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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Aug 2004 : 18:13:35
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Yeah! Garen's the best! Hooray for Garen!! Let's all send him all our money... 
Ed was indeed quite amusing throughout the convention, passing a colorful message along to the Rules Council (which I thought didn't exist anymore...) with regards to his Spin a Yarn, making wonderful pantomimes when a wand of wonder and rod of lordly might were added to the story, and licking any woman that came within his area of effect. Remember ladies, although Ed's a Medium humanoid, he does have reach. 
More seriously, it was great fun to spend time talking Realms with the Old Sage of the Greenwood, and any of you who attend GenCon Indy 2005--which WotC will be treating as ManshoonCon, according to Chris Perkins--should make it a point to sit in on at least one of Ed's events, and hope he has a few minutes afterwards (far more likely on Thursday or Friday than on Sunday) to engage in a lovely "sewing circle" of Realmslore. They were by far the highlight of my experience, followed a close second by far too many compliments, and a slightly farther third by spotting one of the Lady of the Hood's spies.
Now if only I could get hold of a certain tape I've been told of... |
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Sir Elton
Acolyte
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2004 : 19:37:24
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I sent two realms characters to Alaundo to post on Candlekeep. I wonder if Ed would take a look at them and tell me if there is a novel seed in them. They are an orc and a human that have practically grew up as brothers, so they adventure as brothers. 
Edit: as always, it will take two weeks before they are posted. So, it shouldn't be a problem. |
Who needs me to have a sig? |
Edited by - Sir Elton on 28 Aug 2004 19:40:11 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2004 : 20:05:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Elton
I sent two realms characters to Alaundo to post on Candlekeep. I wonder if Ed would take a look at them and tell me if there is a novel seed in them. They are an orc and a human that have practically grew up as brothers, so they adventure as brothers.
Edit: as always, it will take two weeks before they are posted. So, it shouldn't be a problem.
He might not... Not only is his internet connection not the greatest, but authors have to be exceedingly careful about looking at the other people's work. It's not that they're unwilling, it's that doing so opens them up for potential lawsuits later -- "This character in this book is exactly like the one I thought up and let him read a while back! He stole my idea!"
I''m not saying you'd do that; I'm offering a possibility to show you why your request may not be honored. I've heard more than one author on this forum say they avoid reading fans' work for reasons like that.
You'd be better off to wait until your stuff is posted in the next update, then creating a scroll that links to those characters, and asking the rest of us what we think. So far as I know, Big Al won't mind anyone doing something like that. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Moonharp
Acolyte
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2004 : 20:28:44
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| Thanks to The Hooded One on the reply... it seems that writers are not free as they should or would like to be... a pity, for I am sure Ed could spin even better yarn if left unchecked... |
Moonharp the Marvelous |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2004 : 21:00:53
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The thing is, 'external' stuff in fiction isn't really external: it's part of the imaginative envelope of the story, its substance is imagination, and it's symbolic as well as (within the story) literal. Ursula le Guin has an excellent essay in The Language of the Night about how on one level the Fellowship of the Ring are individual characters and on another they're parts of a composite psyche. These levels can interact fruitfully, they can clash, and some authors actually don't understand how their characters work symbolically and so load too much into psychological internal monologues. 'Semi-omniscient third person' is greatly overused at the moment: often the writer includes the internal stuff out of a sense of obligation (they think it's the norm, or it's sophisticated) or because she can't write finely enough to get the character across without resorting to telling us what she's feeling.
The Realms is, let's remember, sword and sorcery, not mimetic literature. The popularity of Drizzt relies on Bob's hybridizing the two and creating a protagonist who's both a hero and a modern self-aware psychological individual. But most often the Realms is better suited to multiple distinctive protagonists (an adventuring company) whose actions speak for themselves than a lone hero with all the solipsistic and antisocial tendencies of that.
People talk about 'plot and character', but in my experience it's not a practical distinction that writers make; the one is the other.
Sure, I'd rather Ed had a freer hand. American book editors seem to be more often heavy-handed than British ones generally, leading to celebrity authors wanting their books 'unedited' (whatever that means, and usually the worse for it). |
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Moonharp
Acolyte
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2004 : 21:11:49
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quote:
The Realms is, let's remember, sword and sorcery, not mimetic literature. The popularity of Drizzt relies on Bob's hybridizing the two and creating a protagonist who's both a hero and a modern self-aware psychological individual. But most often the Realms is better suited to multiple distinctive protagonists (an adventuring company) whose actions speak for themselves than a lone hero with all the solipsistic and antisocial tendencies of that.
