlements are not far from giant and other ruins, as they search for powerful artifacts and magic. They have no particular animosity toward humans, any more so than any of the other groups in Katashaka, but they will try attack adventurers if it looks lie they are leaving ruins with valuable items (they keep lookouts at all the major ruins just for this purpose - why waste your own people doing the dangerous work when you can get adventurers to do it for you?) They look at the Ondonti tribes along the coast with pity; the Ondonti feel much the same about them.

Thousands of years ago, before the coming of the Krael (catfolk), but after Liliith's (Lolth's) Blessing fell upon the Ælfar, a group of Bauchani came upon a the strangest ruin they had yet discovered, sitting on a beach half-submerged on the western coast. Upon investigation, they discovered a strange source of vast magical power, dedicated to an ancient, primal being named Kagon. Forming pacts with the dark Entity, these Hobgoblins dominated their kin and primitive huamns, and even some of the giant & drow tribes. Their influence stretched all the way to the northern coast of Katashaka, and then beyond. But the corruptive influence of the dark Energies had twisted them into more savage and less intelligent shapes, very much like their 'lesser' kindred, the Orcs. Soon, infighting began among factions, and the meteoric rise of the hobgoblin empire was followed by an equally spectacular fall. Sages believe it lasted no more than a century at its height, but it did leave a legacy behind.

In southern Maztica - the region called 'Lopango' - the Kagon Empire (as they were known) invaded and brutally subjugated all the local peoples. The Mazticans called them the Tetlachihuiani - "Malevolent Sorcerers". Faerûnian scholars studying the region - the folklore, history, and pictographs from the era - have determined that these were 'magic-wielding Orcs', and considering they had become a debased version of the original Bauchani, this was not far from the truth. They had technically branched off into their own sub-group, and 'orc' was as good a term as any.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 02 Feb 2018 20:23:23
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sleyvas
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Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  17:46:04  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

LMAO!

Wow, was that some miscommunication! I meant that the elves were turned into orcs. It ties into some of the proto-cosmology I've been developing with Dalor in his threads (since technically, all goblinoids - in Folklore - ARE fey).

So if Orcs were the original dokalfar (before the drow), because they were 'not so nice', then it stands to reason that some form of corruption could not only taint the fey, but possibly mutate them to reflect their inward change. It would have to be more than just 'consorting with fiends', because elves have done that plenty of times without turning into orcs. Maybe it needs to be something a little more Chaotic/exotic, like 'aberrational'. I have to think on those more - I may spin those 'orcs' as something else that may have been simial enough to orcs for people to have thought they were orcs. Like maybe some sort of Hobgobline, so their 'furrier', which is more region-appropriate, with tails, belying their Fey heritage and also giving them a bit of uniqueness. Tieflings and Dragonborn have tails, so I'm thinking maybe prehensile, like an ape's.

I was going to make Tauric gorillas, but I think I like This Guy even better. Some horrible experiment by the drow.



That gorilla is known as a Lhosk from the 3rd edition Monster Manual 3, Just in case you're looking for them.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
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Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  19:47:38  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yup... thats where I found him.

I thought I recalled a group of hobgoblins from somewhere in the 3e books - the MM's after #1 were kwon for that. Creating groups/tribes/organizations of monsters. I found everything BUT hobgoblins - weird. There were gnolls, orcs, even Raksashasa... but no Hobs. The one I was thinking of was actually bugbears, but I'll work that in. I'm going to spin them as an offshoot of Hobgoblins, but like the way flinds are to gnolls. In other words, Bugbears are a recessive gene and sometimes they are born among the Hobgoblins. Sometimes they form their own groups (where the gene becomes dominant eventually), but they are basically the same creature. Bugbears are just larger, stronger, but more feral and less intelligent than their Hobgoblin brethren. There was some interbreeding with something - maybe several somethings. Hagspawn and female hobgoblins might make sense... not sure. Something leftover from when they were in the Feywild.

EDIT:
I edited my above post to include a little about the incursion into Lopango. Seethyr - I downloaded your Lopango book just to make sure we remain consistent. Embarrassingly I am having a credit card problem ATM (I have the money, I just can't use my account... ex-wife troubles), so I will have to get you on the next one.

