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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4710 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2004 :  04:52:28  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf

So, where does Cormyr get the money to maintain the lifestyle their propaganda artist claim they have?



From the Crystal Grot - see Volo's Guide to Cormyr, p.10.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2004 :  06:00:55  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf

Well met!

Many nations in the west have exacted huge taxes from their civilian population to raise, train, and maintain a standing army as large as Cormyr's prior to Azoun IV's death. During the reign of Charlemagne for instance, many a Frankish churl was forced to sell his land and even his freedom to the Church in order to fund Chuckie's never-ending lust for war. So, where does Cormyr get the money to maintain the lifestyle their propaganda artist claim they have?

Friend of Hrothgar



Probably from Nationalising Treasonous nobles property and lands

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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Vanguard
Seeker

15 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2004 :  07:18:44  Show Profile  Visit Vanguard's Homepage Send Vanguard a Private Message
You only answered One of my questions, sort of. The second one about my Steam powered humanlike constructs how can I do it without magic?,
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Borch
Seeker

Germany
21 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2004 :  14:43:26  Show Profile  Visit Borch's Homepage Send Borch a Private Message
Wow,

this was well worth all the time that passed..was it really in May when I asked for these information?

Well, THO, please pass on my gratitude to Ed for delivering a mass of stuff of a size I hadn't imagined.

Happy Gaming

Sprich aus der Ferne,
heimliche Welt,
die sich so selten
zu mir gesellt
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2004 :  15:01:45  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
A pleasure, Borch. Lathtarl’s Lantern coming up in a few days, Ed says, with something on Cloak Wood to follow, of course.

Beowulf: George Krashos has, as usual, hit it dead on. Dargoth, most property confiscations are later handed out to other nobles, retiring courtiers, and citizens the Crown desires to reward as, well, rewards. It should also be remembered that the War Wizards (through spellcastings) and Purple Dragons (through repairing roads, checking fences, and providing security patrols) provide public benefits that make them both well-loved in law-abiding quarters, and that landowners are, in the main, quite willing to pay for.
THO
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Krafus
Learned Scribe

246 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2004 :  15:16:19  Show Profile  Visit Krafus's Homepage  Send Krafus an AOL message Send Krafus a Private Message
This request is not for Ed, but for The Hooded One:

Good lady, could you, from time to time (or whenever you have time), give us tidbits from Ed's campaign that you play in? I greatly enjoyed all those that you've given us so far, especially the one where King Azoun wanted to spend some private time with Storm Silverhand and it ended up in a huge mess.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1253 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2004 :  16:43:19  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message
For the impatient, more can be found on Latharl's Lantern in a Dungeon magazine a while back, I do believe.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe

Canada
322 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2004 :  20:41:24  Show Profile  Visit Beowulf's Homepage Send Beowulf a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One



Beowulf: George Krashos has, as usual, hit it dead on.




Ummm, okay. Then try this one on for size, why does this idyllic spotlessness only make me hate Cormyr all the more?

Seriously though, why is Myrmeen Lhal refered to as the Lord Lady? Why not just as Lady? There would seem to be some implication that a woman cannot lead? Or perhaps that Myrmmen is butch?

Was Comyr once more male-dominated? And the title is a hold over of some rigid, codified custom?

Breca's daddy

"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2004 :  21:05:17  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message
Myrmeen Lhal is the "Lady Lord of Arabel," or "King's Lord of Arabel," or simply "Lord of Arabel," but never "Lady of Arabel." The most basic reason is that 'lady of' very often implies that the individual being addressed is not the title holder, but the title holder's wife. In this case, the lords of cities and towns are known as "King's Lord," and have been since these posts were created. All similar positions operate in the same way. Gwennath of Tymora, Bishop of the Black Blades, was "Lady-Lord High Marshal," for example. The word "lady" on its own often implies title by marriage, or an unknown rank; the word "lord" is always one of respect, and notes the titled as worth of address as a recognition of his own value.

