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Sarelle
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
508 Posts

Posted - 13 May 2004 :  12:33:46  Show Profile  Visit Sarelle's Homepage  Click to see Sarelle's MSN Messenger address Send Sarelle a Private Message
Mr. Greenwood,

Just out of interest, how well do you know the various FR computer games? And what NPC/Henchman from any of them, did you like the most, if you know them well enough to say?

My personal favourite was definitely Aerie.

Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)

My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller)
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 13 May 2004 :  19:54:52  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31

Good Gods,

Ed out did himself on Elminster's Daugther. So many things unanswered and so many surprises!



Agreed, to anyone reading in the forum, I highly recommend this novel especially if you are a DM or game in Cormyr.

Cormyr's future in about 15/20 gaming years is going to veddy interesting with Azoun V and well.....someone else to come.
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 13 May 2004 :  22:25:32  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Agreed, to anyone reading in the forum, I highly recommend this novel especially if you are a DM or game in Cormyr.

Cormyr's future in about 15/20 gaming years is going to veddy interesting with Azoun V and well.....someone else to come.



Yup, yup! I've been pondering the repercussions and the new realms lore in that novel since early last night when I finished it. Bad Ed, bad! Leaving the last two pages or so to drop a BIG bombshell! :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

My Goodreads page: http://www.goodreads.com/kuje

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe

Canada
592 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2004 :  00:41:35  Show Profile  Click to see Foxhelm's MSN Messenger address  Send Foxhelm a Yahoo! Message Send Foxhelm a Private Message
I have a few question on Planar mechanics.

Are there living people on the planes? Like a version of Planescape? With cities and towns on the planes around portals?

Also are there more planetouched living in larger numbers on the planes? Do they make up a greater number there?

What kind of people would live on the plane?

Just curious. Thanks.


Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems!
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Metis
Acolyte

11 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2004 :  05:00:57  Show Profile  Visit Metis's Homepage Send Metis a Private Message
Greetings once again,

The campaign inspired and full of tidbits provided by Ed I've been running for the last several sessions has left the players clueless to their surroundings and among the ruins of the Wizard's Reach.

I was wondering if Ed would be able to provide any information on the history (recent and ancient) of that region. Any other tidbits about smaller communities or things of that sort would also be welcome, of course.

Hope to hear from you soon, thanks!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2004 :  05:42:48  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Well met from The Hooded One. I was able to e-speak Ed for just a few minutes today (he’s juggling family visits, trying to get the Waterdeep book finished, and the time-wasting but necessary side of writing (faxes, legal documents, permissions, e-consults, et al), and managed to get this answer for Sarelle:

Unfortunately, I’m not familiar with the later games at all. I’ve provided lore (and in some cases even fiction “frontpieces” for the game manual) for most of the Realms games, and even been consulted on plotlines of a few of them, but I have zilch time to play computer games, and tend to write on various vintage Macs; when I can view a Realms games at all, it’s usually any early build with all “cheats” turned on so I can’t be killed, so as to walk through and examine everything in the shortest possible time. So what gets most slighted in such situations? You guessed it: henchmen. :}
As a result, my experiences are so limited as to make my opinion worthless. Aerie, eh? I’ll have to go look, if I ever get my life back. :}

So saith Ed. I sympathize, also having no time for computer gaming. (Leisure time? What’s that?)
THO
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2004 :  08:06:41  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message
Less a question for Ed, Our Lady O' the Hood, and more of a statement (or warning, if you like), for the Sage of the Greenwood:

You and I, good friend (and any of you that consider Ed anything more or less than a good friend, whether you've met him or no, have missed the point, methinks) have much to speak about as regards the Forest Kingdom. And not just the arrangement of royal wedlock, if you catch my meaning. Should I not be able to bend your ear for a bit before then, rest assured I will be one of the many hunting for five (five, he said... HA!) minutes of your time and the Great Conclave formerly of Geneva. Perhaps then I'll have some peace of mind juggling old sticks from Lythtlorn.