Seethyr: At first I thought the unnamed swamp down in the 'crotch' of Lopango would work for where the giants got drowned, but then I realized you were really concentrating more on the northern isthmus (I hardly ever get to use that word!) connecting Maztica-proper to Lopango, which means the swamp you named Tazakan Marsh might be a better placement. Your thoughts?

I am going to try and have a composite map soon. I realized there was some minor inconsistencies with my Katashaka map in regards to the little bit of Faerûn that showed (Chult, Nimbral) - the problem hadn't been obvious until I connected all of these new 'Mazshakas' maps to the large Faerûnian continent map I have. I want to get the Trackless Sea PERFECT (and I have a VERY special advisor/collaborator for that ). So once I tweak the Katashakae map I'll be able to move forward with the composite map (or at least, one showing ALL of Maztica, including Lopango.

I wish I could just work on one huge mega-map, but unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. File size issues and all (when maps are complete they can be stitched together, because all the layers are 'flattened' and it eats up a mere fraction of the memory that way). The down side of working in this piece-meal fashion has always been the individual maps not aligning correctly, so now I have a system where I use a consistent palette and update all connecting maps as I go along. Time consuming, but I feel it is really worth the effort.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 02 Feb 2018 22:06:55
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Markustay
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USA
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Posted - 03 Feb 2018 :  03:17:53  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Too bad I can't paint like THIS... this captures the exact feel I want for Katashaka (I've been looking for Cover-Art)

EDIT: More...
A Hobgoblina finds a ruin of the Giant Empires

Giant Lizarman

Bugbears discover a Moorian relic (lets just pretend its not a jeep, okay?)

Hyena-Men (Gnolls) & others protect a Lost Temple

That last one is actually WotC - I wonder if I can use it? its was from Draconimcon 2: Metallic Dragons (and I am just going be sarcastic and say that I'm glad the splat-of-the-week isn't a thing anymore, otherwise in 5e we would have had a separate Draconimicon for each type).

Reading Seethyr's stuff and the Nyambe book, along with African folklore, has me finally weaving a cohesive timeline together. I have a LOT more on my Hobgoblins now (I'm going to blend it into my old 'Drummers' lore), but once again, I want to wait until I have enough pieced together for my own Katashaka thread (a good timeline is priority one). The hobs - which I didn't even want (they're my 'sorta Orcs') - are being a major player now (they kind of had to be, to make all the Nyambe lore - which I am still pretty sure Seethyr dipped into - compatible with my new stuff).

The gnolls aren't 'native' (although the lines blur in this region quite a bit), they were brought in by the Kagon Empire ('Sorcerer Orcs'). After the empire fell in Katashaka, the gnolls went their own way. There is a larger, more feral variety with white fur in the southern reaches (where all the snow and ice is). They battle the Icemazons who live on the islands: That was all one 'ice sheet' only a few centuries ago, that the Icemazons (and YES, they are EXACTLY what they sound like) lived a nomadic lifestyle on, but the climate has warmed and now all those islands lie exposed and uncovered from the ice. The Warrior-Women have had to move 'inland' to survive, so they intruded on the Snow Gnoll territory.

Their men are preening idiots. Literally - roll just two D6 for both Int and Wis. There is one thing they're good for, though...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 03 Feb 2018 05:21:57
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sleyvas
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USA
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Posted - 07 Feb 2018 :  13:18:54  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, I absolutely LOVE Thor, and as a result, I felt like I wanted to give a better "homage" to my "Metahel Thoros". I wanted to put in some very "mixed" history which makes one truly wonder which Faerunian gods (if any) he may be a cross of, as well as show a linkage to the Vikings. Also, there is a noted absence of Odin (also known as Asagrimmr or "lord of the Aesir") in this pantheon, and so I wanted to show that linkage. I'm also giving a couple homage's to the Marvel comics. I know also that the story timeline doesn't match up to how things would have happened in Norse Lore (i.e. he gets the hammer before his father's death, etc...), but this is a different pantheon with different stories. Anyway, let me know what you think.