I see what you mean by that, Faraer. In the countless novels that I have read (both fantasy and non-fantasy) the "bad" writers who lack the needed imagination, resort to describing and saying the characters' inermost feelings, instead of letting their actions show their attitudes, thoughts and personnas - just like you have said. Though, with the market so expanding and such a demand for books, I would guess its hard to weed out the ungainly writers, especially when many are published just to meet the demand for novels. Also, the people now are less demanding in terms of quality, as when they do not like a book, they just switch to another writer... those are my thoughts at least. Certainly, there are excellent writers out there, but they do not have to work as hard as they used to before, to become popular or sell. Still, I think Ed is an excellent writer in all ways...
 Hope this did not come too off-topic. If it did, forgiveness is asked. |
Moonharp the Marvelous |
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Sir Elton
Acolyte
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2004 : 01:58:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Elton
I sent two realms characters to Alaundo to post on Candlekeep. I wonder if Ed would take a look at them and tell me if there is a novel seed in them. They are an orc and a human that have practically grew up as brothers, so they adventure as brothers.
Edit: as always, it will take two weeks before they are posted. So, it shouldn't be a problem.
He might not... Not only is his internet connection not the greatest, but authors have to be exceedingly careful about looking at the other people's work. It's not that they're unwilling, it's that doing so opens them up for potential lawsuits later -- "This character in this book is exactly like the one I thought up and let him read a while back! He stole my idea!"
I''m not saying you'd do that; I'm offering a possibility to show you why your request may not be honored. I've heard more than one author on this forum say they avoid reading fans' work for reasons like that.
You'd be better off to wait until your stuff is posted in the next update, then creating a scroll that links to those characters, and asking the rest of us what we think. So far as I know, Big Al won't mind anyone doing something like that.
Actually, I've forgotten about that. Thanks for the heads up. Sometimes I get excited I forget the fact of what I'm asking about :( A scroll, eh? I'm been thinking about filling one about their childhoods.
But no doubt about it. |
Who needs me to have a sig? |
Edited by - Sir Elton on 29 Aug 2004 02:01:21 |
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The Blue Sorceress
Learned Scribe
107 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2004 : 05:08:55
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quote:
To The Blue Sorceress and Kajehase: many but by no means all Ilmatari practise celibacy. It’s a matter of avoiding distractions over one’s personal pain and suffering, not anything the church or the deity regard as “exalted.” A technique rather than doctrine, if you will, but by no means frowned upon by the church. Like hair shirts, flagellation, stuffing undergarments with nettles, and so on: accepted means to the greater goal. Marriage isn’t prohibited, and there are numerous instances of committed partners serving together in the priesthood or in lay worship, dealing loving pain to each other (S& M devotees take note).
Thank you to both the Hooded One and Mr. Greenwood for replying to my rather esoteric question.
*Heaps praise upon both*
-Blue |
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
I see your walrus and raise you a carpenter |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2004 : 10:05:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
'Semi-omniscient third person' is greatly overused at the moment: often the writer includes the internal stuff out of a sense of obligation (they think it's the norm, or it's sophisticated) or because she can't write finely enough to get the character across without resorting to telling us what she's feeling.
I'm curious, and feel free to label me clueless for asking what may be obvious or common knowledge: what is "semi-omniscient third person" and what differentiates it from "limited third person"? |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2004 : 15:35:39
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| Same ting. |
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Finglas Leaflock
Acolyte
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2004 : 16:20:12
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I have a question about the times of moonrise and moonset. Does Selune rise and set at the same time each night, or is it more like in our world, where the times change constantly? Many clerics, especially of the Seldarine deities, pray for their spells at certain times that depend on the moon, so it could make a difference in a campaign.
Thank you, both Ed and The Hooded One, for anwering all these questions and making this great thread possible! |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2004 : 17:26:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
'Semi-omniscient third person' is greatly overused at the moment: often the writer includes the internal stuff out of a sense of obligation (they think it's the norm, or it's sophisticated) or because she can't write finely enough to get the character across without resorting to telling us what she's feeling.
I'm curious, and feel free to label me clueless for asking what may be obvious or common knowledge: what is "semi-omniscient third person" and what differentiates it from "limited third person"?