Consider thyself warned. Here be dragons. Purple ones.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2004 :  20:04:57  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello, all. Thy Lady Hooded with the latest words of Ed, who is way too busy just now to answer any of the in-depth Realmslore queries he knows are piling up, but wants you to know he very much wants to deal with all of them, ASAP:

Hello, scribes! First to Gareth: glad your mum loves my books, and thank you for introducing her to them. It’s a very slow process, conquering the world one reader’s mind at a time . . . seriously, if I can spread a little enjoyment, that’s great!
Borch, I think fellow scribes have tracked down all the in-print Realmslore about your three queries, so I’ll have to generate more. :}
Ditto, Metis; I’ll get going on tidbits about the Reach.
Dargoth, good point about computer games differing from Realms continuity. My take is always: if a game has several different possible outcomes depending on PC actions, then obviously it can’t establish continuity because Realmslore can’t assume PCs do “X and only X.” Moreover, your point about things that just happen in a computer game and are never mentioned elsewhere is probably the way we have to “read” what is becoming canon and what isn’t, and as I said earlier, I can’t utter any useful and definitive judgement on whether the games are canon or aren’t, only state my assumption. I CAN speak definitively about the Volo’s Guide I wrote. I suppose this debate will always rage. Hmm, sorta like real-life politics. :}
George, thank you. A fluffy Simbul you’ll have, and I, too, am really enjoying sharing with everyone at Candlekeep. It’s like a relaxed party at a cottage, sprawled on chesterfields/sofas/lounges and chatting with friends who love the same things you do. I hope to keep it up for as long as I can (years, if the site and the interest and my heart hold out). And yes, it’s lovely when you and Eric and others (Garen Thal leaps to mind) skillfully weave new Realmslore to help make the whole tapestry brighter, richer, and stronger. A particular satisfaction AND a life-work.
So, Purple Dragon Knight, you want to see Elminster powerless, do you? So do a LOT of folks in the Realms. Me, I’d like to see Storm chopping wood in the nude again alongside a duplicate of her, sweat and curves and all, who just happens to have the merrily bearded visage of Elminster himself. :}
Real hard Realms-style swearing? Okay, Faraer, I’ll get to work on it. Tastefully, of course, as is my wont. :}
Taelohn, please don’t misinterpret my mention of Halaster as meaning he’s a Chosen. I meant to just pick two individual beings in the Realms who possess some mastery of magic in very different ways (Dove ISN’T a powerful mage), and consider that, if one added “being a Chosen” to their very different natures, powers, and characters, one would naturally end up with two very different “magical powers” results. Dargoth, I doubt a table is the way to go with the Chosen of Mystra, because I DO want everyone to be unique and different purely because it’s more interesting and leaves more “fun roleplaying room” to things. I don’t want the Chosen to all be just so many troops with identical special power—and nor do Mystra or Ao, because the whole point of Mystra’s Chosen is to stop Mystra from controlling everyone by scattering her power, AND to prevent anyone else from controlling her through the same means (I also had to have an explanation for how Bane COULD control Mystra during the Time of Troubles). So if they’re all different, working out some grand plan for controlling them all, or Mystra through them, is that much harder.
Proc, I’ll get to work on the Waterdeep Watch stuff. Some snippets of info will be revealed in my Realms of Dragons short story, and in the Waterdeep novel, but you need a handy core of stuff to work with.
To both SiriusBlack and kuje31, glad you liked Elminster’s Daughter! I’m happy with how it turned out, and was really comfortable with the story as it flowed in the telling. I look forward to the chance to tell more stories with the same characters.
Wooops! Must run, now, but rest assured that the Hooded Gentleness is feeding me ALL of the thread converse, and I’m puttering on all sorts of lore replies as a result.

So saith Ed. Hmm, “Hooded Gentleness,” eh? Now THAT’S a stage name I could do something with. Just what, we’ll talk about some other time and place.
THO
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2004 :  10:06:49  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message
If I might interupt your playful innuendo, Lady Hood, I have a request I'd like to send in.

Mr. Greenwood, I've noticed a lot on plants and small-scale animals, but I don't believe I've found anything on insects. The 17-year cicada invasion is just beginning in my backyard, which made me wonder just what sort of insects might inhabit the Realms. Obviously, staples such as ordinary flies, bees, ants, and mosquitos exist; but what about other creepy critters? Are rhino beetles found in the southern Realms? Do ant lions inhabit the areas around Calimshan?

