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 Cadderly Bonaduce is the most powerful cleric ever
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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
550 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2014 :  14:23:06  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Madpig

quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_

Cadderly is far from being the most powerfull cleric ever. Please provide us with a citation that says he can cast every existing spell (I doubt there is one).
It would be rather strange that a lesser deity can provide one of his choosen with a far more powerfull ability then every major deity (even the godess of magic) ever has.



Source was that writeup earlier in this scroll.




Which is a fan write up, and not anywhere near canon. Not saying it's wrong or that I know everything.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Denier is the god of knowledge, therefore he knows and can grant ALL spells ever devised?

This sounds like a question that is above my pay grade.
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 27 Jan 2014 :  15:20:58  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually, Oghma is the god of knowledge, Deneir is the god of glyphs and literacy (but is one of the 'gods of knowledge' under Oghma).

I think, from a canon point of view, Cadderly could cast every cleric/druid spell (at least those not unique to other faiths). I don't recall him casting any wizard spells in the novels (let alone psionics). He has a powerful mind, is clearly (IMO) a Chosen of Deneir, and is certainly ONE of the most powerful priests ever...but there are contenders for THE most powerful priest ever. I don't think Cadderly is a clear-cut owner of that position.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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Eilserus
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1366 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2014 :  16:18:15  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing I've always been curious about, we have people like the Simbul and the Srinshee (who is supposedly 54th level if i recall right or maybe that's the Simbul, I honestly forget), but we haven't ever seen a priest higher than 30th I believe. I wonder if Ed has some characters squirreled away that addresses this. Or, do divine casters usually not get that high of a level for some reason we don't yet know?

I do remember the 2E Underdark book referencing Lolth generally doesn't let her priests get higher than 22nd level or so, rewarding them with either divine advancement or destruction around that power level. Maybe it holds the same with other deities?

Edited by - Eilserus on 27 Jan 2014 16:19:46
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1589 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2014 :  16:29:39  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I seem to recall Ed addressing that question Eilserus and saying that most priests who gain that much power are 'taken' by their deity for work beyond the mortal world. Basically, the deity sees this powerful agent of their's and says 'I have more important work for you than tending my flock...let such endeavors rest on other shoulders now.' Said priest is then used in whatever fashion the god needs. Mayhaps they are transformed into another creature (I believe the yochlol are former Llothite priestesses of some power, for instance) or are made into holy artifacts, there is no limit but imagination.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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Eilserus
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Posted - 27 Jan 2014 :  17:22:43  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Makes sense, I remember Quenthel Baenre was made into a Yochlol after Drizzt gutted her in Siege of Darkness.
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
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Posted - 27 Jan 2014 :  18:08:53  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I imagine the really powerful priets become divine proxys of some sort like the ones you got in Planescape - tasked with dealing with emissaries of enemy gods and fiends/celestials on the most hostile of planes.

As for Yochlols, Quenthel never became one. She studied at the feet of Lolth for a while but I don't ever recall reading that she became a yochlol. Yochlols were allegedly succubi who were appropriated from other demon lords and transformed by Lolth for her own purposes.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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Eilserus
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Posted - 27 Jan 2014 :  18:39:04  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Quenthel was the Yochlol that Shakti met in the Abyss in Elaine Cunningham's novel Windwalker. And then returned from the Abyss with her to Menzoberranzan and House Baenre, in a soul bubble.
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hashimashadoo
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 27 Jan 2014 :  19:25:48  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah. I never got around to reading Windwalker. For some reason I never got far into Tangled Webs. My copies of Tangled Webs and Windwalker are around here somewhere...I really need a decent set of shelves. Books shouldn't be kept in drawers.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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Edited by - hashimashadoo on 27 Jan 2014 19:26:19
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Mirtek
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Posted - 27 Jan 2014 :  20:46:46  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

I mean in game terms,
As in his game stats?
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

he could cast any cleric spell on the fly, on top of all of his other abilities.
Yet by his game stats that means only 80 levels of spells, that gives him an edge in high level slots, but less than ordinary clerics combined 5th - 7th level slots

That's what Heroes Lorebook said about his official 2e game stats.