LTP (limited third person): The story comes from one Point of View character at a time, and we only get to learn the story from that character's vantage point. Only what's observable and understood by the character is what's related as the story. We don't always know why others do things in the story, because our POV character doesn't know.
SOTP (semi-omniscient third person): As above, but there are times when things that might not be in a character's ability to know are slipped into the story to flesh it out or for greater reader understanding. This could be anything from cut-away scenes from another POV that drop in more info or they could be slips like having our orc POV character suddenly understand human psychology and almost be able to mind-read the villain's intentions and actions.
Other authors are free to amend these comments, as this is off the top of this author's/teacher's head without any coffee yet this a.m.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2004 : 18:01:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
'Semi-omniscient third person' is greatly overused at the moment: often the writer includes the internal stuff out of a sense of obligation (they think it's the norm, or it's sophisticated) or because she can't write finely enough to get the character across without resorting to telling us what she's feeling.
I'm curious, and feel free to label me clueless for asking what may be obvious or common knowledge: what is "semi-omniscient third person" and what differentiates it from "limited third person"?
LTP (limited third person): The story comes from one Point of View character at a time, and we only get to learn the story from that character's vantage point. Only what's observable and understood by the character is what's related as the story. We don't always know why others do things in the story, because our POV character doesn't know.
SOTP (semi-omniscient third person): As above, but there are times when things that might not be in a character's ability to know are slipped into the story to flesh it out or for greater reader understanding. This could be anything from cut-away scenes from another POV that drop in more info or they could be slips like having our orc POV character suddenly understand human psychology and almost be able to mind-read the villain's intentions and actions.
Other authors are free to amend these comments, as this is off the top of this author's/teacher's head without any coffee yet this a.m.
Steven
That is a great answer, thanks for informing us about it. This keeps me from digging up old English books. And on a side note some of us enjoy this point of view.
Bakra Lord of the Outlying Thread |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2004 : 18:08:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Finglas Leaflock
I have a question about the times of moonrise and moonset. Does Selune rise and set at the same time each night, or is it more like in our world, where the times change constantly? Many clerics, especially of the Seldarine deities, pray for their spells at certain times that depend on the moon, so it could make a difference in a campaign.
Thank you, both Ed and The Hooded One, for anwering all these questions and making this great thread possible!
I think it is safe for me to venture with an answer on this....the time would vary just like ours...barring any supernatural influences...but that is just my opinion.
Bakra |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2004 : 03:44:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
LTP (limited third person): The story comes from one Point of View character at a time, and we only get to learn the story from that character's vantage point. Only what's observable and understood by the character is what's related as the story. We don't always know why others do things in the story, because our POV character doesn't know.
SOTP (semi-omniscient third person): As above, but there are times when things that might not be in a character's ability to know are slipped into the story to flesh it out or for greater reader understanding. This could be anything from cut-away scenes from another POV that drop in more info or they could be slips like having our orc POV character suddenly understand human psychology and almost be able to mind-read the villain's intentions and actions.
Other authors are free to amend these comments, as this is off the top of this author's/teacher's head without any coffee yet this a.m.
Steven
Thank you for taking the time to explain. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2004 : 05:22:23
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A question for THO:
What was it like adventuring with a Chosen of Mystra? As Dove is Florin's wife (and a NPC run by Ed) did she join in many of your adventures or was she always 'away' (on Evermeet raising Azalar, helping out her sisters, etc.)? When she did adventure with the KoMD, did she use her "superhero Chosen powers"? Just curious ...
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2004 : 14:49:31
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| OK, almost same ting. And it's fine, it's just way overused. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2004 : 01:40:47
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Hi Ed and THO,
Qstor over on the WOTC boards asked about Trenahes. He says it is on the old FR interactive CD and that it is a place that resides on the trail that runs north from Misteldale to Shadowdale along the river.
I looked through the Volo's Guide to the Dalelands, the FRCS, and the Dalelands sourcebook and didn't see any thing about this place. Can either of you help shed some light on this place? |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 01 Sep 2004 01:42:31 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2004 : 16:17:04
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Well met again, fellow scribes.
Lorelord George, you pose a superb question, probing as it does at the awkward aspects of power imbalances in play.
Herewith, my attempt at a reply: Dove’s true status and identity wasn’t known to any of us at first, of course, after Florin rescued her from cruel straits in which she was playing a part in order to learn some things from her captors (men similarly unaware of her true powers, name, and lineage).