Cormyr was once more male-dominated, and it still leans towards men as successors, inheritors, lords, and military commanders. The war wizards, perhaps more than any other group, is merit-based--most likely due to their original founding by Amedahast, a woman--and the Purple Dragons do not discriminate for entry, but when walking across Cormyr, one will see far more men as knights, officers, and titled nobles than one will see women.

I don't know that I'd call Myrmeen "butch." She's stunningly beautiful, after all. The fact that she could probably cut your belly open or kick your teeth down your throat before you remembered your manners doesn't mean she's mannish; she merely wishes to prove herself the equal of any man.
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe

Canada
322 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2004 :  21:24:30  Show Profile  Visit Beowulf's Homepage Send Beowulf a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal


I don't know that I'd call Myrmeen "butch." She's stunningly beautiful, after all. The fact that she could probably cut your belly open or kick your teeth down your throat before you remembered your manners doesn't mean she's mannish; she merely wishes to prove herself the equal of any man.



Not to be arguementative of course but i would say that that is the very definition of butch. She wishes to be as good as any man in regards to manly pursuits.

Last King of the Geats

"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2004 :  21:38:16  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal

The word "lady" on its own often implies title by marriage, or an unknown rank; the word "lord" is always one of respect, and notes the titled as worth of address as a recognition of his own value.



Which explains why in Volo's Guide to Cormyr, it's mentioned on page 53 that

quote:

In most circumstances, it's considered an insult to call Myrmeen "lady" rather than "lord."



quote:

I don't know that I'd call Myrmeen "butch."



I wouldn't. However, feel free anyone out there to have your characters call her that to her face. Just be prepared for the reaction.
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eiglos
Acolyte

United Kingdom
12 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2004 :  15:17:02  Show Profile Send eiglos a Private Message
Greetings all,

I recently discovered this forum and the staggering amount of Realmslore it contains. Thanks to Ed and the Hooded One for sharing it all with us .

I was very fortunate to meet Ed when he attended Gencon UK in, I believe, 2002. My FRCS bears a superb dedication to Lurue, my favourite Realmsian god . I was intrigued to read here that Lurue was originally THE embodiment of magic. How I wish she still was!

I would love to know more about Lurue as she is now, in particular how she is worshipped and any rites involved. I have read what is in Powers and Pantheons. I understand about the Knights of the Unicorn and I look forward to whatever creative work someone else is already working on. Might it be a novel in the "Clerics" series ?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29637 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2004 :  16:54:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by eiglos

Greetings all,

I recently discovered this forum and the staggering amount of Realmslore it contains. Thanks to Ed and the Hooded One for sharing it all with us .

I was very fortunate to meet Ed when he attended Gencon UK in, I believe, 2002. My FRCS bears a superb dedication to Lurue, my favourite Realmsian god . I was intrigued to read here that Lurue was originally THE embodiment of magic. How I wish she still was!

I would love to know more about Lurue as she is now, in particular how she is worshipped and any rites involved. I have read what is in Powers and Pantheons. I understand about the Knights of the Unicorn and I look forward to whatever creative work someone else is already working on. Might it be a novel in the "Clerics" series ?



Ah, another fan of Lurue!

I'll second his request.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2004 :  17:30:27  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by eiglos
I would love to know more about Lurue as she is now, in particular how she is worshipped and any rites involved. I have read what is in Powers and Pantheons. I understand about the Knights of the Unicorn and I look forward to whatever creative work someone else is already working on. Might it be a novel in the "Clerics" series ?



Pick up the first novel in the Priests series, Lady of Poison by Bruce Cordell. A cleric of Lurue is one of the main characters in the novel. A thread exists in this forum for the novel. However, proceed with a warning, spoilers are contained within it.

P.S. Welcome to Candlekeep!

