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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Apr 2004 : 08:07:05
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| Why, thank you, Lady Cunningham. I'd not come across this before. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2004 : 10:36:19
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Indeed, 'tis a wonderful find . . . Thankyou Great Lady . . . 
I must tell the Sage, I'm sure he'd find this resource just as interesting.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2004 : 12:50:50
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News tidbit: I heard from Phil Athans yesterday that the anthology Realms of the Dragons will be out in September, rather than December as originally planned.
My story, "Gorlist's Dragon," was originally written with the intention of submitting it to DRAGON Magazine. But time ran short, the anthology story was due, and -- hey, look at this! A dragon story, almost finished, just sitting there in my short story file.
Anyway, I'd commissioned a portrait of Gorlist with the intention (I'm paving a lot of the proverbial downward-slanting road with these, it would seem...) of using it on my website as a promotion, and also as a possible interior illo if the story was accepted by the magazine. Plus, I really like Kay Allen's work and was curious to see how she would interpret the character. She really outdid herself here. Here's the link to the picture in her Realmsquest gallery. Enjoy!
http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=62579 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2004 : 16:45:15
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| Yes, you posted that link before; you'll likely be glad to know that on my hard drive, I now have a section labled "Art of Kay Allen." She really is quite talented . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2004 : 16:57:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Yes, you posted that link before . . .
Have I posted a link to this picture? Hmmm... (Note to self: increase dosage of ginko biloba...)
Anyway, Kay just posted this on her gallery. I've had it for a while, but it just "went public." The link will take you directly to the portrait of Gorlist. You can navigate to the rest of Kay's gallery from there, but I did a one-click link for folks who are short of time or slow of modem.  |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 23 Apr 2004 17:03:41 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2004 : 17:12:01
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Have I posted a link to this picture? Hmmm...
As much as I'd like to disagree and make Bookwyrm think he's getting forgetful,  I'm afraid you have posted it before. Feel free to continue to share it. It's a lovely picture and we are getting more and more new people to the site each day. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2004 : 17:24:59
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| Yes, you mentioned it in this post. It's not the exact same link, but it's the same picture. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2004 : 19:39:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Yes, you mentioned it in this post. It's not the exact same link, but it's the same picture.
Oops! 
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2004 : 23:53:46
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Anyway, I'd commissioned a portrait of Gorlist with the intention (I'm paving a lot of the proverbial downward-slanting road with these, it would seem...) of using it on my website as a promotion, and also as a possible interior illo if the story was accepted by the magazine. Plus, I really like Kay Allen's work and was curious to see how she would interpret the character. She really outdid herself here. Here's the link to the picture in her Realmsquest gallery. Enjoy!
Maybe it's me, but I found it really ironic that the WizO's closed your thread about this picture, that you posted over on the WOTC boards. Now even author's can't post links to your own characters that appear in your own WOTC novels. :)
Wonder if Bigsis gave you a warning Elaine, for breaking thier "novel" rules. :) 
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=226437 |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 24 Apr 2004 02:11:55 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 01:45:49
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Maybe it's me, but I found it really ironic that the WizO's closed your thread about this picture that you posted over on the WOTC boards. Now even author's can't post links to your own characters that appear in your own WOTC novels. :)
Wonder if Bigsis gave you a warning Elaine for breaking thier "novel" rules.
Actually, this one was my fault. I haven't been on the WotC boards for quite some time, and I didn't check before posting to see if the rules had changed. Last time I was there, it was deemed okay to mention a character from a novel, as long as you weren't discussing the novel itself. That rule has been more specifically defined: a character has to be an "iconic" NPC and must appear in both novels AND game supplements. I didn't know this when I posted. Since Gorlist has not appeared in a game supplement, posting a link to his portrait was ruled a violation of the no-novels rule as it is currently defined.
I would advise anyone posting on the WotC forums to first check for updated or redefined rules, rather than relying on the other posts to get the general "feel" for the current zeitgeist. There's a long forum thread of home-brewed stats for FR characters--including many that have ONLY appeared in novels. Since this was acceptable, it never occurred to me that posting a link to a portrait would be a violation.
No, I have not received a warning, but I did send a note apologizing for the post and asking that the offending thread be removed. It is not, nor has it ever been, my intention to subvert the WotC message threads, flout its rules, or bedevil WotC employees. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 24 Apr 2004 14:36:37 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 03:25:05
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Why would I want to? I've never felt an urge to join the WotC boards even before the influx of bad press. I'm certainly not going now!
Besides, that's a stupid rule. Only if the character's been stated . . . huh!  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 05:41:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Why would I want to? I've never felt an urge to join the WotC boards even before the influx of bad press. I'm certainly not going now!
Besides, that's a stupid rule. Only if the character's been stated . . . huh!
