| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Apr 2014 : 23:26:30
|
Topic pretty much says it all.
No deity of magic to create or maintain a Weave on Abeir. Just primordials who are apparently unable or unwilling to do so.
Is there arcane magic on Abeir? Can a Toril mage use his Weave-based magic on Abeir?
I observe that (at least prior to 4E lore) mages of all types who hail from other worlds or planes (or both) could continue to practice their (non-Weave) magic in the Realms.
Indeed, the 2E Arcane Ages material not only described an ancient Netheril with access to unlimited (or at least 12th-level) magics, but it also provided a summary of retro-1E rules to allow for 1E-styled magics which could increase without limit. (For example: Karsus would be able to cast 42HD fireballs, in theory.) Apparently Mystryl‘s successor, Mystra I, imposed bans and limits on the (ab)use of the highest-potency spell levels. Probably integrated within the Weave itself, as evidenced by what happens every time the Weave breaks down. These bans and limits (along with the Weave) logically do not extend to Abeir, unless something similar was implemented by the Primordials or enforced by Ao.
|
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2014 : 00:13:10
|
Indulge me for a second if you will. I'd like to explain my viewpoint on "the weave" and how it works between different places. I pretty much picture that anywhere that has "D&D magic rules" are all "interconnected". If you will, they all run the same O/S. They all have the same base spells for use (we'll call them database entries for comparison). Now, within this O/S, local administrators are able to create and/or modify "database entries" that pertain to these spells (this can be along the lines of arcane, divine, psionic, etc... it can also be along the lines of tags for "cleric, wizard, ranger, druid, paladin, bard.... or it can be along the lines of "school of magic"..... or it can be range, duration, dice of damage, type of save, etc....). When they do so, they will often copy the previous database entry, modify it, and disable the old one. In essence, this makes that particular spell work differently within that local O/S (or in the case of new spells, it adds a new entry that is only local to said world). One thing that often happens is these local administrators will often share any new entries to other local admins, who then either make said new entry as either available or suppressed.
So, I guess what I'm saying is yes, I'm betting they did have a weave. They may or may not have had a local administrator though. It may not have been getting updates, and for all we know, it was running on a different O/S than Toril (i.e. so possibly 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5e, or 4e rules). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
 |
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2014 : 23:50:20
|
| -I would assume so, that it would encompass all of Realmspace. Abeir, being retconned into another planet in it's own little kind of pocket dimension, I would think would still be considered in Realmspace. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 08 Apr 2014 23:51:06 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2014 : 00:44:20
|
Your theory has merit, sleyvas. Although I wonder what the difference might be behind a Weave without a driver and no Weave at all. If spells work fine on Abeir then exactly what purpose does (did) Mystra serve beyond denying or limiting spells on Toril? Using your analogy, Mystra might be viewed as malware which adds no functionality yet costs system resources, imposes restrictions, and sometimes causes bugs or crashes.
Alas, Lord K, I think I disagree with your theory. If Mystra governs the Weave then surely she must have some awareness of what interacts with it, along with at least minimal ability to control, permit, or deny such interactions. Yet she categorically isn‘t permitted to manifest any divine power on Abeir. Though she has faults, and has sometimes been a persistent, obsessive meddler who oversteps her station, Mystra certainly would never dare to directly oppose Ao‘s imperatives. She seems impotent and possibly unaware as far as Abeir is concerned, I conclude that her Weave does not extend to Abeir. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2014 : 04:54:42
|
-The first and most important thing to keep in mind here is that this is one of those things that spans the chasm of multiple editions, so a lot of this kind of mashing of incomplete 2e, 3e, and 4e ideas mixed together and complimenting/opposing each other is going to cause plenty of continuity headaches. Anyway...
