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The Blind Ranger
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 00:37:39
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Well met, and well said all -- as I have been observing for some time now -- and I have recently discovered that I can do far more than simply read what's here (fancy that!) and have come forth with a question for He Of The Greenwood. Corcerning the upcoming novel you co-wrote with Elaine Cunningham, how did the two of you decide who would write what? Was there a specific 'new feel' or set of ideas that you had in taking this next look at Waterdeep? Will we be taking a peek at Skullport at all?
As a side, I wanted to let you know that the Forgotten Realms has never ceased to entertain me and provoke my imagination, and for that alone you are FAR worthy of my respect and thanks! Thanks in advance, also, for any answers you can provide.
From one whose imaginary vision is expanded each time he looks at the Realms,
The Blind Ranger |
I see what I need when my sight is not enough. |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 01:27:12
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Uh, Jabbakuk, you know that Ed Greenwood wrote THE drow rulebook, Drow of the Underdark (it contains the drow gods he created, Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, and Ghaunadaur, his adaptation of Gygax’s Elder Elemental God), right? And that he was the lead designer for the Menzoberranzan boxed set? So gamewise he’s done drow for the Realms, all right.
As for fiction, Ed once said at a GenCon panel that the Books people at TSR wanted writers to be different in the places they wrote about, the characters they used, and things they specialized in (psionics was for Dark Sun and not the Realms, “Bob” got the drow and monasteries, Elaine got Waterdeep, etc), so once RAS was doing drow books, everyone else steered clear.
I remember hearing RAS at another GenCon panel tell how he and Ed got together in some storeroom at GenCon so Bob could ask Ed if it was okay to use Malchor Harpell and Alustriel in Streams of Silver. That’s probably why you didn’t see Ed putting drow into his fiction until Steven Schend made the seventh Sister one of them (Ed put her into Silverfall).
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 01:51:54
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Hello, all.
Blind Ranger, Ed’s busy fixing a friend’s novel tonight, but I can begin to provide an answer for you (until he becomes available again, probably Sunday, and does a far more eloquent job himself) by quoting these earlier words of his on this same topic:
My first reading of Elfshadow made me think Elaine had somehow flitted wraithlike into our game sessions and eavesdropped: she got Waterdeep (especially Elaith) EXACTLY right. So for a long time I’ve wanted to work with her on a Waterdeep novel, and now we’ve got the chance.
I’ve done several collaborations now, and the fun part of each of them has been the challenge of “doing things someone else’s way,” so I always ask how my collaborator wants to divvy things up, and go along with it.
In this case, we tossed ideas, characters, and elements we wanted to put into the novel back and forth (with our editor, Peter Archer, too), and then Elaine came up with a plot and some characters.
I shot holes in the plot and added some suggestions and some more characters, and Elaine rewrote the plot.
We took the plot to Peter at last year’s GenCon Indy and HE shot holes in it. We talked, and Elaine came up with the “final” (ha ha) plot. This time with a chapter-by-chapter outline deciding who would write what. We tinkered briefly with that, and then got to work writing the first draft.
And (of course!) being a Waterdeep novel, the danged thing took on a life of its own and started changing as we wrote it. So we were both riding bareback, hanging on for dear life and writing hard and hoping we didn’t introduce TOO many screw-ups (ahem: “features”).
By THIS year’s GenCon Indy, Peter Archer had read the draft and noted things we should fix or amplify or polish. So now we’re doing that.
The result will be a pulse-pounding, Realms-shaking . . . ohh, forget all THAT. I can say this: no Danilo and Arilyn, precious little Mirt and Durnan and Piergeiron and Khelben and all that gang, and no Skullport, but nobles coming out the wazoo, Elaith, new characters, and some social issues looked at HARD.
I wanted a book that from time to time would let the reader smell Waterdeep, feel its cobbles underfoot, see and taste and ‘be there,’ and I think we’ll manage to achieve that, here and there.
And my admiration for Elaine has increased.
So saith Ed, in an e-mail to several of us Knights. A peek behind the curtain, as it were.
love to all,
THO
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The Blind Ranger
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 02:24:27
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Lady Hooded One, your promptitude ( if there is such a word) and willingness to keep us informed are blessings that many of us take for granted. Many thanks, as I contentedly await He Of The Greenwood's forthcoming response.
May the gods smile on us all,
The Blind Ranger |
I see what I need when my sight is not enough. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 04:26:12
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Hello, all.