I don't even know what it was I said that got me banned. I went back to look at the thread so I could prove I'd not been talking about novels, and the entire thread had been deleted. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 06:23:17
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Oh, that's simple enough. If it ain't Krunchy, it ain't fun.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 12:29:54
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Last time I was there, it was deemed okay to mention a character from a novel, as long as you weren't discussing the novel itself. That rule has been more specifically defined: a character has to be an "iconic" NPC and must appear in both novels AND game supplements. I didn't know this when I posted.
I'm quoting you, but this is just a general plea for some enlightenment from anyone out there on this subject.
You didn't know this when you posted. How is anyone to know this when posting. Not the rule per say, but which characters have been in a novel and a game supplement? Is there a list? Because I guarantee you that most WOTC message posters are not that knowledgeable about every character they wish to discuss. Moreover, is this just a 3rd ed. supplement? Or any edition? And does Dragon Magazine count as a supplement?
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 12:33:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Besides, that's a stupid rule. Only if the character's been stated . . . huh!
I hear for fourth edition the rule will be as follows: only if the character has been stated, an illustration done, and an appearance in one of the FR computer games, only than can a novel character be mentioned.
Even then the thread must contain the question can this novel character beat Drizzt or Elminster in a fight? |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 14:29:59
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I'm quoting you, but this is just a general plea for some enlightenment from anyone out there on this subject.
You didn't know this when you posted. How is anyone to know this when posting. Not the rule per say, but which characters have been in a novel and a game supplement? Is there a list? Because I guarantee you that most WOTC message posters are not that knowledgeable about every character they wish to discuss. Moreover, is this just a 3rd ed. supplement? Or any edition? And does Dragon Magazine count as a supplement?
Excellent questions. As time goes on, more will probably arise.
The decision to close the novels forum was handed down from WotC, and the rules are likewise imposed from on high. Since this isn't really a clean-cut situation, no one can anticipate all the questions and situations that will come up. I'm assuming WotC has to adjust the rules as new problems surface.
And yes, this will probably lead to the occasional inconsistency, such as allowing readers to stat out characters that only appear in novels, but not allowing a link to a picture of a character who only appeared in novels. That said, I hope they don't remove the stat thread, since the folks participating seem to be having a good time with it, and since some gamers may enjoy having these novel characters available as NPCs for their campaigns.
To borrow an analogy from real life, shutting the novels thread is more like dieting than quitting smoking. When you stop smoking, you stop altogether. The boundaries are very clear. With dieting, there are matters of degree. You can't stop eating entirely, but you have to find a balance. The folks who administer the WotC forums have the unenviable task of seeking that balalance, and explaining it to people who may have very different definitions of what an "acceptable diet" entails.
As a personal favor, could we discontinue this discussion in my thread? I responded to Kuje's post in an attempt to forestall indignation by admitting I was at fault, but I don't want this to turn into an anti-WotC diatribe. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 14:50:58
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Yes, I have to agree. I stopped reading this thread mainly because of the chatter about the WotC-Novels Forum issue . . . 
Maybe Alaundo can remove those posts dealing with the above named issue, and place them in their own thread so that those interested in further discussion can continue without causing too much interuption here.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 16:51:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
Maybe Alaundo can remove those posts dealing with the above named issue, and place them in their own thread so that those interested in further discussion can continue without causing too much interuption here.
Probably not necessary--there really aren't that many posts. A simple change of topic should suffice.
Let me toss one out and see if anyone nibbles: Would you be interested in reading a "caper story" set in the Realms? Think in terms of recent movies such as "The Italian Job" and the remake of "Ocean's Eleven."
My first FR book was a mystery in a fantasy setting. That suited the characters involved. Recently I was talking with my husband about my desire to write a book focusing on Elaith Craulnober. He suggested a caper novel, and that struck me as exactly the right sort of plot for this character, especially if he were pitted against a really worthy opponent. A caper story would allow Elaith to strut his stuff, it has room for the sort of moral relativism that defines Elaith's decision-making process, and it could have larger, hidden, more personal stakes that would provide interesting opportunities for character development.
Offhand, I can't think of any FR books that have used this particular plot type. Any comments or observations? |
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Proc
Acolyte
Canada
32 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 17:41:20
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The Rogues Series of novels had some elements of a caper story. Especially The Black Bouquet by Richard Lee Byers. It dealt with several factions all after a single item, with the usual backstabbing, kidnapping and trickery that followed.
There hasn't really been a novel (at least I that I have heard of) dealing with a group of like minded rogues all trying to steal something with an elaborate and cunning plan, like they depict in The Italian Job or Ocean's Eleven. In any case, there haven't been all that many rogue centered novels set in the Realms period...
