Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 Running the Realms
 Good placement for a Viking-like culture?
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3

Joebing
Learned Scribe

USA
194 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2014 :  18:54:03  Show Profile Send Joebing a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So through my journeys into the Realms, I have yet to come across a good placement for a Viking-like culture. Does anyone have any ideas other than north of Neverwinter or Ruathym? Maybe something more continental?

I look at the designs for Faerun, and while that area seems like the logical choice based on the cultures in each region and the equivalent on earth, however, I think Northern Anchorome would be an interesting place...

Still plugging away at pre-3e conversion to 3.5

"It's all wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey" - Doctor Who

MY 3.5 REALMS CONVERSION SITE IS UNDERWAY!

https://sites.google.com/site/realmsto35/home

Edited by - Joebing on 28 Feb 2014 19:06:58

Mapolq
Senior Scribe

Brazil
465 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2014 :  20:33:05  Show Profile Send Mapolq a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, you've touched one of the most messy things in the dirty underbelly of our big pile of Realmslore.

I say that because Viking-like people have appeared in various places throughout the Realms without much explanation (though sometimes a portal is mentioned). It's also unclear where these "Northmen" came from originally before they founded Illusk, they may be autochtonous or interlopers, nobody seems to know. But taking the good with the bad, this may present some opportunities for you. That's because there's a few Viking-themed people in the Realms not quite where you might expect. I'll start with the obvious, though.

1- As you said, Luskan and Ruathym - that's the core of the land of the "Northmen". But they're also present in many, many islands in the Trackless Sea (the Whalebones, Tuern, the Icepeak, Gundarlun the Wave Rocks and the Purple Rocks), as well as in Fireshear, Ironmaster and the rest of the Cold Run, and into Icewind Dale. Settlements further inland or south from Luskan (Mirabar, Port Llast) may also have some influence.

2- The northern parts of the Moonshae Isles, an archipelago with many, many islands, also is mostly "Northman" land. Basically, they own everything north and northwest of Alaron, and have some presence in the other (mainly Ffolk) islands. The parallel here are likely the Danish and Norse invasions and settlements in Britain and Ireland. Until here, nothing so strange.

3- Things start getting a bit weird now. Some "Northmen" apparently appeared in Rashemen or Narfell a long time ago and mixed with the local ethnicities, so the Rashemi (and perhaps some Nar) have a lot of Illusk ancestry. I think a portal is mentioned, but that may have been just assumptions. The parallel here is likely the forays of scandinavians (of what would be modern Sweden, I believe) into Russia, mingling with the Slavic groups already there and giving form to the modern Russian national identity. They went as far as naming the invading Illuskans "Rus", exactly like the real-world culture.

4- Portals can lead anywhere, right? So, apparently one of them connects the Trackless Sea to the Great Sea near the Utter East, or did so in the past. The Five Kingdoms of the Utter East are a curious polity, formed by an ethnic mix of "Northmen" and Mar (who some theorise originally came from Malatra or vice-versa, since they share some characteristics with the peoples from there - kind of Indianesque, if you will). One of the Five Kingdoms is named Königheim, which is German, and not scandinavian at all, I think, adding to the pot and making the whole thing seem... weird.

That's what I can remember, but I think there were a few more obscure references. I call the help of the fellow scribes. I think I read somewhere about "Northmen" on Anchoromé, but I'm not sure at all if it was canon. Would make sense that they could have reached it (and the likely parallel there would be the Vinlanders).

Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.

Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955

My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447

Edited by - Mapolq on 28 Feb 2014 20:43:36
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6164 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2014 :  23:14:51  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My first inclination would be uncharted islands somewhere Westwards of Waterdeep, possibly but not necessarily proximate to the Moonshaes.

But land-based Vikinglike people living (in the snowy plains and mountains?) North of the Moonsea, beyond Thar, somewhere within the Tortured Lands and the Ride might also be workable. For that matter, good old Vaasa and Damara aren‘t bad choices either.

Rashamen works, yes, but methinks it be too infested with creatures fey and elven for proper hardy Viking folk to abide. On the flipside, however, dwarven vikings seem like a very workable archetype regardless of which icy lands they may live in (or under) - and as a bonus, they might be the only race in the Realms able to stomach mead, they‘re stubbornly big-bearded, plus they already have a healthy dose of Jotun-hatred.

