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Finglas Leaflock
Seeker

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2005 :  17:56:16  Show Profile Send Finglas Leaflock a Private Message
quote:
I hope to answer this question in story form, so I'm reserving that info for the pages of a potential book.


Here's hoping that your optimism is rewarded, and we can see more of Elaith in print! For that matter, IMO, more Arilyn and Danilo couldn't hurt anyone, including those whose jobs depend on the financial success of the FR novels department (disclaimer: I have never seen any of their sales figures, research, or anything else, so I don't want to pretend to or give the impression that I know more than I do). I was kind of excited to see all three characters mentioned in the Waterdeep sourcebook--you never know, right?
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khorne
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1071 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2005 :  20:36:42  Show Profile  Visit khorne's Homepage  Click to see khorne's MSN Messenger address Send khorne a Private Message
I would be very happy if Morgalla came back. Her paintings were funny(and very accurate) I shudder to think of what she would paint if she ever met Elminster, for example.

If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2005 :  04:37:03  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by khorne

I would be very happy if Morgalla came back. Her paintings were funny(and very accurate) I shudder to think of what she would paint if she ever met Elminster, for example.



Seconded. Morgalla was cute.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Adam_Garou
Seeker

USA
30 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2005 :  21:28:29  Show Profile  Visit Adam_Garou's Homepage Send Adam_Garou a Private Message
Elaine (if I may be so bold, having never posted on this scroll before),

I just finished reading EVERMEET: ISLAND of ELVES, and I would like to say that I greatly enjoyed the book. I'm sure it was quite a daunting task to chronicle so much Realmslore (legendary or otherwise) in a single novel, but I loved the way you depicted Evermeet. It's just the fae (for lack of a better word) realm I've always pictured--particularly with the "otherworldly" aspects I've always associated with the elves (dragon riders, giant eagle riders, centaurs, sprites, pixies, faerie dragons, treants, etc.). It's given me some excellent ideas for an elvish city I'm designing for my gaming group, and I'd like to say thanks for painting Evermeet's picture so vividly.

SPOILERS FOR ANY WHO HAVEN'T YET READ THE NOVEL: DISENGAGE NOW!!!

...

...

...

...


I also loved the way the waters were somewhat muddied in the whole "gold elves evil, moon/silver elves good" debate with the moon elf fighter journeying into the Abyss to save her lover (the priest of Labelas Enoreth--both of their names suddenly escape me) and thereby drawing Lloth's attention to Evermeet. That, and the gold elf who was so grateful to Amlaruil for making him her "hidden knight" rather than sending him away from the Towers when it became evident that he would never be a High Mage (the one who wouldn't learn the art of bladesong--IIRC--because he "wouldn't apprentice himself to a gray elf") that he became her willing servant.

On the whole, though (for this reader at least), the novel seemed to portray the moon elves in a nicer light than the golds. I certainly don't mean to imply that the golds are "worse" than the moon elves... just that the novel seemed to highlight more "nice-guy" moon elf individuals and more "arrogant jerk" gold elf individuals.

Was this an intentional goal of the story as you wrote it? Or was an editorial decision made by WotC to chop other material that might have presented a more "balanced" view of the gold elves and moon elves?

Thanks again for a great read--with work and all, it took a good three days to finish, but I consider it time well spent.

"If we do happen to make contact (with the enemy), I expect nothing less than gratuitous violence from the lot of you."

--Sgt. Harry Wells, DOG SOLDIERS--

Edited by - Adam_Garou on 14 Oct 2005 21:29:50
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2364 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2005 :  22:55:59  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Adam_Garou

I also loved the way the waters were somewhat muddied in the whole "gold elves evil, moon/silver elves good" debate with the moon elf fighter journeying into the Abyss to save her lover (the priest of Labelas Enoreth--both of their names suddenly escape me) and thereby drawing Lloth's attention to Evermeet.


Thanks for the kind words, and the above observation. I just love it when readers are properly attuned to irony! :)

quote:
That, and the gold elf who was so grateful to Amlaruil for making him her "hidden knight" rather than sending him away from the Towers when it became evident that he would never be a High Mage (the one who wouldn't learn the art of bladesong--IIRC--because he "wouldn't apprentice himself to a gray elf") that he became her willing servant.

On the whole, though (for this reader at least), the novel seemed to portray the moon elves in a nicer light than the golds. I certainly don't mean to imply that the golds are "worse" than the moon elves... just that the novel seemed to highlight more "nice-guy" moon elf individuals and more "arrogant jerk" gold elf individuals.

