Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Realmslore
 Chamber of Sages
 Questions for Elaine Cunningham
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 97

Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1561 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2004 :  18:22:57  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Donohue
Steven, since you come here often, and you have chanelled Khelben on more than one occasion, could you ask Khelben to enlighten us in regards to the Moonstars and some of the reasons he founded them for all those of us unlucky souls who have not been able to get there hands on Cloak and Dagger?



I think most of what I had to say on that topic was discussed at length over in the FUTURE FR NOVELS folder, with perhaps a digression or two dropped into the discussion at Ed's folder as well.

Nutshell version for the split: You aren't doing things the way I want/need them to be done, so I'm taking my personal agents/allies and doing what needs doing. (And while Khelben's done this for scores of years within the Harpers' ranks, there's some unrevealed reasons why he's had to make a public split from them (and the Lords of Waterdeep).)

And no, Bran Skorlsun doesn't know that. He and Khelben have never quite seen eye-to-eye for reasons that the Lady Cunningham alone knows...

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
Go to Top of Page

Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1561 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2004 :  18:31:01  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
I just reread DREAM SPHERES. . .


Glad you enjoyed the book, even if it is an extreme example of the "shrubbiness" that sometimes afflicts my work -- lots of stuff going on, many subplots, and so on. As a game designer, you no doubt have an appreciation for the impulse to shove loads of details into a confined page count.



I suppose I can't very well pull a Schultz here ("I know NOTH-ink!"), can I? Guilty as charged, though I think my worst case for over-writing (and thus micro-type at 8.75/9.5 type) was EMPIRES OF THE SHINING SEA, though the DUNGEON CRAWL modules made it close as well.

Steven
Who can't wait to see if the Waterdeep novel will have another rooftop chase.

PS: To explain that, my amazement and respect for Elaine first came when I was reading ELFSHADOW while working on the CITY OF SPLENDORS boxed set. The fact that you can follow a certain chase sequence accurately on the Waterdeep map astounded me to no end, given how few authors at that time bothered to read (let alone adhere to) the game source material. Now if only we could get a longer peek inside Castle Waterdeep.....

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
Go to Top of Page

Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2004 :  18:57:00  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Of course, if Arilyn handed Elaine a single gp, I'm sure that would pay for a good amount of their shopping -- not to mention the lattes! -- once the coin was exchanged for dollars.



Actually, 1gp is about equal to $10 US. That is, if you compare similar items, such as food. Other items can be made more cheaply, but if you use food as a base, the exchange rate looks good. Or, anyway, close enough for you to get an idea.

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more.
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26496 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2004 :  19:16:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Of course, if Arilyn handed Elaine a single gp, I'm sure that would pay for a good amount of their shopping -- not to mention the lattes! -- once the coin was exchanged for dollars.



Actually, 1gp is about equal to $10 US. That is, if you compare similar items, such as food. Other items can be made more cheaply, but if you use food as a base, the exchange rate looks good. Or, anyway, close enough for you to get an idea.



Actually, I was thinking that Lady Cunningham could sell the gold piece for its weight and value -- not an equivalent amount of goods or services. After all, what's the going rate on gold these days?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

BobROE
Learned Scribe

Canada
106 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2004 :  20:39:28  Show Profile  Visit BobROE's Homepage Send BobROE a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend



I suppose I can't very well pull a Schultz here ("I know NOTH-ink!"), can I? Guilty as charged, though I think my worst case for over-writing (and thus micro-type at 8.75/9.5 type) was EMPIRES OF THE SHINING SEA, though the DUNGEON CRAWL modules made it close as well.




I consider EotSS and LoI to be some of the best stuff released for the forgotten realms, so microtype is fine with me


quote:

PS: To explain that, my amazement and respect for Elaine first came when I was reading ELFSHADOW while working on the CITY OF SPLENDORS boxed set. The fact that you can follow a certain chase sequence accurately on the Waterdeep map astounded me to no end, given how few authors at that time bothered to read (let alone adhere to) the game source material. Now if only we could get a longer peek inside Castle Waterdeep.....