-Having power =/= having power and using it. Continuing with computer analogies, the IT person of some company might be able to use his/her control over the company's network to check in and see what someone is typing/clicking/writing/searching/whatever but he/she knows he/she can't go messing around willy-nilly with other computers on the system because there are rules. Applying this to Mystra, if Ao commanded her to ignore "Abeir" once it settled in its pocket dimension, it wouldn't necessarily mean that she does not have the ability to, just that she does not have the mandate to. Mystra would have to seem 'unaware' of "Abeir" because, when she existed (in-game), "Abeir" did not as its own independent thing (metagame).
-A Torilian magician would be able to use magic on "Abeir" (I didn't address that question). In past sources, we've seen Torilian magi leave Realmspace and instantly get attuned to the magic in wherever they are with no problem, so in the event that there existed no Weave in the pocket dimension that "Abeir" exists in, I would assume that the same would happen, that they'd instantly become attuned to whatever enabled them to safely cast magic.
-The shell of Realmspace is covered with millions and millions of magical glyphs, wards, runes, and so on. This is unique to Realmspace. The Weave is also unique to Realmspace. I am postulating maybe that this collection of magic might be The Weave incarnate, or a physical reflection of it. If so, that would demonstrate the existence of The Weave across The Void. No reason that "Abeir" as a planet rotating with and around "Toril" or "Abeir" would not be within its purview. As a planet in a pocket dimension, we've seen Mystra's reach extend into other "legit" planes in the past, so I would imagine that extending into a demiplane, a plane within a plane, would be something more common (and easier). |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 09 Apr 2014 04:57:56 |
|
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2014 : 09:28:16
|
I have a couple of comments.
First is more of a question really... How many planets are there in Realm space? Are we talking billions of solar systems or just 1 galaxy/solar system?
Secondly... I have always thought it strange that Mystras Ban of level 10+ spells was applied to other spaces as well... that always gave me the idea that the weave is everywhere but "the weave" is just what it is called in realm space and Mystra is its guardian. In a galaxy far far away it might be called the force.
This may not be canon at all, but in my head it makes no sense that magic runs along the same rules everywhere when the weave is not there or that it would be possible when basically in a dead magic area. And if a weave caster can attune him to a place with no weave why can’t he attune himself to a dead magic area in faerun?
So for me... the weave is everywhere under different names... i think 
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2014 : 11:55:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I have a couple of comments.
First is more of a question really... How many planets are there in Realm space? Are we talking billions of solar systems or just 1 galaxy/solar system?
Before 3E, the various planetary settings were all in crystal spheres, and each sphere was just the one solar system.
Realmspace has 8 planets.
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Secondly... I have always thought it strange that Mystras Ban of level 10+ spells was applied to other spaces as well... that always gave me the idea that the weave is everywhere but "the weave" is just what it is called in realm space and Mystra is its guardian. In a galaxy far far away it might be called the force.
Mystra's Ban applies to Realmspace, and Realmspace only.
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
This may not be canon at all, but in my head it makes no sense that magic runs along the same rules everywhere when the weave is not there or that it would be possible when basically in a dead magic area. And if a weave caster can attune him to a place with no weave why can’t he attune himself to a dead magic area in faerun?
So for me... the weave is everywhere under different names... i think
There is quite a difference between trying to access magic where it exists without an interface, and trying to access magic where it does not exist. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2014 : 15:07:19
|
Thanks Wooly...
I was thinking that a place where no weave excist (deadmagic) would be the same as being in another crystal sphere where no weave excisted.
If mystra ban only is in place in realmspace why is there no level 10 spells in D&D Greyhawk Oeth setting? |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2014 : 16:51:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Thanks Wooly...
I was thinking that a place where no weave excist (deadmagic) would be the same as being in another crystal sphere where no weave excisted.
Well, the Weave is just an interface for accessing magic... But in dead magic areas, magic does not function -- even magical items created independently of the Weave. So it's a lack of magic, not just a lack of Weave.
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
If mystra ban only is in place in realmspace why is there no level 10 spells in D&D Greyhawk Oeth setting?
