Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Realmslore
 Chamber of Sages
 Questions for Ed Greenwood (2004)
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic 
Page: of 67

Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2004 :  16:50:55  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message
Of "Where Only Madmen Hide" I find no sign online.

Music: see "Music of the Forgotten Realms" (Dragon #123). No symphonies, I believe, in the modern sense.

Archliches first saw print in SJR1 Lost Ships. We saw Saharel of Spellgard in FR13 and FOR4 and Shadows of Doom. (They seem to be physically/magically identical to liches, except that human blood etc. isn't used in the lichnee process.)

The first Realms story is still accessible via archive.org:
"Heralding Ed Greenwood"
"One Comes, Unheralded, to Zirta"

Edited by - Faraer on 27 Oct 2004 18:53:30
Go to Top of Page

Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4607 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2004 :  22:10:45  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

George, Ed's story was in the 1993 IBM (4 HD) diskette first release (by SSI) of the EYE OF THE BEHOLDER III ASSAULT ON MYTH DRANNOR, but not in the later Interplay "Archives Silver Edition" Forgotten Realms Archives Volume 1 compilation DOS CD-ROM.
Specifically, it occupies about the first third (26 pages) of the paperback game "Rule Book" (of course ), part number 511591.
Hope you can find it!
love,
THO




*Smirk*

It would have been delciously ironic if Bioware had put Eds story into one of the Books you could read in the Baldurs Gate game

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
Go to Top of Page

Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2004 :  23:25:56  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message
Unfortunately, the copyright of "Moonrise Over Myth Drannor" may have been owned by SSI, and thence whoever got SSI, thus stopping either Interplay or WotC from using it...
Go to Top of Page

Talwyn
Learned Scribe

Australia
222 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  00:02:46  Show Profile  Visit Talwyn's Homepage Send Talwyn a Private Message
Greetins once more Hooded One and everyone else,

as I understand it then, an Archlich (human) is "good" as well as Baelorns (elven)?

Getting back to my second question: how would the Eilistraeen faithful feel about a male drow necromancer wanting to achieve Baelornhood? Would they try to persuade him otherwise or think that this would be useful having something of that level of power about to protect and serve the temple that it would be based in?

Thanks again to all who have chimed in with interesting information.



Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett

Go to Top of Page

RevJest
Learned Scribe

USA
115 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  03:17:46  Show Profile  Visit RevJest's Homepage Send RevJest a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer

The first Realms story is still accessible via archive.org:
"One Comes, Unheralded, to Zirta"



Have my thanks, Faraer, for your diligent searching.

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Go to Top of Page

The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  03:31:25  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello, all. I bring the latest words of Ed, thus:


Hail, Talwyn! As fellow scribes have already pointed out and listed, yes, there are ‘good’ liches in the Realms (archliches if human, baelnorn if elven). Their existence is tied to my answer to your second question.
A ‘good’ lich desires lichdom not for selfish purposes (to cheat death, or win time to finish magical work for personal satisfaction, power, or satisfaction), and not merely for revenge (“Last of the Haukren, I will abide beyond death, working tirelessly to bring about the doom of House Tannalar, until the accursed Tannalar are driven from these my family lands and exterminated where’er they swagger, to be but a forgotten name in old texts and no longer the stain on the land they now are!”).
A good lich desires to exist beyond normal mortal lifespan to protect and defend a person, family, treasure, item, place, written records or lore FOR A WIDER GOOD (for the benefit of many, or as a guardian to prevent the unleashing of something harmful before its unleashing becomes truly needful).
So if your drow male necromancer has an avowed purpose or mission requiring lichdom for its successful performance, the priestesses of the Dark Dancer will overcome their natural distaste for unlife and its deliberate seeking, and their wary regard for male drow converts, and accept the character’s desire.
Note this well, however: the purpose or mission must be life-consuming (literally, right? :}); in other words, it’s the character’s primary goal, overriding everything else. This USUALLY means a character that is best ‘retired,’ as there won’t be much opportunity for adventuring for that character, henceforth. (In other words, we don’t all get to guard artifacts that are conveniently stolen and whisked around the world so we have to spend years giving chase and fighting the folks who now possess the artifact.)
The clergy of Eilistraee will magically look into the character’s mind, and make VERY certain there’s no deception on the character’s part, the character isn’t under any magical compulsions, and the character’s er, ‘character’ means they can’t change their mind or ‘fall away’ from their mission after attaining lichdom.
The goal of: “I want to exist for centuries more than I would normally have done so because I’m a necromancer and so mastering lichdom would be the ultimate achievement for me, and it will also allow me to have centuries upon centuries to study and experiment with magic, so as to grow very powerful as a servant of Eilistraee AND perhaps even devise some new spells, which of course I’d freely share for the benefit of all servants of the Dark Dancer!” is NOT an acceptable, selfless goal, it’s merely a “I wanna be the best, oh, and here’re my rationalizations as to why you should allow it” argument.
Most baelnorn, for example, sacrificed a LOT to enter their lichnee state (giving up happy and active lives, social prominence, mobility and close enjoyment of nature, and so so). Their preservation of family vaults, treasures, and lore wasn’t really about maintaining family pride and power, it was about preserving things a beleaguered race and culture could use for its survival and improvement in the ages ahead.
So only in such specific circumstances is striving to attain lichdom an acceptable act to the Church of Eilistraee. The word of the character isn’t going to be trusted -- it’s going to be the desire of the goddess herself to make certain of the character’s innermost nature and intent, and so senior clergy will make VERY certain. If the character resists or disputes any of that process, it’s a “falling away from Eilistraee,” with appropriate treatment by the dancing priestesses.

