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mikie
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Mar 2014 : 03:14:30
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Okay, I found the info I was looking for. It was in UNEARTHED ARCANA. (Duh me.) NOW my question is: In the Realms, are there sylvan elves (wood) or wild elves (grugach) ? Or are there BOTH of these races running around? OR are both the same? Any suggestions would be very useful & helpful. Thanks!
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2014 : 05:30:22
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Per Races of Faerun (I know you're using 2e, but the 3.5 is very easy to reference), all elven races are as follows:
Aquatic Elves: Page 28 in that tome indicates Aglarand, the Dragon Coast, Impiltur, Sembia, and the Vilhon Reach are viable areas to find them, while some other outposts are in the "Aquatic elf" region)
Avariel: Page 31 indicates, outside of their own "region," they can be found, Damara, the High Forest, the North, and Silverymoon
Drow: Page 34 says the Underdark, Dalelands, and old Cormanthor (fairly obvious there, I'd hope!).
Moon Elf, AKA Silver Elves: page 38 shows the Dalelands, Evermeet, High Forest, the North, Silverymoon, and Western Heartlands are good areas for these elves.
Sun Elf, AKA Gold Elves: page 40 Shows Evermeet, The North, Silverymoon, and the Western Heartlands.
Wild Elf, AKA Green Elves: Page 43 shows the Chondalwood, Chessenta, Chult, or the Shaar are good locations
Wood Elf, AKA Copper Elves: Page 45 shows the Dalelands, Great Dale, High Forest, The Northy, Tethyr, and Western Heartlands. I believe the Tehyrian ones have had a rough time with their forest being surrounded and on a peninsula, but I could be wrong there. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
Edited by - Darkmeer on 27 Mar 2014 05:32:20 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2014 : 11:41:57
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Mike,
In 2e sylvan elves, green elves, forest elves, wood elves, wild elves, copper elves and "Sy-Tel'Quessir" are only one race. They used stats from The Complete Book of Elves (generic 2e AD&D) or from Elves of Evermeet. In 3.X they were separated, and you can find stats and stories in Races of Faer�n, as mentioned by Darkmeer. The 1e Unearthed Arcana had stats for generic (core 1e AD&D) sylvan elves and for the Grugach, which are from the Greyhawk setting (although there is at least a colony of them in the Forgotten Realms).
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"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 27 Mar 2014 12:52:19 |
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mikie
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2014 : 13:14:42
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Thanks! This helps me out in trying to work in a new adventurer in my campaign.quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
Per Races of Faerun (I know you're using 2e, but the 3.5 is very easy to reference), all elven races are as follows:
Aquatic Elves: Page 28 in that tome indicates Aglarand, the Dragon Coast, Impiltur, Sembia, and the Vilhon Reach are viable areas to find them, while some other outposts are in the "Aquatic elf" region)
Avariel: Page 31 indicates, outside of their own "region," they can be found, Damara, the High Forest, the North, and Silverymoon
Drow: Page 34 says the Underdark, Dalelands, and old Cormanthor (fairly obvious there, I'd hope!).
Moon Elf, AKA Silver Elves: page 38 shows the Dalelands, Evermeet, High Forest, the North, Silverymoon, and Western Heartlands are good areas for these elves.
Sun Elf, AKA Gold Elves: page 40 Shows Evermeet, The North, Silverymoon, and the Western Heartlands.
Wild Elf, AKA Green Elves: Page 43 shows the Chondalwood, Chessenta, Chult, or the Shaar are good locations
Wood Elf, AKA Copper Elves: Page 45 shows the Dalelands, Great Dale, High Forest, The Northy, Tethyr, and Western Heartlands. I believe the Tehyrian ones have had a rough time with their forest being surrounded and on a peninsula, but I could be wrong there.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2014 : 14:40:01
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IIRC, in 2e there are a few wood elves in Evereska. They are also in the Misty Forest, the Laughing Hollow, the High Forest, the Wood of teh Sharp Teeth, Chondalwood, Rawlinswood of the Great Dale, and in the forests of Tethyr (Mir and Tethir, I think). Except for the Tethyr references, the other come from Dragon Magazine, the FR boxed set and from some adventures (Under Illefarn, for example).