Edited by - SiriusBlack on 09 Jul 2004 17:32:11
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2004 :  01:27:33  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Beowulf:

Ummm, okay. Then try this one on for size, why does this idyllic spotlessness only make me hate Cormyr all the more?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Um, "idyllic spotlessness"?
What Cormyr have YOU been reading about?
Nobles trying to slay the royal family, half the kingdom laid waste, open rebellion, crooked War Wizards, the king slain (and him a womanizer of legendary proportions), more threats in Ed's latest novel..."idyllic spotlessness"?
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Karth
Learned Scribe

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2004 :  10:57:45  Show Profile  Visit Karth's Homepage  Send Karth an AOL message Send Karth a Private Message
Another one for Ed to tackle, if he will. Herewith, I enter the queue...

Ed, I've been reading your write-ups for Storm's "quieter days" on the Wizards site. A concept that is mentioned there, and seemingly more often as time goes on in your other stories of the Chosen as well, is the concept of "mind-reaming".

Now, it is pretty obvious from context what the general concept is, so I don't need that defined or anything. What I would like to hear your take on are the *exact* processes - spells used, heretofore unknown Chosen abilities brought to bear, rituals or items - that are involved when a Chosen or other magically powerful being (archmage, demigod, greater demon, etc.) wrings a captive mind dry of information in this manner.

Specifically:

1) Can it be done in such a way as not to damage the mind being "reamed"? I can easily imagine Storm, Sylune or Alustriel being gentle in this regard. So how would they go about doing it "gently"? Are there limitations to what can be accomplished by doing it the gentle way? Precisely what are those limits, in your view?

2) If precautions against permanent damage to the subject mind are either not possible or not taken (I don't see the Simbul giving a damn either way in the case of a captive red wizard, for example) what exactly is the array of possible consequences/after effects to the subject and how do you adjudicate them as a practical game mechanic matter in your campaign?

3) What spells/effects might be used to restructure or otherwise hide the memory of being subjected to this treatment from the victim after it is complete? Presumably, Storm would want the evidence of tampering hidden reliably and permanently.

4) Can such radical damage to the mind/memories of the victim be repaired or are they essentially "ghost-hacked" - to borrow a term from 'Ghost in the Shell' - and either insane or their original identity lost forever? I know this was somewhat tackled anecdotally in 'Elminster in Hell', but I'm interested in the actual game mechanics of it as you run it at home with the Knights.

5) What would be the general attitude of the Chosen and other good or neutral-aligned personages in your writings toward the ethics and consequences of using such techniques on captured enemies? When is it considered kosher and when is it frowned upon? How would the Harpers view the technique as a matter of policy?

I don't think we really need to wonder at Khelben's attitude. In any case, Steven Schend may have an strong opinion on that one. Love to hear it.

Ed, if 'Wizards Three' type of spell write-ups or other detailed processes are necessary for you to explain this process, I am more than willing to wait patiently and will be hard-pressed to hide my manic glee from general observation when I see what you come up with... ;)


Thanks,

Karth


THO: Thanks for fielding the ball, dear lady, as always.
*******************

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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe

USA
418 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2004 :  15:13:42  Show Profile  Visit Capn Charlie's Homepage  Click to see Capn Charlie's MSN Messenger address  Send Capn Charlie a Yahoo! Message Send Capn Charlie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf

quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal


I don't know that I'd call Myrmeen "butch." She's stunningly beautiful, after all. The fact that she could probably cut your belly open or kick your teeth down your throat before you remembered your manners doesn't mean she's mannish; she merely wishes to prove herself the equal of any man.



Not to be arguementative of course but i would say that that is the very definition of butch. She wishes to be as good as any man in regards to manly pursuits.

Last King of the Geats



Ahh, but that requires the mindset that a pursuit can belong totally to one gender over another, an outlook that often has more to do with societal programming than any good reason. I have known women that can fight, cuss, drink, steal, spit and whore just as well as any man, and better than most, and while those traits can be admired in a man by some men, due to the values ingrained by our society they are reviled in women, often by the smae individuals.

It is completely reasonable to assume that in a culture with a broader view of gender roles(usually precipitated by technology, but magic or active gods will do) that more of an emphasis could be placed on anaction being more or less "refined" than being "manly". Thsi could be taken to even farther degrees by the presence f nobility, withthe least of nobles being more important han the most of commoners in some lands.

Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary

My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think.
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe

USA
418 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2004 :  15:16:45  Show Profile  Visit Capn Charlie's Homepage  Click to see Capn Charlie's MSN Messenger address  Send Capn Charlie a Yahoo! Message Send Capn Charlie a Private Message
I greatly enjoyed the writeup on Ulgoth's Beard, and wil likely use it at some point in my game. Many thanks to both Ed and THO.

I have recently been thinking about it, and was spurred to ask by concerns brought up in a few of the posts around here.

How universal are the religions? I mean, is a practicing worshipper that specifically reveres say, Chauntea, in one corner of the relams going to have the same methods of worship, knowledge of tales, and religion related customs and practices as a worshiiper of the same deity that lives in another land?

I can understand that differences between certain customs in different lands could have an impact on religious practices, but how large can these differences be? Are the tales told about the various gods and goddeses mostly the same in most lands, with a minimum of changes, or can they vary wildly with some lands clergies almost revering a different deity with different history than others?

Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary

My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2004 :  15:24:33  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Ed is away and busy with family (and GenCon; you’ll all know why soon ) matters this weekend, but I know he’ll love this question, Karth. As to whether or not you’ll get detailed 3.5e spells out of him, probably not (NDAs rear their ugly heads here). Just off the top of my head (must run, as I TOO have things to attend to this weekend, unfortunately), from my experiences playing in the original Realms campaign, I can say this much:
It’s quite possible to “mind-ream” gently, if the reamer knows what he or she is doing. Damage usually occurs when the mind to be read is fighting the invasive mind, and the reamer “bears down” to get at memories and knowledge that’s being deliberately concealed. Mind-reaming is VERY hard against a mind that’s alert, hostile, and experienced at wielding magic, and harder against stronger personalities. It’s easier against a sleeping (or rather, dreaming, because a skilled reamer can ‘steer the dreams’ so the mind being read does the work of revealing) or willing and relaxed mind. Certain spells can block it, backlash against the reamer, or misdirect what is “seen.”
Sylune’s ability to detect emotions, lies, and the like have been enhanced since her death, but her abilities to initiate and launch magic (as opposed to working with magic cast by others) sharply limited. She can “drift” into a sleeping, dreaming mind of a being who’s physically VERY close, and even ‘ride’ a reaming attempt by someone else into a mind, but she can no longer undertake mind-reams (or lots of other magics, for that matter) by herself. She’s still learning her limitations, and I regret that Ed hasn’t had the in-print opportunities to detail them as fully as he’d like to (Winterfox implied in another thread here in Novels that Sylune’s status as a spectral harpist hasn’t really meant much of a change, which is wrong – but also fair comment, given how little has been put into print, thus far.)
What Ed hasn’t wanted to do is lay out an explicit process for mind-reaming – because as a roleplaying-first DM, he has said (to we Knights) that it’s the perfect “research it for yourself, for years, ho ho” field.
But I’ll shut up now, e-toss this Ed’s way, and see what HE says.
THO
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Faraer
Great Reader

3291 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2004 :  15:53:12  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message
Certes, in the Realms at least only male chauvinists would characterize female warriors as 'butch' (or a Realms-equivalent word).

Ed, part of my not-yet-asked question about magic includes a request to list (just list, with levels) ten of the most widespread yet-unpublished mage spells. Sounds like I just asked that part of it. And I guess, any time you want to tell us anything of Sharanralee, we'll listen.

(And -- *Physic* Garden!)
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe

Canada
322 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2004 :  15:58:36  Show Profile  Visit Beowulf's Homepage Send Beowulf a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie


How universal are the religions? I mean, is a practicing worshipper that specifically reveres say, Chauntea, in one corner of the relams going to have the same methods of worship, knowledge of tales, and religion related customs and practices as a worshiiper of the same deity that lives in another land?