Pshaw and pish-posh upon the preposterous preponderance of portals! Where‘d that Viking come from? A portal. Where‘d he go? A portal. Where‘d that .45 Automatic, MX Cruise Missile, German Panzer, or Federation Starship come from? Duh, a portal. Bah! It was cool the first few times, but seriously, magic portals are now an endemic panacea for All-Things-Inexplicable in the Realms which authors have become too lazy to explain creatively. To my mind, portals should be reserved only for desperate DMs who need no real reason to move disparate PCs and adventures together, then return the PCs back to their ubiquitous home-tavern sometime before dinner.

Real Viking folk had longboats. Imagine how far they could (inadvertently?) row with a rune-decorated Skaldjammer helm on a drakkar raider.

Eat lots of garlic - it keeps the elves and vampires away.
Don't stick your sword into dragons, you just don't know where they've been.
Avoid stepping on halflings. They stick to your boots, will smell awful, and are impossible to scrape off.
Ah, of course. Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.
[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 28 Feb 2014 23:35:16
Go to Top of Page

Mapolq
Senior Scribe

Brazil
465 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2014 :  23:38:14  Show Profile Send Mapolq a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik


Pshaw and pish-posh upon the preposterous preponderance of portals! Where‘d that Viking come from? A portal. Where‘d he go? A portal. Where‘d that .45 Automatic, MX Cruise Missile, German Panzer, or Federation Starship come from? Duh, a portal. Bah! It was cool the first few times, but seriously, magic portals are now an endemic panacea for All-Things-Inexplicable in the Realms which authors have become too lazy to explain creatively. To my mind, portals should be reserved only for desperate DMs who need no real reason to move disparate PCs and adventures together, then return the PCs back to their ubiquitous home-tavern sometime before dinner.



Yep, that's why I said it's in the dirty underbelly of Candlekeep. Lots of mish-mashed stuff to fit real-world cultural themes placed in far-flung places and then, after someone thought "oh, wait... how did they get here?" and had the entire book/game/novel/whatever written, they came up with a portal. Probably. If they bothered at all. I think portals can be awesome, though, and these are very bad examples.

But, in a more important point, what's wrong with mead?!

Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.

Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955

My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447

Edited by - Mapolq on 28 Feb 2014 23:40:56
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6164 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2014 :  00:15:32  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You have obviously never been drunk on mead.
Or after-drunk from mead.
Or hungover and depleted (and mysteriously wounded in body and mind) after mead.

Vile and treacherous stuff, it inflicts a unique and subtle flavour of unimaginable suffering entirely unbeknownst to lesser drinks.

Eat lots of garlic - it keeps the elves and vampires away.
Don't stick your sword into dragons, you just don't know where they've been.
Avoid stepping on halflings. They stick to your boots, will smell awful, and are impossible to scrape off.
Ah, of course. Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.
[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

Mapolq
Senior Scribe

Brazil
465 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2014 :  00:33:16  Show Profile Send Mapolq a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay. I guess I drink my mead like an elf, to be honest, so you may have a point.

Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.

Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955

My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2014 :  04:58:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love a good mead. I use to brew it with my father-in-law.

Anyhow... worst case of what you are talking about - Konigheim, down in the Utter East; its a psuedo-Norse country (supposedly they got 'lost in a storm', or some-such). Nearby there is even a 'Herne's Woods'.

Oh... and some of them have a 'third eye' on their foreheads.... yup... one of the Realms weirder bits.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 01 Mar 2014 05:00:09
Go to Top of Page

Mapolq
Senior Scribe

Brazil
465 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2014 :  06:18:52  Show Profile Send Mapolq a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah yes... I guess I just assumed the portal in that case then. Since, like... it'd have to be one big frickin' storm to take a bunch of boats from Illusk to the edge of Zakhara (oh, how about we say a whole nation of Danes end up in India in the 900s... um, because of a storm... yeah, good one... the Portuguese got nothing on Vikings I say).

Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.

Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955

My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447

Edited by - Mapolq on 01 Mar 2014 06:24:29
Go to Top of Page

Joebing
Learned Scribe

USA
194 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2014 :  04:04:34  Show Profile Send Joebing a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I love a good mead. I use to brew it with my father-in-law.