Intrigued by the hero who’d rescued her, she did what any wary, experienced, hardly-daring-to-hope woman would do: she subtly tested him for months, to make sure he didn’t have overly large feet of clay beneath his hero’s boots.
It was some time thereafter, long after she dared to trust him and their romance had begun, that we learned her true status (she’d obviously come to some agreement with her sisters and El not to spill the beans to us). Dove dislikes using magic or calling on the Weave often, preferring to use her wits and her sword in most dealings, and this contributed to concealing her true nature for some time.
She made her inherent independence clear from the very beginning, hinting that she was much older than she looked “thanks to magic” (we assumed potions of longevity, of course), and revealing that she did much Harper work and other covert things for the good of the Dales and Cormyr and law-abiding, peace-loving folk everywhere – work that kept her busy off on her own for days and even months at a time.
Florin accepted that, so all of the rest of us did, too. Torm tried to follow and spy on her once, and ended up neatly stymied (she knew of his skulking, and with gentle amusement led him astray).
She seldom “went adventuring” with us, although on at least two occasions she showed up to save our butts when we ended up ‘in over our heads.’ Our assault on the altar-gates of Myth Drannor was one notable exception, and she also stood with us in one defense of Shadowdale against Zhent armies, hewing her way through most of a flanking force ON HER OWN. So, yes, Dove was largely absent (“busy elsewhere”), and with rare exceptions (such as Weave-healing PCs at the death’s door), never called on her Chosen-super-powers. She and Storm of the Seven prefer not to use magic often in their daily lives (and she moreso than Storm). I might add that Ed is a masterful actor and has forged a roleplaying “style” for the Knights sessions that makes game rules almost superfluous and matters of power far less important than ‘becoming’ one’s character and dealing with the Realms around in that manner. (The “football-quarterback” situation of planning party combats, for instance, almost never arises in our play sessions – so neither do discussions of “Can’t Dove just do this, as a Chosen, and then we’ll . . .”)
I hope that helps to answer your question. I’m off on an assignment for a few days, now, so don’t let my e-silence alarm you. The nature of my work means I’m not always free to just grab a handy Net access and surf, answer e-mails, and so on.
Blades high for now!
THO
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2004 : 16:45:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
I’m off on an assignment for a few days, now, so don’t let my e-silence alarm you. The nature of my work means I’m not always free to just grab a handy Net access and surf, answer e-mails, and so on.
Blades high for now!
THO
Modeling cloaks on Waterdhavian rooftops? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2004 : 18:47:09
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Alas, no. I'll just have to content myself with modelling nether piercings on Waterdhavian high streets at highsun.
As ever,
YOUR
THO |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2004 : 19:18:27
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Alas, no. I'll just have to content myself with modelling nether piercings on Waterdhavian high streets at highsun.
As ever,
YOUR
THO
Ooohh...
I knew there was a reason I loved Waterdeep! I shall have to have a front row seat for this show.
I wish I knew enough Realms-slang to express myself properly, here. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2004 : 09:05:24
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Ah thank you muchly, most beauteous Hooded Oone.
Of course, you've now got my head in a spin to see (and experience?) a gaming session run by Ed. I'm not sure I'd be too good at joining in, but I'd sure love to be a fly on the wall ... thanks again.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Bruce Donohue
Learned Scribe
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2004 : 14:31:53
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George, from someone who has done it on more than one occasion, I am sure you would find it to be a memorable experience, secondly I am sure that you would do just fine.
A question I would like to ask Ed, what is the hierarchal titles for the monks in Candlekeep?
Greeting THO, how are you radiant one, hope that all is well with you. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2004 : 15:29:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Donohue
George, from someone who has done it on more than one occasion, I am sure you would find it to be a memorable experience, secondly I am sure that you would do just fine.
A question I would like to ask Ed, what is the hierarchal titles for the monks in Candlekeep?
Greeting THO, how are you radiant one, hope that all is well with you.
Well met
Ed's scroll of the Introduction to Candlekeep may be of particular interest to ye, Bruce. (Simply visit the link at the top of the home page). |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2004 : 13:49:34
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Heya,
I've resisted the urge to post these questions, and unfortunately they just won't leave me alone... So here goes, all regarding my pet topics of Women's and LesBiGay issues (with a question about Polyamory too!)... (The reason this has all come up for me now is a rather long story... *sigh*)
If people of the Heartlands of the Realms are "enlightened and liberal regarding gender roles," how come we aren't shown this more often in novels and source materials?