Hello again to the Blind Ranger. Faraer has pointed out the lore reference already. Let me just add some mentions of real-world pieces of music that can be used to try to evoke or imagine the ‘sound’ of some Faerunian music.
Minstrels usually play lutes and harps, using bells, foot-stamping, sometimes sticks (the wooden equivalent of ‘spoons,’ played for rhythm against one’s knee or thigh), and occasionally ‘pipes’ (handmade hollowed wooden instruments closer to what we would call penny-whistles or even kazoos than pan pipes or flutes) when travelling from inn to tavern, entertaining with ballads.
A strong voice (such as that possessed by Maddy Prior) is prized in such work, and the Steeleye Span renditions of the folk standards “The Prickly Bush” on their CD entitled TIME, “The King” on PLEASE TO SEE THE KING, and “Who Am I?” from Maddy Prior’s solo disc FLESH & BLOOD are good ‘general examples’ of what most good ballad singing would sound like.
Listen past the lyrics to the tune and musical performance of Jake Thackray’s “Isobel Makes Love On National Monuments” to hear the rhythm and sound of a ‘standard’ tune a minstrel night set topical ribald words to (‘jokes of the day’ singing).
More typical (Dock Ward ‘low-tavern’) singing would sound closer to Ben Jonson’s “Paggington’s Pound” as performed by The Musicians of Swanne Alley on the CD entitled IN THE STREETS AND THEATRES OF LONDON/Elizabethan Ballads and Theatre Music, or Ann & Nancy Wilson’s rendition of “My Thing Is My Own” on THE RENAISSANCE ALBUM.
Moving up a rung, “Dawn of the Day” from Steeleye Span’s TONIGHT’S THE NIGHT and “Reynardine” from Maddy Prior’s ARTHUR THE KING are good examples of what intimate balladry performed for high-paying patrons (nobles in Waterdeep or Cormyr, in their parlors or private chambers) sounds like.
Monastic religious singing in the Realms is usually plainsong chanting, often accompanied by instruments playing a ‘drone’ (long-held notes, somewhat akin to real-world Gregorian chant when accompanied by lone organ notes). A good example of this can be heard on the CD entitled SALVE REGINA by the Benedictine Monks of the Abbey of Saint-Maurice & Saint-Maur, Clervaux. At its most gentle and elaborate (the clergy of Eldath, for instance), such performances sound very close to Enya’s “Isobella” (most easily found now on the ONLY TIME 4-CD collection).
Revels hosted by the wealthy in Waterdeep, Cormyr, Sembia, Amn, and Tethyr tend to employ lutists (alone or two lutists in duet). Try Paul O’Dette’s ROBIN IS TO THE GREENWOOD GONE disc for a taste of the general ‘feel’ of this. Those who hear the Peter Sellers comedic rendition of the Beatles “A Hard Day’s Night” and listen past the vocal to the musical accompaniment will hear what the grandest instrumental pieces played for the wealthy sound like.
Most upper-class revel or court dance music sounds VERY close to Terry Tucker’s “Overture To The Sun” on the soundtrack of the movie CLOCKWORK ORANGE.
The closest thing to symphonic music heard in the Realms are the triumphal marches and court pieces, and one cinematic piece captures their sound closely, EXCEPT that in the Realms you’d not hear as much ‘swirling strings’ carrying the rising melody (it would be sung or played with horns): “Promise Me” from Jerry Goldsmith’s soundtrack for the movie FIRST KNIGHT. Realms fans who attended Azoun’s funeral at GenCon some years back may recall this last piece as our processional music on that sad occasion.
I should contrast such glorious grandeur with the work song or soldiers’ march, which often sounds very like “Rogues In A Nation” from the Steeleye Span PARCEL OF ROGUES disc.
Please note that I’m not just giving you personal ‘evoke a mood’ favourites (or I’d be sneaking in Clannad, some of the Excalibur soundtrack, a lot of the LOTR movie trilogy soundtrack, and divers Jethro Tull and Genesis pieces), I’m trying to communicate the overall character of music in the Realms as I’ve imagined it down the years. I hope this helps.