Perhaps there has never been anyone skilled or knowledgeable enough to make them... Perhaps local deities of magic prohibit them... I don't think it's really addressed anywhere, since the Realms was the only setting that ever had spells higher than 9th level. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2014 : 17:42:29
|
Ok... I was wholly unaware that dead-magic zones functioned like anti magic zones. I always thought that dead-magic was "just" places where the weave did not encompass, meaning that shadow weave magic worked... or other non- weave based magics...
I would assume that Mordenkainen would have that knowledge, especially when considering his friedship with Elminster... but your point is very valid. |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2014 : 18:58:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
If mystra ban only is in place in realmspace why is there no level 10 spells in D&D Greyhawk Oeth setting?
-As far as I know, 10th level+ spells only exist in the Netheril box set, as a way to demonstrate just how powerful the Netherese archmagi were. They didn't exist anywhere else in D&D, in any other sourcebooks. In theory, if a Greyhawk sourcebook wanted to include that kind of magic, there's no reason why they couldn't. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2014 : 19:20:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
If mystra ban only is in place in realmspace why is there no level 10 spells in D&D Greyhawk Oeth setting?
-As far as I know, 10th level+ spells only exist in the Netheril box set, as a way to demonstrate just how powerful the Netherese archmagi were. They didn't exist anywhere else in D&D, in any other sourcebooks. In theory, if a Greyhawk sourcebook wanted to include that kind of magic, there's no reason why they couldn't.
They are also mentioned in the Comanthor and Fall of Myth-Drannor books.
|
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2014 : 00:46:59
|
10th (and 11th, and a single known 12th) level spells existed in ancient Netheril and are hinted at in other 2E Arcane Ages sources.
10th level spells were permitted in 2E, for wizards at level 20+ with Int 19+. But they involved lengthy, complex casting rituals, and exotic components (including major magic items), and - most significantly - the invocation of Mystra‘s direct approval. Even then, percentile rolls determined whether the casting was successful.
Elven High Mages, of course, gain access to Elven High Magic, which is essentially 10th level or higher stuff. They are able to fashion living mythallars, better than the mythallars Netherese arcanists fashioned with their 11th level spells.
Athas in the DarkSun setting has 10th and 11th (and possibly higher) level spells. No deities, no Weave, although spellcasters capable of attempting such magics are transformed into entities no longer entirely (demi)human.
The 2E DM‘s Option and Player‘s Option books (popularly aka “2.5E“) presented True Dweomers which are comparable to 10th level or higher spells. These optional rulesets could technically apply to almost any AD&D game world/setting, Greyhawk included.
Planescape lore presented a few unique spells which were effectively 10th level. Capable of being cast all sorts of Weaveless places.
|
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2014 : 00:56:43
|
Lord K ... I hadn‘t considered that although Abeir is quarantined from the cosmos, isolated from “normal“ Realmspace, in a demiplanar dimension place all its own, it can (and likely does) conform to the same fundamental physical (and metaphysical) properties as the Realms it was partitioned from. Albeit with Primordials, no deities, and no Mystra.
I suppose that magic in Abeir must generally default to Ao‘s governance (such as it is in ephemeral, wordly matters). That is, magic use exists and is typically ignored unless of sufficiently dire magnitude to break Ao‘s precious “balance“, in which case he may intervene (ToT-style, by empowering convenient mortal candidates to fix things). |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2014 : 01:29:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
If mystra ban only is in place in realmspace why is there no level 10 spells in D&D Greyhawk Oeth setting?
-As far as I know, 10th level+ spells only exist in the Netheril box set, as a way to demonstrate just how powerful the Netherese archmagi were. They didn't exist anywhere else in D&D, in any other sourcebooks. In theory, if a Greyhawk sourcebook wanted to include that kind of magic, there's no reason why they couldn't.
I'm not a Greyhawk buff, but I would say the Suel Imperium would be the perfect place for such high level magic to have existed at one time. |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2014 : 03:27:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Elven High Mages, of course, gain access to Elven High Magic, which is essentially 10th level or higher stuff. They are able to fashion living mythallars, better than the mythallars Netherese arcanists fashioned with their 11th level spells.
