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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 01:50:53
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| Oh, and on the dragon-worshipping barbarians in Viking Longships.... Anchorome transfer back from Abeir and many of the Northmen were subjugated? Or maybe we have barbarian dragonriders escorting those Viking longships |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 03:17:37
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quote:
Originally posted by ksu_bond
So how exactly a Mega Multi-Plateform D&D Storyline not a RSE?
Well, a storyline without long lasting effect upon the realms landscape, heroes, pantheons etc.. won't be considered a RSE necessarily. Are invasion attempts enought to be considered such? (Thayans, Drow, Orc etc..)
Did you guys consider Rise of the Underdark a RSE?
If not, what makes you consider Tyrant of Dragons would be another RSE?
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Yan
Playtester |
Edited by - Plaguescarred on 24 Jan 2014 03:24:55 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 04:18:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Plaguescarred
a storyline without long lasting effect upon the realms landscape, heroes, pantheons etc.
"Long-lasting" is subjective, but okay. Permanent effects should count as long-lasting, right? The TOT had permanent effects, but WotC ignored them... we suddenly had Cyric in place of Bane, Bhaal, Leira, and Myrkul; Mask was suddenly a simpering fool; Mystra suicided for no real reason and got reincarnated with an alignment adjustment; and we had a new Lord of the Dead... and WotC would have loved for us all to forget that it wasn't always that way. Permanent, but swept under the rug. The return of Shade had permanent effects, and forcibly derailed most/all canon-attached campaigns north of the Inner Sea. The Spellplague had permanent effects, but from the start WotC's attitude was that the Spellplague was no big deal because it was 100 years ago and barely affected anyone anymore so what are we so upset about, jeez. Except that the first two pages of the Campaign Guide included several impossible-to-ignore ways in which it was a BFD. In exactly the same ways (fiddling with the map and the pantheon, though hopefully fixing the previous mistakes this time) the Sundering will have permanent effects. In fact, given that the TOT and the Spellplague happened, the Sundering had better have permanent, equal, and opposite effects.
The whole thing is pretty subjective, really. Lolth disappearing for a few years, and then coming back, doesn't have "long-lasting" effects for humanity, nor does it affect the entire Realms... provided you ignore all the rational side effects of her silence. But it's certainly an RSE in a drow campaign.
For me, the definition of an RSE does not really have much to do with the time frame. It's about how much disruption is caused in my campaign, assuming that (1) my campaign includes the entire Realms because the PCs could potentially be any race/class and go anywhere, and (2) I keep my campaign as close to canon as possible. I've learned, over the years, to give less and less weight to canon, but if the canon was good I would be thrilled to use it.
tl;dr: an RSE is defined by the Shaking, not by whether the effects last a few years or a few decades.
Edit: page-number-checking myself. Technically the "Ten Important Facts" sidebar is on page 4-5, but they're the first two pages of the Introduction |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 24 Jan 2014 04:26:17 |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 04:21:58
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Too many "events". The Sundering hasn't fully landed yet. Next/5E is still months from hitting stores. WotC is cutting into the press for Next's release.
It's also D&D's 40th Anniversary, which should be a huge year-long celebration in itself. At a glance, I don't see a single mention on the site. The entire site should have gotten graphics to commemorate this year. Indeed there is evidence the first production copies were sold as early as January. Meaning the anniversary is already upon us.
So, right, go ahead and announce a generic pseudo-event happening later this year.
You've only got a cultural icon on your hands that's lasted four decades and changed the way people play games.
No big deal. |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 04:27:56
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A synopsis of The Rise of the Underdark:
"A massive new storyline will creepy-crawl across every aspect of the Dungeons & Dragons landscape this year, as the Demon Queen of Spiders and her drow minions rise from their underground domains to take on the surface world. Rise of the Underdark will impact D&D RPG books, organized play, novels, a new miniatures game and even D&D Online, the free-to-play MMORPG...Now that her drow are all finely honed weapons, Lolth is ready to take to the surface world. The timing couldn't be better. All arcane magic in the Forgotten Realms is drawn from Mystra, goddess of magic, but Mystra is dead. Lolth seeks to take her place. This means war."