And are there any cicadas that pop out of the ground every few years around Candlekeep? (If so, I hope Alaundo's gardeners have been clearing out all those creepy shells . . . .)

(And yes, I've got a touch of entomophobia. I blame my brother, actually. Especially regarding cicada shells.)

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2004 :  11:44:04  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
I'll be very interested to hear Mr Greenwood's thoughts on this also. With my recent exposure to all things creepy and crawly, I'll admit that I had similar thoughts (in between bouts of worrying about what was crawling up my legs) about the types of insects and such at home in the Realms.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29638 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2004 :  17:27:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm

If I might interupt your playful innuendo, Lady Hood, I have a request I'd like to send in.


Nay! Do not interrupt The Lady Hooded One's playful innuendo! I'm so enjoying it!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2004 :  23:56:12  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello, all. Thy Lady Hooded once more, with brief words of Ed (answering Dargoth from way back on April 17:

I’m not sure exactly what’s going on at Dragonspear Castle right now. The answer to that depends on events in your own Realms campaign. I can say that the portal that wider Faerun heard so much about (see the Hordes of Dragonspear adventure) was destroyed, and most of the devils slain. However, some devils escaped, scattering and temporarily going into hiding all over Faerun. Most of these have been hunted down since, but others (particular some of the most powerful and subtle devils) continue to work mischief, usually by manipulating humans.
Nor was the destroyed portal the only one in the vicinity of the Castle --wherefore some other portals to fell planes ARE still open, and various evil and half-hidden power groups vie for control of them. Again, the specifics are up to individual DMs.

So saith Ed, giving one of his familiar “maximum play opportunities” answers. Of which more very soon.
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2004 :  23:58:10  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Fair meeting once again, scribes! Thy Lady Hooded rides in with another reply from Ed, this time for the April 18th questions posed by Bakra, Lord of the Outlying Thread:


Hi, Bakra. Well, I can tell you that unless editing prunes these lore-mentions away, the forthcoming Serpent Kingdoms product will identify important events that befell during both the ‘Year of the Sighing Serpent’ (1289) and the ‘Year of the Ormserpent’ (1295), giving the usual cryptic hindsight reason behind the two year-names.
“Ormserpent” is a corruption of a “wormserpent,” and this is an old name for a naga. I can add something NOT mentioned in Serpent Kingdoms: that there once was a gigantic, unique reptile called THE Ormserpent (briefly worshipped in its own cult) that legend tells us was able to disgorge, after great agonies, “spawns” of 3-6 living creatures of all manner of other serpentine races (a maximum of 2 creatures out of such a spew being the same sort of creature), and that it would perish if it ever vomited forth another ormserpent. One tale also claims that a clan of very-long-lived, immune-to-all-poisons women of sinister intelligence and purpose, who can shapechange into various snake forms (from small to monstrous), are the “Daughters of the Ormserpent,” spewed out by it, one by one, on rare occasions.
This is old, old Realmslore from my personal scrolls, hitherto hidden even from the keenest scholars of Candlekeep, and it may or may not be more than mere legend.


Whew. Ask and ye shall receive, Bakra! WELL, now . . . Daughters of the Ormserpent, eh? I’ll have to investigate more fully, in our Realmsplay sessions, as to whether or not certain fell females might just be members of this clan. If, of course, it truly exists.
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  00:02:03  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Just managed to snatch a few moments for matters Realmsian, so ’tis time for Thy Hooded Lady to answer a few of the queries put directly to HER (uh, me ) by fellow scribes.

First, from Shadowlord, back on April 18th: “If you could have your PCs visit an outer plane, what would it be?”
Brightwater, of course. Arvandor and the Gates of the Moon when I wanted ‘quiet time,’ but Brightwater would be my first choice. Obvious, I know, but sometimes I am just a BIT bold and forward.

Which leads me to Bakra’s question about Hallowe’en Realmsplay. Yes, we’ve had a few rather creepy “dance with the dead” sessions. Longtime Realms fans may recall Nidus and his Wand of Endless Repetition. Well, we found a huge spell-field cast by that fell mage, over the great hall of a castle. Couples in finery, long since withered away to bones, were dancing (in formal, waltz-like, clasped-together movements) tirelessly as odd bones crumbled away or dropped off . . . and while we were in the hall, we had to keep making saving throws against the magic or repeat precisely our actions of the previous round. It progressed from macabre to truly scary.
We’ve also had Feast of the Moon storytelling sessions (in which we roleplayed villagers recounting hair-raising tales of the dead, and had some ghosts correct them and then ‘wink out’), ghosts whispering to us in dark places, and the dead walking from family crypts, just to mention a few. Ed also described, in grisly detail, a shouting, kicking merchant being literally torn apart by crawling claws as we watched (through scrying magic).