Anyhow... worst case of what you are talking about - Konigheim, down in the Utter East; its a psuedo-Norse country (supposedly they got 'lost in a storm', or some-such). Nearby there is even a 'Herne's Woods'.

Oh... and some of them have a 'third eye' on their foreheads.... yup... one of the Realms weirder bits.



I was hoping you would get in on this Markustay, for it is your unfinished map of Anchorome I am using for the exploring party (when they get there).

Thanks to everyone on this topic. Strange how, in relation to earth, most other cultures are in the "right place" on Toril, but the Norse-like cultures are spread all over. There must have been a portal of some form, or they expanded quite a bit then disappeared.

Still plugging away at pre-3e conversion to 3.5

"It's all wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey" - Doctor Who

MY 3.5 REALMS CONVERSION SITE IS UNDERWAY!

https://sites.google.com/site/realmsto35/home
Go to Top of Page

Mapolq
Senior Scribe

Brazil
465 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2014 :  05:36:09  Show Profile Send Mapolq a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Climate can shape culture (and architecture, social organisation, etc.) quite a bit, so it's not that strange I'd say. You generally can't have desert nomads with no desert - there's a reason for how they live, how they move around, what they wear, etc.

The strange part are the "Norse", that much I agree with. And it could have been made exotic in a better way, but... eh, it wasn't.

Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.

Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955

My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447

Edited by - Mapolq on 02 Mar 2014 05:38:07
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5240 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2014 :  12:43:19  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm, so if I wanted to throw the island of Jakandor below "the islands of the Utter South" on the Al-Qadim map to make it very isolated.... I wouldn't have to stretch all the way to Anchorome for the "Knorrman" population to have suddenly shown up during the spellplague due to some freak wizard weather. Where's this information on Konigheim published? I see it on a map that I yanked from the web, but I don't see it on any official maps.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2017 :  22:21:04  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Konigheim WAS on an 'official map'. It may have been in the Double-Diamond novel (there may have been another novel, I did this research so long ago now), and there was definitely one that came with the Blood & Magic video game. Konigheim is a VERY weird Norse-like kingdom (some people have a 'third eye' on their forehead - I kid you not).

*Rezzed* this thread because its about the subject matter I am currently working on: Where did FR's Northmen originally come from?

While working alongside two other talented young gentleman back before Ravenlore Press became defunct, we created the sub-setting of The Rivlands, which I believe can still be purchased somewhere (DriveThruRPG maybe?). Truth be told, despite our best efforts, and a very professional looking cover, it didn't 'take off', probably because it wasn't linked to a setting (it was, but we hadn't done that part yet... which may have been the mistake), and it also wasn't connected to any particular rules-set (which we thought was brilliant, but in hindsight, perhaps not). It did lean heavily toward 1e/2e D&D though. What a waste - a perfectly good map (and sourcebook) for Viking nation just going to waste...

So Dallor and I got to talking yesterday, and I decided to go ahead - quite on my own (so I am not affiliated with any company ATM, so this counts as 'fan work' in regards to all actual companies involved) - and get an idea of what this would look like pasted into The Forgotten Realms... and it was a good fit. in fact, it was a GREAT fit. Right between Ruathym and the Purple Rocks.

As of right now we have no definite 'plans' regarding this, which is partially due to one company and another individual owning certain rights, and I (not the now defunct company, which is NOT involved in this) am not sure what we can do, and how much we can do. So its just gonna be a map some folks may or may not find useful, based mostly on the original that came in the Midnight at Mogheim product.

Now, the fact that we never really knew for sure where our (FR) Northmen came from, and we just had two major events that swapped real-estate around in The Realms (and a planet we never knew about that functions as Toril's 'storage shed'), doesn't necessarily mean that FR's Northmen may have come from The Rivlands, or that The Rivlands itself may have been on Abeir for a time and now relocated, or even that 'Gates' sometimes open up on the high seas that allow ships to pass from one world to another without their crews even being aware (so a thousand years of 'accidental immigration') does NOT mean that we should just assume these sorts of things about The Rivalnds, and The Realms, even if it would be a nifty way to shoe-horn our mysterious 'Northmen progenitor land' into the Realms proper.