I think most people on the boards are itching to read an Elaith novel, and a caper story set in a large and diverse city like Waterdeep would be a great backdrop. |
"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin |
Edited by - Proc on 24 Apr 2004 17:42:06 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 17:50:09
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Let me toss one out and see if anyone nibbles: Would you be interested in reading a "caper story" set in the Realms? Think in terms of recent movies such as "The Italian Job" and the remake of "Ocean's Eleven."
My first FR book was a mystery in a fantasy setting. That suited the characters involved. Recently I was talking with my husband about my desire to write a book focusing on Elaith Craulnober. He suggested a caper novel, and that struck me as exactly the right sort of plot for this character, especially if he were pitted against a really worthy opponent. A caper story would allow Elaith to strut his stuff, it has room for the sort of moral relativism that defines Elaith's decision-making process, and it could have larger, hidden, more personal stakes that would provide interesting opportunities for character development.
Offhand, I can't think of any FR books that have used this particular plot type. Any comments or observations?
Man, I would love to read a story like that! In fact, it's something that's been nibbling away at the back of my mind since the last time I watched The Italian Job. A good caper is a lot of fun, but that's something that I've not seen happen in fantasy...
I think that an Elaith caper would make for an excellent story, and it'd be great to see inside his head. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 18:59:57
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Elaine, I'm afraid I still don't think an Elaith Craulnobur novel would be a good idea, for the yore-discussed reasons that he's a mysterious villain -- especially in 3rd person limited omniscient (a wonderful stance but grossly overused). But a short story or long story caper-tale could well work.
(As for 'most people', as always on messageboards (at least without polls) there's no way to know, especially as most people don't post.) |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 21:03:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Elaine, I'm afraid I still don't think an Elaith Craulnobur novel would be a good idea, for the yore-discussed reasons that he's a mysterious villain -- especially in 3rd person limited omniscient (a wonderful stance but grossly overused). But a short story or long story caper-tale could well work.
I understand your viewpoint, and have had that concern myself; in fact, that's why the notion of a caper story appeals. It would allow a villian to strut his struff, without revealing much about his background or larger thought processes.
Your POV observation is also well taken. Such a tale would almost certainly work better if Elaith were observed, rather than making the observations. A Watson character might provide the needed distance.
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Xullrae Zauviir
Acolyte
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 22:19:24
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My aplogies on changing the subject, I thought this would be the thread to ask in but I went to your site Elaine and noticed it's not been updated since December 5th 2003. First I thought I was at the wrong site, perhaps I was.
Here is my question: Has Windwalker came out in paperback yet? I don't want to order online if I don't have to.
Evermeet is still my favorite book by you! |
Live spelled backwards is evil. Doesn't that mean that there is a measure of evil in everyone? Perhaps it was the god's hidden joke, but why are you scoffing that I admit I'm evil? At least I'm not slaughtering innocents and saying it's good and right. No matter how you look at it, it's still murder and therefore evil. Deep down, you are no better than I am. The only difference is that I may lie to others, but not to myself! ~Xull'rae Zauviir |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 23:09:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Xullrae Zauviir
My aplogies on changing the subject, I thought this would be the thread to ask in but I went to your site Elaine and noticed it's not been updated since December 5th 2003. First I thought I was at the wrong site, perhaps I was.
Here is my question: Has Windwalker came out in paperback yet? I don't want to order online if I don't have to.
Yep, that's the right site, and no, it hasn't been updated since December 5. My computer crashed shortly after that point, and I ended up buying a new unit. I didn't install the software for FrontPage, since I intend to rebuild my site using DreamWeaver--as soon as projects on deadline are turned in. As a result, even minor updates have had to wait.
Regarding projects-in-progress, Ed Greenwood and I are in the home stretch on the Waterdeep book, my non-FR book just came back from the copyeditor, and corrected galleys for the FR anthology story went back to the publisher last week. Things are looking up. I'm starting new projects in May (two books and a short story, none of them set in the Realms), but will be working part time on website construction. Looking forward to it!
I'm not sure about the release date for the paperback of Windwalker. Some sources say April, some May. Since April's almost over, I'm betting on the latter. Sorry I couldn't be more specific! |
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Xullrae Zauviir
Acolyte
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2004 : 23:38:02
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No that's fine, I'll keep my eye on the bookstores then.
Looking forward to your book with Greenwood and the site updates. I'm guessing you'll be putting your portrait from Kay on there?
Gotta show off right lol! 