Sounds familiar doesn't it...this time around we will get Dragons and Dragonkin instead of Drow, and Tiamat instead of Lolth...
So if neither of these don't constitute at least a NEAR RSE then many of the past RSE events weren't really Realms shattering either, but were in fact just Mega Multi-Platform D&D Storylines that only affected the FR platform...
Fortunately my concerns regarding the Tyranny of Dragons has little to do with whether it is referred to as a Mega Multi-Platform D&D Storyline or RSE, and everything to do with how it will be perceived by the fan base...a hoard of dragons -- large, powerful, magical creatures who individually can cause extensive chaos and destruction -- being led by an evil deity is more than just a minor problem and WILL create a MEGA disruption in Northwestern Faerun...hence why I referred to it as a NEAR RSE...but more importantly how many in the fan base will see this Mega Multi-Platform D&D Storyline in a similar, if not worse, light? Not to mention this will be occurring during another rule change, which has already rekindled the "edition" wars, and set a midst The Sundering.
I also seem to recall that the first Mega Multi-Platform D&D Storyline, Rise of the Underdark, didn't fair out so well--and it was released in relative isolation.
Perhaps it was thought that if a Monty Hall, or a kitchen-sink, approach was used to launch a new rules set this would help with it's success. But alas, we all know what happened the last time this approach was used and what affect it had.
Which is why I'm not judging the finished product before seeing it, but rather I'm expressing my concern that there may be "too many irons in the fire". So far WotC has given it's fan base very little information in regards to what the Realms will look like in 5e; meanwhile, they keep opening up doors with "prizes" behind them for us to oh and ah over, and failing to realize that while it is generating some positive buzz it is also creating apprehension and further fragmentation within their already fragmented fan base. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Dreamstalker
Acolyte
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 05:43:46
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| My hope is they take a timeline neutral approach to future RSEs. Basically set it up as a possible event to play whenever but stop moving forward the timeline. I doubt that will happen but there is always hope for the moment. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 06:24:07
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| Will they still publish novels? Yes?! AWESOME!!! |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 07:18:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Plaguescarred
Tyranny of Dragons sounds more like a mega multi-plateform D&D storyline than a Realms Shaking Event, much like Rise of the Underdark was IMO. http://www.wizards.com/DnD/drow.aspx
Exactly right. This sounds very much like Rise of the Underdark, which I figured would be an RSE because it involved the drow, who are FR's most popular villains. Yet and still, virtually nothing happened in that trilogy.
Although I can't make sense of the little that did happen. Apparently Mystra returned and helped stop Lolth from taking over the Weave. But the synopsis for "The Herald" makes it clear that Mystra is MIA. So she shows up to stop Lolth, but not Shar? |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 07:37:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Dreamstalker
My hope is they take a timeline neutral approach to future RSEs. Basically set it up as a possible event to play whenever but stop moving forward the timeline. I doubt that will happen but there is always hope for the moment.
That's not a bad idea, at least for some of them.
The Event provides the tools. Encounters like Dragon cultists, unique dragons, dragonslaying skills and gear, locations, towns, villains, some notes to adapt for different times and off your party goes.
By the way, here's Wizbro perspective (emphasis mine):
quote:
From: http://company.wizards.com/content/wizards-coast-reveals-tyranny-dragons
Wizards of the Coast Reveals Tyranny of Dragons
Players Take on Tiamat in Biggest Multi-platform Launch in D&D history
January 23, 2014 – Renton, WA – As announced by USA Today, Wizards of the Coast today revealed Tyranny of Dragons, a massive, action-packed storyline that will fuel Dungeons & Dragons entertainment experiences in 2014.
This year, D&D is pitting heroes everywhere against hordes of evil dragons led by the 5-headed queen of dragons, Tiamat. Through video games and mobile games, in-store play at local hobby stores, tabletop gaming and more, this year will be the biggest and most exciting in Dungeons & Dragons history.
A lot of this is the same language they used for the Sundering. The novels, modules, and product tie-ins for the Sundering seem to be doing pretty good, so this is more along the lines. Not in terms of RSE, but the multi-platform, highly integrated Event.