So saith Ed. I know he owns all of this music; he’s played it often down the years, usually as ‘background sound’ before and after play sessions, and during our ‘chips, chip-dip, tea and chatter’ break. So if scribes want label and catalogue number information, I’m sure I can poke him into spitting it out. Ed has a huge, eclectic musical collection, by the way. He’s perhaps the only man I know whose house I can walk through and hear, as I pass from room to room (playing QUIETLY on separate music systems), Brahms, Bonzo Dog Doodah Band, Flanders & Swann, the Kipper Family, Barenaked Ladies, Pink Floyd, Blackmore’s Night, ELO, Procol Harum, John Fahey & His Orchestra, Rush, the soundtrack of Brideshead Revisited, and half a dozen medieval and renaissance instrumentalists.
Yes, he has that many rooms in his house. And books in ALL of them.
love to all,
THO
Go to Top of Page

Talwyn
Learned Scribe

Australia
222 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  05:27:53  Show Profile  Visit Talwyn's Homepage Send Talwyn a Private Message
Warmest thanks Hooded One for that very detailed reply.
It is greatly appreciated

I look forward to putting forward further questions on realms lore in the future.
Be well

Talwyn

Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett

Go to Top of Page

Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1105 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  06:08:00  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Yes, he has that many rooms in his house. And books in ALL of them.
To underscore this point, one of my most amusing memories from this year's GenCon was Ed instructing an industry personality (Ed Stark, interestingly enough) on how to find more space for books in the house. Apparently, books can go under the bed, behind paintings hung on movable wall fronts, in the salad crisper... okay, not actually inside the refridgerator, but I think you get the idea. The man has books, and his books have books. As soon as Ed finds a book small enough to fit the heel of his shoe, you can be sure he'll also be finding a way to hollow it out for storage.
Go to Top of Page

The Blind Ranger
Acolyte

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  08:30:18  Show Profile  Visit The Blind Ranger's Homepage Send The Blind Ranger a Private Message
A thousand thanks and as many bows to He Of The Greenwood for your response on music and such in the Realms.

And just for fun, what would be the three most interesting and/or pivotal events in Realms history that you could see yourself living during those times? Oh, and why?

From a fellow Realms advocate of going-on 10 years and a DM of half that time,
The Blind Ranger

I see what I need when my sight is not enough.
Go to Top of Page

Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  08:57:21  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage Send Bookwyrm a Private Message
And the only title I recognize in there (since A Hard Day's Night doesn't actually count on that list, nor the favorites that Mr. Greenwood "didn't sneak in" at the end ) is Salve Regina. I can actually sing (badly, of course) the opener to that title song. It's my mother's favorite Gregorian CD. Not, of course, to be played anywhere near my father, brother, or sister . . . apparently it's something a bare shade better than nails on a blackboard to them.

There's another instrument from Celtic Ireland that produces this wonderful, soulful drone. I saw it on a DVD (In Search of Ancient Ireland) I got for Christmas last year. I forget the name of it, but it's a large horn-like instrument originally made of brass. Not very portable, but it would be good for temples or monasteries.

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more.
Go to Top of Page

Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  09:27:10  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage Send Bookwyrm a Private Message
Ah, yes, of course. It's the side blow horn. I guess once in a while something will be named rather innocuously.

You can find sample sounds here: each horn individually, and also a collection of them. Of course, if any of you happen to see part one of the DVD I mentioned on PBS, you'll find a much better performance in there. (Also with a wonderful mood setting -- outside a thatched hut, at night, next to a fire. I wish they'd let that part of the documentary run longer! )

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more.
Go to Top of Page

Karth
Seeker

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  11:42:02  Show Profile  Visit Karth's Homepage Send Karth a Private Message
Another one for Ed. Not begging for huge detail here, just a push in the right direction. The fact that the "-dahast" wizards have elven blood is well established by Ed, of course. Among the noble families of Cormyr, which ones would be most likely to have elven blood sneaking in somewhere along the way? Specific names of the "guilty" parties would be wonderful. I have a vague suspicion that Filfaeril herself may be harboring some Myth Drannan blood, but just a hunch, with no clear evidence to point to. Am I anywhere close, or is that the magical land of NDA that I hear calling?

Further: would it be a high priority to conceal that sort of "elven taint" from common knowledge in the kingdom? Could it be used in Cormyrean society to damage a noble family's status and thus be fodder for blackmail by anyone finding it out; or is it more of a status symbol (often falsely claimed, perhaps?) for a noble family to be able to claim elven blood from their great, great, great whomever on their father's side? The Cormyrean mindset seems to be a tad schizophrenic when it comes to the People: sometimes embracing them, sometimes fearing them. So I can't decide which way this sort of thing is most likely to play out.

What shenanigans would be likely to transpire if a half-elf showed up with a legit claim to Lordship of a noble family in the kingdom?

Thanks, Ed and THO both, for keeping the glorious Realmslore coming... ;)

-Karth

Edited by - Karth on 28 Oct 2004 11:46:52
Go to Top of Page

The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  15:28:15  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello, all.
I have an oops. When cut-and-pasting Ed’s e-mail to post here, I somehow dropped a sentence:


Slow court dances sound very much like “O Mistris Mine” as performed on the Dorian compilation disc ELIZABETH’S MUSIC.