Was this an intentional goal of the story as you wrote it? Or was an editorial decision made by WotC to chop other material that might have presented a more "balanced" view of the gold elves and moon elves?


Every story is shaped by the narrative point of view. The narrator here was Danilo Thann, and he was preparing a history of Evermeet's elves as a gift for Arilyn. Her family, who are moon elves, are at the center of the story. Had the tale been told from another point of view, the tone might have been quite different.

Frankly, though, there are enough gold elf heroes and not-so-nice moon elves (Zaor's first queen, for example, and her brother) to discredit the notion of moon elf GOOD, gold elf BAD. I see ALL elves as flawed and fascinating beings. :)
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Adam_Garou
Seeker

USA
30 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2005 :  23:24:24  Show Profile  Visit Adam_Garou's Homepage Send Adam_Garou a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Thanks for the kind words, and the above observation. I just love it when readers are properly attuned to irony! :)


Well, the fact that a moon elf seer stated that the moonblades would choose a king for Evermeet--and that that king MUST be a moon elf--is another taste of irony. The fact that the process by which the king would be chosen is often fatal is another.

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Every story is shaped by the narrative point of view. The narrator here was Danilo Thann, and he was preparing a history of Evermeet's elves as a gift for Arilyn. Her family, who are moon elves, are at the center of the story. Had the tale been told from another point of view, the tone might have been quite different.

Frankly, though, there are enough gold elf heroes and not-so-nice moon elves (Zaor's first queen, for example, and her brother) to discredit the notion of moon elf GOOD, gold elf BAD. I see ALL elves as flawed and fascinating beings. :)



*smacks forehead* Well, so much for really being "attuned" to the story. Can't believe that slipped my mind (Danilo putting the tale together for Arilyn, who's half moon-elf) Let's all say it together, kids--"duh!".

Yes--when I read the scene of the conversation between Amlaruil and Lydia'aina (sp?) and the queen is bartering Zaor's life for the potions (not to mention later when she and her brother hatch the plan to ensure that she gives Zaor an "heir")... well, I wanted to reach through the pages and strangle them. If that reaction--or something similar--is what you were going for, I'd say you achieved it.

I also enjoyed the way you portrayed Kymil as someone who is honestly shocked that Lloth and Ghaunadaur would take an interest in his plans against Evermeet. I've seen too many of the "evil for evil's sake" characters in fiction (and roleplaying, for that matter), and I always love it when an author can capture the fact that a character who is evil and is DOING evil rarely if ever THINKS they're evil.

Anyway, as I said, thanks for a wonderful read.

And don't worry, I know there are plenty of individual elves that buck the stereotype. I haven't forgotten the Elaith Craulnober is a moon elf as well.

"If we do happen to make contact (with the enemy), I expect nothing less than gratuitous violence from the lot of you."

--Sgt. Harry Wells, DOG SOLDIERS--
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2005 :  14:33:37  Show Profile  Click to see Crennen FaerieBane's MSN Messenger address Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message
Mrs. Cunningham,

I have a rather quick question - in Evermeet, when you have the original Moonflower talk to the Drow Wizard that Lolth digs, and the Wizard says that when two elven races meet, the child comes out one or the other, where is the reference for that?

I know it is used throughout the Realms, I was just wondering if you happened to know offhand?

Thanks!
C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2364 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2005 :  14:40:06  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane

I have a rather quick question - in Evermeet, when you have the original Moonflower talk to the Drow Wizard that Lolth digs, and the Wizard says that when two elven races meet, the child comes out one or the other, where is the reference for that?

I know it is used throughout the Realms, I was just wondering if you happened to know offhand?



The first mention of this rule of elven genetics is the second edition Forgotten Realms boxed set, also known as "the gray box."

I assume that this was a convention made with gamers in mind, to do away with the need to figure out racial modifiers for elves who were half this, half that.
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2005 :  14:43:50  Show Profile  Click to see Crennen FaerieBane's MSN Messenger address Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message
Thanks! I appreciate the quick answer! I had always wondered where that tidbit of information was.

Plus, having children of two different racial backgrounds makes for some interesting situations!

Thanks!
C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2005 :  17:30:05  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane

I have a rather quick question - in Evermeet, when you have the original Moonflower talk to the Drow Wizard that Lolth digs, and the Wizard says that when two elven races meet, the child comes out one or the other, where is the reference for that?

I know it is used throughout the Realms, I was just wondering if you happened to know offhand?