I can understand that differences between certain customs in different lands could have an impact on religious practices, but how large can these differences be? Are the tales told about the various gods and goddeses mostly the same in most lands, with a minimum of changes, or can they vary wildly with some lands clergies almost revering a different deity with different history than others?




To draw on the real world differnces can be quite great. Take the FR god TyR for instance. His name liley goes back some 6,000+ years to the original high god of the Indo-European pantheon .... the I-E's being the cultural ancestors of the Hindu's, the Hittites, the Iranians, the Greeks, the Romans, Celts, Teutons, Balts, etc. However, to look at Zeus and Jupiter and Sius and Dyaus, etc. one can see a large degree of disparity. Enough to question whethre or not they are the same god. Certainly, if they are the same god, we are seeing differing understandings of that god, or perhaps just different gods altogether. And of course the fact that the name is cognate is not always tell tale. Afterall ,in modern Romance speaking countries the Christian God is called Deus, which is a Latin cognate of the god-name Tiw/TyR and it's various relatives!!!

Even within the context of Teutonic belief itself there can be enough disparity between the TyR (Zio, Ziu)worshipped by the "Germans" in the 1st century, the TyR (Tiw, Tio, Tiu, Tig) worshipped by the English in the 6th century, and the TyR worshipped by Norse in the Viking Age. We won't go into that though ...

Surprisingly, this lack of orthadoxy and uniformity only gets "worse" once you add orthadoxy and doctrine to the formula. Differeing sects of Christianity often have beleifs and conceptions that differe so wildly from the original belief or their neighbours that one questions whether they are worshipping the same god. In fact, it has been observed that there was far more doctrinal consistency between the ancient Teutonic tribes for instance then there ever has been in Christianity ... depsite no attempts vs. every possible attempt to preserve orthadoxy in the specific religions.

Of course, this might differ profoundly in a world were gods are .... obvious in their being, like an atom is "obvious" to a scientist. Real world religion is, properly, more like poetry than science and thus is open to interpretation and variety, limited only by the cultural metaphor and grasp of nuance.

"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe

USA
418 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2004 :  16:33:48  Show Profile  Visit Capn Charlie's Homepage  Click to see Capn Charlie's MSN Messenger address  Send Capn Charlie a Yahoo! Message Send Capn Charlie a Private Message
Indeed, Beowulf, I was wanting to use real world religions as an example, but was not wanting to trivialize what some pople base their lives around by comparing it to something from a game.

I reckon that their might be less drift in the realms, due to the evolution of the faiths in an environment of being more in touch with the deities, and with accesss to longrange communication far more efficient than that available on earth.

Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary

My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think.
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eiglos
Acolyte

United Kingdom
12 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2004 :  14:44:56  Show Profile Send eiglos a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

Pick up the first novel in the Priests series, Lady of Poison by Bruce Cordell. A cleric of Lurue is one of the main characters in the novel. A thread exists in this forum for the novel. However, proceed with a warning, spoilers are contained within it.



Sirius,

Many thanks for the information! I am in London this coming week so hopefully I can buy the book in one of the gaming shops there.

Wooly - always good to meet another fan of Lurue!

Edited by - Alaundo on 12 Jul 2004 09:20:53
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2004 :  14:47:27  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by eiglos
Sirius,

Many thanks for the information! I am in London this coming week so hopefully I can buy the book in one of the gaming shops there.



You're welcome and I hope you obtain the book soon. Once you do, please share your thoughts on it in the aforementioned thread.
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2004 :  03:24:50  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Eiglos, I was listening to Ed talk to fans in a hallway at GenCon Indy last year and he said he LOVED his visit to GenCon UK (and touring the games shops afterwards, too). He met so many great gamers and good friends, and would love to do it again.
Unfortunately, he also said he doubted he'd ever have the two months and twenty thousand surplus pounds to blow, to really see London properly. He's done dozens of fleeting visits there, down the years, but never had time to just wander and shop. (And his first encounter with pop-up loos gave him a WEIRD game idea! )
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