Now I'm going to have to go and find the section and check that out.
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

1958 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2004 :  22:10:19  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BobROE

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

...I was reading ELFSHADOW while working on the CITY OF SPLENDORS boxed set. The fact that you can follow a certain chase sequence accurately on the Waterdeep map astounded me to no end,


Now I'm going to have to go and find the section and check that out.



I can save you a bit of time. The scene is actually in Elfsong, not Elfshadow, and it can be found on pages 280-281 of the Swords & Swords reprint. It's a short sequence, and it goes by quickly, but it's the sort of thing that takes a while to write. Lots of reference to maps, checking to see if an elf with Elaith's dexterity could make certain jumpts, and so on. I didn't think anyone would actually take out maps and follow Elaith's progress, but then, I didn't think anyone would realize that the spellsong was composed to scan to the tune of "L'homme arme" (very popular medieval melody.) There's always someone who will appreciate the extra layers, which balances out that other truth: there's always someone who will catch your every mistake!

When you're dealing with "historical novels" -- which is what I consider the Realms books to be -- getting the details wrong can throw people right out of the story. Not long ago I picked up a historical novel about Mary Queen of Scots. I opened it to a page depicting a scene between her and her husband, Henry Lord Darnley. He was playing the lute and singing, "The Bonny Earl of Moray." At that point in time, the song did not exist. It was composed about thirty years later. Historical novelists simply can't afford to make too many mistakes like that, not if they wish to earn the respect of a knowledgeable audience. And the Realms audience is certainly that.

Elfsong was a lot of fun, but I went a bit overboard on the research and background. I went through probably twenty books on riddles (history of riddling, as well as collections) to develop a tone for Vartain the Riddlemaster. And the singing sword's little ditty is actually a fully composed piece of music. I scored it for harp, viol da gamba, hand drum (preferably a bodhran), and obligato instrument (flute, low whistle, recorder, what-have-you.) Since I'm playing Celtic harp these days, I recently took a stab at rearranging it for harp and solo voice, just for my own amusement. I don't know whether or not an active involvement in "bardcraft" comes though to the page, but it makes the writing process more fun.

Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 02 Apr 2004 22:15:15
Go to Top of Page

BobROE
Learned Scribe

Canada
106 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2004 :  22:22:31  Show Profile  Visit BobROE's Homepage Send BobROE a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham


I can save you a bit of time. The scene is actually in Elfsong, not Elfshadow, and it can be found on pages 280-281 of the Swords & Swords reprint. It's a short sequence, and it goes by quickly, but it's the sort of thing that takes a while to write. Lots of reference to maps, checking to see if an elf with Elaith's dexterity could make certain jumpts, and so on. I didn't think anyone would actually take out maps and follow Elaith's progress, but then, I didn't think anyone would realize that the spellsong was composed to scan to the tune of "L'homme arme" (very popular medieval melody.) There's always someone who will appreciate the extra layers, which balances out that other truth: there's always someone who will catch your every mistake! [/br]



For those who have the original harpers series printing, should it be around the same page?
Go to Top of Page

Bruce Donohue
Learned Scribe

Canada
94 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  00:24:03  Show Profile  Visit Bruce Donohue's Homepage  Send Bruce Donohue a Yahoo! Message Send Bruce Donohue a Private Message
Elaine, would you happen to know what's Bran's (not sure if it is Bram, I always get mixed up) views are in regards to Khelben creating the Moonstars?

Elaine, if you were ever asked to collaborate, because of your background of music and history, what elements would you put into a design of a Bardic College?

1. Would Bardic Colleges have outdoor amphitheatres (a la Greeks) or indoor ones?

2. How would a Bardic College differ in what it teaches from what the Clerics of Milil would do?

3. What would be typical types of classes offered in a Bardic College in the Realms?

4. Would a particular Bardic College be specialized in the form of training, much as either theatrical or musical in nature?

5. Would Bardic Colleges of the Realms resemble our own medieval history in terms of who could be admitted and how?

6. In regards to reputation, how would one graduate to various levels, and how would one College be considered the pinnacle over another College?