Which leads me to a far more recent request from Athenon/Will, about sharing some of Ed’s best moments as a DM. You’re right, Will, things are rarely boring around our gaming table. It’s not just because of Ed, because we all act out our characters with energy and enthusiasm, but Ed sets the tone.
Let me pluck just a few ‘bright remembrances’ to share:
Ed portraying the manic Halaster (pouncing on and eating imaginary flies and all) baiting the Knights in the depths of Undermountain, in a thoroughly terrifying performance that left us all jumpy for the rest of the evening.
Ed playing the part of an animated warrior’s helm that couldn’t speak (though it could make noises that conveyed its emotional state) and yet was trying its darndest to lure us through a dungeon into the traps it was spell-linked to. Swooping, purring, cajoling, dancing in the air, buzzing menacingly as it swooped at us -- we were in absolute stitches of laughter by the time it finally succeeded in getting one of us to plunge into a pit, went into a victory dance -- and flew straight into its own destruction by celebrating its way right into a metal-shredding spell field.
Ed playing all of the parts in a dramatic secret meeting of a noble conspiracy to overthrow the Obarskyrs, whilst we Knights listened tensely from the far side of a tapestry. Incredibly realistic dialogue, instead of the all-too-frequent “You already know this, Von Villain, but our audience doesn’t, so let me explain it to you again for their benefit” banter. Ed’s particularly good at “overheard dialogue,” and once did a seduction scene that had me squirmingly hot, let me tell you -- although when we burst out of hiding with weapons drawn at the er, moment of climax, it became hilariously obvious that we’d entirely misjudged what we’d been listening to.
Ed impressing the heck out of us with a Mirt-style buffoon performance from a Cormyrean tax collector that fooled us completely -- only to have the tax official ‘step out of his act’ for a moment to enlist our aid in bringing to justice one of the nobles he’d been auditing, after he uncovered crown treason rather than mere gold-piece-pinching. Ed made it obvious that this act is what enabled the tax collector to ferret out so many truths about the nobles he was investigating, on a daily basis.
Ed playing the part of Queen Filfaeril of Cormyr, facing down a Red Wizard envoy who was bold enough to try to coerce permissions out of her at Court, with Azoun absent. Filfaeril was polite, gracious, and very eloquent in her refusals -- and when the mage sought to outthink her, she turned politely steely. When he dared to try to add a little magical persuasion and War Wizards came running, she dealt with the foolish Red Wizard with a regal bluntness, pronouncing cold doom on him in a manner that left us wincingly impressed around the gaming table. If you close your eyes to blot out the smiling bearded giant at the end of the table and just LISTEN, Ed’s voices sound so real.
Ed doing a deliberately hilarious “two pompous wizards spell-dueling” scene at a MageFair in which he declaimed one mage’s lines, then dashed across the room to turn and deliver his rivals’ words, and then ran back to his first location to utter the response, and so on. We were rolling around laughing by the time he was (breathlessly) done.
Ed playing the part of an elder dragon, bargaining with us Knights for its own survival by offering portions of its hoard -- and doing it so well that I am forever scornful of dragons seen in movies and fantasy novels. Ed can make the “I’m older than dirt and sadly wise, but don’t trifle with me, human” viewpoint seem VERY real, where most wise-old-dragons come across as one-dimensional villains or oh-so-jaded feybritches.
Ed portraying a farm wife, pleading with a Zhent for her life, knowing she’s doomed but offering everything, from information about everyone in her village to her own body, to buy time for her children to run away (out the back of her farmhouse). He did it so well that two of us Knights burst out of our nicely-set-up ambush prematurely to slaughter her Zhent tormentor and defend her . . . knowing as we did so that the cost was alerting the main company of Zhents to our presence, and leaving us with a long, hard running fight to survive (because they outnumbered us so greatly).
I could list dozens of other moments, a lot of them more high-stakes dramatic, but enough. Real life beckons rather imperiously, I’m afraid.
Full goblets and fine fare until next,
THO
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RevJest
Learned Scribe

USA
115 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  03:43:22  Show Profile  Visit RevJest's Homepage Send RevJest a Private Message
Lovely Hooded One,

Another question for Ed:

In the book 'Stormlight' it's revealed that Vangerdhast and Elminster had a sort of falling out. And at that point, they weren't on speaking terms. Or at least they weren't meeting socially. Can you tell us what that was all about?