Because suggesting such things would probably not sit well with certain folk, which is why I am doing this all on my own, with no connection to anyone else, without any desire to make money off of anything, now or down the line. Just think of it as yet-another of my 'Misbegotten Realms', hypothetical mash-up maps. I don't have anything profound to show yet - just toying with two existing maps ATM and matching scales. However, I am posting this here at this time because i like to know how interested people would be in something along these lines?

Oh, and if you think this is delaying my Nentir Vale conversion, quite the contrary, actually. I'd have to finish THAT in order to move forward with this, since that is one of the two maps I am using for this (three, if you count Mike Schley's Storm King's Thunder map, but I am merely using that one to get everything of mine placed correctly - I highly recommend that source and map to anyone who doesn't have them yet).

Cheers

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 23 Mar 2017 18:27:57
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6164 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2017 :  01:48:11  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The notion of ocean portals makes much sense.

After all, nearly three-quarters of our planet's surface is covered by water. At a glance I'd estimate over two-thirds of Toril is as well. I've never seen any canon maps of Abeir, but it seems safe to guess it's also probably mostly water.

Portals and gates might appear and disappear regularly or randomly, anytime conditions are right. It makes sense for most of them to be located away from anyone, they'd open and close (or even persist "permanently") without ever being discovered, the majority of them would be located in surface regions (like the middle of an ocean) that are unmapped and infrequently travelled.

Or it makes sense for portals/gates to be "attracted" to people. They might follow magical or divine or planar laws that nobody understands, maybe they're even like quantum phenomena which can only exist or occur in the presence of an "observef". Exact details of their inner workings and properties aren't as important as the fact that they might move people from one place to another regafdless of where the people are.

Being "lost at sea" or "lost in a storm" or "carried by strange winds/currents" are classic tropes for every seafaring culture. The mythologies and folklores of ancient Mediterranean and Asian cultures are rife with tales about sailors finding strange islands filled with strange races, cultures, creatures, and perils. A popular Scandanavian trope is for longboats to somehow sail over the edge of the world, to other planes, across rivers of lightning and rainbow bridges. 2E Planescape lore mentions methods of planar travel across (Celtic and Greek) rivers. Then again, desert-plains horse cultures might as easily stumble across extraplanar portals by riding across barren wastelands, it's a culture-focus thing and the Viking peoples were a famously watergoing culture.

Interesting that the Portugese, Dutch, Spanish, and English were never sucked into the Realms, lol.

Eat lots of garlic - it keeps the elves and vampires away.
Don't stick your sword into dragons, you just don't know where they've been.
Avoid stepping on halflings. They stick to your boots, will smell awful, and are impossible to scrape off.
Ah, of course. Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.
[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
39 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2017 :  09:29:17  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
However, I am posting this here at this time because i like to know how interested people would be in something along these lines?


As always, very much
Go to Top of Page

Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
82 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2017 :  14:46:43  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ayrik: The Vikings did have "Elf Blòt" in their religion, faeries, elves and fey spiritual connection in Rashemen don't invalidate similarities. Especially since exactly what "elves" were to norse people, is not fully known. And archaeology got lots of Shaman theories of Norse religion.
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2017 :  17:46:48  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've studied quite a bit of folklore, and from what I can see (worldwide) is that elf-type beings were in-fact human sized, and perhaps even slightly taller, originally, and then 'dwindled'. People who have studied the legends over the centuries have often blamed this on the spread of Christiandom, which painted all, non-Christian things as both evil and weak ('small' = 'weak' in this case). However, more recent theories suggest that these are references to other hominids - both much larger and smaller than homosapien - that have died-off, and MUCH more recently than many people realize (as Cromagnum snuffed-out - and absorbed - the Neaderthal, this probably happened world-wide, and lead to an eventually 'homogenization' of racial groups, and the 'lesser groups' only survived in remote places until modern times, perhaps in a more primitive {hairy, beast-like} state.)

Many 'birth defects' originate in these ancient, aberrant genes showing up on occasion. These 'others' are stored within us, in case mother nature ever needs to fiddle with us again.

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Interesting that the Portugese, Dutch, Spanish, and English were never sucked into the Realms, lol.
Who says they weren't?
Italians definitely were (if not the Romans) - there are very Italian-sounding names in the Moonsea (perhaps that sea correspond's to our Mediterranean?)