How come every second strong woman has to be (it seems) paired up with a male of equal calibre? (Hmmm... I don't think that came out the right way... oh well) How is it that so many "young women" end up with "old fat hairy men"? I'm not making any accusations here, or pulling out any specific examples... But it would be nice if, for once, a female character I happened to like/enjoy wasn't paired off in such a way as to make me go "Oh WHAT?!" (I'm not saying you (or other writers) in the Realms shouldn't do it, I'm just trying to point out a pattern that I have noticed.)
I understand that homosexuality is fairly well accepted by the people of the Realms (Ed answered a question for me on the Realms-L list regarding this a long time ago, but now I'm needing more clarification)... Are there places where it's not accepted? Is there any non-religious based prejudice that exists against it? Is there any religious based prejudice that exists against it? Are there any races that don't accept it at all? (Personally I'd like the "there are no places where it's not accepted, there is no prejudice at all about it at all, everyone accepts it as normal" answer - but the pesemistic realist in me thinks this can't possibly be the case.  )
Exactly how common is polyamory?
I understand if you can't answer this next question due to WotC and Hasbro policy - Are there any major NPCs of ambiguous sexuality? (ie: gay/bi/lesbian) I know that in the FRCS, Vaerana Hawklyn (the woman in charge of Law Enforcement in Elversult) is described as Yanseldara's "consort"... No clarification of this term was ever given when queried on the Realms-L list (some people contended, at the time, that the word consort can be equated to the word cohort, and therefore no deeper relationship than that exists between them),I think it was Sean Reynolds who said "read it as you will" at the time... I find this kind of dance around definitions to be singularly unhelpful, especially concidering the term consort has been used elsewhere in the Realms to describe, generally, married couples or those in commited (or even semi-commited) relationships. However, Yanseldara and her may-or-may-not-be lover Vaerana are not what I would describe as "major" NPCs.
I personally would love to see characters in the Realms that I can personally relate to, and I keep coming up short.  This is a shame, since I have truely grown to love the Forgotten Realms, but I keep being disappointed (mostly by novels).
And on a different note... Is there anything you can tell us about Caladnei of Cormyr? And will Laeral of Loudwater (who appeared in a flashback in Elminster in Hell) ever make a reappearance? |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
Edited by - Zandilar on 03 Sep 2004 13:53:38 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2004 : 14:17:20
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| Wow Zandilar! almost sounds like you're writing a thesis or other academic work on the subject!! are you a reporter in disguise trying to lure clumsy answers out of us unassuming geeks? |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2004 : 17:06:56
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| In response to Zandilar's queries: I've never thought about these things myself, but after having read what you have to say I'll add my humble voice to those wishing to hear some fraction of an answer to them. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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RevJest
Learned Scribe
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2004 : 17:43:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar
Exactly how common is polyamory?
It certainly seems to be common amongst the Chosen of Mystra! *grin*
quote:
I understand if you can't answer this next question due to WotC and Hasbro policy - Are there any major NPCs of ambiguous sexuality? (ie: gay/bi/lesbian) I know that in the FRCS, Vaerana Hawklyn (the woman in charge of Law Enforcement in Elversult) is described as Yanseldara's "consort"... No clarification of this term was ever given when queried on the Realms-L list
Your questions are interesting to me personally, because I was just thinking the other day how far things have come in terms of what Ed is allowed to get away with when writing a book. He can sneak in innuendo and discuss relationships in a way he never could years ago when I first read Spellfire. I hope the boundries of how much real life he can inject in to a book continue to expand. I'd love to see a clearly lesbian character, or hell even an interesting clearly gay male character would be fine with me. Unfortunately I don't believe my attitudes are shared by the majority of people out there. Yet. And so I doubt we'll be seeing those sorts of characters for some time.