The first mention of this rule of elven genetics is the second edition Forgotten Realms boxed set, also known as "the gray box."

I assume that this was a convention made with gamers in mind, to do away with the need to figure out racial modifiers for elves who were half this, half that.




Not to nit pick but the old grey box is 1e. :) But it can also be found in 2e's campaign box set and Races of Faerun.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32875 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2005 :  02:29:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
Elaine, a quick question... I just picked up a Johnny Cash CD. One of the tunes on there was "A Boy Named Sue". I was wondering: Does this song have anything to do with how Jill the dwarf got his name?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2364 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2005 :  12:49:12  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Not to nit pick but the old grey box is 1e. :) But it can also be found in 2e's campaign box set and Races of Faerun.


Yep, you're right. I tend to blank out the fact that I've been around since first edition.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2364 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2005 :  12:58:50  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Elaine, a quick question... I just picked up a Johnny Cash CD. One of the tunes on there was "A Boy Named Sue". I was wondering: Does this song have anything to do with how Jill the dwarf got his name?



Funny you should ask that today, as just yesterday I attended a wedding reception at which this particular ballad was played. The DJ's play list was, to say the least, ecclectic.

But yes, this song did inspire, if I may use the term loosely, the character Jill. My father was a big country and western fan--traditional, not pop crossover--and I grew up with Johnny Cash, Tennessee Ernie Ford, Chet Atkins, and the rest.
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2005 :  16:57:45  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Not to nit pick but the old grey box is 1e. :) But it can also be found in 2e's campaign box set and Races of Faerun.


Yep, you're right. I tend to blank out the fact that I've been around since first edition.




I don't blame you for doing so but just think, you've entertained many of us since 1e as well. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2364 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2005 :  14:49:34  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Not to nit pick but the old grey box is 1e. :) But it can also be found in 2e's campaign box set and Races of Faerun.


Yep, you're right. I tend to blank out the fact that I've been around since first edition.




I don't blame you for doing so but just think, you've entertained many of us since 1e as well. :)



True enough, but take the average age at which people discover fantasy books, add the number of years I've been writing in the Realms, and the resulting numbers would suggest that I was born during Prohibition. :)
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2005 :  15:57:42  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

True enough, but take the average age at which people discover fantasy books, add the number of years I've been writing in the Realms, and the resulting numbers would suggest that I was born during Prohibition. :)




:) Ah, well. True enough, true enough.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2005 :  13:56:04  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message
Vendui Elaine!

Here's a question with regards to Evermeet. There has been a long standing debate between a fellow WizBoarder and myself about a line in the named book - yes we are a bit weird, of course - referring to Lolth and her one-time consort.

From the 1999 paperback edition Chapter 10, p. 175 ...
There was new territory to conquer, new magic to learn. The descendants of Ka'Narlist and Lloth were now called drow, and they were as evil and fearsome a people as Lloth could have desired.

The word that our debate revolves about is "descendants" and I would like to know whether you were referring to the dark elves / drow in general here (as both Lolth and the wizards were dark elves and as such "forefathers/-mothers" of the drow), or "true descendants" of the two named characters, if they ever had some (?) ? Did I say we are a bit weird?

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

G a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faern, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.

Edited by - Zanan on 02 Nov 2005 13:57:28
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2364 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2005 :  17:55:59  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan

Vendui Elaine!

Here's a question with regards to Evermeet. There has been a long standing debate between a fellow WizBoarder and myself about a line in the named book - yes we are a bit weird, of course - referring to Lolth and her one-time consort.

From the 1999 paperback edition Chapter 10, p. 175 ...
There was new territory to conquer, new magic to learn. The descendants of Ka'Narlist and Lloth were now called drow, and they were as evil and fearsome a people as Lloth could have desired.

The word that our debate revolves about is "descendants" and I would like to know whether you were referring to the dark elves / drow in general here (as both Lolth and the wizards were dark elves and as such "forefathers/-mothers" of the drow), or "true descendants" of the two named characters, if they ever had some (?) ? Did I say we are a bit weird?



The line you quoted was speaking metaphorically, in the same manner as Christians use when they refer to themselves as "sons and daughters of God." Those dark elves who follow in the footsteps of an evil goddess or an evil necromancer are, in a spiritual sense, their descendants.

Greek mythology abounds in characters born of divine/human pairings, but this doesn't seem to be common in the Realms.

So, who won the argument? :)
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Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2005 :  22:41:25  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
So, who won the argument? :)



Me, I have to admit.* Though honestly, I don't think of it as a win, rather a confirmation of my interpretation.