EDIT: Forgot mentioning Cormanthor. At least in the times of Arcane Age's Cormanthyr it has his lot of sylvans, but maybe there are still some around. All besides Evermeet, of course. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 28 Mar 2014 11:23:03 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2014 : 19:21:53
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The FR term 'Green Elf' encapsulates both the 'barbarian' Sylvan elves and their more 'savage' cousins, the Grugach.
Interestingly, the pre-Drow dark Elves were also a type of Green elf, and probably a cross between Sylvan and Grugach in outlook and temperament.
I personally prefer those older (UA) groups to either the newest (4e) ones we got or even FR's own. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Mar 2014 23:13:36 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2014 : 21:39:26
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Grugach are not quite the same as generic sylvan/green elves (called copper elves in the Realms). Grugach and valley elves are unique to Greyhawk, just as star/mithril elves are unique to the Realms.
Elves of the Realms and of Krynn are basically identical, although with differences in cosmetic detail and - so they say - important social and historical identities which make them superior to their cousins. The canon explanation for the infestation of five basic elven flavours across so many campaign worlds is that they arrived from the stars (ie: in colonization warjammers of the Imperial Elven Armada). The mythical explanation is that Corellon and the Seldarine created elves in their images.
The 2E PHBR4: Complete Book of Elves provides details about these differences, bearing in mind that 2E tended to categorize things of a kind under unified rules while 1E tended to give special rules whenever a new (sub)species was introduced. There‘s so many conflicting “official“ stories about the origins and branches of elvenkind (especially in 3E lorebooks) that you can almost select any explanation you like and find canon to support it. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2014 : 23:16:06
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Grugach actually comes from Gruagach, and is a real term for a type of mischievous elf. They aren't just from Greyhawk; I don't know where, but I know there is a mention of them in some canon source (RoF, perhaps?)
EDIT: They are usually just referred to as 'wild elves' in FR sources, but its the same thing.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Mar 2014 23:16:53 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2014 : 04:59:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Grugach actually comes from Gruagach, and is a real term for a type of mischievous elf. They aren't just from Greyhawk; I don't know where, but I know there is a mention of them in some canon source (RoF, perhaps?)
-RoF indeed. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faer�n
Vol I- The Elves of Faer�n
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2014 : 11:19:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
They aren't just from Greyhawk; I don't know where, but I know there is a mention of them in some canon source (RoF, perhaps?)
As I said earlier, at least in 2e there is a colony of Grugach in the South, kind of near Chult, IIRC. Maybe that's why they are referenced in RoF. Or maybe it changed in 3e (like with the "eladrin" in 4e). But in 2nd edition they are not generic sylvan/wild elves.
EDIT: I read somewhere that the elves from this colony came from Greyhawk, just don't remember the source. And I've also read that Grugach and Valley Elves in AD&D are exclusive to Greyhawk.
EDIT 2: From 2e The Complete Book of Elves, the section on the GREYHAWK Campaign World on page 26:
"The elves of Oerth resemble the standard
AD&D elves in nearly every respect. They
are very much the stereotypical elf, concerned
with those things most elven. Some contend
that Oerth is the elven homeland, the place
from which all others sprang.
Contesting this claim, however, are the existence
of the grugach and the valley elves. Although
these two races may be merely offshoots of sylvan
elves and grey elves, respectively, they are found
nowhere outside the world of Greyhawk. Were Oerth
truly the elven homeland, then these two variants
would be found outside it."
I still have to find the reference about the Grugach in FR being immigrants from GH, though. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 28 Mar 2014 13:05:36 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2388 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2014 : 13:07:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The FR term 'Green Elf' encapsulates both the 'barbarian' Sylvan elves and their more 'savage' cousins, the Grugach.