I’ve been busily flinging your posts on to Ed’s inbox, not expecting any replies soon because of all he’s dealing with, just now, but I was surprised to get one swift reply back.
Accordingly, I bring the reply of Ed of the Greenwood to kuje31, as follows:
I rarely think of the Realms in clear-cut ‘good’ versus ‘evil’ terms: if one considers it a ‘real’ place, most creatures are ‘gray’ rather than black and white: they’re essentially selfish, but lack a vicious, predatory side to their everyday behaviour.
I don’t think evil and good are essentially out of balance in the Realms. What happens, over the years of publishing geographical-focus Realms products (e.g. Waterdeep, Cormyr), is that inevitably there’s a focus on organized communities where there’s law and fairly reliable ‘order’ on a day-to-day basis.
I’ve never understood why some gamers and readers of Realms fiction (given that so many game adventures and FR novels concentrate on treachery or war or murders or plots to unseat rulers or steal things) seem to think there’s ‘too much good’ in the Realms, or that champions of good are too numerous or too powerful. I have realized over the years that too many folks glancing at the Realms think that the Chosen of Mystra and the Harpers are all clear-cut champions of good, which isn’t quite the case.
The old TSR Code of Ethics forced us to show good always winning, and evil NEVER profiting from evil deeds, and as a result the organized forces of evil were sometimes portrayed as bumbling. However, it’s my belief (as, hey, THE expert on the Forgotten Realms) that the forces of good are all too often weak, riddled with corruption or just dissent, and woefully small compared to the rapacious, raiding forces arrayed against them, from prowling hungry monsters to racial tensions to authoritarian rulers to worshippers of out-and-out evil deities.
What explorations of the Sword Coast Heartlands, Waterdeep, Cormyr, and the Dales have shown us (and what little we’ve been told about Sembia, Amn, and Tethyr have reinforced) is that a LOT of beings in the Realms see the benefits of trade, and of keeping enough safety and rule of law in place governing trade routes and trading centers (such as port cities) to make sure trade continues, as being worth all the trouble and bloodshed -- and, in fact, being necessary for the survival of humankind in a world where orcs are more numerous and brutal, dragons are far more powerful, elves formerly had better magic, and so on.
From the first, the reason for the published Realms was to give D&D gamers who’d already mastered dungeon crawls and large sandtable (first version of CHAINMAIL) setpiece battles a WORLD to play in, something ‘outside the dungeon’ to provide a frame and a meaning for it all. Of necessity, that setting had to offer intrigues and healing and something else besides “a dungeon next door” or “more orcs” or “the next dragon’s lair,” so TSR picked up my world with its histories of lost magical books and feuding nobles and secret societies. Those things posit realms with some social sophistication, and so inevitably there’ll be laws and rulers. Yet “law” and “order” DOESN’T precisely equal “good,” and it’s just as valid to view the Realms as a series of tiny outposts of good (tiny twinkling stars) in a vast world of darkness (lawless, ‘rule of claw and blade’ evil). After all, if the forces of good WERE all-powerful, there’d be no need for adventurers, would there?
Gamers familiar only with the 3rd Edition Realms books must be missing LORDS OF DARKNESS, UNDERDARK, SERPENT KINGDOMS, and CITY OF THE SPIDER QUEEN, and to have ignored large sections of SILVER MARCHES, UNAPPROACHABLE EAST, and THE SHINING SOUTH, to have ever come to the conclusion that good “overpowers” evil.
About as far as the prevalence of good goes is this: personal daily life can be fairly good, for those who have good health and money enough, in parts of Waterdeep, Cormyr, the Dales, and Sembia -- most of the time.
Let’s see, now: orc hordes every few decades, Thay spreading tentXXX ahem, enclaves across the known Realms, the drow on the move, the daemonfey ditto, even dragons now getting into the act in a large-scale and organized manner, the Zhentarim, the Twisted Rune and the Arcane Brotherhood and half a dozen other evil sinister cabals of note, Larloch and his plots, the lurking clones of Manshoon, the Zhentarim, the Cult of the Dragon, slavers and pirates and . . . no, I’m sorry, I just don’t see how the nebulous ‘forces of good’ overpower all of these. Not with the evil we know is lurking in Calaunt and Mulmaster and Telflamm and Westgate and various Calishite cities, too, the intrigues endemic to the nobility of Amn, Tethyr, Waterdeep, and Cormyr, and serious schisms in the Harpers and in the League of the Silver Marches. To say nothing of the Malaugrym, the Phaerimm, the Shadovar, users of the Shadow Weave popping up everywhere, a concerted attack on the dryland realms from undersea forces only a few years back, the rise of a major new evil god (Cyric) . . .
