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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30205 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2004 :  06:31:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Of course, Wooly. If you can fight your way past all these Knights in shining armor. I prefer soft wool to hard metal, after all.

THO



No worries, I'd just plague them all with swarms of Miniature Giant Space Hamsters.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5041 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2004 :  15:34:43  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Faraer, Ed provided Eric with a lot of lore for that book, but didn’t participate in the writing of it other than to review and offer corrections.
As I recall, he wasn’t happy with the product because it was in the “Great White Space” era of TSR products, and Ed thought that with a smaller font, smaller margins, less use of over-large and poor artwork, and so on, easily twice as much lore could have been squeezed into the same space, WITH an index. He was hoping for heraldry and skeletal entries of all the noble families, at the very least.
However, neither Eric Haddock nor his editor were to blame for the standards set by TSR senior management. Ed has always believed in value for money, because he’s a “greedy for more lore” gamer first and foremost. Ed would be happy with 6-point type, NO margins, full use of inside and outside covers for lore (worried about wear? Photocopy the outside of your covers the moment you get it home!), and all the legal bumpf crammed onto half a page that also has some useful game lore shoehorned onto it.
After all, in Ed’s opinion, opening a Realms product should feel like opening an ancient grimoire.
THO
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2004 :  15:40:01  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
WITH an index. He was hoping for heraldry and skeletal entries of all the noble families, at the very least.



For what it's worth, I hope EG knows any heraldry he can convince WOTC to place in future FR products would be greatly appreciated. I'm not even going to comment on the lack of an index for some gaming products these days. I trust as a librarian, such an omission can cause EG to pull out his hair.

quote:

After all, in Ed’s opinion, opening a Realms product should feel like opening an ancient grimoire.
THO




Agreed. For all the products he has helped make feel like that experience, a big thank you.
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Faraer
Great Reader

3296 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2004 :  16:26:28  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message
Unfortunately, Cormyr is one of the handful of mid-90s products that (despite being published in this case a year before the vastly richer Volo's Guide to Cormyr) gave some the impression that more WotC books detailing the Heartlands and Sword Coast North are likely to mostly duplicate previous material -- despite Silver Marches proving that wrong.

The problems with those books ranged from lack of wordcount, to non-Realms-infused prose, to repeated copy, to errors and omissions (like FRS1's missing maps).
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30205 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2004 :  16:30:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
Lovely Lady Hooded One, I have yet another question for the esteemed sage Ed...

The Rumors and Events section of The Stonelands and the Goblin Marches booklet of Elminster's Ecologies mentions a book called the Yielding Tide.

The Yielding Tide tells of a forgotten city-state that may have existed in the High Moors, and how the powerful wizards of that city captured a minor goddess. This goddess may still be imprisoned under that city...

First, was this a bit of your lore, or did someone else create this? Second, if it was yours, can you provide any further info about either the city or the goddess (or even the book itself)?


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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2004 :  05:05:54  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
Congrats to Ed Greenwood for his Hall of Fame induction at this year's Origins Awards.
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe

Norway
377 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2004 :  07:08:51  Show Profile Send Elfinblade a Private Message
Greetings Ed Greenwood and Hooded one.
today, i have but one question;
The famed war with the tuigan horde.. in every other novel i`ve read, the writer seems to mention this war. namely books concerning cormyr and the like. but were there any novels published that was dealing with this historic event? i know almost nothing of it, only that King Azoun and the war wizards was crucial in the tuigans defeat..
please..indulge me..
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2004 :  07:20:23  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Elfinblade
The famed war with the tuigan horde.. in every other novel i`ve read, the writer seems to mention this war. namely books concerning cormyr and the like. but were there any novels published that was dealing with this historic event?



There was a trio of novels called, The Empires Trilogy that detailed this event.
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2004 :  12:04:14  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message
Im getting the feeling Ed must have followed a white rabbit down a rabbit hole

We havent heard from in 10 days

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks

Edited by - Dargoth on 30 Jun 2004 00:19:47
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Faraer
Great Reader

3296 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2004 :  17:14:03  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

Congrats to Ed Greenwood for his Hall of Fame induction at this year's Origins Awards.