I also see 'burg' or 'berg' at the end of some place names, so some Germanic people also must have made it in.

I did an entire article on 'The sea Gates' in the Candlekeep Compendium IV.

On Topic:
I should have at least an outline-map showing what I propose shortly. I already did a mock-up (and loved it), so I went ahead and started doing a base-map, which takes somewhat longer than a fast mock-up (because of all the layers - I am using my original files for The Rivlands map to build the new version).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 23 Mar 2017 17:53:13
Go to Top of Page

KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
604 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2017 :  03:41:17  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As to answering where the Northmen came from, here's Ed in his thread on the issue back in 2010. I know I quoted this somewhere else recently, and that it doesn't fit everyone's needs, but for my Realms Ed's opinion always trumps anything else.
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One, quoting Ed on where the Northmen came from

re. movement: gate/portal travel from elsewhere on Toril. To the rugged, rolling mountains/valleys/foothills country north and east of Luskan and Mirabar, and south of the Spine of the World.
Where the "Northmen" appeared, wandered in search of seas like those they were used to (in the same latitude, but on the other side of the planet), "discovered" the Sword Coast, and then the islands (notably the archipelago of the northeast Moonshaes, that was once explored in a long-ago TSR module, from which they spread to the other northern Sea of Swords isles, conquering as they went).

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Pshaw and pish-posh upon the preposterous preponderance of portals! Where‘d that Viking come from? A portal. Where‘d he go? A portal. Where‘d that .45 Automatic, MX Cruise Missile, German Panzer, or Federation Starship come from? Duh, a portal. Bah! It was cool the first few times, but seriously, magic portals are now an endemic panacea for All-Things-Inexplicable in the Realms which authors have become too lazy to explain creatively. To my mind, portals should be reserved only for desperate DMs who need no real reason to move disparate PCs and adventures together, then return the PCs back to their ubiquitous home-tavern sometime before dinner.

A totally fair point of view, but I think it's a matter of taste. There are heaps of portals in the Realms, and it makes sense to me that they actually get used every now and again. It could be easily argued that there should be more portal travel going on, not less. Is it lazy? Maybe. Probably. But it uses one of the assumptions of the setting (existence of portals), so it's okay by me.

Edit: Doesn't Ed have some sort of agreement where anything he says becomes canon unless it contradicts a published source?

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North

Edited by - KanzenAU on 26 Mar 2017 03:48:38
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4769 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2017 :  03:53:08  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In my North Timeline I had the Northmen come from "the West" and first settle the island of Ruathym and then spread through the North and the Sword Coast. They did find portals on Ruathym (remnants of the work of the Creator Races) which took them to two places: Ashanath and the Council Hills.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2017 :  04:38:41  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*UGH* I read two threads, one right after the other, and then responding to both in only one post, so some of the info I wanted to relate ended up elsewhere, but I did C&P this part -

@George Krashos - this all 'conversion'/fanstuff. I realize FR's Northmen probably came 'from the west', which could mean another continent (or string of islands), or it could just be a region of 'planer destabilization' (intermittent random sea portals) that they keep sailing out of (as Ed hinted at... but only as one possibility). Placing The Rivlands so close to Faerûn in my current map isn't ideal lore-wise (even if it was in Abeir, and that was where our Northmen came from), but it is far more useful there, and thats why I'm doing it (fully aware of how imperfect that is canonically).

I didn't finish the conversion (shoe-horning, really), because prying various 'layers' back apart on te original map was more work than I anticipated, plus I revisited the original Rivlands map, and posted it on my DeviantART page - check it out. When I'm done with the conversion, the continent to the north will be gone, and The Rivlands will be wedged between the Purple Rocks and Ruathym (its a reall good fit... to scale!) I should have a WIP up tomorrow.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2017 :  03:07:26  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Still not done with the conversion proper, only because Ruathym and Gunderlun look stupid 'bare', compared to everything else. Got all the 'heavy lifting' out of the way, so now I just have to add a few mountains a trees and I'll be good to go - probably tomorrow... hopefully.

In the interim, I have the canon (to The World of Ark) Rivlands map that I linked above, and I did a quick swap-in with the SKT map just to show folks how it would look in The Forgotten Realms. Here is that map.