-Which were re-imagined in 3e into Epic Spells, which work much better thematically with how Elven High Magic was always presented (often very unstable, using multiple casters to amplify its effects, many times with costs being paid by the casters).
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Lord K ... I hadn‘t considered that although Abeir is quarantined from the cosmos, isolated from “normal“ Realmspace, in a demiplanar dimension place all its own, it can (and likely does) conform to the same fundamental physical (and metaphysical) properties as the Realms it was partitioned from. Albeit with Primordials, no deities, and no Mystra.
I suppose that magic in Abeir must generally default to Ao‘s governance (such as it is in ephemeral, wordly matters). That is, magic use exists and is typically ignored unless of sufficiently dire magnitude to break Ao‘s precious “balance“, in which case he may intervene (ToT-style, by empowering convenient mortal candidates to fix things).
-One of my biggest annoyances when 4e came out was that the exact nature of "Abeir" wasn't initially apparent. We knew that it was some kind of new place, but it wasn't made apparent just exactly what or where it was- it being a different world entirely and on another dimension were both either alluded to or the only things that made sense if you took the little information we had during those earlier days and thought about it. As we know now, it's both. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 10 Apr 2014 03:30:34 |
|
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2014 : 14:38:37
|
| Generally lack of lore is not cool in my book! |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2014 : 01:02:54
|
Weak lore.
It‘s great when things aren‘t fully disclosed. The Realms was based on the premise of always presenting new mysteries to explore whenever old ones were explained. Abeir would be a dull place if it was already completely known, new stories involving changes to the world would be more contrived and difficult to present.
But Abeir is an entire world, nearly as old and rich and complex as the Realms. Some careful forethought should have been given to defining and outlining the fundamentals, making Abeir a possible setting for adventuring instead of just some storybook recycling bin to store half-deleted Realmslore. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2014 : 01:10:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Your theory has merit, sleyvas. Although I wonder what the difference might be behind a Weave without a driver and no Weave at all. If spells work fine on Abeir then exactly what purpose does (did) Mystra serve beyond denying or limiting spells on Toril? Using your analogy, Mystra might be viewed as malware which adds no functionality yet costs system resources, imposes restrictions, and sometimes causes bugs or crashes.
Alas, Lord K, I think I disagree with your theory. If Mystra governs the Weave then surely she must have some awareness of what interacts with it, along with at least minimal ability to control, permit, or deny such interactions. Yet she categorically isn‘t permitted to manifest any divine power on Abeir. Though she has faults, and has sometimes been a persistent, obsessive meddler who oversteps her station, Mystra certainly would never dare to directly oppose Ao‘s imperatives. She seems impotent and possibly unaware as far as Abeir is concerned, I conclude that her Weave does not extend to Abeir.
In my example, Mystra is more of the system admin. The other gods are somewhat akin to database admins and programmers, in that they can take and create new spell objects, modify existing ones, etc..... (i.e. so Velsharoon can change how some necromantic effects occur). Of course, no god can just change things at his whim... all changes must be peer reviewed by a committee of gods. Mystra controls these committees and sticks some of her folks in to act as subject matter experts (i.e. Azuth has veto approval on wizard spells, Savras on divinations whether divine or arcane, Leira on illusions whether divine or arcane). Mystra can of course reach in and override the decisions of these groups, if she can prove its detrimental to the system itself. So, why does all of this blow up whenever Mystra dies? Without an administrator, the system goes into immediate "lockdown" to prevent tampering. The database entries become locked. When all of this occurs, the system reboots in an attempt to fix the problem. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2014 : 01:18:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-The shell of Realmspace is covered with millions and millions of magical glyphs, wards, runes, and so on. This is unique to Realmspace. The Weave is also unique to Realmspace. I am postulating maybe that this collection of magic might be The Weave incarnate, or a physical reflection of it. If so, that would demonstrate the existence of The Weave across The Void. No reason that "Abeir" as a planet rotating with and around "Toril" or "Abeir" would not be within its purview. As a planet in a pocket dimension, we've seen Mystra's reach extend into other "legit" planes in the past, so I would imagine that extending into a demiplane, a plane within a plane, would be something more common (and easier).