Sorry.
Ahh, Karth, what a LOVELY Realmslore question. I’ll pass it on forthwith. Ed has a stress echo test (annual heart checkups) in Toronto today, and so will be ‘away’ from all computers (except the doctor’s :} ) most of the day, so expect an answer late tonight or tomorrow.
love to all,
THO
Go to Top of Page

Karth
Seeker

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  17:17:42  Show Profile  Visit Karth's Homepage Send Karth a Private Message

quote:
Ahh, Karth, what a LOVELY Realmslore question. I’ll pass it on forthwith. Ed has a stress echo test (annual heart checkups) in Toronto today, and so will be ‘away’ from all computers (except the doctor’s :} ) most of the day, so expect an answer late tonight or tomorrow.

Ahem! Such resounding approval... I shall try to restrain the puppy-like wagging of my imaginary tail, Dear Lady. ;)

*Regards the lady's unattended leash with an appraising glance, then shakes off the evil thought resolutely*

I have many abysmally stupid questions which fairly leap from my fingers at all hours, I assure you. I try valiantly to spare Ed and this thread in general from the groan-inducing idiocy lurking there. Speaking of the man himself: let us hope that he is returned from the tender mercies of those rotten qua... er, those "noble physicians" without undue folding, spindling or mutilation.

Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  17:26:11  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Karth

*Regards the lady's unattended leash with an appraising glance, then shakes off the evil thought resolutely*


Ahem. Her leash is most definitely not unattended. And I've got a swarm of angry Miniature Giant Space Hamsters here, to prevent any foul play.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1105 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  17:37:47  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message
As regards the possibility of elven blood coursing through the veins of human Cormyrean nobles:

This is one of those "hands off" topics among the nobility, because Cormyr is a human nation, with human nobles, whose titles pass to human heirs. While it's okay to have elven blood in the family line "back in the beginning," for a non-human to claim a title in the present day would require that the claimant be the only legitimate heir to the title. The Crown and the family both have a say in who gains a family's title, and this decision includes not only legitimacy (a human noble marrying an elf would be a rather public occurance in Cormyr). Half-elves can be granted titles or marry into noble families, but the expectation is that their offspring will be human, not elven.

That said, in reality there's something of a dual nature to having elven blood. On the one hand, any suggestion that one's heritage is "less" than human is something of an offense to a noble. On the other, elven skill in music, craftsmanship, dancing or singing, or having a "fae look about you" is a compliment. It's alright to have elven blood in you, but you're supposed to be quiet about it. It is a contradictory view, to be certain, but for the most part, that's how Cormyrean's are with elves: they enjoy their cultural contributions, their beauty and their skill, but don't want elven nobles and lords because of the longevity (and consequently, the perceived power) elves enjoy. Once the elf-blood is diluted enough that it loses the possibility to create an elven noble (at least two generations removed) people tend not to talk about it at all, because nothing "bad" can come of it, and the "good" only reminds them of the disaster averted.

As for which families might have some elves in their lineage, it would be spoiling the fun to share that bit. I can say to look closely for references to the XXXXX, XXXXX and especially the XXXXX families in the future, in addition to the XXXXX. (Sorry, GDTNATA*)

*GDTNATA= Gentleman's "Don't Tell Nobody A Thing" Agreement. If I say too much, I will spoil all of Ed's fun in telling you himself.
Go to Top of Page

Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2004 :  17:51:03  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message
Hi again Ed,

I'm still fielding questions from WOTC posters and this one got me thinking since it seems to be one of the topics that really isn't explored in Realmslore. :) If you can add more to this, that would be great!

Tempus665 wrote, "Unconsciously I have always treated religion in the Realms as kind of an adult thing. I never thought about how religion influenced the lives of Faerûnian children, and now I'm wondering how it does. Do the parents take their children to church/temple every once in a while, or don't they bother until they're are older? How about parents who worship evil deities, do they openly do so in front of their children? Do they take them along to watch minor or even major rituals?"

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Go to Top of Page

The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2004 :  05:29:10  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello, all. Hearken, please, to the latest words of Ed:


Well, I survived my annual run on the treadmill and the ministrations of beautiful lady nurses and techs (and the T-shirt I doffed to let them clip on the heart monitor was my gamers’ “Resurrected” shirt, of course :}), so I’m here to answer some more Realmslore.
I echo the words of my beautiful Lady Hooded: please don’t think that because I leap to swiftly answer a current query that I’ve forgotten the older ones, okay?

