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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 18:52:06
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Not sure how to respond to this, or if I even should. 
The only way this would make any sense at all is if this was tied to The Sundering and is yet-another lead-in for the post-Sundering (5e) Realms. I could think of a few ways that is possible (after all, dragons were worshiped and ruled on Abeir, which is presumably going bye-bye soon), so I'm just gonna 'wait and see' before I get my boxers in a bunch.
EDIT: Just read the whole blurb... they are changing the basic premise of The Cult of the Dragon?
Hmmmmmmm...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Jan 2014 18:55:29 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 18:57:20
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That was my original thought. But didn't James Wyatt tell us in one of the Sundering panels that all the gods would be back? Going only on this article, it said Tiamat has been imprisoned/trapped in hell, so this would bring her back. That would kinda make this part of the Sundering events. Granted, it's part of the deal in the way a devil always keeps his word, same as a sneaky lawyer, but it does uphold their promise.
Granted, I'm not really read up on Tiamat's lore, but that's my initial thoughts. I'm more than open to correction. :-) |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 19:23:07
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Wizards needs to coin a new word for their player's choices affect the Realms adventure line. I'm assuming this is the next adventure set after the return of Bhaal.
The use of Realms Shaking Event is bound to kick off a riot around here though. :(
Not sure it's even Realms shaking, all we're talking about is dragons going on the rampage in the North. And considering the Dragon Rage Mythal was destroyed, I figured it would only be a matter of time before someone seized on that. Lots of dragon eggs were deposited on Faerun in recent history too. And without the mythal, there's nothing stopping them from forming another dragon empire.
I could see this being fun with a few large dragons and swarms of hatchlings. I've never liked Tiamat before though so I dunno.
I think my head just exploded.
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Dreamstalker
Acolyte
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 19:25:49
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To me this feels like the "Year of the ..." themes and probably nothing directly to do with the Sundering. I suspect all of the old gods will be back with a few caveats to be used as metaplot points. Tiamat being banished from the Realms was a plot resolved by the whole Chessenta business leading up to and following the Time of Troubles. So this might be a retcon that she never returned at that time, or possibly a retcon that had her separated in a different way than the others gods that lead to the 4E Realms. For all we know this RSE might be taking placing during the whole Year of Rogue Dragons 1373 RSE instead of the modern timeline. Or be a timeline neutral event... that would probably be best even though it takes retcon work as I mentioned above. Timeline neutral might be a good approach to take for all RSE going forward. Instead of developing the future in all but the vaguest of terms, focus on developing the past and 'current events' that can be placed during your favored era of play.
Accessories and adventures based around heroes facing off against dragons and eventually Tiamat in the Sword Coast North is a great way to reinvigorate interest in the Realms. I am excited but will reserve final judgement for actual details on the products and lore, especially the lore. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 19:45:54
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| So my only question is, can I play as a Cavalier whose only weapon is a magic shield? |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 20:29:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
it said Tiamat has been imprisoned/trapped in hell, so this would bring her back.
I don't think Tiamat was ever considered to be gone.
I read it more as an attempt to allow her to enter Toril in her true form, since deities are usually not allowed/able to do so.
So more like Bhaal's early scheme to enter Toril through a moonwell. Let's hope Tiamat won't fail as hard as Bhaal, poor sob never fully recovered from that
Or maybe the CotD only believes she is trapped against her will instead of happily relaxing in her divine realm. These guys were never really good at realizing the obvious  |
Edited by - Mirtek on 23 Jan 2014 20:34:33 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 20:41:17
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| Strike 1 5e Forgotten Realms |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 20:44:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Dreamstalker
Accessories and adventures based around heroes facing off against dragons and eventually Tiamat in the Sword Coast North is a great way to reinvigorate interest in the Realms. I am excited but will reserve final judgement for actual details on the products and lore, especially the lore.
I don't know about the "reinvigorate interest" in the Realms part. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 20:45:21
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"Viking" longships?
So much for a little common sense proof reading, eh, WotC?
That glaringly obvious error aside, the story arc sounds mildly interesting. I don't think this event is an RSE, either. It seems more like the Demon Weave event from previous.
Pleased to see they are advertising in media like USA Today. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 20:56:46
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This 'Tyranny of Dragons' thing sounds pretty generic to me. There's the classic Big Bad Evil, mad cultists, ancient prophecies and some random artifacts (I don't recall those masks being tied into anything, but it could simply be lack of knowledge on my side).