Thanks for the response it was helpful and cleared up my confusion! |
Live spelled backwards is evil. Doesn't that mean that there is a measure of evil in everyone? Perhaps it was the god's hidden joke, but why are you scoffing that I admit I'm evil? At least I'm not slaughtering innocents and saying it's good and right. No matter how you look at it, it's still murder and therefore evil. Deep down, you are no better than I am. The only difference is that I may lie to others, but not to myself! ~Xull'rae Zauviir |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2004 : 02:20:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Xullrae Zauviir
Here is my question: Has Windwalker came out in paperback yet? I don't want to order online if I don't have to.
I picked it up yesterday at my local (Melbourne, FL) Barnes & Noble, so it is indeed out in paperback!
Too bad it'll be a while before I can get to it... I'm working my way thru the Fafhrd and Gray Mouser books right now. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2004 : 04:09:27
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Elaine, I'm afraid I still don't think an Elaith Craulnobur novel would be a good idea, for the yore-discussed reasons that he's a mysterious villain -- especially in 3rd person limited omniscient (a wonderful stance but grossly overused). But a short story or long story caper-tale could well work.
I understand your viewpoint, and have had that concern myself; in fact, that's why the notion of a caper story appeals. It would allow a villian to strut his struff, without revealing much about his background or larger thought processes.
Your POV observation is also well taken. Such a tale would almost certainly work better if Elaith were observed, rather than making the observations. A Watson character might provide the needed distance.
Hi Elaine. Yes, I should be busy doing something else, but here I am procrastinating.
When you first asked this question, my response was, "Nah. Caper novel might touch on some fun stuff for Elaith, but I'd rather see him in a revenge story (ala PAYBACK) or torn between his old life and new (ala Elmore Leonard's OUT OF SIGHT)."
Then again, that may just be me.
The standard caper novel for Waterdeep--A Day in Undermountain.
The Ultimate caper novel for Waterdeep--The Short-Sheeting of Blackstaff Tower! 
Procrastinator Lad of the Legion of Substitute Writers |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Xullrae Zauviir
Acolyte
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2004 : 04:57:28
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| Thanks wooly that info was much appreciated! |
Live spelled backwards is evil. Doesn't that mean that there is a measure of evil in everyone? Perhaps it was the god's hidden joke, but why are you scoffing that I admit I'm evil? At least I'm not slaughtering innocents and saying it's good and right. No matter how you look at it, it's still murder and therefore evil. Deep down, you are no better than I am. The only difference is that I may lie to others, but not to myself! ~Xull'rae Zauviir |
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Finglas Leaflock
Acolyte
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2004 : 05:57:45
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I think a caper type of novel about Elaith could be a lot of fun--and I find myself getting cautiously psyched that maybe Wizards would go for it, since it's a different type of book for them compared to what's been done before. Of course, I'd be thrilled to see them agree to publish any book with Elaith, Arilyn, or Danilo featured in main roles. (Hope that didn't sound too fanboy-ish, I'm too old to be a fanboy! But I really, really like the Songs and Swords series, can't help that )
Now, I don't want to bash WotC, since I enjoy so much of what they come out with on both the novel side and the game side. But, while I understand that the book department at Wizards wants to keep exploring new characters and regions, it's hard to get why they seem to only want new characters. It's cool to get to read about new, interesting characters like Erevis Cale and Thazienne from the Sembia books, or Tzigone and company from the Halruaa books, but sometimes it'd be nice to see something new about established players such as Arilyn and friends (loosely including Elaith under "friends"). So I guess what I'm trying to say is, good luck with the proposal, my fingers are crossed, and I hope that the editors like the idea as much as I do. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2004 : 06:22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Let me toss one out and see if anyone nibbles: Would you be interested in reading a "caper story" set in the Realms? Think in terms of recent movies such as "The Italian Job" and the remake of "Ocean's Eleven."
Decent movies for the genre they were in. Any ideas on your Charlize Theron or Julia Roberts character?
quote:
Recently I was talking with my husband about my desire to write a book focusing on Elaith Craulnober. He suggested a caper novel, and that struck me as exactly the right sort of plot for this character, especially if he were pitted against a really worthy opponent. A caper story would allow Elaith to strut his stuff, it has room for the sort of moral relativism that defines Elaith's decision-making process, and it could have larger, hidden, more personal stakes that would provide interesting opportunities for character development.
I can only speak for myself and two others in the household who read your novels. Yes, such a tale featuring character development would be very eagerly anticipated and purchased as soon as it came out. I love characters like Elaith, ones that I cannot accurately perdict their course of action on every given situation.
quote:
Offhand, I can't think of any FR books that have used this particular plot type. Any comments or observations?
Not so much as a caper, but a similar character to me is Paul Kemp's Cale. I enjoy watching that character investigate matters when he's unleashed on Sembia or the rest of Faerun.
Personal stakes for Elaith? From someone he once knew in the past or someone he hasn't even met yet?
Good luck with this possible project. |
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Questions for Elaine Cunningham
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