Also, this is a 2014 event, so it'll probably pick up right where Sundering leaves off. At three books in, we're about half way done with the Sundering.
All well and good. They have to make money selling stuff and they're putting marketing muscle behind bit. Though I feel they're going about it a bit backwards.
What is the main product of the WotC events?
The novels (like for the Sundering)? The modules? Video games? How far along are these games?
Hope they're not rushing things to keep the Sundering buzz going.
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 09:10:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
Although I can't make sense of the little that did happen. Apparently Mystra returned and helped stop Lolth from taking over the Weave. But the synopsis for "The Herald" makes it clear that Mystra is MIA. So she shows up to stop Lolth, but not Shar?
I don't know what happened in the LFR or RPGA or Encounters or whatever they run Rise of the Underdark through, but in DDO (the f2p MMO) Lolth was scouring Cormyr for the "Thread of the Weave" and the party with some tips form Elminster discovers the Thread is a young farmer-girl that starts displaying wondrous silvery-hued magical powers. The farmer-girl gets kidnapped and brought to the Demonweb where Lolth starts messing with her to make her yield this power and the players storm the Demoweb to free the farmer-girl. Once she is freed and parts of her "essence" that were tore from her are recovered, she bitch-slaps Lolth in her own domain with a big ball of silvery-hued magic and opens a portal to let the players and herself escape. The players can talk to Elminster later and thus know he took the farmer-girl away in some secret place. So in the MMO, no Mystra but Elminster and silver-fire-wielding-farmer-girl.
Regarding the topic at hand ... so ... at the end of the campaign we discover this was all a plot for world domination engineered by a powerful wizard-king called Jeremy of the Irons? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 12:39:19
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| I think its a bit to soon to pass judge. If handled properly this sounds like it could be quite interesting. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 12:53:40
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Yeah, I need to know more about their over-arcing plans and this 'multi-platform' thing before I even know how to begin to feel about any of this. It does sound an awful lot like the 'Rise of the Underdark' non-event. (which I now christian an RTE - a "Realms Tickling Event").
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
To me, it sounds like it's in the neighborhood of an RSE, if not an RSE itself... And that does not please me.
Agreed
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I like this direction for the Cult, though. I would imagine that after Sammy was destroyed again, a lot of the "faithful" lost their way... And Tiamat has been trying to make some inroads with the Cult, so connecting her to the Cult works for me. I liked her whole Undying Queen aspect, and thought it was a great idea.
I also felt this way. I probably would have never used the CotD before, but maybe now I would... maybe. Draco-liches always seemed like such overkill to me. I like this particular change in direction.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not clear, though, why she would need to be freed from the Nine Hells, since she's already had a presence in the Realms...
Agreed again. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2014 13:03:32 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 14:31:36
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I wonder if this means a new Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Guide will be released this year as well? After all how can Authors write for a world that has been defined yet, it could end up a mess.
I also wonder if this means that the only novels released will deal with the Sundering Series and the Tyranny of Dragons this year. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 14:33:29
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| According to 4e Tiamat is prowling Banehold, so this is something that will need to be explained in how she's also stuck in Baator. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 15:41:17
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| I always figured the Spellplague required the gods to "shack up" with each other for a time. Safety in numbers and all that. Hopefully in 5E they will all have re-established their own places of power again. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 20:32:39
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| Mayhaps we will hear from Ed on this one. He's supposed to be at the helm again so I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on the subject. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 20:41:19
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The FRCG won't be released before the 5E D&D rules. WotC is publishing adventures in the Realms currently.
This event to me is starting to feel more like something to tide people over until the Sundering takes place, as well as something to draw more attention to the Realms in the lead up to the Sundering. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 22:03:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
The FRCG won't be released before the 5E D&D rules. WotC is publishing adventures in the Realms currently.
This event to me is starting to feel more like something to tide people over until the Sundering takes place, as well as something to draw more attention to the Realms in the lead up to the Sundering.