Thoros, Lord of Thunder and Lightning, Lord of the Bloodrage, Bringer of Rain, Stepfather of Yuellar, Father of the Thunder Twins -

Much like his wife, Thoros' moods are reflected in his beard and hair color, changing from either blonde when he is acting nobly, to red when he is raging. He is seen to have lost his right eye, and he wears an eyepatch of blue dragon hide made from the wingskin torn from a great blue dragon named Raethghul whom he once fought. He also lost his left arm in a fight with one of the great giant jarls of old, whose name seems to change with the telling. Thoros had this limb replaced with a magical arm of cold-forged black iron, which gives him great control of electricity and magnetism. He fights in his right hand with his famed everbleeding battle axe, Jarlsbluud, made of the bones of the first giant lord he ever killed and inlaid with carved deep green pieces of bloodstone flecked with red which are said to be organs of this giant lord. In his left Thoros uses his spear, Fangir, which is a piece of the world ash repeatedly lightning struck during a hurricane which threatened the tree when Thoros hung himself bleeding from it with spikes through his flesh for 16 days to uncover the power of runes. Its tip hardened by the resulting fires and engorged with the fury of the storm, Fangir is imbued with the powers of fire, wind, rain, thunder, and lightning. However, his favorite weapon is Mahljniir, a great double headed warhammer forged of the metal of a dead sun and smelted over the funeral pyre of his father, Asagrimmr, and whose second head is actually the fang of Kezris, left behind in his father's body when the great wolf killed him. The warhammer, Mahljniir, is capable of fighting on its own, and is said to possess the wit and wisdom of Asagrimmr. It also refuses to work for anyone which it does not deem worthy of its aid, though how it determines such worthiness seems to be conflicting depending on its mood. It is rumored that long ago, in return for his aid on a quest, Fraeyollo blessed Thoros with such virility that when he impregnated his wife Sifya, it also awakened the seed in his former lover Yaernsacsa. Both Sifya and Yaernsacsa gave birth at the same time, and their children (Moedae and Magnaear) were twins. He is noted as having a chariot pulled by a pair of winged rams whose hooves spark and thunder as they pull him across the sky. Thoros is known to have many enemies, primarily amongst giantkind, but he is particularly known as well for having enmity with the demon lords Kostchtchie, Baphomet, and Orcus, as well as as another savage one eye god known to the Metahel people as Grumash.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 07 Feb 2018 14:21:34
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7148 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2018 :  13:41:39  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Too bad I can't paint like THIS... this captures the exact feel I want for Katashaka (I've been looking for Cover-Art)

EDIT: More...
A Hobgoblina finds a ruin of the Giant Empires

Giant Lizarman

Bugbears discover a Moorian relic (lets just pretend its not a jeep, okay?)

Hyena-Men (Gnolls) & others protect a Lost Temple

That last one is actually WotC - I wonder if I can use it? its was from Draconimcon 2: Metallic Dragons (and I am just going be sarcastic and say that I'm glad the splat-of-the-week isn't a thing anymore, otherwise in 5e we would have had a separate Draconimicon for each type).

Reading Seethyr's stuff and the Nyambe book, along with African folklore, has me finally weaving a cohesive timeline together. I have a LOT more on my Hobgoblins now (I'm going to blend it into my old 'Drummers' lore), but once again, I want to wait until I have enough pieced together for my own Katashaka thread (a good timeline is priority one). The hobs - which I didn't even want (they're my 'sorta Orcs') - are being a major player now (they kind of had to be, to make all the Nyambe lore - which I am still pretty sure Seethyr dipped into - compatible with my new stuff).

The gnolls aren't 'native' (although the lines blur in this region quite a bit), they were brought in by the Kagon Empire ('Sorcerer Orcs'). After the empire fell in Katashaka, the gnolls went their own way. There is a larger, more feral variety with white fur in the southern reaches (where all the snow and ice is). They battle the Icemazons who live on the islands: That was all one 'ice sheet' only a few centuries ago, that the Icemazons (and YES, they are EXACTLY what they sound like) lived a nomadic lifestyle on, but the climate has warmed and now all those islands lie exposed and uncovered from the ice. The Warrior-Women have had to move 'inland' to survive, so they intruded on the Snow Gnoll territory.

Their men are preening idiots. Literally - roll just two D6 for both Int and Wis. There is one thing they're good for, though...



Like the artwork. I really need to start looking for stuff that I can actually use.

