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Crai
Acolyte
USA
42 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Feb 2014 : 03:04:51
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Tom Costa's most excellent article on Faerūnian linguistics is located in 1999's Dragon Annual #4 ... entitled "Speaking in Tongues". It's the most comprehensive dissertation on Faerūnian languages that I'm aware of (please correct me if I'm wrong!). He does a great job merging new-&-enlightening lore ("fluff") with integratable game mechanics ("crunch") for 2nd Edition D&D in the F.R.
I'm writing to all of you to get some insight and feedback on Faerūnian linguistics and how this field of interest/study is used in your campaign world. Here are my points of interest that I'd love to get commentary on:
1. Have any of you used this optional rules resource in 2E? If so, how did it work for you?
2. Have any of you modified this rules resources to accomodate 3.5, Pathfinder and/or 4E languages/linguistics use? If so, any testimonials?
3. With the world-upheaval introduction of Abeir in 4E F.R., are there any tweaks needed to update Tom Costa's language tables?
***
Probably tomorrow, I'll post again to this thread showing how I integrated this language resource to my hybridized 3.5/PF (3.P) ruleset being used in my unique F.R. campaign world.
Unique amongst all the published D&D campaign worlds, the F.R. has a tremendous amount of detail and data on its multitude of cultures and languages. Even Tom Costa posted awhile back that he had to simplify and pare-down the information in his article (possibly with input from SKR, editors and/or Ed - I can't recall) in order to make it more easily digestible for the gaming community.
While most editions of D&D seem to focus on characters acquiring languages that most benefit them in typical combat adventuring pursuits (Giant, Celestial, Abyssal, Terran, Sylvan, Orcish, etc.), I really do advocate to F.R. fans to use some variant of Tom Costa's language system for an additional level of enjoyable immersion into F.R. culture. Even if it means giving PCs extra language proficiency slots to acquire some of these amazing regional languages, dialects, cants, patois, creoles and argots. It wouldn't really wouldn't be that much of a power creep for the PCs. Tom Costa even recommends giving the PCs some version of extra proficiencies for these languages.
Also to note, some of the F.R.'s 3.5 sourcebooks (like RoF, PGtF, etc.) are really good at fleshing out more linguistic details to accompany "Speaking in Tongues".
Thanks for your time and attention! 
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2014 : 03:10:48
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The loremaster.org forums are down right now, but when they return you'll find a Forgotten Realms Lexicon there, that has words in different Realms languages--including those of beholders, drawn from current Realms sources.
I have not read Costa's article, but I will wager the Lexicon has material he did not have access to at the time, and would therefore compliment his work. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2014 : 16:15:13
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I remember reading it a long time ago. I never would use the "you roll dice to figure out how much of a sentence is understood" thing, but it was a good article. It was very detailed and kind of bewildered me at the time because it introduced a bunch of languages that I'd never seen proposed in prior lore. Plus some of the languages used one alphabet but was named something else (i.e. Muhjuri used the Semphari alphabet). That being said, when they came out with the languages proposed in the 3rd edition campaign setting, I felt that they'd finally nailed it (almost). I still felt that they needed to correct some of the entries as far as alphabets (for instance, Tuigan said it used the Thorass alphabet even though there is a specific Tuigan alphabet shown from the horde boxed set), and I felt they made the changes because no one had made a font for the previously approved lore.
That's why recently I bought a font creation software and created the Tuigan font (which I assume to be the Roushoum alphabet for ancient Imaskari) from the Horde boxed set (well that, and I was having fun making heraldic crests and I really like the idea of people incorporating words/mottos/names on their shields, flags, swords, staves, wands, etc....). Markustay then pointed me towards the Shou-Chiang alphabet found on the old trail map for Kara-Tur, and I figured that would be an alphabet covering most of those countries. Then, just because they were available, I created 2 more from the horde set (Semphari alphabet and Ra-Khati alphabet). I personally would extend the Semphari alphabet to the Untheric language as well besides just Semphar and Murghom rather than Unther using the dwarven alphabet of Dethek. I only did the Ra-Khati alphabet to be a completist, as their culture is very insular, but it only took half an hour. The Mulhorandi language was originally supposed to be all hieroglyphs, but in third edition, they changed that to "Celestial" which I actually find more plausible. Also, they changed the alphabet for Espruar from what it was in 1st/2nd edition, such that I assume that the original is for "feywild languages", "ancient elvish" or Seldruin (the elven high magic language) and that the "old 1st edition Espruar" is actually the "Hamarfae" alphabet.