As the plot is now, it doesn't even come close to catch my interest, for what it is worth (btw, I don't mean generic as in ''too small; should have included more uber than dragons'', but as in very common and cliché). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 21:02:27
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| Just add dragon orbs and you have dragonlance. |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 21:02:45
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| One, I believe it is to run through multiple campaigns settings. Two, the Church of Tiamat has been trying to co-op the Cult of the Dragon since 3ed. Also it is less realms shaking as it is north/northwestern Faerun shaking at the moment. So more local then global, not saying the former could become the latter later. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 21:06:27
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Okies my thoughts:
I'm not so sure that changing the 'direction' of the Cult is all that great but...why shouldn't the Cult evolve? They've tried (unsuccessfully) for years to achieve their goals. Mayhaps a new charismatic leader has stepped forward...or Tiamat has managed to finally usurp the Cult to her purposes (she is a goddess after all). Maybe we will see Sammaster in some form? (I think that would be kewl, btw).
Also, why not have this OR the Cult's original beliefs function like a heresy? Some cells are still trudging along like they always have and will (perhaps) work against this new mandate. That way we get to keep the original Cult AND have this new one to use.
I will say that I was hoping some of the emphasis for 5e Realms would be taken away from the Sword Coast and the North. I hope that will be the case. I'm not saying that this story arc MUST stay in Chessenta and Unther...but it would have made more sense, IMO.
This story arc seems very similar to the original Dragonlance story. Five 'dragon whisperers'=Dragon Highlords who are seeking to allow Tiamat (Takhisis) to enter the world. Tiamat/Takhisis 'languished' in the outer planes in that story as well. I don't necessarily have a problem with the similarity (although the idea that Tiamat has languished for millennia flies in the face of canon methinks...and I don't like that). But, since the stories are similar...
Mayhaps it should have occurred in the Bloodstone Lands. Why? Well if we're going for a similar story we can have an order of knights similar to the Solamnic Knights form there. It could happen in Cormyr as well, I suppose. But again, Cormyr has been focused on through all 4 editions of the game. Placing some emphasis elsewhere is a good thing I believe. And having it in Vassa/Damara/Impiltur/Narfell would have been a much better location methinks.
I don't think the North is going to see permanent radical changes (surely WotC have learned that lesson)? More likely, all of Ed's articles detailing the dragons of the North are what drove them to place the story there. Either way, I think major changes to the North would be bad...but like I said I don't think that's going to happen. More likely we will get...
A set of adventures (an AP, perhaps) to allow us to play through these events with the assumption that SOME group of daring and dashing heroes put a stop to the 'Tyranny of Dragons.' I think it could work if handled properly. While I have a real problem with evil organizations being treated like of bunch of idiots (as has been done in the past) I have an equal problem with it becoming monolithic...so I'm sure we will get a localized RSE that is handled by this stories 'Heroes of the Lance' or something. Just as long as El doesn't pop in and solve the problem.
Brian/WotC please take heed. You guys may be treading ice with this one. The idea is great up to a point. But altering the Cult and hashing out the same areas for yet another edition isn't a 100% advantage here. And retconning anything is just plain bad juju sir. Please be very careful with this. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 21:18:10
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quote:
Granted, it's part of the deal in the way a devil always keeps his word, same as a sneaky lawyer, but it does uphold their promise.
This may be over stating it but it's kinda true.
quote:
I don't think Tiamat was ever considered to be gone.
I read it more as an attempt to allow her to enter Toril in her true form, since deities are usually not allowed/able to do so.
THIS
quote:
Strike 1 5e Forgotten Realms
Maybe, but it doesn't have to be if handled with care.
quote:
"Viking" longships?
So much for a little common sense proof reading, eh, WotC?
I'm in 100% agreement here. Where are they coming from? Rauthym? The Moonshaes? When have we ever had viking longships in the Realms? Maybe it was stated as just a reference...they aren't Vikings, just Viking-like. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 21:35:33
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| Just add dragon orbs and you have dragonlance. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 21:51:26
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Well if the press release was designed for major news media outlets, they probably have to use words that people are going to understand. Everyone knows what a viking is, not so much regarding Rauthym raiders.
I'm inclined to agree that this should be viewed as a faction of the cult and their newly changed beliefs. There's no need to destroy a classic. And it makes much more sense to add variety and flavor by using "heresy" or "this is how we roll in the North" vs. "how things are done in the Dalelands" for the cult. |
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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 22:38:41
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Tyranny of Dragons sounds like an exciting new adventure hitting the D&D multi-plateforms!