Edited by - Mirtek on 27 Jan 2014 20:49:28
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Seravin
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Canada
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Posted - 27 Jan 2014 :  21:15:18  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You'd think that more Chosen would be priests.

I always liked Salvarad, the highest ranking priest in the Cult of the Dragon who got spells from Cyric and Shar. He was level 20 back in 2nd edition days and quoted as being "one of the most powerful forces for evil in the Dragonreach" back in the Forgotten Realms Adventures book; I wonder what became of him.

On topic, Cadderly was powerful not the most powerful priest in the Forgotten Realms.
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jordanz
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Posted - 28 Jan 2014 :  00:47:39  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Actually, Oghma is the god of knowledge, Deneir is the god of glyphs and literacy (but is one of the 'gods of knowledge' under Oghma).

I think, from a canon point of view, Cadderly could cast every cleric/druid spell (at least those not unique to other faiths). I don't recall him casting any wizard spells in the novels (let alone psionics). He has a powerful mind, is clearly (IMO) a Chosen of Deneir, and is certainly ONE of the most powerful priests ever...but there are contenders for THE most powerful priest ever. I don't think Cadderly is a clear-cut owner of that position.



What about the spel he casted to Shrink the Dragon? I don't recall any Cleric spell that could do that....
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The Arcanamach
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Posted - 28 Jan 2014 :  01:11:02  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
True. I would say a Miracle spell but that didn't exist in 2e. Perhaps he can cast arcane spells then.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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Kentinal
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4304 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2014 :  01:16:25  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There was either in 1st or 2nd, or was it BD&D that a high level Cleric could cast arcane spells (up to maybe level 5 or 5 magic user spells). I just though could not find a quick reference to it.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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jerrod
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Posted - 28 Jan 2014 :  05:01:40  Show Profile Send jerrod a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cadderly didn't shrink the dragon.he stole the dragon's age. And that was a spell in the second eddition tome of magic source book.

I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic
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jordanz
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Posted - 28 Jan 2014 :  06:44:46  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jerrod

Cadderly didn't shrink the dragon.he stole the dragon's age. And that was a spell in the second eddition tome of magic source book.




Divine magic or Wizardly?
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2014 :  12:42:00  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well since knowledge is power and Cadderly had access to an potentially infinite amount of knowledge I would say he is certainly one of the most versatile and powerful priests that I have ever read about.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 28 Jan 2014 :  12:49:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Well since knowledge is power and Cadderly had access to an potentially infinite amount of knowledge I would say he is certainly one of the most versatile and powerful priests that I have ever read about.



Having access to something is not the same as possessing it. Even with access to all knowledge, there is only so much the mind can handle and process.

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Thauranil
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Posted - 29 Jan 2014 :  12:14:31  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Well since knowledge is power and Cadderly had access to an potentially infinite amount of knowledge I would say he is certainly one of the most versatile and powerful priests that I have ever read about.



Having access to something is not the same as possessing it. Even with access to all knowledge, there is only so much the mind can handle and process.



Thats true but just having access to pertinent information and spells during a battle can change its outcome. Also it can save your life when you are injured lost in some strangle pace or poisoned etc.
Having access to this sort of information is what makes Cadderly such a versatile and powerful cleric.
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 29 Jan 2014 :  16:38:18  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Well since knowledge is power and Cadderly had access to an potentially infinite amount of knowledge I would say he is certainly one of the most versatile and powerful priests that I have ever read about.



Having access to something is not the same as possessing it. Even with access to all knowledge, there is only so much the mind can handle and process.



Thats true but just having access to pertinent information and spells during a battle can change its outcome. Also it can save your life when you are injured lost in some strangle pace or poisoned etc.
Having access to this sort of information is what makes Cadderly such a versatile and powerful cleric.