7. How would Elven instruction differ in mindset and messure of teaching as opposed to other races of Faerun, especially humans? After all I think you hinted in Elfsong, how Spellsong is a very unique talent, that is comes from within the heart, but curious as to how one is more powerful in its mastery than the other?
Go to Top of Page

Foxhelm
Senior Scribe

Canada
580 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  01:07:23  Show Profile  Click to see Foxhelm's MSN Messenger address  Send Foxhelm a Yahoo! Message Send Foxhelm a Private Message
Here's a quick few Questions...

1)If it was possible for you to guide your characters (any of the main characters you use) through a short (A week to a month) stay in our world, what would you want to show them? What do you think they would want to know about our world?

2)If you could share any music, from old pieces to modern music, with Danilo...what would they be?

Thanks.

Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems!
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26496 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  06:53:40  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

2)If you could share any music, from old pieces to modern music, with Danilo...what would they be?


I can see Danilo taking particular delight in groups/artists like Weird Al, the Barenaked Ladies, and Da Vinci's Notebook...

I'm not saying that that would be all he liked, but I imagine he would particularly appreciate them.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

1958 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  15:48:38  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BobROE

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham


I can save you a bit of time. The scene is actually in Elfsong, not Elfshadow, and it can be found on pages 280-281 of the Swords & Swords reprint. [/br]



For those who have the original harpers series printing, should it be around the same page?



Same page.
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

1958 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  15:53:49  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Donohue

Elaine, would you happen to know what's Bran's (not sure if it is Bram, I always get mixed up) views are in regards to Khelben creating the Moonstars?

Elaine, if you were ever asked to collaborate, because of your background of music and history, what elements would you put into a design of a Bardic College?

1. Would Bardic Colleges have outdoor amphitheatres (a la Greeks) or indoor ones?

2. How would a Bardic College differ in what it teaches from what the Clerics of Milil would do?

3. What would be typical types of classes offered in a Bardic College in the Realms?

4. Would a particular Bardic College be specialized in the form of training, much as either theatrical or musical in nature?

5. Would Bardic Colleges of the Realms resemble our own medieval history in terms of who could be admitted and how?

6. In regards to reputation, how would one graduate to various levels, and how would one College be considered the pinnacle over another College?

7. How would Elven instruction differ in mindset and messure of teaching as opposed to other races of Faerun, especially humans? After all I think you hinted in Elfsong, how Spellsong is a very unique talent, that is comes from within the heart, but curious as to how one is more powerful in its mastery than the other?




Bruce, even though this is a very interesting topic and one that is certainly dear to my heart, I'm going to have to pass on answering, since doing so involve an entire philosophy of bardcraft in the Realms. I'm not currently involved in this aspect of FR, not as a writer and certainly not as a game designer. As I've said before, it is extremely unlikely that I'll ever write FR game product. Also, there's a quartet of bard novels in the works. I am not involved in the process -- I don't even know who's writing -- and I don't want to say anything that might step on someone's toes down the time.

Bran's view on the Moonstars is another topic I have to leave alone, for fear of stepping on other writers' toes. In this, I'm assuming that WotC will eventually get around to telling Khelben's story.
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

1958 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  16:04:29  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

Here's a quick few Questions...

1)If it was possible for you to guide your characters (any of the main characters you use) through a short (A week to a month) stay in our world, what would you want to show them? What do you think they would want to know about our world?

2)If you could share any music, from old pieces to modern music, with Danilo...what would they be?



1) Interesting question. I'll have to think about that.

2) What immediately comes to mind is a vivid dream I had after attending a performance of Mozart's "Marriage of Figaro." Danilo and Arilyn somehow teleported into the middle of a performance. Arilyn's response was "whom do I have to kill to get out of here?" bemusement, but Dan was quite taken with the whole idea, entering into the fun and doing all of his lines in recitative. Very odd dream. But yes, I think Danilo would appreciate Mozart's comic opera, especially Figaro and The Magic Flute.

Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 03 Apr 2004 23:57:20
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

1958 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  16:13:29  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

2)If you could share any music, from old pieces to modern music, with Danilo...what would they be?