That's kind of the impression I got, too... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2014 : 01:56:56
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| It's likely connected to The Sundering in some fashion. My only concern is 'logical disconnect' in that it deals with big, nasty, powerful dragons. So, it SHOULD be a RSE because of the damage that should be caused, but if they don't have an impact on par with their power then the story arc becomes illogical. Yes, I know the adventurers are supposed to put a stop to it but such a group would (IMO) need to be rather powerful to pull it off. We will have to see how it's handled. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2014 : 04:40:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
The FRCG won't be released before the 5E D&D rules. WotC is publishing adventures in the Realms currently.
This event to me is starting to feel more like something to tide people over until the Sundering takes place, as well as something to draw more attention to the Realms in the lead up to the Sundering.
That's kind of the impression I got, too...
Isn't this an event for later in 2014 (as indicated in the announcement)?
The Sundering is happening right now. We're already three novels in and two Encounter modules done with another on the way towards progress on the Sundering.
Doesn't seem to be happening concurrent with the Sundering, unless "later in 2014" means in time for the latter half of the Sundering.
Or maybe the Sundering novels & modules will only set up the Sundering and the results will appear in the 5E FRCG. Then the Tyranny of Dragons will be an interim event.
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2014 : 06:21:56
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| That doesn't mean the story arc can't be tied to the sundering as part of its fallout |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2014 : 06:59:45
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I was merely pondering about the timing rather discounting a possible connection, but it's a valid point you're making about a potential causality.
Nothing to indicate it is (and copywriters love "In the aftermath of The Sundering..."), but nothing that says it's not.
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2014 : 11:53:54
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| I just can't shake this bad feeling I have about the whole thing. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2014 : 14:16:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yeah, I need to know more about their over-arcing plans and this 'multi-platform' thing before I even know how to begin to feel about any of this. It does sound an awful lot like the 'Rise of the Underdark' non-event. (which I now christian an RTE - a "Realms Tickling Event").
RTE hilarious. I hope you dont mind if I steal that. |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2014 : 15:07:49
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Apparently two things sell really well for WotC: dragons and drow. On that basis, and considering their skeleton crew these days, I can understand from a business perspective simply going back to an old well rather than trying to thing of something more creative.
Dragons and drow work, and that also means we will see some sort of drow event/tickling once this one has shuffled to a zombie-like demise....
quote:
Originally posted by Plaguescarred
It reminds me of the 4E adventure path Scales of War
Me too but maybe this time WotC will write it as a real adventure path rather than a random collection of randomly generated monsters that randomly link to other random adventures.
(For those who do not know, Scales of War was written without the "benefit" of any sort of overall outline which was why a campaign synopsis was never provided at any point. It also explains why the links between the adventures - and the encounters within the adventures, and the monsters within the adventures - are tenuous at best.)
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Mayhaps we will hear from Ed on this one. He's supposed to be at the helm again so I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on the subject.
I think it would be overstating things to say he's at the helm. Ultimately, WotC is calling the shots here and you can practically guarantee that a number of WotC folks aren't keeping Ed fully informed. And he's much too much of a gentleman to comment on that in public. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2014 : 15:30:43
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Ah, unless it has some really interesting plot twists, I'm bored with it already. We had the rage of dragons, then the dragons of Faerun book, then the brotherhood of the griffin novels dealing with dragonkind.
As I stated before, if these "Viking longships" have something to do with the long-lost northmen and the other continents of Toril, and they plan on giving actual details to those cultures... then they may have my attention. But, it better not be a whole continent that all worships dragons (i.e. I can understand a subjugated subset or a deluded cult). Otherwise if its just the people of Ruathym or Luskan or the Moonshaes joining up with dragons, I'm gonna yawn my way to the bank... where my money will stay. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2014 : 01:15:54
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Dragon-centric supplements from 3E, aside from those FR-specific sources listed by sleyvas above.
- Draconomicon
- Races of the Dragon
- Dragon Magic (Wizard's marketing research found books with "Dragon" or "Magic" in the title sold the most, why not combine them!)
- Red Hand of Doom adventure (Tiamat focused, and I believe there were adaptation notes for FR)
- MM IV (I think it was #4, had lots of Dragonspawn type creatures)
To be fair, most of those probably arose from the Year of the Dragon.
Seems like we get one Dragon event per edition, 4E had Scales of War, looks like Tyranny of Dragons is the one for 5E.
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Tyranny of Dragons