Hmmm. Are you SURE these folk who think good overpowers evil are truly familiar with the Realms? Or have they just formed an impression, and see only what reinforces it?
Are they entirely unfamiliar with (gasp) Volo, Master of Evil? :}
Now. to answer your second question:
In my own games, these days, there’s very little monster-fighting, and in fact very little drawing of weapons at all. What there IS, is lots of spying and talking and taking part in intrigues, uncovering the deceit and corruption and ‘shady little deals’ that influence almost every throne in the known Realms. The kidnappers of heirs and wealthy persons (to be sold into slavery or ‘broken’ into a new faith [subverted, person and coin, to the control of a priesthood]) to be thwarted, traitors unmasked, and unscrupulous traders to be curbed. Politics to be engaged in, murder mysteries to be solved, false rumours to be countered and those spreading them stopped.
This isn’t so distant from the hints and ‘second level’ of play hinted at and built into every good Realms sourcebook. However, WotC must assume many buyers are unfamiliar with the area or topic any Realms product covers, and so must ‘go over the basics.’ They must also provide something for the monster-bashers and the explorers of unfamiliar terrain and every other sort of D&D play -- whereas I as a DM am bound to the foremost duty of providing my own players with the style of play they like, and have settled into.
Hope this helps to provide an answer. Something else that I should mention before I shut up is this: for the Realms to be a place we like to escape to or game in, it has to have some shining allure, some good things: moments of heroism and beauty and noble behaviour for us to cherish. I make no apology for putting those on display rather than wallowing in the butchery of raw evil. Realms designers have given Dungeon Masters who prefer a darker tone plenty to work with. Truly.
So saith Ed, and rather emphatically, too. 
love to all,
THO
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 05:16:11
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| Thanks Ed. I hope that your words can help settle the debate but I don't think they will since I posted most what you said earlier today. :) But hey maybe the people who keep saying there is to much good will believe a game designer over a non-game designer. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 06:37:03
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I've been finding time scarce enough to come on Candlekeep itself lately, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that I haven't been able to keep up with this scroll (it being so jam-packed with information that requires more than a moment's attention). A disapointment, certainly, but not a surprise.
However, I'm glad I noticed this.
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
I rarely think of the Realms in clear-cut ‘good’ versus ‘evil’ terms: if one considers it a ‘real’ place, most creatures are ‘gray’ rather than black and white: they’re essentially selfish, but lack a vicious, predatory side to their everyday behaviour.
I don’t think evil and good are essentially out of balance in the Realms. What happens, over the years of publishing geographical-focus Realms products (e.g. Waterdeep, Cormyr), is that inevitably there’s a focus on organized communities where there’s law and fairly reliable ‘order’ on a day-to-day basis.
I’ve never understood why some gamers and readers of Realms fiction (given that so many game adventures and FR novels concentrate on treachery or war or murders or plots to unseat rulers or steal things) seem to think there’s ‘too much good’ in the Realms, or that champions of good are too numerous or too powerful. I have realized over the years that too many folks glancing at the Realms think that the Chosen of Mystra and the Harpers are all clear-cut champions of good, which isn’t quite the case.
This first came to my attention when I joined Candlekeep -- I think it was Mournblade who was complaining about imbalance. Regardless of the originator, he was complaining that the deity aspect was heavily "good" aligned. I checked, and sure enough, 'good' outnumbers 'evil.'
It's simplistic, though. Throughout history, if you were to assign the nine-slot alignment system, good has always outnumbered evil. That's why I'm hesitant to say it was Mournblade, because he had a good grasp of history.
There are several reasons for this. First, 'good' doesn't mean that everyone works together. Second, 'evil' is very concentrated, while good spreads out.
Now, in the Realms, one would expect greater polarization than in the real world, because in the real world, you can't summon up a balrog for giggles. Does that mean that there's less evil in the real world? No, of course not. It's just in the Realms, it's closer -- and far more obvious. Which, ironically, means you need to hide it even more; evil hates the light of day, because it sees its ugliness. Contrary to old superhero comics, evil people don't normally fight for the cause of Evil.