I can see Danilo taking particular delight in groups/artists like Weird Al, the Barenaked Ladies, and Da Vinci's Notebook...

I'm not saying that that would be all he liked, but I imagine he would particularly appreciate them.



Can't say I agree here. Weird Al does parodies, which are amusing only if you have the cultural framework to understand what is being parodied. I'm reminded of my brother-in-law's response to P.D.Q. Bach, a fictitious "black sheep" son of the famous J.S. Bach and a long-running schtick perpetrated by one Peter Schikele, a musicologist. The in-law's bewildered response was, "There was this beautiful music, and then all of a sudden someone rang a cow bell.. . " Danilo, similarly, would be completely at sea when it came to such references as "getting medieval on your hiney."

As for the other groups, bear in mind that Danilo had a rigorous "classical" music education, starting at an early age, and studying with the best bards Lady Cassandra's money could hire. I doubt he would gravitate toward the light and fluffy, though he would appreciate the occasional bawdy tune. He would probably find Mozart a kindred spirit, and he'd appreciate the role that the best of "movie music" plays. He'd probably like R&B much more than jazz, and could appreciate certain types of rock, pop, and club music, primarily as a background for dancing.
Go to Top of Page

SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  16:48:03  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
Elaine Cunningham:

I have a question regarding Evermeet: Island of Elves. My question goes back to one of the reasons Danilo gave at the book's opening for his research. His personal reason that he gives is of course his love for Arilyn. Thus, I was wondering, how did the half-elf Moonblade bearer take this gift when presented to her. Touched? Amazed at Danilo's work? I speculate there were a myriad of emotions, but was wondering if you had ever thought about how she felt receiving the final product of his work.

Thank you in advance for any time spent replying to this and past questions.

SB
Go to Top of Page

Bruce Donohue
Learned Scribe

Canada
94 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  18:27:37  Show Profile  Visit Bruce Donohue's Homepage  Send Bruce Donohue a Yahoo! Message Send Bruce Donohue a Private Message
Thanks Elaine for answering my questions, it is much appreciated.
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

1958 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  23:42:31  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

Elaine Cunningham:

I have a question regarding Evermeet: Island of Elves. My question goes back to one of the reasons Danilo gave at the book's opening for his research. His personal reason that he gives is of course his love for Arilyn. Thus, I was wondering, how did the half-elf Moonblade bearer take this gift when presented to her. Touched? Amazed at Danilo's work? I speculate there were a myriad of emotions, but was wondering if you had ever thought about how she felt receiving the final product of his work.


She hasn't received it yet.

In the Epilogue, Khelben thanked Danilo for sending him the manuscript for review and mentioned that he was sending it to an elven scribe -- and that Danilo shouldn't expect it back any time soon.

Part of the backstory -- stuff not included in the novel -- is an agreement Danilo had with Khelben and with some of the elven contributors that no one would see the manuscript or know of its contents until it received certain approvals. This collection of stories contains several revelations about the Moonflower family that Arilyn will find exceedingly interesting -- for example, it'll be news to her that she has a half-brother. I suspect that when she finally gets the manuscript, she'll be a little unhappy with Dan for holding back this information for so long. But she understands the concept of honoring your word once it's given, and she'll no doubt get over it.

An even more interesting question is how Elaith will react when he learns he has a son -- and than, when he learns that Danilo has been aware of the hidden prince's existence since 1371.
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

1958 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  23:54:39  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Donohue

Thanks Elaine for answering my questions, it is much appreciated.


Unfortunately, I can't always answer questions, especially those that require "what if" speculation, or imaginative extrapolations of existing lore. Ed Greenwood can spin out pages of previously unpublished Realmslore, but there's a big difference: it's his world. Whatever he says is "canon." In this, he is unique among FR writers.

As a freelance writer playing in someone else's sandbox, I am very careful not to add to the lore without the express permission and oversight of WotC. "Publishing" material based in the Realms, even on a message board, veers too close to copyright infringement for my peace of mind. And it's simply not professional for a freelancer working in a shared world to go off on unauthorized tangents.