Regards,
Simon Trinity

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  04:15:15  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by simontrinity

Lovely Hooded One,

Another question for Ed:

In the book 'Stormlight' it's revealed that Vangerdhast and Elminster had a sort of falling out. And at that point, they weren't on speaking terms. Or at least they weren't meeting socially. Can you tell us what that was all about?

Regards,
Simon Trinity



Just an FYI in case you didn't know....you get some really good interaction between Vangey and El in Elminster's Daughter.
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RevJest
Learned Scribe

USA
115 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  04:47:07  Show Profile  Visit RevJest's Homepage Send RevJest a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Just an FYI in case you didn't know....you get some really good interaction between Vangey and El in Elminster's Daughter.



I'm bad. I still haven't bought 'Windwalker' yet. I'm so behind on my reading. :)

- S

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  05:25:26  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message
You're not the only one in that predicament. I only just bought Crimson Gold, and I've still not reached the end of the first chapter. Nothing against the story (actually, the style is amazingly familiar! ), just that I've so little time . . . .

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

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Gerath Hoan
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
152 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  15:38:39  Show Profile Send Gerath Hoan a Private Message
Well met Ed, this is my first post here so i'm a little nervous!

I'm a great fan of your work and i've loved reading through these pages and pages of Realmslore to gain a real insight into this fantastically detailed and REAL world you've created. Thank you so much for sharing it with all of us, i've loved playing in your creation, particularly in Arabel, for the last 8 years or so.

Anyway, on to my question... Could you provide us with some additional realmslore on Vangerdahast? I was interested in what he owed his long life to, as he's not a Chosen of Mystra and it seemed to be implied (in 2nd Ed) that he didn't simply resort to magic. Any fun little details you could tell us about the man would be much appreciated though.

Oh, and this question is so minor as to be laughable , but it interests me so i'd like to ask it... In Arabel there's a merchant house by the name of Hiloar... yet in Cormyr (the novel) there's an Earl by the name of Hiloar... does that make them a minor noble house now? How much information can you impart to me about that family?

Thanks again, i love that you answer questions like this, even if you don't answer mine in particular!

Knight of the Order of the Keen Eye - Granted by Ed Greenwood, 30th January 2005

Edited by - Gerath Hoan on 16 May 2004 15:54:56
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  17:28:47  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hail, fellow scribes! Doth the wind blow fair for thee?
Yes, 'tis I, The Hooded One, with VERY fresh words from Ed (as in, not smart-tongued, but only just these last few breaths uttered: I e-sent him postings from this thread and he replied almost instantly):