Yeah. Though apparently at the awards ceremony all the games, books, etc. were attributed to the publishers and no authors or other creators were mentioned.
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2004 :  19:43:28  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message
A little birdie told me that it's quite possible Ed took a drive down to the States to attend the ALA (American Library Association) Annual Conference in 2004, which is just wrapping up today. Since the darned thing is in Florida--quite the drive from Ontario--the Sage of the Greenwood will hopefully be back some time over the weekend.

In the meantime, we *cough* 'lords of Realmslore' stand ready to answer whatever questions you might have.

Tankards high!
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Sarta
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2004 :  06:46:15  Show Profile Send Sarta a Private Message
For all we know, the Hooded One may be busy as well.

While I know that Wooly and a few others believe that she lives to tease them, I'm willing to bet that she has a life of her own as well.

Sarta
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30205 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2004 :  07:25:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Sarta

For all we know, the Hooded One may be busy as well.

While I know that Wooly and a few others believe that she lives to tease them, I'm willing to bet that she has a life of her own as well.

Sarta



NO!! Don't say such cruel things!!


Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe

Canada
322 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2004 :  15:19:58  Show Profile  Visit Beowulf's Homepage Send Beowulf a Private Message
Well met!

I would like to know what Ed thinks about the possibility of a revolt or rebellion of somekind in Cormyr now that Azoun IV is dead and a mere babe has been named Monarch.

Also, what do surrounding powers and outlying provinces such as the Tunlands make of Cormyr? The Tunlands for instance are claimed by the Crown up to the Far Hills, but the only business the Crown ever conducts in the western reaches are raids against so-called bandits, ie. native, tribal Tunlanders.

Simliarly, I believe it was in the Crypt of the Shadow King that it is mentioned that the Sunset Vale as we know it today was colonized by Cormyrean pioneers. And yet where was theCrown when the Lich-Queen arose in the Darkhold? Do the folk of the Vale resent the Crown for it's ... moral cowardice?

Grendel's Daddy

"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30205 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2004 :  16:51:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf

Well met!

I would like to know what Ed thinks about the possibility of a revolt or rebellion of somekind in Cormyr now that Azoun IV is dead and a mere babe has been named Monarch.


If you read his newest book, Elminster's Daughter, then you'll know what he thinks of this possibility. I'd say more, but I've no wish to deliver any spoilers.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2004 :  16:55:07  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf

Well met!

I would like to know what Ed thinks about the possibility of a revolt or rebellion of somekind in Cormyr now that Azoun IV is dead and a mere babe has been named Monarch.



Here's a link to a thread discussing the novel WR mentioned. Beware, the thread does contain spoilers.
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Faraer
Great Reader

3296 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2004 :  17:10:52  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message
& we non-lords of Realmslore will keep helping too, Garen, though I'll gladly defer to you re Cormyr.
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2004 :  17:16:46  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message
I think it's fair to say that Ed's take on Cormyrean revolt is that it's always lurking somewhere, whether it is the venerable Fourth Azoun or the infant Fifth. Some idiot always thinks that getting rid of the few remaining Obarskyrs is all it'll take to grasp firm hold of the throne, not realizing the two eternal truths of Cormyr: that her Throne is strongest when there are but few willing claimants, and that once it is taken by force, continuing strife ensues until one can claim and hold the throne who does not truly wish to rule. For a more specific and character-driven take on continuous revolt in Cormyr, I point all to Elminster's Daughter.

Tunland is an area that falls into something I refer to as "Greater Cormyr"; also included in these lands are the Farsea Marshes, Stonelands, and Goblin Marches. Basically, while Cormyr does not rule these lands directly, and the people (or creatures) living there do not consider themselves part of Cormyr, the larger world views these regions as entirely Cormyr's problem, to settle, deal with, or ignore at their own peril.

As for Sunset Vale, the pioneer mindset prevalent in the Western Heartlands prevents anyone from really blaming Cormyr for anything which happens there. I know that Alusair (and before her, Azoun IV) keeps close watch on the growth of Zhentarim in Darkhold, and has various scenarios should an invasion ever be necessary, but the history of the region doesn't much lend itself to blaming nations for the decisions the people there make. These people set out on their own, not under Crown warrant, to decide to make a new home, passing through a quasi-territorial region that only sort of belonged to Cormyr in order to settle an area that was truly frontier--and which, by the way, Cormyr had right to claim (along with vast stretches of other lands) following their war with the Valashar a thousand years ago; if they wanted Sunset Vale, they'd have claimed and settled it. More importantly, though, with Zhentarim raids and the neccesities of daily life, people simply don't have time to blame far-off countries whose borders they can't even see and with whom they've had no real ties for centuries.