Your message wasn't directed to me. But I just thought it was interesting and decided to comment. Hope you don't mind. :)
- S
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"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Karth
Seeker
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2004 : 21:59:15
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Zandilar,
Like simontrinity, I felt compelled to comment. Hope I'm not unduly intruding. I do have at least one direct and authoritative reference to quote though, so hearken:
I must preface this by declaiming that I obviously speak with absolutely zero canon authority and may thus be wasting your time by writing. *I* always ran Yanseldara and Vaerana as a committed homosexual couple, though I realize that doesn't help you much. I suspect that you are looking for “official and open acknowledgement” of characters that reflect your own identity. If I recall, Ed has pretty clearly indicated somewhere on this thread that Alustriel, in her persona as “Queen of Courtly Love”, is free with her affections to both sexes. I would be hard-pressed to surrender the direct reference, though. What I *do* have for you is this: one of Alustriel’s apprentices has been described here by Ed as being in openly in love with her. So sayeth Ed:
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Zelauma Telthornstars: CG half-e f W9, a free-spirited, always-laughing imp of a bouncy lass with large, liquid blue-green eyes, lush figure and features. She sees the safety and beauty of Silverymoon as a cradle of mirth and ‘human nature’ amusement, and intrigues as fascinating entertainments. The most recent of Alustriel’s apprentices, Zelauma was orphaned when a disease carried off her mother (orc blades had reaped her human father years before), and found her own way overland from their wilderland steading to the only place she knew of that had an abundance of food, warmth, and folk: Silverymoon. There she indulged her love of climbing things to scale buildings and peer in windows, watching Silvaeren private life and considering it one great passing parade of entertainment. Sleeping on rooftops and occasionally hiring herself out as a roof-tile replacer and painter (thanks to her fearless and nimble climbing skills), Zelauma was noticed by a Spellguard mage long before her coins ran out and she’d have been forced to either steal or starve.
Thinking her a thief but not wanting to blast her without proof, the mage reported Zelauma to Taern -- and Alustriel happened to arrive, overhear, and take an interest. Finding Zelauma watching revel through a window from atop an ornamental spire some seventy feet above the street, the High Lady greeted her cordially, they talked, and a few minutes later descended magically together, with Zelauma now Alustriel’s apprentice.
She’s still an impish (but gentle, not cruel) prankster, and loves to climb (especially when restless or upset), but she’s also rapidly becoming a mage of skill, and (to put it bluntly) is hopelessly in love with Alustriel. She’s aware that she’s third in rank among the High Lady’s apprentices and quite content to remain so -- but fully intends, decades from now, to still be serving Alustriel when everyone else has departed or turned away.
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Ed has also been very free with describing characters in homosexual masquerade or as transvestites of various kinds, though I fully realize that is completely different from “LesBiGay” characters. The most prominent example is the original Lhaeo, of course; who masqueraded as El’s live-in scribe lover for many years. This gave us the term “man-lover” which, based on Ed’s usage in Spellfire, I’ve always interpreted as derogatory and equivalent to “fag”. I generally use it when appropriate to indicate an intolerant, ignorant or otherwise insensitive NPC to my players. The immediate assumption by my well-trained players (LOL) is that the person using the term is a “bad guy” and much surveillance and other prying into that NPC’s affairs generally commences, in an effort to find out where else he is “dirty”. The current Lhaeo is another obvious variation on the theme, being a young woman magically disguised as a rumored gay man who was actually straight. Hello, Blake Edwards! Yikes!
I run a game with many elven PCs. This is not official, but as a conflict mechanism I also use the term “doghead": a derogatory term used by racist (generally evil or profoundly influenced by evil) humans, especially in the Moonsea area, to describe all the demi-human races with pointed or semi-pointed ears; especially elves, half-elves, gnomes and halflings. In official canon, we have prejudice in the form of the Victorious Blade of the People, though neither of those examples are sexuality-oriented.
In Waterdeep, Ed has put the characters of Shalar Simgulphin and Coril: both female Harper agents that cross-dress as men.
I realize all this is probably very thin and unsatisfying indeed, from your point of view. I too would like to hear Ed’s recounting of whatever major characters he sees as embracing different "lifestyles" or sexual identities. Being a hetero American male myself, I am quite predictably more intrigued by tales of women together. That is why I fastened myself barnacle-fashion to the intriguing references involving Yanseldara and Vaerana, and played them up prominently to my players, who are also all hetero males. ;)
The hinted-at gay men merely get noted for the potential embarrassment potential to my players in encountering them. Sure is fun making my players squirm…
I think that expecting any kind of definitive position or open acknowledgement from Hasbro is still unrealistic right now. They will almost certainly keep playing “don’t ask, don’t tell” with all major characters for quite awhile longer. I suspect that Ed can speak more freely about it though, here in Candlekeep. I also suspect that the Hooded One might be able to speak even more freely than Ed on the subject.
What do you say, Hooded One? Now you've got at least three scribes wanting to know. Feel free to answer *without* shooing away the fetching young lady who may or may not be currently occupying your lap… ;)
-Karth
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2004)
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