I'm definitely trying to stay away from the humanoid'ish races being in Katashaka (the orcs will have fled 500 years ago). The main ones I'll still have will be hags and ogre magi together and off on some islands, Tasloi. No goblins/hobgoblins/bugbears/ogres/trolls, etc.... there will be humanoid giants though. The humans that I introduce will be off on that side island to the east (except for the red wizards and their tharch). I'm probably nuts, but after discussing a lot of this, I feel like I have a better feel for my layout now, and I've started a redo of my map to contain all of Katashaka, and thereby layout "broad" territories of the various nyama-nummo.

On the "dog people", I'll have variations as well, and not just hyena men. It might be interesting to actually have a nyama-nummo who is served by a wolf people and whose name resembles Fenris/Kezef/Kezris. I want them to be from humans though who long ago changed themselves (not gods changing them, but humans changing themselves... I want a mix of these two things... some god changes, some human changes).

BTW, thanks for bringing up that the bottom half of Katashaka would be near the colder areas. I hadn't originally planned to go down that far, but it opens up possibilities. In particular... I may send some more Metahel down there as well, and actually have a pair of island cultures of Metahel "northmen"... one in the "summer lands" and one in the "winter lands". Thus, in the end, I'll probably have all the Metahel having left Lopango (disgusted with the way THOSE red wizards are acting, but respecting the red wizards of the western pridelands of Katashaka), but some still in Anchorome, and two cultures near Katashaka. I had also created the islands that I sent them to off northwestern Katashaka, and I may instead move them off the eastern coast by the big island you were calling tabaxiland and do something like we've talked about previously with the whole "Jakandor" idea. If I put these islands to the west of what you called "Tabaxiland", I could even have them involved with the Utter East lands like Konigheim and Ulgarth. Maybe their cultures and the corsairs of the great sea become at odds.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
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Posted - 07 Feb 2018 :  20:58:50  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the Warhammer setting, they have 'Norse' (Norsica) down in the jungle lands (Skeggi). Their 'Vikings' discovered the jungle continent centuries ago, and have adapted to it, and their culture is a strange blend of norse traditions and something akin to Aztec (they taken to feathers, etc, and dress appropriately for the hot climate... which is great for berserkers. All they wear it loincloths. So, in other words, 'Norse' don't necessarily have to live where its cold. In fact, they probably wouldn't mind a nice warm climate.

I'v also added quite a few more islands along the coast of my Anchoromé WIP. The 'correction map' (I do a lot of those) is covering an area I rarely ever get to see in full - The Trackless sea, so I am having some fun there. Those maps are almost always for my personal benefit - they are tools, and aren't pretty - they are paste-togethers of my maps over the fonstad and FRIA maps, so that I can get size and position correct. In this particular one I have also pasted the "Cordell's Voyage" map from the Maztica box, even though the scales are WAY off for stuff (if I were to move Evermeet where that map shows - in the center of the ocean between The Sword Coast and the Savage Coast {Anchoromé} - it would be over a thousand miles closer to The Moonshaes, and way too close to them). Instead, I just shoved it a bit east, which is not where the Fonstad map had it (SHE never allowed for Maztica & Anchoromé because they weren't around then), but IS where the FRIA map shows it (so a compromise). Otherwise, it wound-up MUCH too close to Anchromé's coast. Thus, expect newer versions of my world/continent map as well (that was technically never finished anyway - I never completed Kara-Tur). Since I can't work on a world map at the resolution I am working with - because my comp will crash - I have to do these 'in-between' tool maps so that I can do 'the other half' and get them to line-up correctly. Also, I am planning on changing that large island cluster in the NW. The layout will be similar, but that was a direct copy from Xendrik, and I am now only using Xendrik for 'inspirartion', which is a big shift from my original intent. Now back to Maztica and Katashaka...

Dog People - I'm going to go with gnolls in Katshaka, and say they were 'imported' by the neo-Orcs. I believe when we discussed it earlier, my idea was putting them down on that other large island, but if you look at the FRIA maps that island is actually connected to the southern ice cap (however, later maps do not show this, and I have to assume some 'global warming is taking place, which many other pieces of lore back-up). Regardless, even if its not connected, it would still be pretty damn cold (and now I am picturing a St. Bernard dog-people as 'rescue dogs' with those little barrels strapped under their chins, from old cartoons). I think they'd make a PERFECT fit for Anchoromé - thats where I put them. I even used the coast of the Red Steel campaign setting for MY Anchoromé (it really is an excellent fit).