Aha! A very timely pair of related questions! I'm going to break off puttering on the outstanding Realmslore questions in this thread for a few minutes, and quickly answer this latest matter about Vangerdahast and Elminster.
simontrinity, I hope in future fiction to outline this in far greater detail, but let me summarize the relationship between Vangey and Old El.
Gerath Hoan, welcome to the thread, and I hope what follows answers your query about Vangey.
Briefly put, Vangerdahast has always been an ambitious, controlling sort of person, and has always been fiercely, unswervingly dedicated to the service of Cormyr (or to be a tad more precise, his vision of what the Forest Kingdom could and should be).
Early in his career, Vangey found himself desiring to achieve the greatest possible personal magical power to arm himself properly for plunging into the ferocious power struggles swirling around the Cormyrean Court at the time of his youth (and realizing his personal knowledge of magic and mastery of spells would have to be better than anyone the various Cormyrean noble families -- and/or their Sembian allies -- could hire). He decided to go to the best tutor he could think of: Elminster.
He became El's apprentice, and flourished in spellcraft, though he found Elminster's freewheeling, meddling, all-too-often-overly-kindhearted style grating (being himself more in love with control and hierarchy).
The problems arose after Vangey left Elminster's tutelage (amicably enough) and returned to Cormyr. Vangerdahast considered El his 'ace in the hole' to call upon whenever real crises threatened the stability of Cormyr and outstripped War Wizard capabilities, and did so -- but very much resented that Elminster's meddling and wise old advice came with such aid, every time.
One of the supporting scenes in ELMINSTER IN HELL ("Here Be Wizards" in Chapter 5) illustrates this ongoing friction (and the guilt creeping into Vangey recently, over his relations with Elminster).
Not knowing a polite way to go on demanding El's aid but at the same time telling him to 'butt out' of trying to twist events and attitudes in Cormyr (and dismissing the fact that El and the other Chosen had been meddling in Cormyr and everywhere else for years upon years), Vangey said it impolitely.
El took it well enough -- but went right on meddling, just choosing to now do it behind Vangey's back or without bothering to stop in and say hello to Vangey whenever he was active in Cormyr. Again, Vangerdahast chose to ignore that this is a large and well-established part of what Chosen of Mystra DO, and took it as a personal challenge to his authority. A failure to understand that "the apprentice had grown up," if you will. So Vangerdahast became increasingly frosty in his verbal and written communications with Elminster, and his comments about Elminster to other Chosen and to Harper go-betweens.
And Old El went on serenely behaving the way he always had, occasionally teasing Vangey with smart return-fire remarks of his own and ignoring Vangerdahast's decrees and demands to War Wizards that El be arrested and rendered no aid. As most of El's acidic remarks were shrewd criticisms of Vangerdahast's failings (love of intrigue, desire to know EVERYthing going on in the realm and thus crush and ruin shy or paranoid persons by repeatedly violating their privacy, and absolute need to be at the centre of things and to ALWAYS be in control, even when that need hampered the necessary personal growth of Obarskyrs destined to rule or who might come to the throne if bad things happened to their close relations, and so on), they really nettled Vangey, and the deep stings made him even more furious.
Both the Harpers and the Chosen admired Vangerdahast's successes in dealing with rebellious Cormyrean nobles and Azoun IV's personal failings, and building Cormyr into a truly prosperous, law-abiding, strong realm, and covertly helped him whenever they could. In the words of Storm Silverhand: "If we had a dozen Cormyrs, Faerun would be a shining homeland for all." They also noticed that increased experience and the goadings of Elminster were tempering Vangerdahast into an increasingly dextrous intriguer, and into a man who increasingly saw and admitted his own failings, and was willing to work to mend them.
So they wanted him to stick around, in particular to oversee the Forest Kingdom after Azoun IV's inevitable death (given ambitious nobles and Sembians, Alusair's willful nature, and other factors), and started to manipulate him into finding old magics and developing others that have longevity side-effects. Vangey is no fool when it comes to magic, and the moment he noticed these longevity effects, he embraced them so as, yes, to be around to serve Cormyr for the greatest possible time. Whereupon his manipulators increased their work to lengthen his years even more, beyond what he'd noticed. To what extent and in which ways they did so I'd like to keep secret for now (possible future fiction, again), but suffice it to say that their efforts, coupled with some magics that seem to lengthen the lifespans of all Royal Magicians of Cormyr (quite possibly because Mystra looks favourably on anyone who maintains and commands a force of government-related wizards, so long as those mages behave in ways that don't involve widespread slaughter of other wizards), gave Vangey many more years than most folk can enjoy.
And Vangey has used his time well. As SiriusBlack pointed out, ELMINSTER'S DAUGHTER shows us something of how Vangerdahast and Elminster get along "now" (current Realms time).