I'll not argue that, but as I said, access to information isn't the same as having it... And it doesn't guarantee being able to act on it.

For example, Cadderly may suddenly find himself in battle with the evil wizard Malbad. Malbad throws his custom spell Power Word: F U! at Cadderly.

Assuming Cadderly has instantaneous access to all knowledge (and I don't know that his access is instantaneous), he may recognize the spell and know that the only way to survive it is to be wearing the Warm Boot of Frobozz. But that knowledge does him no good if he doesn't have the Boot right then, because the spell is already en route and will do many rather unpleasant things to him when it hits in 2 seconds.

If the access to the knowledge isn't instantaneous, he's just as screwed.

Access to knowledge can be useful, but it's not necessarily going to be usable when needed.

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Firestorm
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Canada
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Posted - 30 Jan 2014 :  01:37:53  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Well since knowledge is power and Cadderly had access to an potentially infinite amount of knowledge I would say he is certainly one of the most versatile and powerful priests that I have ever read about.


Potentially infinite amount.

In Servant of the Shard, Cadderly bluff Kimmuriel at the end by allowing him a brief glimpse of his mind.

When K withdraws, Cadderly gulps and thanks Deneir that the drow bought it because "He had not prepared any spells for fighting Drow that day, only dragons" and he knows he would have lost.

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Madpig
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Finland
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Posted - 30 Jan 2014 :  06:06:07  Show Profile Send Madpig a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Well since knowledge is power and Cadderly had access to an potentially infinite amount of knowledge I would say he is certainly one of the most versatile and powerful priests that I have ever read about.


Potentially infinite amount.

In Servant of the Shard, Cadderly bluff Kimmuriel at the end by allowing him a brief glimpse of his mind.

When K withdraws, Cadderly gulps and thanks Deneir that the drow bought it because "He had not prepared any spells for fighting Drow that day, only dragons" and he knows he would have lost.





Thats the quote I was searching for earlier in this scroll.
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sleyvas
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Posted - 30 Jan 2014 :  12:31:42  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Earlier in this scroll, it stated Cadderly could cast his spells as a spontaneous caster. Later, I'm seeing people say he had to prepare his spells. I admit to only reading the first 3 books, so in those Cadderly wasn't all that high level.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Arcanus
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485 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2014 :  14:05:54  Show Profile  Visit Arcanus's Homepage Send Arcanus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is a bit of a contradiction as to how cadderly accesses his powers. I guess it could be relative. Cadderly uses the song of deneir to cast his spells. In theory he should just be able to find the right spell and cast it fairly quickly (as in the cleric books). Maybe the more complicated spells are harder to find in the song? I don't like that explanation though. I just put it down to bob making an error.
If any priest has access to virtually every spell then he must surely rank amongst the very top of his creed.
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_Jarlaxle_
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Germany
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Posted - 30 Jan 2014 :  14:51:57  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Deneir believes that the metatext contains all information, but that doesn't have to be true and even if it is, Deneir is only studying it so he could only provide information through his song if he allready aquired it by himself.
But even then its very hard for mortals to comprehend the information given by the song of deneir and many of his priest died while diving to deep into it, so Cadderly could die too if he tries to hard.

As said before its very hard to believe that a lesser deity can give his follower far more power then major ones can.
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Light
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Australia
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Posted - 30 Jan 2014 :  15:23:12  Show Profile Send Light a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
For example, Cadderly may suddenly find himself in battle with the evil wizard Malbad. Malbad throws his custom spell Power Word: F U! at Cadderly.

Assuming Cadderly has instantaneous access to all knowledge (and I don't know that his access is instantaneous), he may recognize the spell and know that the only way to survive it is to be wearing the Warm Boot of Frobozz. But that knowledge does him no good if he doesn't have the Boot right then, because the spell is already en route and will do many rather unpleasant things to him when it hits in 2 seconds.


10/10

"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga)

Edited by - Light on 30 Jan 2014 15:23:59
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