Right now I think I have more than enough 'toys' to play with (and place), but we'll see. Katashaka is a humongous place (its approximately the size of the United States). Last night I was thinking about Loxo, and although they would be a great fit for an Africa-like continent, I think that may be why I'd steer clear of them. I am already using a kingdom of them in the Utter East, and they are all over The Shaar. I am trying to do Katashaka the way Eberron did Xendrik - have it NOT be 'fantasy-Africa', and at the same time, I need to import certain aspects of Nyambe, which is VERY MUCH 'fantasy Africa'. So as a compromis, I thought of a creature - its working-name is 'Lummox' - which would be to Loxo what Neanderthals are to humans. Like 10' tall and VERY primitive (just one step above beasts). So like a 'Dire Loxo' LOL.

BTW, there are Loxo in MtG, but they are one-trunked and called Loxodons (an obvious off-shoot). I was think of making my Lummox's three-trunk, but that would be a little... i don't know. Like trying to 'out-do' the Loxo - "trying too hard' - that sort of thing. Still a WIP, anyway. Anyhow, I found elephant-Thor in the MtG art.
Speaking of 'trying too hard', maybe I should just put Loxodon in Katashaka? Tie it to MtG a little more? Must think on this.

As for humans themselves - I have them (literally) around the top half of the continent. None of them are aboriginal, although nearly all would be considered 'native' at this point. And only along the coasts (although that could mean a couple of hundred miles inland). The interior (and 'Deep interior') are way too harsh for them to survive. I am picturing the entire continent to be like three (main) concentric rings of challenge - the outer ring (Coastal areas for several hundred miles inland) are tier 1 (level 1-10), the middle 'band' would be tier 2 (levels 11-20), and the center would be tier 3 (levels 21-30), so epic-level required for the center. haven't figured-out why the creatures and stuff in the middle don't just take-over everyone else, under than "they just don't care" (they are all animals and savages). I'm just waiting on inspiration for a McGuffin that doesn't sound too contrived (the "giant crystal of glowy-ness" keeps them all there!)


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Feb 2018 23:25:37
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Markustay
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Posted - 07 Feb 2018 :  23:24:40  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looking through the Nyambe stuff, I don't want to use their elves. I like them, but I already have jungle-drow, and I am trying to avoid making it too Faerûnian. However, I am starting to think of spinning my Bauchani (Fey-ish Hobgoblins) into the niche those Wakyambi elves filled. I'll probably just keep 'Wakyambi' as the human native name for the drow. So I am considering having my Bauchani live in trees (HUGE trees) and have prehensile tails. So the drow get the Nyambe name, the Hobgoblins get their stuff. I also don't want to use 'Unthlatu' the way Nyambe did - they had that as their lizardman race (actually, dragonmen, but quite a bit closer to Runequest's dragonewts than D&D's creatures). I like the spin/look, but the name was taken from real African folklore, and 'Unthlatu' was more of a christ-figure to them (so a solo). Thus, I plan to use the name mondjoli-mbembe instead, which is a closer African cryptid, methinks. I'll probably just shorten it to 'Mondjoli' - it would be what natives call them. What they call themselves would be unpronounceable to humans, and outsiders would just call them 'Lizardmen', lizardfolk', 'scaled ones', etc., etc. Basically, leaner, crested, primitive lizardmen... with beak-like mouths. Just use lizardman stats.

Ngoloko is the Nyambe name for half-orcs... and its just plain WRONG. The creature is shaggy, and not all that 'man-like'. Its other name is the Nandi-Bear, and here is a pic of one - obviously a primitive Bugbear to me. They are an offshoot of the hobs, and would live alongside them.

Orqindi - is an ancient form of 'orc' (the RW word), so I am going to use that instead of 'Orc' - that's what the tribespeople would call them. Their empire would have been the Kagon Empire, after their dark god, thus, they would refer to themselves as 'the Kagon' (both singular and plural). This takes the place of 'Kason', which I cannot use without permission. At some point, they expanded across the Gulf of Lopango, and enslaved just about everyone they found there.