If I were an editor or game designer with WotC, and if it came to my attention that one of the freelancer writers was creating a lot of unauthorized details about the Realms and publishing these details in a public forum, I'd be pissed -- and rightly so.
Go to Top of Page

Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4372 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2004 :  02:01:59  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Donohue

Elaine, would you happen to know what's Bran's (not sure if it is Bram, I always get mixed up) views are in regards to Khelben creating the Moonstars?

Elaine, if you were ever asked to collaborate, because of your background of music and history, what elements would you put into a design of a Bardic College?

1. Would Bardic Colleges have outdoor amphitheatres (a la Greeks) or indoor ones?

2. How would a Bardic College differ in what it teaches from what the Clerics of Milil would do?

3. What would be typical types of classes offered in a Bardic College in the Realms?

4. Would a particular Bardic College be specialized in the form of training, much as either theatrical or musical in nature?

5. Would Bardic Colleges of the Realms resemble our own medieval history in terms of who could be admitted and how?

6. In regards to reputation, how would one graduate to various levels, and how would one College be considered the pinnacle over another College?

7. How would Elven instruction differ in mindset and messure of teaching as opposed to other races of Faerun, especially humans? After all I think you hinted in Elfsong, how Spellsong is a very unique talent, that is comes from within the heart, but curious as to how one is more powerful in its mastery than the other?




Im not Elaine but ill give it a shot

1) Probably depends on the Bard College, the Ultrumms music conservatory in Silverymoon has an open air concert area (See page 10 of ElfSong)

2) A Cleric of Milli would get taught alot of religious dogma that a bard wouldnt neccessarily get taught

3)History and music

4) Possably but I suspect they would all teach the same thing only the furthur up the colledge heirarchy you went the better the teachers and the more powerful the bard songs you'd learn

5)Not sure, the Bard colledges are however a heiarchy you couldnt attend one unless you'd attended all the ones before it in gaming terms you couldnt attend a certain colledge unless you had reached levvel X as a bard

6)As I said the colleges are rated in a certain order

Below is an extract from the 1ed Players hand book for the bard

Level xp College
1st (Probationer)
2nd Fochlucan
3rd Fochlucan
4th Fochlucan
5th MacFuirmidh
6th MacFuirmidh
7th MacFuirmidh
8th Doss
9th Doss
10th Doss
11th Canaith
12th Canaith
13th Canaith
14th Cli
15th Cli
16th Cli
17th Anstruth
18th Anstruth
19th Anstruth
20th Ollamh
21st Ollamh
22nd Ollamh
23rd Magna Alumnae

7) In my opinion the Elves probably dont have Colleges its more likely they have a one on one relationship ie a Teacher and a Apprentice (maybe a couple of apprentices) a relationship similar to Wizards and there Apprentices, of cause since the destruction of the Bard Colleges in the aftermath of the time of troubles its likely all bards since 1358 have been taught in this fashion.

If you want to read more about Bards I suggest you read the Yellow silk (it features a bard trained in the Master and apprentice way) and Finders Bane (which features a Bard trained at the college in Berdusk ie a "school enviroment")

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26496 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2004 :  02:15:37  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham



Part of the backstory -- stuff not included in the novel -- is an agreement Danilo had with Khelben and with some of the elven contributors that no one would see the manuscript or know of its contents until it received certain approvals. This collection of stories contains several revelations about the Moonflower family that Arilyn will find exceedingly interesting -- for example, it'll be news to her that she has a half-brother. I suspect that when she finally gets the manuscript, she'll be a little unhappy with Dan for holding back this information for so long. But she understands the concept of honoring your word once it's given, and she'll no doubt get over it.

An even more interesting question is how Elaith will react when he learns he has a son -- and than, when he learns that Danilo has been aware of the hidden prince's existence since 1371.



I'm particularly interested in the latter, myself...

Have you any plans, or know you of any plans, for those two events to be revealed?

And have you any info on Elaith's son, or is that something you can't share or simply didn't worry about?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2004 :  06:08:35  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
She hasn't received it yet.