Lastly, there's the issue of how many people equate 'law' with 'good.' Mr. Greenwood mentions this, for which I'm very glad, because it's something that I've found distressing in the general mindset:
quote:
Yet “law” and “order” DOESN’T precisely equal “good,” and it’s just as valid to view the Realms as a series of tiny outposts of good (tiny twinkling stars) in a vast world of darkness (lawless, ‘rule of claw and blade’ evil). After all, if the forces of good WERE all-powerful, there’d be no need for adventurers, would there?
This is something that I can't understand why people don't see it. Is it because most people who look at D&D live in a society with a (working) democracy? If so, it's more understandable, because in a society like that of the US, the UK, France, Spain, Australia, etc., you don't have oppressive governments. And, contrary to speculative fiction, I don't think you ever will, barring some horrible disaster and/or war.
It's only been sixty years since the fall of a Lawful Evil society, though -- a fascist empire whose battle cry was "Alles und Ordnug!" if I'm remembering the spelling right. That was a truely ordered society. But was it good? If it was, then all those people would never have died, fighting to the last to prevent it.
An anti-D&D writer used the old alignment examples to show that D&D was bad, by pointing to the concept of "Lawful Evil." He proclaimed to high heaven that this was an oxymoron. Well, I've already concluded that his school lacked a good curriculum on physics, biology, and logical rhetoric, so why not gaping holes in their history courses? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 08:45:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
because in the real world, you can't summon up a balrog for giggles.
You can't? You mean I've been wasting all this time? Dang, now how am I going to annoy my boss?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 14:37:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
An anti-D&D writer used the old alignment examples to show that D&D was bad, by pointing to the concept of "Lawful Evil." He proclaimed to high heaven that this was an oxymoron.
I always found it strange that "vikings" in various source boooks were always made out to be chaotic alignment, when in fact it was the Danes who gave us Anglophones the word law.
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 16:40:04
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| Yeah but your British Common Law is soooooooo inferior to the Civil Code! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 17:01:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
An anti-D&D writer used the old alignment examples to show that D&D was bad, by pointing to the concept of "Lawful Evil." He proclaimed to high heaven that this was an oxymoron.
I always found it strange that "vikings" in various source boooks were always made out to be chaotic alignment, when in fact it was the Danes who gave us Anglophones the word law.
*shrugs* Just because they had the word "law" doesn't mean they're obligated to act in a lawful manner... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 17:59:15
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Ed's interview is starting in 5 min!!  |
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RevJest
Learned Scribe
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 18:13:24
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Summoner Geeks
http://www.ifilm.com/filmdetail?ifilmid=220487&htv=12
The movie that was mentioned at the beginning of the show.
Alas, the toll free # for the show is Canada only.
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"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 18:17:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*shrugs* Just because they had the word "law" doesn't mean they're obligated to act in a lawful manner...
Sure it does. They just didn't weren't obliged to act in a manner that some schmuck in Rome or Jerusalem or Tibet or Neptune regarded as "lawful". The various Teutonic folk had very well defined legal system, containing elements that remained consistent from the time of Tacitus to the establishment of the Icelandic Althing, and which placed the entire burden of lawful behavior on the shoulders of the private citizen and focused on the community, rather than an abstract set of principles and the individual. Men obeyed the law, or perhaps better said, observed the law, with no police force to force them to do so, for the sake of their reputation, and broke it at the risk of their reputation.
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 18:48:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*shrugs* Just because they had the word "law" doesn't mean they're obligated to act in a lawful manner...
Sure it does. They just didn't weren't obliged to act in a manner that some schmuck in Rome or Jerusalem or Tibet or Neptune regarded as "lawful". The various Teutonic folk had very well defined legal system, containing elements that remained consistent from the time of Tacitus to the establishment of the Icelandic Althing, and which placed the entire burden of lawful behavior on the shoulders of the private citizen and focused on the community, rather than an abstract set of principles and the individual. Men obeyed the law, or perhaps better said, observed the law, with no police force to force them to do so, for the sake of their reputation, and broke it at the risk of their reputation.
Okay, so they chose to live up to the law. That's good. Still, just because the word was in their language did not mean they were obligated to follow it! All English-speaking people, for example, are not obligated to strap on a self-contained undersea breathing apparatus, and yet the word "scuba" is part of our language... Ditto for words like "adultery," "spelunking," "speeding," and "wobble."