Actually, one of the things I've wondered is whether the runes surrounding the crystal sphere are either
A) some remnant somehow of the Imaskari Godwall
OR
B) some remnant somehow of the twinning of Abeir and Toril.... i.e. maybe its these runes/spells that are generating the "barrier" separating the two and keeping them out of phase. I think it would be interesting to know if any of these runes changed during the last hundred years. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2014 : 11:46:37
|
Since I first read about Abeir as a separate planet & the question of magic came up - especially when looking at what happened to magic after the Spellplague - I decided that Abeir does NOT have a Weave.
As soon as it was split from Toril it lost its Weave since Mystryl/Mystra was no longer allowed to have any influence over the planet. Even if it did keep its Weave, it would have degraded within a century or two after the split because there was no god of magic to maintain it.
However, after Mystra's death, we saw that there are other ways to access arcane magic without the Weave so Abeir almost certainly had access to such power. Maybe the presence of Abeiran natives actually aided the transition of Torilian spellcasters away from Weave dependency to the 4e spellcasting method. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
Edited by - hashimashadoo on 12 Apr 2014 18:00:28 |
|
|
|
Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2014 : 17:58:43
|
| maybe there was a primordial of raw magic, like the unicorn, Lurue |
. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2014 : 22:33:49
|
I‘d thought that Lurue - popular as she may be - was little more than a Beastlord worshipped on Toril (and Planescape Arboreum) by a Beast Cult ... essentially a demipower representing an idealized/personified beast archetype, albeit in this instance one based on a fantastic/mythological creature.
My understanding is based on pre-4E lore, however, in which numerous ranks and types and categories of deities and powers existed but primordials did not. 2E FRA: Forgotten Realms Adventures describes Lurue only in passing.
There may be a primordial of magic, given that magic is a fundamentally profound component of what makes the Realms. I maintain that the presence or absence of such a primordial does not necessitate the presence of a Weave. Particularly since, although little is known of its precise nature, the Weave on Toril appears to be a construct installed by Mystryl and maintained (poorly!) by a succession of Mystras. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 12 Apr 2014 22:41:58 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2014 : 06:11:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I‘d thought that Lurue - popular as she may be - was little more than a Beastlord worshipped on Toril (and Planescape Arboreum) by a Beast Cult ... essentially a demipower representing an idealized/personified beast archetype, albeit in this instance one based on a fantastic/mythological creature.
My understanding is based on pre-4E lore, however, in which numerous ranks and types and categories of deities and powers existed but primordials did not. 2E FRA: Forgotten Realms Adventures describes Lurue only in passing.
Some bits on Lurue, my fave Realms deity (italicized stuff is from her entry in Powers & Pantheons:
"The Queen of Talking Beasts and Intelligent Creatures is often taken with wanderlust. She can be whimsical but is infinitely loyal once she takes someone into her trust, and she never abandons her worshippers in times of need. When faced with no other option that combat, Lurue is a dedicated and intractable foe, but she prefers light banter, clever riddles, new discoveries, and the joyous exploration of life.
The Unicorn is a symbol of hope, joy, salvation, and protection for the needy, forlorn, and forsaken. Life is to be relished and lived with laughter. Quests are to be taken on a dare and gifts are to be made on a whim. Impossible dreams are to be pursued for the sheer wonder of the possibility of their completion. Everyone, no matter how unique, is to be praised for their strengths and comforted in their weaknesses. Evil melts most quickly in the face of a rapier wit and unshackled joy. Search for the unicorn and in the pursuit find happiness.
Many of Lurue's clergy are adventurers who travel about the Realms seeking wrongs to right and finding a good balance of merriment, new experiences, and self-improvement in such a profession."