Ah, understood and thank you for these wonderful details....

quote:

An even more interesting question is how Elaith will react when he learns he has a son -- and than, when he learns that Danilo has been aware of the hidden prince's existence since 1371.



Can someone have their elf-friend status revoked? Because, when Elaith hears this news, I don't think he will be happy at all with Danilo. Moreover, let me speculate on something else...Speaking of this son, you write in Evermeet: Island of Elves.

quote:
The babe was born into the hands of a human



Can I guess who this human might have been? Without revealing anything, am I warm a bit in thinking that it might be someone Elaith knows from his past and doesn't like?

So, right after he begins to feel angry with Danilo, I wonder how Elaith will feel towards this person or Prince Lamruil. Both of these figures kept the secret even longer than Danilo.

Sounds like a great deal of tension in store for everyone involved...yes?

Love to see this written how.....
Go to Top of Page

Bruce Donohue
Learned Scribe

Canada
94 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2004 :  08:16:54  Show Profile  Visit Bruce Donohue's Homepage  Send Bruce Donohue a Yahoo! Message Send Bruce Donohue a Private Message
Thanks Elaine, I understood, and there were no hard feelings whatsoever. I appreciated that you told me that you couldn't mention anything or make a comment,and the words of thanks were indeed sincere ones without any sarcasm. In regards to the questions I asked, I thought that I would share with you, what Ed, mentioned. I think you will like the section he talks about Humans, Elves and Spellsong.

Hi, Bruce. Bardic colleges in the Realms have been addressed in this thread before, but your questions neatly avoid already-discussed topics, so let’s have a go:

1. Indoor, and often soundproofed by magic or by being underground and having long, “crazy dogleg” entry passages. The intent is not to enrage neighbors or embarrass performers, but to allow many bards to practice at once without disturbing anyone (except perhaps their tutor or someone they’re performing with). So many colleges have teaching rooms, lounges, living quarters, meeting rooms, kitchen facilities and pantries, instrument storage rooms, and a lone performance hall with galleries aboveground, and a radiating network of performance chambers belowground.

2. Everything varies from college to college, and from tutor to tutor. In general, the lower order colleges concentrate on hearing pitch, timbre, and nuance, singing scales and being able to precisely duplicate an overheard note or tune with the voice, mimicry of other voices and bird and animal calls, and then in memorization of certain ‘stock’ tunes and perfecting the ability to perform them on a limited range of instruments (recorder, lute, harp) and transpose them into different keys. All students are taught to make and repair a particular sort of instrument.
Higher order colleges add instruments and greatly expand the memorized repertoire, adding translations into other tongues (so that a graduate who doesn’t know language X at all can still perform a particular song in language X with perfect, non-accented pronunciation, understanding, and nuance), the histories of tunes and alternative lyrics (and why certain lands or towns or rulers frown on, or approve of, specific wordings), and so on. As students progress, they begin to be taught how to teach others well, and are instructed in how to make and repair an ever-expanding variety of instruments.

3. I’ve just covered the topics addressed in bardic colleges in the previous answer, and only the greenest students are taught in large groups, in organized classes; the whole point of bardic colleges is that there’s a lot of one-on-one or one-on-two-or-three instruction, senior students are encouraged to ‘fool around musically’ with younger ones (so they can learn by exploration), and so on.

4. Yes, bardic colleges specialize in what they teach and what instruments they make, but this varies more with the individual instructors practising at a college at a given time, than it does by college policy. As a result, non-bards won’t tend to rank, for example, a lute from one college as worth more or being finer than a lute from another college. They DO rank “this lute by Tholomon Candras, from the time when he was at . . .” over “that lute by Andrath Melonder, repaired by divers hands, from his early days at . . .”

5. Not much. Someone showing up at the door of a bardic college who was already making a living by performing might well already be known (by reputation, at least) to the masters of the college (both genders are usually called “masters,” by the way: lord masters and lady masters). However, any recognition would not be revealed; all would-be students are auditioned by at least one visible and one invisible (hearing, but not seen) master; only in cases where they disagree on admission will other auditions be necessary. Colleges sell instruments and sheet music, and take at least half the gate at any public performances put on by college students (such occasions are rare). Colleges guarantee elaborate funerals and burials for patrons (of any race, species, faith, and profession, not just musicians) who endow them with sufficient funds, and undertake commissions (usually for rulers) to compose music, so student fees tend to be tied to the ability of a student to pay (high fees aren’t used as a barrier, but cartloads of coins can’t be used to bribe one’s way in).