All I'm saying is that having a word in a language is, by itself, a meaningless factoid. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 19:10:43
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Aaaaaaaarrgh! the agony of listening to insipid stories from clueless trying-to-remain-cool people without being able to call in and praise Sir of the Greenwood!! dang number the interviewer gave only worked if called from within the Province of Ontario... the other number he gave was without area code!! GRRR! 
Probably a good thing though, as the industry looks better without me calling... I'm one of the Shameless: whether I'm part of a wall after I die remains to be seen... I sure hope not! |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 21:24:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Okay, so they chose to live up to the law. That's good. Still, just because the word was in their language did not mean they were obligated to follow it! All English-speaking people, for example, are not obligated to strap on a self-contained undersea breathing apparatus, and yet the word "scuba" is part of our language... Ditto for words like "adultery," "spelunking," "speeding," and "wobble."
All I'm saying is that having a word in a language is, by itself, a meaningless factoid.
Indeed. We also had other words in the Teutonic language group like outlaw, warg, nithling, evildoer, fool, etc. And all I'm saying is just because the things one commonly associates with "law" are not present, such as zounds of codified legislation, police forces, etc. doesn't mean that a folk are not lawful. In fact, the lack of any great amount of such things may be indicative that a folk are very lawful ... and thus don't need a "Big Brother" to look after their poor uncultured and unenlightened souls ... whereas a more chaotic population, all with differing cultural visions and values, e.g. the Roman Empire, population will require a greater degree of state control and Big Brotherly love.
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 23:08:55
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Hello all,
Be at ease, PDK. The interview was . . . well, sigh! 
It was a phone-in, and CBC is closing and moving its Ottawa offices, so they had BAD technical glitches. Although Ed was there in the Kingston studio an hour early (cool place, he says, full of old vinyl records), CBC “lost” him five minutes before air, and then the studio lost their feed and the producer held a little transistor radio up to his control room mike so Ed could hear the host’s questions (and the rest of the show!). So if he seemed a little ‘out of it,’ that’s why: he was trying to talk through his own voice on echo delay, and hear Alan Neal’s VERY faint voice through it all, too. Nevertheless, Ed tells me it was still fun. Sigh again.
THO |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2004 : 00:02:41
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Meh. I still think the interviewer didn't give him enough air time. The guy had an hour-long show and only allowed 3 or 4 callers... I believe he let each one wallow too long in their 20+ year old high school stories. But eh, maybe that's just me. I also detected a hint of nonprofessionalism from the interviewer at the end as he cut Ed off the air rather abruptly. Bottom line: when you have a guest, get each caller to say something quick and switch back to the guest quickly, that way you get a lot of callers in and you maximize your guest's speaking time... I'm not in the radio/TV business but I've seen enough interviews to guess that the host of this show could have done a better job.
At least I got to hear Ed's booming barytone voice!  You, Mister Greenwood, have a very commanding voice: you succeeded your Intimidate check automatically against me! As I was listening, I realized that Ed had a better "radio voice" than the host...  |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2004 : 01:29:33
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Well said! Yes, Ed has a BRILLIANT radio voice. What you heard today was him speaking swiftly and in ‘light’ voice, so as to try to hear throughthe echoes of what he was himself saying. When he cuts loose with full, deep “I am the Voice of Doom” tones, or imitates (with deadly accuracy) various BBC and CBC announcers, it’s REALLY impressive.
I was once standing beside Ed at a party when a Leonard Cohen song came on, and Brad Roberts (vocalist of the Crash Test Dummies) “sang along” several notes lower - - - whereupon Ed grinned and came in an entire OCTAVE lower than Mr. Roberts. His voice has lost a lot since his throat surgery, but Ed used to be able to imitate both Stan Rogers and Paul Robeson (!), note for note.
And you haven’t really died until you’ve been adventuring in the Realms, and watched Torm of the Knights reach out a hand to a solid gold holy symbol of Azuth in a temple to Azuth, and had Azuth himself (Ed, of course), suddenly boom: “I THINK NOT.”
As I recall, Victor (Torm) darn near wet himself . . .
THO
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2004 : 02:27:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
I was once standing beside Ed at a party when a Leonard Cohen song came on, and Brad Roberts (vocalist of the Crash Test Dummies) “sang along” several notes lower - - - whereupon Ed grinned and came in an entire OCTAVE lower than Mr. Roberts. His voice has lost a lot since his throat surgery, but Ed used to be able to imitate both Stan Rogers and Paul Robeson (!), note for note.