kuje31, regarding children and religion, please tell Tempus665 and everyone else interested, thus:
As in our real world, how parents involve children in their worship varies, of course.
Remember, please, that the vast majority of Faerunian children have “work to do” (even if this “work” is being trained by elders) from a very early age. Only in communal (and such communities are often faith-based, like Goldenfields), wealthy (i.e. folk who can afford many servants, such as nobility, royalty, courtiers, and wannabe-noble wealthy merchants), and guild-related (apprenticeships, usually in cities) situations are the children “apart” from their parents.
So children sneak off to play, especially with other children, but their parents are usually nearby. Babes and infants hear their parents praying and performing simple (household) rituals, but the clergy of most faiths in Faerun (with exceptions, such as when a small child portrays the ‘innocent god’ or represents the virginal state in a ritual) don’t want to see children participating in elaborate temple rituals when they’re too young to understand fully (and therefore choose for themselves).
Chanting and praying without really knowing what one is doing and believing in it is just empty noise, not power for the deity.
Therefore, most churches have a ‘coming of age’ process of instruction, presentation to the priests or congregation, and oath-taking induction (sometimes with tests), and this is generally at or after puberty (or, upon the death of one or both parents, when a child is forced to act in a community as a full adult).
It’s very important that gamers not follow their real-world (usually monotheistic) thinking when considering Faerunian situations: the Realms is pantheistic, and “everyone knows” ALL the gods (at least of one’s own race) “really exist.” Unlike our real world, there’s no denying that the folk praying to another god next door aren’t just as correct as “we” are, because often “we” will also be praying to that other deity soon (if only for appeasement). The faith lies in believing this or that personal, dream-vision-induced, or priestly interpretation of the deity’s will or intentions or prohibitions, not in believing the god exists.
So young children often pray and participate, and more often watch and learn, their own beliefs deepening as they watch adults emotionally moved by venerations, divine manifestations, and life crises.
Where children ARE often involved in religion is hearing (over and over again) ‘tales of the gods,’ told by minstrels, village elders, parents, priests, peddlers, and so on—and noticing the different ways these stories are slanted by this teller and that. Such taletelling is universally encouraged (not this slanting or that version of a story, mind you, but the act of passing on the stories) as a way of educating the young about all of the gods—who governs what in daily life, why they are the way they are (or rather, various mortal rationalizations about why a god is angry or happy or beautiful or whatever), and how some gods befriended -- or came to hate and oppose -- others.

Karth, Garen Thal has given you such a complete, accurate, and superbly-worded reply that he’s left me almost nothing to say.
So, of course, I’ll find something. :}
As Garen’s answer intimated, darn near EVERY ‘oldblood’ noble family of Cormyr has (and quietly claims, without saying a thing: it’s just “understood”) elven blood, so no, it’s not a means of possible blackmail or loss of status. Moreover, NDAs forbid me from replying to your question about Filfaeril—other than to say, “MY, you’re a good guesser!” (Ahem.)
Ah, the tales I hope to have the opportunity to tell, some day.
As for a half-elf showing up to claim a noble title, ’tis like this:
1. If the family has already (apparently) ‘gone extinct’ some time ago, the title and lands left (after all debts are paid) revert to the Crown (who in recent reigns have shown no interest whatsoever in handing out such lands to neighbouring nobles hungry for more), so the claimant really faces the task of convincing the Court (read: Vangey until he retires, and Laspeera working with Alaphondar, Dowager Queen Filfaeril, Alusair, and various Highknights -- like Rhauligan -- after that) of his or her own legitimacy. Note that they’ll use magic to mind-ream (more covertly than the scenes in ELMINSTER’S DAUGHTER; it’ll probably be a day of hard questioning in the Palace, then a sumptuous meal and a luxurious apartment in the Palace for the claimant, and spells cast into the claimant’s sleeping mind), and will be inclined to simply dismiss claims more distant than direct (bastard or legitimate) offspring of the ‘main line’ lineage of the family (i.e. if an aunt of the heir sleeps around and gives birth, her offspring, or a descendant of that offspring, will have to really worm their way into the heart of a royal, or offer some valuable service to the Crown, or something of that sort for their claim to succeed). On the other hand, even if four generations have passed, the son of the eldest son of the eldest son of the long-lost brother of the heir of the day WOULD be recognized, because that’s ‘main line.’
2. If the claimant is trying to step into the lordship or become heir of a noble family that’s still very much in evidence, things get far more messy. The Court tends to try to step back and let the family members try to sort it out, and in most cases said family members use the claimant as a bargaining chip or weapon against each other. Other noble families (especially those feuding with the noble family of the claimant, or claiming to be creditors of a member of that family) may try to ‘use’ the claimant. Most such claimants meet with fatal “accidents” (food poisoning, or an unfortunate fall from the castle battlements, or hunting mishaps involving errant arrows), and the Court seldom does more than an “embarrassment investigation” (that is, War Wizard and Highknight questioning designed to achieve this: “We know you did it, you murderous noble scum, but we can’t really prove it, so we’re just going to make sure the whole kingdom knows what you’re really like; every success on entering into trade deals from now on”) into the affair unless the claimant somehow survives the murder attempt.
And you’re welcome for the Realmslore. I, too, hope to keep it coming your way for years, you and all the good scribes of Candlekeep. I don’t have time to do a proper job, and my Lady Hooded knew that quite well when she purringly persuaded me into this, but she’s made it possible. Ah, if only I could have a house full of such beautiful, intelligent, persuasive secretaries . . . (not that my wife would probably be all that pleased :}).