I then looked at the fourth edition campaign setting to see what they did with languages (something I skimmed originally because I felt I had a good handle on it). The fourth edition BUTCHERED this previous lore, and personally there's very little of it that I would keep. The one part that I saw as having a redeeming quality was that they introduced a new alphabet for elemental languages (called Barazhad) that would account for an alphabet coming from Abeir (I would also state that this same alphabet might be linked to the air elemental related language of Alzhedo in Calimshan). I also found a print out of this alphabet, but it didn't have a correlation as to what letter went with what symbol, so I just made a guess that it was A-Z and 1-9 then 0 like most others they've represented, and I made that font too.
So, in the end, I think the realms should have the following alphabets (with notes on roughly where to use it)
Thorass - the default alphabet for humans in Faerun
Hamarfae / aka 1st edition Espruar - use it for ancient elvish and or feywild related languages.
Espruar (3rd edition) - modern elvish
Dethek - language used by dwarves and cultures with a heavy dwarven or runic influence (i.e. Damara, areas surrounding the Great Rift such as the Shaar, as well as the gnome and giant cultures)
Draconic (also called Iokharic) - the language of dragons and much magic
Celestial - exactly as its described, except that the people of Mulhorand have adapted their language to this alphabet.
Infernal - exactly as its described, but I'd note that probably ancient Narfell wrote in this dialect and thus Thayan folks adapted Mulhorandi language into this alphabet.
Tuigan/Imaskari alphabet - recommended as the main "hordelands" alphabet, including the Utter East section of the Shining South as well. I would make this also the default alphabet of ancient Raumathar as well (but having the Raumathari being a very linguistic culture and knowing a pidgin of many other languages as well, as they stole ideas from these cultures).
Shou-Chiang - anywhere where Kara-Tur is heavily involved.
Barazhad - language of the elementals and primordial, so all Abeiran languages, but also some languages of the realms (like maybe Calishite Alzehdo and the Zakharan Midani??? I've yet to find an example of their alphabet).
Semphari - Semphar, Murghom, and recommended in Unther too for using this alphabet. It breaks them away of using the alphabet of the Imaskari/Tuigan. Chessenta might use it as well.
Ra-Khati - specific to Ra-Khati and possibly some surrounding territory as you like.
Aquan - an alphabet specifically created for underwater races since they "write" differently than most anywhere else
OH, and for those that want my fonts, you can download them here
Barazhad (aka elemental and or Abeiran)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8CYc8h_6sg8eXRRMTRzNm04NTA/edit?usp=sharing
Tuigan (aka Imaskari)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8CYc8h_6sg8cWtTbG1iM0p3Rjg/edit?usp=sharing
Shou-Chiang
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8CYc8h_6sg8YXBoRV9iMHBrbTg/edit?usp=sharing
Semphari
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8CYc8h_6sg8dG9fUzV4LVFsd28/edit?usp=sharing
Ra-Khati
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8CYc8h_6sg8TEdfbVFKemJ2RTA/edit?usp=sharing
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6354 Posts |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 00:44:20
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| Okay call me a dumbass, but how does one translate and how does one 'use' the fonts Sleyvas gave? |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 13:02:22
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| my fonts? You download the file, double-click the .otf file, then click install (at least in windows 7). Then in word or whatever you pick the font. One thing I do to make things easier is write up whatever I want to write, then highlight all of it and swap the font. That way I know its spelled correctly. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 18:09:02
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
my fonts? You download the file, double-click the .otf file, then click install (at least in windows 7). Then in word or whatever you pick the font. One thing I do to make things easier is write up whatever I want to write, then highlight all of it and swap the font. That way I know its spelled correctly.
I once did that trick in class, when I finished an assignment first and someone wanted to copy off of me... I did everything in Word, changed to a font that only I had, printed it, and then gave them the printout.   |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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daarkknight
Seeker
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2014 : 14:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
my fonts? You download the file, double-click the .otf file, then click install (at least in windows 7). Then in word or whatever you pick the font. One thing I do to make things easier is write up whatever I want to write, then highlight all of it and swap the font. That way I know its spelled correctly.
I once did that trick in class, when I finished an assignment first and someone wanted to copy off of me... I did everything in Word, changed to a font that only I had, printed it, and then gave them the printout.
Terrible Wooly. Brilliant, but terrible.  |
"That's it!"
Quote attributed to Talor Stormhammer, paladin of Helm, when fighting a frost giant. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 09:08:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
The loremaster.org forums are down right now, but when they return you'll find a Forgotten Realms Lexicon there, that has words in different Realms languages--including those of beholders, drawn from current Realms sources.
I have not read Costa's article, but I will wager the Lexicon has material he did not have access to at the time, and would therefore compliment his work.
Can't find the Lexicon, it gives me some other page. Help? |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Faerūnian Linguistics - Updating Costa's Treatise.