While I'm here, I might as well tackle Gerath Hoan's second question. Yes, the Hiloars are nobles, of a sort that's sometimes called "border nobles" around Court: successful families dwelling in border or debatable areas of Cormyr (along the Sembian border, Arabel, and Marsember) who have demonstrated some loyalty to the Crown. Vangey wants to keep them loyal and build on their success and local influence, so he ennobles them, involves them in minor services to the Crown (to test them with temptations), and butters them up (asks their opinions on matters, confers with them often so they feel important, and so on). He wants both to use their capabilities for the betterment of Cormyr, and firmly bind their loyalties to the Obarskyrs and head off intrigues and rebellions born of noble and rich merchant dissatisfaction with having to endure the laws and authority of the Crown.
House Hiloar (for some reason, they dislike being referred to as "the Hiloars," and so they're never so styled in Court converse) have long been successful overland shippers (caravan traders), specializing in linking the Moonsea lands and the northerly Dales with the southern port trade of Cormyr. This makes them local competitors with the Zhents, and prime targets for being corrupted by the Zhents and used as stooges (hence the scrutiny the War Wizards, Purple Dragons, and individual roaming Highknights subject them to). Recently, as profits have dwindled in the face of strife in the Dales and in Cormyr itself, House Hiloar has diversified by buying, breeding, and selling horses (draft beasts and warhorses), and in making divers covert property investments in Sembia. This latter move, in particular, sharpened the interest and scrutiny of the Crown (the War Wizards were worried that Sembian interests were controlling House Hiloar), but thus far no disloyalty has been uncovered, which of course raised House Hiloar's worth in Vangey's eyes, and started him on the road to really rewarding them to both keep and make use of their loyalty (Court posts and titles for younger Hiloar bloods, "help" at Court with red tape and tax and fee breaks for favoured merchants, and so on). The War Wizards are looking to find Hiloars with magical talent, so they can install friendly, helpful War Wizards (spies) as tutors. I don't want to say too much more about the Hiloar family because it'll cut down on your options as a DM, and because of possible future Realmslore publications.
So there you go. Have fun, and hey, I love answering the questions -- so now I've got to get right back to the oldest outstanding lore request (from Lashan, and almost a month old)! Ciao for now!

So saith Ed. As it happens, I already knew almost all of what he's said here about Vangerdahast from our 'home' Realms campaign play, but this is the first time he's ever said so much in print, so: over here, scribes interested in Cormyr and in Vangerdahast! Essential Realmslore alert!
I feel I should be blowing a herald's horn.
THO
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Gerath Hoan
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
152 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  17:40:34  Show Profile Send Gerath Hoan a Private Message
Wow! Swift response indeed!

Thank you so much Ed (and the Hooded One) for that info... i'm in fact playing a foppish young scion of House Hiloar who happens to be involved with the War Wizards and their intrigues (having some small talent in sorcery himself!)

I can't believe my campaign followed so closely to what you reckoned would happen... This is why i LOVE the Realms! You've created a great sandbox for us all to play in.

*off goes one happy gamer*

Knight of the Order of the Keen Eye - Granted by Ed Greenwood, 30th January 2005

Edited by - Gerath Hoan on 16 May 2004 17:54:53
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  17:45:29  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

I feel I should be blowing a herald's horn.



Sounds like we need a new emoticon.

Or perhaps we should just ask Alaundo to change your current title of "apprentice scribe" to something more appropriate?

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more.
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  17:48:05  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
over here, scribes interested in Cormyr and in Vangerdahast! Essential Realmslore alert!
I feel I should be blowing a herald's horn.
THO




Wonderful post THO. As someone who loves reading anything about Cormyr, thank you to yourself and to Ed Greenwood.

And speaking of Cormyr, THO

Warning

spoilers

for

those

who

haven't

read

Elminster's

Daughter


....what do you think about the developments at the end of the novel in regards to Azoun V will apparently have one of Vangey's descendants by his side, only a couple of years younger?

I'm not sure what to wish for....a young man by Azoun V's side, two scourges of Womanhood in all the Heartlands or a young lady who will immediatly have me thinking of Amedahast and her initial dealings with Prince Azoun in Cormyr: A Novel.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  17:50:09  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Oooh, yes. The problem is: appropriate. Ahem.
My serious side ("Lady Herald of the Realms" might do) or my, ahem, frisky side ("Enticing Enchantress [Wanton Flirt] of the Realms")?
Hmmm. Perhaps if I purred in Alaundo's ear . . .
Or not. I'm sure I give him more than enough headaches already.

THO
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  17:52:01  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Or perhaps we should just ask Alaundo to change your current title of "apprentice scribe" to something more appropriate?



Nominations? Suggestions? Anyone?

"Scribe from the Hood" is not an option by the way.
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