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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
564 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Jan 2014 : 14:23:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Madpig
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Cadderly is far from being the most powerfull cleric ever. Please provide us with a citation that says he can cast every existing spell (I doubt there is one).
It would be rather strange that a lesser deity can provide one of his choosen with a far more powerfull ability then every major deity (even the godess of magic) ever has.
Source was that writeup earlier in this scroll.
Which is a fan write up, and not anywhere near canon. Not saying it's wrong or that I know everything.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Denier is the god of knowledge, therefore he knows and can grant ALL spells ever devised?
This sounds like a question that is above my pay grade.  |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1602 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2014 : 15:20:58
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Actually, Oghma is the god of knowledge, Deneir is the god of glyphs and literacy (but is one of the 'gods of knowledge' under Oghma).
I think, from a canon point of view, Cadderly could cast every cleric/druid spell (at least those not unique to other faiths). I don't recall him casting any wizard spells in the novels (let alone psionics). He has a powerful mind, is clearly (IMO) a Chosen of Deneir, and is certainly ONE of the most powerful priests ever...but there are contenders for THE most powerful priest ever. I don't think Cadderly is a clear-cut owner of that position. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1372 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2014 : 16:18:15
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One thing I've always been curious about, we have people like the Simbul and the Srinshee (who is supposedly 54th level if i recall right or maybe that's the Simbul, I honestly forget), but we haven't ever seen a priest higher than 30th I believe. I wonder if Ed has some characters squirreled away that addresses this. Or, do divine casters usually not get that high of a level for some reason we don't yet know?
I do remember the 2E Underdark book referencing Lolth generally doesn't let her priests get higher than 22nd level or so, rewarding them with either divine advancement or destruction around that power level. Maybe it holds the same with other deities? |
Edited by - Eilserus on 27 Jan 2014 16:19:46 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1602 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2014 : 16:29:39
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| I seem to recall Ed addressing that question Eilserus and saying that most priests who gain that much power are 'taken' by their deity for work beyond the mortal world. Basically, the deity sees this powerful agent of their's and says 'I have more important work for you than tending my flock...let such endeavors rest on other shoulders now.' Said priest is then used in whatever fashion the god needs. Mayhaps they are transformed into another creature (I believe the yochlol are former Llothite priestesses of some power, for instance) or are made into holy artifacts, there is no limit but imagination. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1372 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2014 : 17:22:43
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| Makes sense, I remember Quenthel Baenre was made into a Yochlol after Drizzt gutted her in Siege of Darkness. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1113 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2014 : 18:08:53
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I imagine the really powerful priets become divine proxys of some sort like the ones you got in Planescape - tasked with dealing with emissaries of enemy gods and fiends/celestials on the most hostile of planes.
As for Yochlols, Quenthel never became one. She studied at the feet of Lolth for a while but I don't ever recall reading that she became a yochlol. Yochlols were allegedly succubi who were appropriated from other demon lords and transformed by Lolth for her own purposes. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1372 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2014 : 18:39:04
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| Quenthel was the Yochlol that Shakti met in the Abyss in Elaine Cunningham's novel Windwalker. And then returned from the Abyss with her to Menzoberranzan and House Baenre, in a soul bubble. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1113 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2014 : 19:25:48
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| Ah. I never got around to reading Windwalker. For some reason I never got far into Tangled Webs. My copies of Tangled Webs and Windwalker are around here somewhere...I really need a decent set of shelves. Books shouldn't be kept in drawers. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com |
Edited by - hashimashadoo on 27 Jan 2014 19:26:19 |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
523 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2014 : 20:46:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I mean in game terms,
As in his game stats?
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
he could cast any cleric spell on the fly, on top of all of his other abilities.
Yet by his game stats that means only 80 levels of spells, that gives him an edge in high level slots, but less than ordinary clerics combined 5th - 7th level slots
That's what Heroes Lorebook said about his official 2e game stats. |
Edited by - Mirtek on 27 Jan 2014 20:49:28 |
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Seravin
Senior Scribe
Canada
805 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2014 : 21:15:18
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You'd think that more Chosen would be priests.
I always liked Salvarad, the highest ranking priest in the Cult of the Dragon who got spells from Cyric and Shar. He was level 20 back in 2nd edition days and quoted as being "one of the most powerful forces for evil in the Dragonreach" back in the Forgotten Realms Adventures book; I wonder what became of him.
On topic, Cadderly was powerful not the most powerful priest in the Forgotten Realms.
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
509 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2014 : 00:47:39
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Actually, Oghma is the god of knowledge, Deneir is the god of glyphs and literacy (but is one of the 'gods of knowledge' under Oghma).
I think, from a canon point of view, Cadderly could cast every cleric/druid spell (at least those not unique to other faiths). I don't recall him casting any wizard spells in the novels (let alone psionics). He has a powerful mind, is clearly (IMO) a Chosen of Deneir, and is certainly ONE of the most powerful priests ever...but there are contenders for THE most powerful priest ever. I don't think Cadderly is a clear-cut owner of that position.
What about the spel he casted to Shrink the Dragon? I don't recall any Cleric spell that could do that.... |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1602 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2014 : 01:11:02
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| True. I would say a Miracle spell but that didn't exist in 2e. Perhaps he can cast arcane spells then. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4337 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2014 : 01:16:25
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| There was either in 1st or 2nd, or was it BD&D that a high level Cleric could cast arcane spells (up to maybe level 5 or 5 magic user spells). I just though could not find a quick reference to it. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2014 : 05:01:40
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| Cadderly didn't shrink the dragon.he stole the dragon's age. And that was a spell in the second eddition tome of magic source book. |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
509 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2014 : 06:44:46
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quote:
Originally posted by jerrod
Cadderly didn't shrink the dragon.he stole the dragon's age. And that was a spell in the second eddition tome of magic source book.