Then something happened. I haven't gotten all my ducks in a row, but at some point all the various groups they had subjugated in katashaka rose up as one, and chased the Orqindi from their shores. Most headed for Lopango, or at least tried. Many simply managed to get as far as the Tanjari Islands. They had already eradicated the elven culture that had existed there years before (the remnants of those elves fled to the nearby Mokalonni Islands, mixed with the natives, and became the half-elven people that live there now - the Makoi). Whereas they flourished in Lopango, the island Orcs simply withered. Without their slaves to run their lands, they were at a loss as to how to proceed.

The original Elven city of Toraasthond was built on the ruins of an even more ancient (antideluvian) city. They called their island Toragaar, but todays its simply referred to as 'The Claw'. The interesting thing about this particular site was that in its large bay there existed a Sea Gate - a permanent two-way portal that lead to the isles of the utter South, below Zakhara, although the elves only made infrequent use of it, not trusting the ancient makers of the device. When the Kagon Orcs came they devastated the settlement with no mercy, driving the elves from their homeland. The Orcs then occupied the ruins, without ever bothering to repair anything. For the most part, the were content with leaving just a small detachment on the island and using the docks as a 'beachhead' for their invasion of Lopango, and they called it Tora'gash. So when the refugee Orcs fleeing Katashaka arrived, there wasn't much for them to do, or eat, and rather than pool-together and rebuild, they mostly turned on each other, trying to establish supremacy. Eventually a 'king' emerged, and they subsisted on fishing and boar-farming, dreaming of past glories. By the time the pirates arrived, there wasn't much fight left in them. Within ten years, the orcs had been 'absorbed' into a the new pirate community forming, and the town was renamed Torabago.

Torabago has been the 'pirate capitol' of the region for almost two hundred years, having the portal in its bay, and other portals nearby, pirates and other ne'er-do-wells from all over Toril (and beyond) have been calling it home. However, with the recent (last 30 years or so) interest in the ruins of Stormwrath in Katashaka, and increased trade from Laerakond to the north (now gone again), powerful groups - including the empires of Shou-Lung and Zakhara - have taken a more dominant role in the region, and Torabago has recently become more of a 'open port', with rules against any sort of fighting in or around the harbor. My suggestion here is to use the city of freeport from Green Ronin - its excellent, but you'll have to tweak the history somewhat.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Feb 2018 23:29:53
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sleyvas
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Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  01:19:41  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
rather than respond to the longer thing, gonna just to tidbit replies

Love the elephant-thor... thanks

On the "African Vikings", yeah, I'm thinking something similar. The ones that go to the cold lands to live, I'm thinking something along the lines of factions forming between the Metahel. Maybe a blood feud gone awry sends a clan off to search for somewhere else to live. I'm not thinking frozen tundra though... more like they end up in some Waterdeep'ish type area (really cold winters, but cool summers).... maybe just a couple small islands midway between the area you called "tabaxiland" and the bigger island/small continent to the southeast that you called "land of the flying monkeys" as a joke.

Oooo, and that island/small continent that you called "land of the flying monkeys"..... great place to put the bearfolk.... and yoink... those white furred wolf-headed gnolls rumored to be the children of Kezris and Eshebala (goddess of foxwomen and wolfweres)

Hmmm, and thinking on that topic.... Magnar the Bear of the Yuir.... Magni the son of Thor, god of strength. Realizing A) I had the two sons backwards (doh!) and B) lets me add onto my Metahel pantheon

Oh, and C) looking for a prettier name for a female werebear daughter of the werebear god Balador than Balanis (was thinking Ursinal.... but take out the S and its nasty).