Thanks for the quick reply,

Zanan!

*As in: I was assuming the same metaphorical use of the word.

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

G a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faern, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.

Edited by - Zanan on 02 Nov 2005 22:44:38
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2005 :  02:27:18  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message
Elaine,

This poster has been asking after this and I was wondering if you knew of any more lore about it. :) If you don't want to comment, then I'll go ask Ed. :)

"In Dreamspheres there is mention of the 'Two City Consortium' where several noble families, including Thann are part of etc. I been trying to find more info on the subject of which noble families are members, and what is the goals overall focus etc..."

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2364 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2005 :  02:52:11  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

Elaine,

This poster has been asking after this and I was wondering if you knew of any more lore about it. :) If you don't want to comment, then I'll go ask Ed. :)

"In Dreamspheres there is mention of the 'Two City Consortium' where several noble families, including Thann are part of etc. I been trying to find more info on the subject of which noble families are members, and what is the goals overall focus etc..."



There are many secret alliances in Waterdeep, and not all of them have been documented. The two-city consortium was "revealed" in DREAM SPHERES, so you won't find it in previous source books or novels, and I don't believe it has been written about since. You may find a bit of info in the recent City of Splendors game product. I read the manuscript when it was not quite in final form, and at that time I didn't see any mention, but I can't vouch for the final version. But I suspect that this is one of those many aspects of Waterdeep that have not yet been brought to light.

The above paragraph is for general consuption, and may be quoted elsewhere. To the Candlekeep folk I'll admit that I'd love to revisit this notion. I have an interesting social history entitled The Criminal Underworld of Medieval London, and I think it'd be great fun to revisit Waterdeep from a similar point of view. In fact, "Two Cities" would be a great title for a book--a sort of "Upstairs, Downstairs" of Waterdeep crime, encompassing both the trade in Skullport and the nobles who profit from it. I'd be very tempted to tell it from the point of view of my favorite elven crime lord, but then, I'm always looking for an excuse to tell an Elaith story. :)
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2005 :  04:24:18  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message
My thanks Elaine. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8553 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2005 :  22:46:45  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message
Not sure if you remember me from AOL days. Thank you for finally returning to Rashemen with Liriel. Its been probably a year(?) since I read the book, but I really liked your treatment of the spirits. I just picked up the Waterdeep book you just did with Ed, but am working to find time to read it... however, I'm hoping they have you put out more material.
After reading the Simbul's gift where there was introduced an entirely new leader of Thay that all the zulkirs would fear and need to answer too <sheesh, that was screwed up>... anyway, it was good to see someone stick to canon material. Thank you for the many great novels.

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2364 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2005 :  19:04:04  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Not sure if you remember me from AOL days. Thank you for finally returning to Rashemen with Liriel. Its been probably a year(?) since I read the book, but I really liked your treatment of the spirits. I just picked up the Waterdeep book you just did with Ed, but am working to find time to read it... however, I'm hoping they have you put out more material.
After reading the Simbul's gift where there was introduced an entirely new leader of Thay that all the zulkirs would fear and need to answer too <sheesh, that was screwed up>... anyway, it was good to see someone stick to canon material. Thank you for the many great novels.

Phillip aka Sleyvas




Sleyvas! Good to hear from you again. How long has it been since the TSR forum on AOL folded? By now it must be close to ten years. Yikes.

The Rashemen part of WINDWALKER was hard to write, for personal reasons, but there's a tremendous sense of homecoming for me in a Slavic setting. Glad to hear you enjoyed the story!
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe

USA
476 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2005 :  00:15:34  Show Profile  Visit Sanishiver's Homepage Send Sanishiver a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
In fact, "Two Cities" would be a great title for a book--a sort of "Upstairs, Downstairs" of Waterdeep crime, encompassing both the trade in Skullport and the nobles who profit from it. I'd be very tempted to tell it from the point of view of my favorite elven crime lord, but then, I'm always looking for an excuse to tell an Elaith story. :)
Not only would this be a fantastic Waterdeep book (and a great Skullport tie-in, should WotC ever do another sourcebook on the place), but it'd be a great 'world in motion' resource for DMs looking to developed Waterdeep's criminal underworld for their own campaigns.

I've had great success using yours and Ed's material from the Waterdeep novel in my campaign; I'm sure a similar novel would be just as useful.

Thanks Elaine!

J. Grenemyer

09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldnt believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.

Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.

And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene
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