One more musical note (sorry, bad pun) for The Blind Ranger: although there aren’t really symphonies in the Realms, as we real-world folk know them, there ARE song-cycles: extended stories told by ballads being sung in a particular sequence. Most of these are ‘later inventions,’ concocted by a minstrel or bard stringing together their personal favourites (or tunes that they could perform well, and that were popular with paying audiences) into a story of sorts, and then knitting them together with altered lyrics, additional linking songs, and sometimes short spoken-word orations, into the tale of one hero’s life, or a romance (often between a male human and a female elf, and often doomed by the resistance of their families or communities), or the reign of a villainous king, or the saga of a fearsome dragon or other predatory monster (and its eventual defeat).

Capn Charlie. I like both of your minotaur isle ideas, and yes, I have always included a FEW intelligent, refined minotaurs, though most are brutish, barbarian-level “grunting beasts.” I’ve always treated lizard men the same way; most are tribal warriors with much cunning but not a whole lot of inspirational intellect (i.e. they can learn a new weapon, trap, or battlefield danger in a hurry in a fight with PCs, but don’t lead lives of complex culture), but a few are every bit as intelligent and accomplished as most humans. This usually means that they’re smart enough to keep isolated and largely hidden from humans. :}
In fact, my players will tell you that I always love to run individual monsters that differ in alignment or skills or abilities from the norm, just to keep PCs guessing. Hack an orc on sight, and you just slew a trusted agent of your king or priestly confessor or closest ally . . .
Ah, I’m bad.


So saith Ed. Not that I agree with him about being ‘bad.’ I’M the bad one around here!
love to all,
THO
Go to Top of Page

Baalster
Acolyte

19 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2004 :  05:50:33  Show Profile  Visit Baalster's Homepage Send Baalster a Private Message
Ed, THO, fellow scribes,

Sitting here another 20 pages into the scroll just awestruck with the knowledge flying about, I've come up with another question that has puzzled me.

Knights of the North, those who were purged from the Citadel of the Raven, when the Zhents showed their true intentions, what's their story. I understand that they were from different Moonsea cities - the Zhent "allies" when they approached them proposing to fix up the citadel. There is preciously little known about those knights. They are described as a band of "adventurers with a deep hatred of all Zhents" in Ruins of Zhentil Keep.

THO, did your knights meet them ? Any story worth telling ? And Ed, what background story you can add to thise Northern freedomfighters ? Where are they really from, where are they based ? What are their true motives and are they working alone or with other groups in the area ?

Once again, happy to be here and to have this scroll available. If anyone like me, is found compulsively hitting the Refresh button, you know how much we appreciate the updates from our hooded lady. You and Ed have my thanks for hours of splendid reading.

Baalster

The North is indeed as they say in the Vilhon Reach - a land of "hard, brutal men in leather and furs who swing overhasty swords."
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2004 :  05:55:37  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Chanting and praying without really knowing what one is doing and believing in it is just empty noise, not power for the deity.


And that's a factoid I wish more real-world people knew...

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Ah, if only I could have a house full of such beautiful, intelligent, persuasive secretaries . . . (not that my wife would probably be all that pleased :}).


Since you can't have that arrangement, can I?

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

In fact, my players will tell you that I always love to run individual monsters that differ in alignment or skills or abilities from the norm, just to keep PCs guessing. Hack an orc on sight, and you just slew a trusted agent of your king or priestly confessor or closest ally . . .
Ah, I’m bad.


Ooh, that is evil! I like!

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

So saith Ed. Not that I agree with him about being ‘bad.’ I’M the bad one around here!
love to all,
THO


And we love you for it, dear Lady Hooded One.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Karth
Seeker

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2004 :  15:46:49  Show Profile  Visit Karth's Homepage Send Karth a Private Message
Wooly Rupert: I'll see your space hamsters and raise you one Astral Dreadnought; though I have no idea what either one of us could possibly hope to get for winning dibs on the Lady's leash, beyond pleasing her inordinately with the mere fact that men are betting over her like a high-coin girl... ;)
quote:
Karth, Garen Thal has given you such a complete, accurate, and superbly-worded reply that he’s left me almost nothing to say.
So, of course, I’ll find something. :}

Well, Garen Thal pretty much just repeated every boilerplate fact that I already knew or assumed myself - not that I don't appreciate his taking the time to answer. It's always reassuring to know that you've come to the same conclusions as someone of admirable acumen. However, it was your inimitable details that I truly craved and now can gleefully scurry off with, chuckling wickedly all the way... ;)
quote:
Moreover, NDAs forbid me from replying to your question about Filfaeril—other than to say, “MY, you’re a good guesser!” (Ahem.)