Divine magic or Wizardly? |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2014 : 12:42:00
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| Well since knowledge is power and Cadderly had access to an potentially infinite amount of knowledge I would say he is certainly one of the most versatile and powerful priests that I have ever read about. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
30988 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2014 : 12:49:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Well since knowledge is power and Cadderly had access to an potentially infinite amount of knowledge I would say he is certainly one of the most versatile and powerful priests that I have ever read about.
Having access to something is not the same as possessing it. Even with access to all knowledge, there is only so much the mind can handle and process. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2014 : 12:14:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Well since knowledge is power and Cadderly had access to an potentially infinite amount of knowledge I would say he is certainly one of the most versatile and powerful priests that I have ever read about.
Having access to something is not the same as possessing it. Even with access to all knowledge, there is only so much the mind can handle and process.
Thats true but just having access to pertinent information and spells during a battle can change its outcome. Also it can save your life when you are injured lost in some strangle pace or poisoned etc.
Having access to this sort of information is what makes Cadderly such a versatile and powerful cleric. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
30988 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2014 : 16:38:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Well since knowledge is power and Cadderly had access to an potentially infinite amount of knowledge I would say he is certainly one of the most versatile and powerful priests that I have ever read about.
Having access to something is not the same as possessing it. Even with access to all knowledge, there is only so much the mind can handle and process.
Thats true but just having access to pertinent information and spells during a battle can change its outcome. Also it can save your life when you are injured lost in some strangle pace or poisoned etc.
Having access to this sort of information is what makes Cadderly such a versatile and powerful cleric.
I'll not argue that, but as I said, access to information isn't the same as having it... And it doesn't guarantee being able to act on it.
For example, Cadderly may suddenly find himself in battle with the evil wizard Malbad. Malbad throws his custom spell Power Word: F U! at Cadderly.
Assuming Cadderly has instantaneous access to all knowledge (and I don't know that his access is instantaneous), he may recognize the spell and know that the only way to survive it is to be wearing the Warm Boot of Frobozz. But that knowledge does him no good if he doesn't have the Boot right then, because the spell is already en route and will do many rather unpleasant things to him when it hits in 2 seconds.
If the access to the knowledge isn't instantaneous, he's just as screwed.
Access to knowledge can be useful, but it's not necessarily going to be usable when needed. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
801 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2014 : 01:37:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Well since knowledge is power and Cadderly had access to an potentially infinite amount of knowledge I would say he is certainly one of the most versatile and powerful priests that I have ever read about.
Potentially infinite amount.
In Servant of the Shard, Cadderly bluff Kimmuriel at the end by allowing him a brief glimpse of his mind.
When K withdraws, Cadderly gulps and thanks Deneir that the drow bought it because "He had not prepared any spells for fighting Drow that day, only dragons" and he knows he would have lost.
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Madpig
Learned Scribe
Finland
131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2014 : 06:06:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Well since knowledge is power and Cadderly had access to an potentially infinite amount of knowledge I would say he is certainly one of the most versatile and powerful priests that I have ever read about.
Potentially infinite amount.
In Servant of the Shard, Cadderly bluff Kimmuriel at the end by allowing him a brief glimpse of his mind.
When K withdraws, Cadderly gulps and thanks Deneir that the drow bought it because "He had not prepared any spells for fighting Drow that day, only dragons" and he knows he would have lost.
Thats the quote I was searching for earlier in this scroll. |
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sleyvas
Great Reader
USA
6930 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2014 : 12:31:42
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| Earlier in this scroll, it stated Cadderly could cast his spells as a spontaneous caster. Later, I'm seeing people say he had to prepare his spells. I admit to only reading the first 3 books, so in those Cadderly wasn't all that high level. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2014 : 14:05:54
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There is a bit of a contradiction as to how cadderly accesses his powers. I guess it could be relative. Cadderly uses the song of deneir to cast his spells. In theory he should just be able to find the right spell and cast it fairly quickly (as in the cleric books). Maybe the more complicated spells are harder to find in the song? I don't like that explanation though. I just put it down to bob making an error.
If any priest has access to virtually every spell then he must surely rank amongst the very top of his creed. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
542 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2014 : 14:51:57
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Deneir believes that the metatext contains all information, but that doesn't have to be true and even if it is, Deneir is only studying it so he could only provide information through his song if he allready aquired it by himself.
But even then its very hard for mortals to comprehend the information given by the song of deneir and many of his priest died while diving to deep into it, so Cadderly could die too if he tries to hard.
As said before its very hard to believe that a lesser deity can give his follower far more power then major ones can. |
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Light
Learned Scribe
Australia
231 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2014 : 15:23:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
For example, Cadderly may suddenly find himself in battle with the evil wizard Malbad. Malbad throws his custom spell Power Word: F U! at Cadderly.
Assuming Cadderly has instantaneous access to all knowledge (and I don't know that his access is instantaneous), he may recognize the spell and know that the only way to survive it is to be wearing the Warm Boot of Frobozz. But that knowledge does him no good if he doesn't have the Boot right then, because the spell is already en route and will do many rather unpleasant things to him when it hits in 2 seconds.
10/10 |
"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga) |
Edited by - Light on 30 Jan 2014 15:23:59 |
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Cadderly Bonaduce is the most powerful cleric ever