The city of Silverymoon was named after her, and the entire place is considered sacred to her. Her affiliated order, the Order of the Unicorn, was founded by the Knights of the Unicorn, "a romantic, whimsical group of high-born adventurers."
That's all published canon. She was originally Ed's goddess of magic, as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2014 : 19:19:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
There may be a primordial of magic, given that magic is a fundamentally profound component of what makes the Realms. I maintain that the presence or absence of such a primordial does not necessitate the presence of a Weave. Particularly since, although little is known of its precise nature, the Weave on Toril appears to be a construct installed by Mystryl and maintained (poorly!) by a succession of Mystras.
I mean what's the Weave exactly, as far as I remember it's information/knowledge on how to harness natural energies of Realmspace. Only difference on Abeir would be that it's not sentient, cause there worshipping a concept does not create gods. Depends if you think that Selune, Shar, Mystryl started as primordials, then Ao's Sundering could split them into two.
I think that Lurue in Ed's Realms was a chaotic force, similar to a primordial, or to the Unicorn from the Amber series. |
. |
|
|
|
Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2014 : 20:03:25
|
Abeir was just a terrible idea. It draws into questions all kinds of previous Forgotten Realms lore. It was poorly thought out and poorly executed and everyone is suffering for it now. THose that liked Abeir are having it go away because it could not be stomached by the rest of the fanbase. The juxtaposition of Abeir with its alien rules does not make sense. If they were going to use it they should have just had it be a realm that operated like all the others.
I am greatly looking forward to its departure. Abeir is naught but a parasite on the realms.
|
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
Edited by - Mournblade on 14 Apr 2014 20:04:52 |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2014 : 00:13:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Actually, one of the things I've wondered is whether the runes surrounding the crystal sphere are either
A) some remnant somehow of the Imaskari Godwall
OR
B) some remnant somehow of the twinning of Abeir and Toril.... i.e. maybe its these runes/spells that are generating the "barrier" separating the two and keeping them out of phase. I think it would be interesting to know if any of these runes changed during the last hundred years.
-Addressing that last part first, no, I don't think tha we'll ever get more on a stray little tidbit from a "setting" (not sure what else to call Spelljammer) that the company hasn't supported in over a decade.
-But, anyway...(A) is a possibility in theory, since the motes of light that the runes turn into when read/touched are the only things that allow passage to/from Realmspace to other Crystal Spheres. (B) obviously wasn't the intent when that lore tidbit was written, but even that aside, I don't see how it can be shoehorned to fit. Care to elaborate further?
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Abeir was just a terrible idea. It draws into questions all kinds of previous Forgotten Realms lore. It was poorly thought out and poorly executed and everyone is suffering for it now. THose that liked Abeir are having it go away because it could not be stomached by the rest of the fanbase. The juxtaposition of Abeir with its alien rules does not make sense. If they were going to use it they should have just had it be a realm that operated like all the others.
I am greatly looking forward to its departure. Abeir is naught but a parasite on the realms.
-Are you saying that removing various aspects of the Forgotten Realms that were deemed "not Forgotten Realms enough" and replacing them with a bunch of things that, by virtue of being brand new for the event, did not feel "Forgotten Realms enough" was one step forward and two steps back? Gee, who woulda guessed that one!?
-The whole "Abeir" thing, I think, was just was dumb. I don't like the underlying concept of it from the get-go (suddenly, a new planet exists) or how it was implemented (the Spellplague randomly changed the map, replacing older fixtures with "Abeir"), but I think the 4e philosophy of less-is-more really hurt Abeir. Like I was alluding to, removing aspects of the world that were very much inspired by real-world cultures and kind of stuck out in the Forgotten Realms, and replacing them with new places that, while generically fantasy, didn't have the connection to the Forgotten Realms either, is replacing six of one thing with a half dozen of another; at least Mulhorand, Unther, and those other places had years of connecting the lore relating to those nations with the rest of the world (trade, wars, cultural diffusion). |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 15 Apr 2014 00:24:21 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Does Abeir have a Weave?