6. Again, colleges can be ranked against each other by reputation, but in the Realms I’ve never adhered to the 1st Edition ‘bard character level corresponds to specific college entry and tutoring’ rules. Student graduation is: when one is ready. One college is ranked over another purely by opinion, which will vary sharply from individual to individual. To outsiders, there’s simply no way to truly measure which has the “best” training or instructors, or the most talented pupils.

7. In the original Realms, many human and half-elf females were of a class called “spellsingers,” who could dance and sing in circles with other spellsingers (usually around a fire or other central focus) to combine and work magic too powerful for an individual spellsinger to cast. Spellsingers eventually found their ways into print in various forms, but as with elven “spellsong,” the ability to spellsing is an unborn talent rather than something one can acquire by instruction. Instruction serves to develop the talent, giving those possessing it control over it, and a greater scope and strength in its use.

Elven instruction inevitably builds in much more history, and nuances of emotion (mainly sadness and melancholy) are ‘built into’ how a note is shaped as it is sung, providing memory spurs to listeners, and actually ‘tags’ or footholds to elves who work magic that brings forth three-dimensional illusory images, so that a spellsong can be accompanied by a shifting ‘movie’ of animated images, one melting into the next.

Elves can reach higher notes than most humans without tone becoming thin or strangled or going sharp or flat, and can also hold notes longer, and their musical instruction is designed to develop these abilities. Certain elves can even produce a second ‘ghost’ voice echoing their primary vocalization, without any need for magic (so, for instance, an elf could sing, “’Twas in the early gloaming mist, that first I saw thy dancing fair,” and as he sang the word “first,” could faintly sing again “gloaming mist” simultaneously with “I saw thy”), and instruction develops this power, and the dronesong (whistle and hum simultaneously; many humans can do this, too, but proper instruction turns it into a finely-finished, controlled singing voice), AND the more-common-than-ghost-voice ability to split tone on a single held note, so as to create a chord with oneself (allowing a lone singer to, say, end a song with a rich, full-throated chord).

Elves typically understand more of the history of a tune, and its variants and various lyrics, than all but the most accomplished human bards.

Go to Top of Page

Bruce Donohue
Learned Scribe

Canada
94 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2004 :  08:42:39  Show Profile  Visit Bruce Donohue's Homepage  Send Bruce Donohue a Yahoo! Message Send Bruce Donohue a Private Message
quote:
Woolet wrote: Can I guess who this human might have been? Without revealing anything, am I warm a bit in thinking that it might be someone Elaith knows from his past and doesn't like?

So, right after he begins to feel angry with Danilo, I wonder how Elaith will feel towards this person or Prince Lamruil. Both of these figures kept the secret even longer than Danilo.

Sounds like a great deal of tension in store for everyone involved...yes?

Love to see this written how.....


Well this is just my opinion, but delivered into human hands, well that would be Bran. Amnestria after what Elaith did and his departure form Evermeet, wanted nothing to do with Elaith and of course never wanted to have Elaith know. As it mentions in Evermeet: Island of Elves, she traveled Toril with Bran and than had the child, only to later than settle in Evereska.

The book doesn't hint where Bran might be. If I am guessing the age of Elaith's child correctly, he would be still in adolescence in the way Elves judge the passing of time. This is just my guess but once Danilo tells Arilyn, and of course when Arilyn comes to grips with having a brother and forgiving Danilo, she will on her own tell Danilo that Elaith should be told.

Her sense of honor would compell her to do that. Why, well my guess would be because she herself knows what it is like not having knowledge of a parent, what missing out of a loving bond of a parent truly means to a child even if that child has become an adult. As adults we can appreciate the finer points of what our parents tried to teach us. Having seen Elaith with his daughter, the devotion and love he has for her, I don't think that she would deny Elaith the possibility of getting to know of a son he had no knowledge ever existed.