The giveaways for me were:

Exhibit A: Her presence in "One Comes, Unheralded, to Zirta", circa 1967, among the leading lights of your just-born campaign; which pigeonholes her immediately as being far more important than her apparently secondary role as Azoun's wife.

Exhibit B: The revelation at the end of Elminster's Daughter. El has spent a fair amount of time in the company of lovely elven and half-elven lasses. One might fairly say that he has a predilection. The loudly unmentioned *mothers* of certain characters were left rather pointedly to the imagination.

Aye, I noticed...

You speak rather more loudly when you suddenly belt up than you do when you talk, Ed. ;)
quote:
And you’re welcome for the Realmslore. I, too, hope to keep it coming your way for years, you and all the good scribes of Candlekeep. I don’t have time to do a proper job, and my Lady Hooded knew that quite well when she purringly persuaded me into this, but she’s made it possible.

So... It seems we all owe her rather more than I initially thought for browbeating you into utter submission on the subject. You are hen-pecked, sir. But I feel certain that you would have it no other way... ;)
quote:
Ah, if only I could have a house full of such beautiful, intelligent, persuasive secretaries . . . (not that my wife would probably be all that pleased :}).

Roger that, Jubal. I'll get right on it as soon as I get my first million in the bank. It'd be worth it just for the priviledge of hearing you yell, "Front!"
quote:
So saith Ed. Not that I agree with him about being ‘bad.’ I’M the bad one around here!

Stipulated, Dear Lady. Thanks again...

-Karth
Go to Top of Page

Bruce Donohue
Learned Scribe

Canada
131 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2004 :  18:04:21  Show Profile Send Bruce Donohue a Private Message
Dear Lady Hooded One... while bad mmm not quite sure about that, I would equate you more to lustfully playful, mischevious, and incourageable to be much more prudent adjectives to describe you.

Go to Top of Page

Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe

USA
418 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2004 :  22:52:45  Show Profile  Visit Capn Charlie's Homepage Send Capn Charlie a Private Message
Many thanks, ed, for your answer to my earlier question... But now it seems my players won't let me get away with not moving ahead with my minotaur ideas.

However, I do have a few questions about the realms from one of my players who has asked me to pass it on here.

quote:
Dark Wolf: Are their any rules for war in the realms similiar to our Geneva Convention? Are there any structured rules about how prisoners of war areto be treated, wounded enemy soldiers on the battlefield, and so on. What about spies?

About Lizardfolk, what would a lizardman warrior take as loot in a raid? From a village? From a city? On a battlefield?

In thay, What kinds of prices would slaves bring? Would they be treated like a commodity, such as gold, with a static value, or something more often haggled over, like a tapestry or silver statuette? What kinds of prices might various races and species bring? What about slaves(captured and enslaved, or bred and trained as slave) with "levels". Such as trained warriors, craftsmen, etc. Give me a glimpse into the slave Market at Bezantur, what might be on sale in a given day, and what prices might it fetch.



Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary

My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think.
Go to Top of Page

RevJest
Learned Scribe

USA
115 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2004 :  01:15:18  Show Profile  Visit RevJest's Homepage Send RevJest a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie

Dark Wolf: Are their any rules for war in the realms similiar to our Geneva Convention? Are there any structured rules about how prisoners of war areto be treated, wounded enemy soldiers on the battlefield, and so on. What about spies?


The faithful of Tempus have rules about the conduct of war. I don't know if it's mentioned in Faiths and Pantheons or what, but I'm sure I read something about it somewhere. Basically a ban against dishonorable behavior. Tempus makes a point of telling his faithful not to mess with faithful of Eldath, too. And says point blank that if you run around killing them, Tempus will punish you. I guess the Lord of Battles doesn't take kindly to bullying the weak and slaughter. That's more Garagos's line of work.

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Go to Top of Page

Karth
Seeker

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2004 :  03:52:24  Show Profile  Visit Karth's Homepage Send Karth a Private Message
A quick and direct one for Ed or THO:

Need to confirm which street in Suzail is Swordstars lane, where one can find the Society of Stalwart Adventurers. It isn't labelled on any map of Suzail that I can find in my records.

Here is the relevant passage from Volo's Guide, to refresh your memory:
quote:
Seek the lantern-flanked dragonstone
archway on Swordstars Lane. Nonmem-
bers are challenged at the door.

Thanks, folks...

-Karth
Go to Top of Page

Beowulf
Learned Scribe

Canada
322 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2004 :  16:10:12  Show Profile  Visit Beowulf's Homepage Send Beowulf a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One


It’s very important that gamers not follow their real-world (usually monotheistic) thinking when considering Faerunian situations: the Realms is pantheistic, and “everyone knows” ALL the gods (at least of one’s own race) “really exist.” Unlike our real world, there’s no denying that the folk praying to another god next door aren’t just as correct as “we” are ...