Interestingly, the pre-Drow dark Elves were also a type of Green elf, and probably a cross between Sylvan and Grugach in outlook and temperament.
I personally prefer those older (UA) groups to either the newest (4e) ones we got or even FR's own.
Interstingly, despite this latter statement, the second line asserts 4e lore conflicting with other versions. 
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I know there is a mention of them in some canon source (RoF, perhaps?)
-RoF indeed.
What does it say? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2014 : 15:27:25
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Actually, it seems the name Grugach is not in Races of Faer�n... But I found this info in the Fenmarel Mestarine entry in 2e Demihuman Deities:
"In the courts of the High Suihk of Ormpur and the Overking of Lapaliiya, records dating back to the founding of both realms speak of a race of feral elves dwelling in the steaming forest who hunt down and kill any intruders into their ancient homeland. To the other races of the region, these legendary denizens of the Misty Vale are known as the grugach.
(...)
In truth, the Fair Folk of the Misty Vale are simply a primitive and highly xenophobic clan of green elves, albeit with a significant amount of moon elven and dark elven blood, who have been isolated from the outside world for centuries. The term grugach is indeed a misnomer dating back to the visit of a sorcerer from a world known as Oerth, but the name has stuck in the popular imagination of the region.
(...)
... a small band, reduced to a barbaric way of life, managed to survive with the protection of Fenmarel and took to calling themselves the Or- Tel'Quessir, or people of the woods."
Back then, Or-Tel'Quessir was a term restricted to those green/sylvan elves from the Misty Vale. It seems in 3.X they decided to split the race among wood and wild elves and expanded the idea. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 28 Mar 2014 15:47:09 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2014 : 23:37:25
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| I think I‘ve also heard of “storm elves“ from Greyhawk. Although they may have just been violent spellcasting valley elves. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2014 : 16:20:26
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quote:
Originally posted by mikie
Thanks! This helps me out in trying to work in a new adventurer in my campaign.quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
Per Races of Faerun (I know you're using 2e, but the 3.5 is very easy to reference), all elven races are as follows:
Aquatic Elves: Page 28 in that tome indicates Aglarand, the Dragon Coast, Impiltur, Sembia, and the Vilhon Reach are viable areas to find them, while some other outposts are in the "Aquatic elf" region)
Avariel: Page 31 indicates, outside of their own "region," they can be found, Damara, the High Forest, the North, and Silverymoon
Drow: Page 34 says the Underdark, Dalelands, and old Cormanthor (fairly obvious there, I'd hope!).
Moon Elf, AKA Silver Elves: page 38 shows the Dalelands, Evermeet, High Forest, the North, Silverymoon, and Western Heartlands are good areas for these elves.
Sun Elf, AKA Gold Elves: page 40 Shows Evermeet, The North, Silverymoon, and the Western Heartlands.
Wild Elf, AKA Green Elves: Page 43 shows the Chondalwood, Chessenta, Chult, or the Shaar are good locations
Wood Elf, AKA Copper Elves: Page 45 shows the Dalelands, Great Dale, High Forest, The Northy, Tethyr, and Western Heartlands. I believe the Tehyrian ones have had a rough time with their forest being surrounded and on a peninsula, but I could be wrong there.
You're welcome, although I did miss a couple of elven regions. The Avariels could also be north of Sossal (per Player's guide to Faerun), which is where their "region" is.
And Star Elves, come from Sildeyuir (accent over the "e" there), which is in Aglarond near the Yuirwood, also part of the Player's Guide to Faerun (3.5).
I should note, while I'm not a fan of either Drow or Star Elves, they are canon, should be used, and are a great source of adventure. I'm glad you found my earlier information helpful, and I hope this information here also proves helpful.
Also, I'm glad to see such a lively discussion of elves in the Realms. I've not seen such a lively discussion of any race in some time. It makes me glad to be back in these hallowed halls. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Wild elves & Sylvan elves