THO
Yes that was a interesting listen. PDK is right also, they should have given Ed more air time!
The Crash Test Dummies! Gods I haven't heard one of thier songs in years. The last time was when MTV was actually Music Television and the song was Mmmm Mmmm Mmmmm from God Shuffled His Feet. And yes I am partly showing my age there. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2004 : 08:31:17
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
The Crash Test Dummies! Gods I haven't heard one of thier songs in years. The last time was when MTV was actually Music Television and the song was Mmmm Mmmm Mmmmm from God Shuffled His Feet. And yes I am partly showing my age there. :)
I not only remember that video, I remember the video of Weird Al's parody of the same song! |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2004 : 15:00:00
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I've told Ed about the questions elsewhere here at the 'Keep about the Border Kingdoms, and he'll follow up again to see about getting the rest of the 'orphaned' Elminster's Everwinking Eye columns in print or up on the website, somewhere and somehow. However, in his words, "don't hold your breath for anything swift and dramatic on this front."
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 16 Oct 2004 15:06:01 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2004 : 15:01:22
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And * I * remember a rock video (terrible heavy metal band, playing in some mock-Greek-ruin in an overlit 'night-time' studio) that was all a carpet of thousands of fat burning candles, gals wearing only gauzy robes, wild hair, and provocative looks . . . that had a D&D game being played er, 'behind' one of those veils (nothing to do with the naked body of the 'witch' holding it; the veil functioned as a magical window or portal to this 'other place' that looked suspiciously like a junk-filled basement full of real-world teenagers). Anyone recall the name of the group or the song? (Not that I ever want to hear that wailing again, mind you.)
THO
P.S. Ed of the Greenwood is at BakkaPhoenix Books on Yonge Street in Toronto today from 3pm onwards, at a fantasy anthology book launch with Julie Czerneda, Michelle West, Tanya Huff, and others . . . |
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Baalster
Acolyte
19 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2004 : 18:31:26
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THO,
I've got a rather good collection of Polyhedron Magazines, complete Dragon and close to complete Dungeon Magazine. If you need anything written up, let me know and I'll dive into the pile and find whatever you need.
Baalster of Whitehorn
A server in A Land Far Away NWN persistant world. |
The North is indeed as they say in the Vilhon Reach - a land of "hard, brutal men in leather and furs who swing overhasty swords." |
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The Wanderer
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2004 : 23:37:35
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I was only able to listen to him for a short while, but I have to agree with both PDK and THO; he has a very nice sounding and deep voice. :D
I also thought though that he did not get to speak enough. For the half hour that I was able to listen to show, he must of spoken for like 10 minutes of that. Most of the time it was just listening to the callers ramble on.
I wish he'd get an interview on NPR, perhaps with Terry Gross (host of Fresh Air). She always studies her subject extremely well and asks very good questions. Also, we'd get to listen to Ed for a whole hour mostly uninterrupted. :D |
The Wanderer |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2004 : 03:05:10
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Just got home (long drive) from attending Ed’s book launch. Well, it isn’t exactly Ed’s book, it’s a coming-of-age fantasy anthology (a “teens” book, with most of the main characters being teens).
SUMMONED TO DESTINY has a GORGEOUS cover, and eight stories inside. Ed is the biggest name among the authors (it’s edited by Canadian hard sf writer Julie Czerneda, and the only other sorta-big-name is fantasy writer Michelle West, aka Michelle Sagara). Three of the writers are guys, but Ed was the only male author to show (all the gals were there, and Karina Sumner-Smith is, ahem, a demure hottie, IMO).
I’ve only glanced at the stories, but I can say all of them at least looked interesting. Michelle West, who was an almost hyper extrovert at the signing, has the longest one (novella), Ed has a novelette, and the rest are a lot shorter.
BakkaPhoenix bookstore was a nice but very crowded and hot place once all the Canadian fans (and family members of most of the first-time Canadian author gals, too) crowded into the place. I met one guy, Peter Halasz, who collects ALL the books written by Canadian sf, fantasy, and horror writers, and he says Ed gives him fits because it seems Ed has a book out almost every other month!
Anyway, Ed was his usual charming (and outrageously flirtatious) self, he bought a huge box of books that made the bookstore staff really happy, and a hard-up Cdn sf writer owed one of the staff seventy bucks from some jewelry she’d made for him months back - - and when he heard about it (the guy was there and really embarrassed), Ed reached into his pocket and paid her, just like that. Classy guy, as always. Oh, yeah, he brought his wife along, and it was her 70th (!) birthday.
