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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jun 2014 : 18:25:58
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| If it's a shared setting story, yet is not canon, it might as well not be set in that shared setting. |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2014 : 20:13:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If it's a shared setting story, yet is not canon, it might as well not be set in that shared setting.
That's ridiculous, of course there are reasons to set a story within a setting despite not affecting the canon of that setting. For one it's easier to concentrate on the story when you don't have to come up with the entire setting yourself. From a non-publishing standpoint, isn't it pretty much the definition of telling a non-canon story when a DM run adventures in the canon Forgotten Realms? We use the established setting for a backdrop as we go through an adventure, series of adventures, or epic campaign, and that's it. When we're done, the canon Realms remain the same despite whatever changes we've made.
Also, other settings seem to be just fine divorcing interesting stories from the canon of the setting. Paizo seems to have no problem selling their Adventure Paths, modules, or novels set in Golarion despite none of these adjusting the canon of the setting. Imagine if they had decided to have every Adventure Path alter the canon of the setting. Twice a year the setting would face massive upheaval (some more massive than others), deal with region or world shattering threats, and otherwise be bombarded with disasters and changes as epic threat after epic threat materializes and is dealt with. Huh, that's sounding a little familiar...
By deciding to divorce the novels and adventures from canon the setting of Golarion Paizo has free reign to make adventure paths that deal with various region or world threatening scenarios without having these scenarios become a ridiculous flow of "Golarion Shaking Events" the way the Realms novels turned Faerun into a never-ending stream of catastrophes. Eberron, if I remember right, is another setting that never forced it's novels to be canon. I remember a couple fun to read Eberron trilogies that managed to tell epic stories but didn't affect the canon setting. Assuming they didn't just keep printing Eberron books out of stubbornness (which may be accurate, I have no idea) I suppose they must have sold decently well.
I think at this point the Realms cannot go back. It's novels and adventures have affected canon for the lifetime of the setting and I can't imagine them changing it now. But the idea that a setting can't have successful (wildly so in Paizo's case) non-canon stories is not accurate. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2014 : 20:54:20
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I didn't say that non-canon fiction couldn't be successful. What I said is that shared setting fiction that isn't canon might as well not be in that shared setting. The point of a shared setting is that it is a collaborative undertaking, with everyone who participates adding to it and making it a richer tapestry. It's something that everyone adds ingredients to, not something that has people working side by side and yet in total isolation, potentially at cross-purposes.
The Paizo books are not a good counter-argument, because the Paizo novels have not had major setting upheavals that reshape the landscape every third book, like we had in the Realms for a while. And I have seen material and references from the novels in the sourcebooks, as well.
And I would think that if the Eber-whatsit fiction line was all that successful, it would still be going. For-profit companies don't abandon viable revenue streams. |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2014 : 23:17:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I mean, does the work of the publisher/author lose all the value just because it is not canon??
Does it lose all entertainment value? No. A great story is still a great story, even if it's no longer canon. However, my interest in reading it will greatly decline if it's no longer canon, though I might still do so if I'm in the mood for some good fanfiction.
Does it lose all monetary value? For me, the answer is definitely yes. I have no wish to pay for material that has the same canon status as fanfiction. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2014 : 11:50:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Making the novels non canon would ruin that, basically they would be reduced to the level of fan fic and while there is nothing wrong with fan fic, I sure as heck am not gonna pay WOTC good money to read it.
Sorry, but this doesn't make much sense IMO. It basically implies that a good book -and all the work behind it- is not worth paying for, unless a corporate tells you that those events 'canonically happened' in some made up world.
While i can understand the part about the feeling of reading a part of the 'great whole', this bit truly puzzles me.
Well its not quite like that. I am someone who has a limited allowance and so must make all my decisions with that in mind. In spite of that i purchase pretty much every realms book I can get my hands on, maybe not the fancy hardcover edition but I generally get them eventually. Now are all of them great,Nope and there might be many standalone novels out there that are significantly better. But since I want to know what has happened to my favorite characters and settings I still buy the realms one instead. Now if novels were non-canonical why should i bother?
Even the books that are great or are written by famous authors will pretty much be fan fic. For example: Oh Neverwinter got blown up by a volcano but not really or a author could just go nuts with no ramifications: Elminster is dead now hes alive and now hes dead. Also in the relams Elminster would be just a myth, a made up magician. Frankly I would much rather read about the adventures of the grand Old Mage of Shadowdale. Wouldn't you? |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2014 : 21:42:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
It makes sense to me. I don't read only the novels, but the novels are the primary draw of FR for me, and for several other multimedia franchises. Even if a novel is good, or even great, if it's not canon I have little interest in reading it, and even less in paying for it.
Like Thauranil, I consider non-canon novels to basically be fanfiction, and if I feel like reading that, there's plenty of it freely available. I have limited disposable income, and I want to make sure I get maximum value for it. Material that isn't canon, that has no actual/lasting impact upon the universe it's set in, doesn't qualify.
That more or less sums up my point as well. If the novels were not canon, I would not be reading them
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
This is like saying that since there are many free stories around on the web, published books are not worthy of being bought...
Actually yes. To be worthy of being bought they must deliver something more than mere fanfiction (e.g. being canon part of a shared world much bigger than what fanfiction authors deliver)
If it's just a non-canon "what if" set in the FR it has no additional value to free fan fiction. If it's contributing it's small part to the canon greater whole it has |
Edited by - Mirtek on 01 Jul 2014 21:44:19 |
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hobbitfan
Learned Scribe
USA
164 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2014 : 22:19:49
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I'm going to bow out of this topic. I didn't mean my initial thread post as a source of contention.
I'm sorry if anyone got fired up during this discussion of the novels and canon.
I didn't think through the ramifications of throwing that idea out there.
Thanks to everyone that chimed in though. Good to read everyone's ideas. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2014 : 18:20:41
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| As someone who primarily reads the novels (I'll buy some of the sourcebooks for references), sometimes it gets confusing to me when events mentioned in the novels have actually happened outside the novels, i.e. the game setting. I understand the novels are secondary to the game, but to me, they are the biggest draw. I personally don't feel FR would have the popularity or draw it does without the novels. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Novels and campaign setting