Magnaear, Lord of Strength, one of the Thunder Twins –

Magnaer is noted as being extremely strong and hairy. This god is noted as having a female bear companion, Balanis, who periodically changes shape into that of a woman. It is rumored that her ability to change shape was a gift bestowed by Magnaer, and he did thereby accept the curse that he himself must periodically wander the world as a bear himself. Other stories say that Magnaear received Balanis as a bride-price for a service performed for another deity known as Father Bear or Balador, having come to Balador's aid when he was attacked by a great werewolf named Daragor. It is said in that story that Magnaear was bitten by Daragor and that Balador changed Magnaear's curse by mixing his blood with that of Balanis during their marriage ceremony. There are stories that these two did birth a race of intelligent bear folk, and nearly anytime the two of them are seen they are followed by three young, inquisitive bear cubs. Unlike his aggressive brother, Moedae, Magnaear is known for simply wanting to relax and eat, but he is always called out by foolish giants and other creatures who seek to best him in combat. He is the son of Yaernsacsa and Thoros.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 08 Feb 2018 02:12:00
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Markustay
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Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  17:44:02  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like it. "Thunder-Twin Powers Activate!"

Just a heads-up, the scale on my Katashaka map seems to be wack. Don't know how that happened, but now that I have something pasted to gether I was able to compare it to the Maztica scale and they are WAY off from each other. So I compared both to the one in the FRIA maps to see what was going on, and although the Maz. one is slightlty off from that, its close-enough (for now). The FRIA map scales are usually a little off themselves, so am going to now compare the 'Schley Scale' on Mike Schley's 5e Western heartlands map, which is the only scale we have to go by in 5e (I've checked it before, and its almost identical to the 1e/2e scale for the maps). That means double-checking my continental map, and then extrpolating the data from that outward and across the Trackless Sea, just to get it all PERFECT.

So, to reiterate, the Maztica scale appears to be fine, but don't go by the Katashaka one. From what I can see so far, the '1000' on that scale should really only be 800 miles. That means Katashaka is only a 4/5 (80%) the size I thought it was. Still HUGE though, so no worries. IIRC, on that particular map I just borrowed the scale from elsewhere, which I normally never do... because I get problems like this.

Nail-Biting Update:
So, I pasted in a bunch of scales into my continental map, and surprisingly, the Fonstad scale and the FRIA scale are an EXACT match (I've noticed discrepancies on the smaller FRIA maps, but I am now starting to think those were actually discrepancies within the canon maps themselves). And, of course, the scale on my continental map matches both... PERFECTLY (it bloody well should - I basically 'painted over' the Fonstad map I have without even changing the size!)

Thus, Mike Schleys scale is a bit off - he probably lifted it directly from the The North maps, which can't be relied on at all, since there is NO scale on those, its a 'per inch' thing, which is NEVER accurate. For anyone interested, the sale on his High-Res 5e map should be about 530 miles where it says '500' - not all that awful when you start shrinking it down (thus, if you characters traveled 30 miles in a day, they actually traveled 31.8 miles... who cares, right?)

But I think that may be where my mistake with the Maztica map came in - its discrepancy is very close to that... stay tuned.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Feb 2018 18:47:32
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Markustay
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Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  19:41:03  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, figured out exactly what I did wrong.

The Katashaka map was originally supposed to be at the exact same scale as the continental map (so that they could be put together later). When I work on maps, I always set my canvas size to 8½ x 11, so I will know what it will look like printed out on a standard sheet of paper, and also, so it will fit neatly in a pdf (without turning the damn things sideways! Why is it so hard for publishers today to understand most people no longer own physical books they can turn sideways?!). However, as I began the map, I decided I want all of 'Tabaxiland' and Lopango to show, so instead of expanding my canvas (and violating my own 'page size' rule), I decreased the map size to 80%, so that everything would fit properly. Unfortunately, when I pasted the map scale in from the other map, I forgot to do the resizing to the scale as well, and thats what happened there. I am not sure if I should violate my own rule and increase the canvas size, just so to maintain continuity. That may be the simplest way to proceed. This only pertains to the Katashaka map, and I can still keep the ratios correct so it will print-out nicely on page.

I have not yet gone back into the Maztica map itself, but as I said, that scale seems to be fairly close. I'll play with that next, and the corrected scale will be on the finished (labeled) map.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

EDIT:
That means my projections on how Returned Abeir fit into Maz were also off. So now the tiny bit of northern coast would be gone as well - Laerakond should have PERFECTLY replaced Maztica, minus the Lopango and City of Gold regions. That makes it much more unlikely New Waterdeep was able to survive (on either planet).

I am fairly impressed they bothered (in 4e) to get anything 'that right'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Feb 2018 20:36:43
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