The store is REALLY worth a visit if you’re a fantasy or sf fan, but doesn’t have any gaming stuff. I hear they’re moving to somewhere decently larger soon, but if you’re in Toronto, Bakka is THE place to shop.
Now, I’ve only read the first few pages of Ed’s story, “Stormsong,” but so far, it seems better than his usual Realms stuff, and it LOOKS like he’s gone and given us a whole new fantasy world to game in! I hope he writes more about this new world. He told me he wanted to, but we didn’t have a chance to discuss it, because by then he was mobbed by his fellow authors and some young wannabe writer-gals asking about how to get published, and people were pulling out stories to show him. He answered everything and read through them, too. I swear the man’s a saint, and he reads like lightning. (Come to think of it, I guess he WRITES like lightning, too. ) I asked him whether we could go out for drinks, after, but he laughed and said he had to drive 130 miles home and then make dinner for his wife (her birthday), then do the dishes, and then “dig right in” to some Realms stuff WotC needs written right away this weekend.
Color me starstruck (again). Ed, you rock!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2004 : 03:49:39
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Hello, all.
Ed continues to be horribly busy, but did provide PART of an answer for ijkay:
By all means ask. Sometimes my NDAs block my answering, or answering fully, but that really applies when I know coverage of the same topic or a very close topic is upcoming soon in official WotC Realms material. Usually a “clarifying question” is okay (the 750-word format of the web columns can sometimes lead me to I omitting too much). If not, I’ll just say so, so ask away!
So saith Ed. More as soon as he provides it,
THO
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2004 : 07:25:23
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Well, I rather disliked the Moonshae trilogy as well. Did you notice, however, that it wasn't written by Mr. Greenwood? Or is every bad thing in the Realms Mr. Greenwood's fault?
I'm not the biggest fan of his FR books. My favorite is Elaine Cunningham, in fact. But I'd never say his books were horrible. In fact, if he were able to write as he wants, you'd have no grounds to complain. But he's not. Mr. Greenwood writes under the worst limitations of all Realms writers, because he no longer owns the setting. He has to write what the editors want him to write -- and unlike the other authors, he "knows" exactly how it should turn out. I'm not sure I could do that. I have a hard enough time with my writing professor making comments like (as someone here put it) she'd never read a fantasy novel before. Can you honestly expect Mr. Greenwood to perform at his best like that? WotC is stifling the Realms by not letting Mr. Greenwood do what he loves -- enriching the setting. That's why this thread is so popular, because there are so many people starving for the information he can give.
You said he takes the heroics out of the action. Take a moment and look to what you're expecting. It sounds to me like you expect a lot of difficult battles, slugging it out with the enemy, taking losses and dealing them back in a blaze of glory at the book's end. That's not how Mr. Greenwood operates. Anyone could see that. His stories never really end -- just like real life. He concentrates on the characters. The battles are just incidental, and almost unnecessary, next to what the characters themselves go through.
Take some time and read through this thread. Get a sense of what the real Realms are like, when Mr. Greenwood puts on his DM hat. You don't have to like his books. Personally, I don't like reading Dickens all that much, and A Tale of Two Cities almost puts me to sleep. That doesn't mean I don't recognize a good author. Don't make the mistake of assuming you know Mr. Greenwood based on your preconceptions of how two books should have been written. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2004 : 13:28:12
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I wasn't impressed by Alan Neal, specifically his handling of embarrassment (you should figure out why you're embarrassed by something, not wallow in it or project it onto the thing in question), his unexamined acceptance of the arbitrary D&D/geek canard, and his conflation of the medium of roleplaying and the fictional genre of D&D fantasy (which ended any analysis that could be attempted before it started).
But anyone who missed the show (as I did first time) can download it with software such as Stream Down from the CBC website while it's still up.
Re the Voice, Ed, have you discussed doing audiobooks of your fiction? Or a single short story as a free MP3 download? That could be a nice 'here's the Realms' demo, and a way to convey some of the excitement and dynamics of your game sessions.
My copy of Summoned to Destiny is ordered from amazon.co.uk (alongside, among others, Jim Steinmeyer's intriguing Hiding the Elephant).
Do you know of John Snead, Dawn Elliott, and Alejandro Melchor's Blue Rose RPG, Ed? |
Edited by - Faraer on 18 Oct 2004 13:29:57 |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2004)
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