Then there is the side of Arilyn that will want to get to know her brother, get to tell him what his mother was like from her point of view. I am guessing that either she will accompany Danilo to tell Elaith, or that she herself will tell Elaith. She will explain to Elaith, in such a way that only another of truly Elven Mindset can explain. Then of course Arilyn will want to tell her brother of the Moonsword, teach him about his heritage and what it means to have a Moonsword. Than when seem deems that he is ready, she will without a shadow of a doubt name him her next blade heir.

Once the family reunion on Toril is complete, I guessing and very much hoping that there will be a family reunion of sorts. A reunion between, Elaith, Arilyn, her brother, Queen Amlaruil, and his only surving uncle Lamruil. Will this be held on Evermeet, I am guessing that it should. Where they will discuss this new family dynamic. What Queen Amlaruil does afterwards with her Grandchild is a whole other story. One could take a stab in the dark corcerning possiblities, but the most probable one is to try and groom Elaith's son in his royal duties and future Monarch.
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31255 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2004 :  14:56:39  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

2) What immediately comes to mind is a vivid dream I had after attending a performance of Mozart's "Marriage of Figaro." Danilo and Arilyn somehow teleported into the middle of a performance. Arilyn's response was "whom do I have to kill to get out of here?" bemusement, but Dan was quite taken with the whole idea, entering into the fun and doing all of his lines in recitative. Very odd dream. But yes, I think Danilo would appreciate Mozart's comic opera, especially Figaro and The Magic Flute.


Actually, I would think that Die Entfuehrung aus dem Serail--the Abduction from the Seraglio--would be more Danilo's style. It was one of Mozart's first operatic hits, and received performances all over Europe, even if the emperor did think it contained too many notes.

It's full of exoticism, romance, and suspense. It takes us on the mysterious Orient Express en route from Istanbul to Paris. Two women captured against their will must fight off the advances of their gentlemen captors while they await rescue by their lovers. Will poison, vendettas, and jealousy keep these lovers together or tear them apart? I could just see a young Danilo rushing off, in search of the missing women and rescuing them from their captors...



On a side note, I once had a strange dream (the very same night that I first heard Mozart's The Requiem in full) about the rumors surrounding Mozart at the time of his death, and how at the time, many believed that the Italian composer, Antonio Salieri (1750-1825) was responsible. Anyway, Danilo suddenly popped up in this dream, and carried out the very investigation himself (taking the place of the chief constable in charge of the investigation [I forget his name]) that was recorded in the now famous Salzburg archives...

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

1958 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2004 :  03:04:06  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
[quote]Actually, I would think that Die Entfuehrung aus dem Serail--the Abduction from the Seraglio--would be more Danilo's style. It was one of Mozart's first operatic hits, and received performances all over Europe, even if the emperor did think it contained too many notes.

It's full of exoticism, romance, and suspense. It takes us on the mysterious Orient Express en route from Istanbul to Paris. Two women captured against their will must fight off the advances of their gentlemen captors while they await rescue by their lovers. Will poison, vendettas, and jealousy keep these lovers together or tear them apart? I could just see a young Danilo rushing off, in search of the missing women and rescuing them from their captors...



On a side note, I once had a strange dream (the very same night that I first heard Mozart's The Requiem in full) about the rumors surrounding Mozart at the time of his death, and how at the time, many believed that the Italian composer, Antonio Salieri (1750-1825) was responsible. Anyway, Danilo suddenly popped up in this dream, and carried out the very investigation himself (taking the place of the chief constable in charge of the investigation [I forget his name]) that was recorded in the now famous Salzburg archives...




Now that there's two of us exhibiting these symptoms, do we get a syndrome name?

I've never been crazy about Seraglio, but yeah, Danilo would probably like it. As for the "too many notes" bit, his philosophy trends more toward Mae West's: "Too much of a good thing can be wonderful."

Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 05 Apr 2004 03:05:44
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 97 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2014 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000