Just my take on things...
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Lashan
Learned Scribe

USA
235 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2004 :  17:18:17  Show Profile  Visit Lashan's Homepage Send Lashan a Private Message
For those that left Cormyr and travelled west to the Sunset Vale, it is quite possible that they did so without royal charter and instructions to settle the lands in the name of the crown. These cormyeans could be known as ex-cormyeans (or is it cormytes?). Perhaps these folk were brave and adventurous or perhaps they even balk at the royal thrown bearing down on them for this thing and that thing. Perhaps those that left were those that wanted to leave Cormyr. If that is the case, I doubt that they would go run and cry to the Purple Dragons to defend them.

Just a thought.
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Baalster
Seeker

19 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2004 :  12:24:33  Show Profile  Visit Baalster's Homepage Send Baalster a Private Message
Friends,

I just made it through 43 pages of the most amazing reading I've ever got for free. I just discovered this thread, and I am very impressed over the depths of the answers Mr Greenwood and the others are providing, in fact words cannot describe the joy of seing all this; the lore, the stories and the experiences that made, and continue to make, the Realms we love so much. My deepest thanks to Ed Greenwood and the creators, and to The Hooded Lady for bringing us this insight, directly from the truest of all sources.

My small corner of the Realms, is Whitehorn. Located between Border Forest and Zhentil Keep, just north of Daggerdale. Preciously little is known of this frontier. A month ago, all information I had available was in Ed's column from Polyhedron #81, describing Whitehorn somewhat. Since then, I updated my Interactive Forgotten Realms Atlas with update 3, and found some stunning new locations, that spawned off new searches into the Realmslore.

The mountains north of Whitehorn is called White Peaks. It is the home of a) Myth Ondath, a destroyed mytral (Cormanthyr). b) Forharn, a gnome city worshipping Flandal (Demihuman Deities)

On to my questions.
1. Is there a reason why the Zhentarim doesn't take the shortest route to the Border Forest ? The Citadel of the Raven has two exists. East across the mountains and north towards The Ride. The Zhentarim lumber operation, which also works towards their master plan to carve through Border Forest, uses the southern route and the river Tesh to transport the lumber. What lurks in between that makes them go around?

2. Could you give us some insight on the northern Border Forest the area towards the desert just north of it ? Wouldn't it be easier for the Zhentarim to just go around Border Forest ?

3. Is there any Realmslore on the underdark city of Glanderultok. I accidently bumped into it while reading Drizzt's Guide to the Underdark. All I know is just the name and the location frmo the map. http://whitehorn.stene.com/wh_underdark.jpg

4. What is the name of the mountain peak just west of the Citadel of the Raven ? Any stories on that you can share ?

5. Any information forthcoming about the barbarian tribes of The Ride ? I have found preciously little.

Anything that you can reveal on Whitehorn and White Peaks would be greatly appreciated. With what a sizeable stack of TSR/WotC books and magazines can't tell me, I find it comfortable to see that you answer questions about your creation so easily, even after so many years. For that you have my thanks once again.

Baalster
Oslo, Norway

The North is indeed as they say in the Vilhon Reach - a land of "hard, brutal men in leather and furs who swing overhasty swords."
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1253 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2004 :  14:44:58  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message
On to my questions.
<<< 1. Is there a reason why the Zhentarim doesn't take the shortest route to the Border Forest ? The Citadel of the Raven has two exists. East across the mountains and north towards The Ride. The Zhentarim lumber operation, which also works towards their master plan to carve through Border Forest, uses the southern route and the river Tesh to transport the lumber. What lurks in between that makes them go around? >>>

Interesting question. I don't think we know yet, but one might guess there are buried legacies of Rystall Wood (see history section in Cormanthyr).

<<< 2. Could you give us some insight on the northern Border Forest the area towards the desert just north of it ? >>>

You can find more on Myth Ondath in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical in the write-up of the Gatekeeper's Crystal. Note the the Ice-Queen mentioned there-in was written up for the Epic Level Handbook.