Without wanting to stir any kind of strife, or thump any kind of holy scripture, I, as a religious person, just wanted to go on record as saying that us religious folk don't walk around in eternal doubt about the existence of the Godhead. Most of us know and believe like a yuppie knows and believes in oatbran. If not, we would harldy be religious, which operates off the basic premise that, yes, god exists and busies itself with relating with him/her/them and getting to know him/her/them better and better. Not to say that every religious person has direct experience with the Godhead ... but then, most atheists have no direct knoweldge of the eixtence of the atom or the shape of the earth. We do however have faith, at least, in those who do.

If we constantly walked around in doubt of our faith and convictions we would be better classified as philosophers ... who will even undermine their own existence through their abstract ponderings mind you.

Also, while some few religions have adopted an imperial standard from the very imperial societies they evolved in (and even opposed), some of us feel there is no need to deny other people their right to beleive, or not believe, as their honest experience dictates. God is BIG. And God loves poetry and metaphor, i.e. variety, which is why religion is not, and should not be treated as, a science of thought in which all things can be divided, analyzed, conquored, and placed wholy under the control of human intention. In which everything is cut and dry, matter of fact. That is what the natural sciences are for. Thats why God (another native,preChristian Anglo-Teutonic word by the by) created science!

Anyway, I just felt it necessary to clarify that. End of sermon. Sorry for the interruption.

"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda
Go to Top of Page

The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2004 :  16:44:58  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Points well taken, Beowulf.
I don't think Ed was taking a shot at folks who believe their god is the One, True, and so on.
I think Ed was 'getting at' gamers keeping in mind that multiple priesthoods of multiple gods (all of whom are known to be real to the general populace) means less "control" of religious instruction (or the daily behaviour of believers) by any particular priesthood (and so, a lot less time wasted on 'the devout of god X' arguing or fighting with 'the devout of god Y', regardless of how much individual priests may try to foment such strife), and everybody of Faerun being aware that their younglings have a LOT of information to digest and sort out.

THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 30 Oct 2004 16:50:16
Go to Top of Page

Beowulf
Learned Scribe

Canada
322 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2004 :  16:50:49  Show Profile  Visit Beowulf's Homepage Send Beowulf a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

(I don't think Ed was taking a shot at folks who believe their god is the One, True, and so on.)



Well, if someone wants to take pot shots at folk who think everyone else is stupid/evil/misguided compared to them, who think that they alone have god in a bottle, well, fire at will.

I just heard on a couple of occassions the comment that real world religious folk don't really believe in their gods. And while I figured that was probably just poorly stated, I just felt, as a religious person, the need to "balance" things? To clarify the matter.

Anyway, as they say, no harm no foul!!

"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda

Edited by - Beowulf on 30 Oct 2004 16:58:22
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2004 :  18:31:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf

I just heard on a couple of occassions the comment that real world religious folk don't really believe in their gods. And while I figured that was probably just poorly stated, I just felt, as a religious person, the need to "balance" things? To clarify the matter.

Anyway, as they say, no harm no foul!!



I did not intend to imply that all real-world religious folk did not truly believe. But there are certainly some who make a great show of being religious, but then act in a manner not all at congruous with the stated dogma of their faith. Those are some of the folk I refer to.

Further, my comment was intended to include other, non-religious situations. Not to go too far astray, but I myself refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance for a few years, except on national holidays. The reason? I was in Jr. high, and I suddenly realized I'd been mouthing the words since first grade without any real concept of their meaning -- the meaning was never taught to us, just the Pledge itself. Further, looking at my classmates, I realized that many of them, too, were mouthing the words simply by rote, with no thought as to what they were really saying. I stood and said nothing, as a form of silent protest. (I have since discontinued my quiet protest.)

And that brings me to a Realms question. Many real-world nations have various pledges of allegiance, and national anthems, and such. Do many of the Realms nations have these things?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Oct 2004 18:37:04
Go to Top of Page

Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe

USA
418 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2004 :  20:52:48  Show Profile  Visit Capn Charlie's Homepage Send Capn Charlie a Private Message
This was how I percieved her(and, indeed, their) comment, if for no other reason than I give Ed and THO more credit than to go around making unfounded accusations and reacting in a needlessly hostile manner.

I took the original statement as an admonition to those who have had no real life experience with polytheism(true polytheism) to try to wrap their noodle around exactly how it would affect a society on a fundemental level, and taking in to account the number of true polytheistic societies on earth... they were not out of lign, as most people might not have any real world experience with such a society.

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Points well taken, Beowulf.
I don't think Ed was taking a shot at folks who believe their god is the One, True, and so on.
I think Ed was 'getting at' gamers keeping in mind that multiple priesthoods of multiple gods (all of whom are known to be real to the general populace) means less "control" of religious instruction (or the daily behaviour of believers) by any particular priesthood (and so, a lot less time wasted on 'the devout of god X' arguing or fighting with 'the devout of god Y', regardless of how much individual priests may try to foment such strife), and everybody of Faerun being aware that their younglings have a LOT of information to digest and sort out.

THO


Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary

My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 67 Previous Topic Topic   
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2024 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000