And if anyone has the link to that 'free preview' of the Storm King's Thunder map from that charity fundraiser, that would be great - I have the map, but I wanted to provide a link to it on my DeviantART page and couldn't find it.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 27 Mar 2017 03:07:54
Go to Top of Page

Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
39 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2017 :  12:11:21  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What, like this?
https://i.imgur.com/zTDBTDV.jpg
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2017 :  18:07:30  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually, thats NOT the one I have (I DO have the larger version of that). The one I have is longer than it is tall, almost like a 'banner', and its includes the islands we are talking about here. The file is called SKTPreview_map (I do not think I renamed it - I usually don't, unless its just a string of numbers).

That map there falls out between (size-wise) of the two I have, and is a portion of the full Storm King's Thunder map. the two I have are not identical - the terrain appears very much the same (Mike Schley may have played with some tones and brightness), but they are labeled completely different (different style, and also not exactly the same sites shown on both). Since one is a preview of the other, I have to assume changes were made in the time between.

There was a page with some sort of charity fund-raiser thingie (an RPG played to raise money, IIRC), and they met their goals, and the preview was on that. Thats the page I'd like to link to, since it seems to be the legit/legal way to go.

But thanks, though, for your effort.

EDIT:
Aaaaaaannnd... Oh-DOH! I found it by putting that exact name in. LOL
The map I was thinking of

EDIT2:
So no opinions on how that looks there?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 27 Mar 2017 18:19:48
Go to Top of Page

Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
39 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2017 :  19:14:05  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Think it fits very well. How big is the island chain compared to fx Scandinavia, just to get some perspective (Vikings being from those parts and all)?
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2017 :  20:49:55  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Turns out its not very big at all - the entire region (including Ruathym, Gunderlun, and the Purple Rocks) is about the same land-area as Iceland.

Map of comparison, with the Rivlands and some FR stuff pasted into Europe.

Note that the original setting for The Rivlands was The World of Ark, which has about a dozen small, Norse-like countries (one to the south along that island chain, and the rest on the mainland to the north, which you can see on the canon map I posted a link to a couple of posts above). Thus, the entirety of the 'Northmen' region in The World of Ark (I really need to repost the world map of that at DeviantART) is probably a bit bigger than RW Scandanavia. Aver - the main island of the Kingdom of Rivland - is smaller than most of the other countries; this was done on purpose so that it could be easily shoe-horned into other settings (Ravenlore Press used the 'modular approach' to world design, or 'plug & play', and is edition/system neutral).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 27 Mar 2017 20:52:27
Go to Top of Page

Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
39 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2017 :  21:20:01  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No wonder the Northmen sailed to far off lands - must have been getting crowded.
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2017 :  21:47:00  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, there's Ruathym and Gunderlun on that map, and a tiny bit of The Purple Rocks (what an obnoxious name to type!). The only other 'large' (laughable) isle the Northmen come from is Tuern, way up north. So as small/funny as The Rivlands looks there, just think of how much worse the FR canon 'Northmen Realms' are! Even with the northern Moonshaes belonging to them, their homelands are ridiculously tiny compared to RW. They HAVE to come from 'elsewhere', which is backed-up by Ed's statements, of course, and some FR canon that says "they arrived from the south" (which is REALLY odd, but Ed did say portals were involved in that).

If its portals/gates, then it doesn't necessarily have to be from another world - it could be from Anchorômé, or some other landmass in that direction, or even in the Celestial Sea east of Kara-Tur (there is the huge honkin' 'arm' that extends across the top of the map from K-T).

EDIT:
Also, if they aren't 'from Earth', then perhaps it was a similar culture that originated in southern waters? Not necessarily near the southern pole - they could have been from a warm region. The Warhammer setting has some of their Norse-like folk (Norsca) coming from a jungle region (albeit they are descendants of ones that arrived from the north).

It could be FR's Northmen arrived 'from elsewhere', settled some other landmass on Toril (like that very large island to the south), and then spread north, where we see them today. So we could have some of those WH-style 'jungle Norse' in Fr somewhere.

EDIT2:
And thinking about where a group who have dragon-prows on their boats could have come from lead me right back to Abeir again.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 27 Mar 2017 21:59:25
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000