<<< Wouldn't it be easier for the Zhentarim to just go around Border Forest ? >>>

Again, interesting question.

<<< 3. Is there any Realmslore on the underdark city of Glanderultok. I accidently bumped into it while reading Drizzt's Guide to the Underdark. All I know is just the name and the location frmo the map. http://whitehorn.stene.com/wh_underdark.jpg >>>

I think I put some info on it in Demihuman Deities in the major centers of worship for Abbathor, but I could be confused.

<<< 4. What is the name of the mountain peak just west of the Citadel of the Raven ? Any stories on that you can share ? >>>

Blanking. If there is a name, I probably put it in the FR Atlas patch #3. (I gave Linda Kekumu every obscure Realms location I could find ... and there were hundreds if not thousands ... which she added to that patch. I think I drove her nuts.)

<<< 5. Any information forthcoming about the barbarian tribes of The Ride ? I have found preciously little. >>>

See Ruins of Zhentil Keep for some. That in turn also refers to the Knights of the North, which were briefly mentioned in the old gray boxed set.

Also, I tied their history to the Rengarth barbarians of the Netheril boxed set in Races of Faerun. (OK, I tied them to the Angardt in RoF, but that was a mistake on my part, which will be fixed in a brief mention in an upcoming product.)

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1253 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2004 :  14:47:56  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message
A few more thoughts.

Hybsils (first mentioned in RoZK and used in the Snowmantle adventure found there-in and updated to 3e in Monsters of Faerun, I believe) probably roam the Border Forest in small tribes. They would be one of the threats/dangers to ZK caravans.

Gnolls from Frozen Flindyke are also probably a big threat up there. Remember, these are the same flind-led gnolls whose shamans destroyed Northkeep and who may have been the shock troops of the Weeping War, so they are probably a big danger.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Gerath Hoan
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
152 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2004 :  15:41:54  Show Profile Send Gerath Hoan a Private Message
Hey again... Garen Thal, i guess with the absence of Ed that this one's for you...

I read the Cormyr novel some years ago now and i can't remember who the major priests were who all held some positions of importance at court... there seemed to be a select group who had ceremonial positions and the ear of the king... I specificially remember the high priest of Malar being among them... what's up with that?

And can someone remind me what happened in the end as to Tanalasta wanting a state church of Chauntea? Cheers.

Whilst on the topic of the court, any good references to learn more about Laspeera? I've read the Cormyr trilogy, Elminster's Daughter and the old 2nd Ed acessories of Cormyr and Volo's Guide to the same. Is that all that's been published on her so far? Any guess as to what her current age must be?

P.S. I'd reread the novels myself, just for the pleasure of it if nothing else, but they were "borrowed" by a friend of mine and never returned.

Knight of the Order of the Keen Eye - Granted by Ed Greenwood, 30th January 2005

Edited by - Gerath Hoan on 01 Jul 2004 17:10:36
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2004 :  17:14:12  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message
Gerath Hoan, the presence of the cleric of Malar among the priests who attend Azoun in Cormyr: A Novel is probably best explained by Ed, but my guess is that Malar is one of the few dark gods whose presence is tolerated in Cormyr. Since the nobility set trends, and nobles like to hunt, and Malar is god of the hunt (among his other portfolio elements), he'd have a following in Cormyr, however small, that goes beyond the typical appeasement of deities like Beshaba and Umberlee.

In the end, the idea of a Royal Church of Chauntea failed, owing to the King's opposition to the establishment of any royal church whatsoever. Tanalasta's worship, however, did increase lip service to the Earthmother among the nobles quite a bit.

By "Larissa," I can only gather you mean Laspeera. There isn't a whole lot out there on her, though I believe some information on the lovely, cultured mage (we cannot call her "sorceress" any longer) appears in the novel Stormlight. Though I would never presume to guess a lady's age--particularly not one as powerful as she--I would, if pressed, place Laspeera's age somewhere between 46 and 55, giving her enough range to be significantly older than Alusair (at 38), years younger than Filfaeril (swiftly approaching 62) and still leaving her old enough that her age would begin showing (only just, mind you) no matter her beauty and poise.

-G
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Lashan
Learned Scribe

USA
235 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2004 :  17:15:00  Show Profile  Visit Lashan's Homepage Send Lashan a Private Message
I would also love any info on the peoples of the Ride.
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