Tiamat, The Cult of the Dragon, the Sword Coast North etc...looks like dragons are about to rock on!
Looking forward to it and eager to hear more about this for sure... |
Yan
Playtester |
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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 22:40:02
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| Also, art for the temple of Tiamat is nice... |
Yan
Playtester |
Edited by - Plaguescarred on 23 Jan 2014 23:00:16 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 22:45:36
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It does sound somewhat interesting. I'm picturing packs of hissing hatchlings swooping down on caravans to eat, rob, and plunder. Heck I could see a few score smashing into noble villas and merchant shops in larger cities to plunder and slay and flee with loot. Even lower level groups could get in on the fun then.
Of course larger dragons would probably lead the charge at the bigger cities, but could be some fun chaos. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 22:49:48
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On thing I fear comming is that they will again downplay the dragons.
Dragons in the past have suffered hugely from the inverse ninja law.
If there is one dragon in a novel, he's an awe inspiring force of nature. If there is an army of dragons in a novel (*cough* Rogue Dragons Trilogy *cough*) they become a bunch on inept mocks |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 22:50:26
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I don't really have a problem with "new" direction of the Cult of the Dragon so long as it well thought out and executed...my concern is with this whole Tyranny of Dragons (aka. the reboot of 3.5's Year of the Dragon)
1. Sword Coast North - OH LOOK!!! Yet another big bag something or other is causing problems in the Waterdeep/Baldur's Gate/Neverwinter/Icewind Dale/Silver Marches area, that's a shocker...wasn't Tiamat and her church more involved with Unther/Chessenta or something anyway?
2. "Players will get to battle Tiamat." - Really? How exactly is this supposed to work? I know there are some powerful PCs and NPCs out there, but I find it difficult to believe that they should be able to go toe-to-toe with a deity...
3. Yet another NEAR RSE - Can't say that I'm really surprised by this, but coming amidst The Sundering which is be lawded as the RSE of ALL RSE's, will undoubtedly lead to a number of execution problems. While yes, if done correctly with a believable back story and executed correctly this could all work out...but with the TOT and the Spellplague I some how doubt that the stars will align.
4. Tiamat - While a great villain deity, she is also a deity whose history is marred by a lack of information, inconsistencies, and retcon's...and now after being relatively quiet in the 4e Realms, she's back with a vengeance...so again this will come down to believability and execution.
5. Soooo...what's happening in the rest of the Realms? |
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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 22:55:52
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| I am not sure it really qualifies as a Realms Shaking Event though, more of an epic threat |
Yan
Playtester |
Edited by - Plaguescarred on 23 Jan 2014 22:57:41 |
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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 22:59:39
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| It reminds me of the 4E adventure path Scales of War |
Yan
Playtester |
Edited by - Plaguescarred on 23 Jan 2014 23:00:58 |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 23:02:22
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quote:
Originally posted by ksu_bond
2. "Players will get to battle Tiamat." - Really? How exactly is this supposed to work? I know there are some powerful PCs and NPCs out there, but I find it difficult to believe that they should be able to go toe-to-toe with a deity...
I see two options:
a) Face Tiamat is not to be taken literally. We're facing her in so far as we're striving to stop her scheme
b) Well, Asmodeus himself is only a level 20 creature in D&D next, just slightly more powerfull than a pit fiend. So maybe it has a level 20 conclusion and the PCs are expected to directly battle the level 20 Tiamat. Which actually is a lot like deities were handled in AD&D 1e |
Edited by - Mirtek on 23 Jan 2014 23:02:54 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 23:06:27
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To me, it sounds like it's in the neighborhood of an RSE, if not an RSE itself... And that does not please me.
I like this direction for the Cult, though. I would imagine that after Sammy was destroyed again, a lot of the "faithful" lost their way... And Tiamat has been trying to make some inroads with the Cult, so connecting her to the Cult works for me. I liked her whole Undying Queen aspect, and thought it was a great idea.
I'm not clear, though, why she would need to be freed from the Nine Hells, since she's already had a presence in the Realms... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2014 : 23:58:57
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I'm with the "wait and see" folks. Although that temple artwork gets a 9/10 for being a badass blend of Mordor and Twilight Highlands. Tiamat gets 5/10 for being a collection of 3rd edition heads superglued onto a completely unrealistic body.
The Cult of the Dragon has always had two very different goals/attitudes, at least according to my reading of it. The lower ranks are more religious, more devoted to venerating dragons. The upper ranks don't worship dragons at all; they're interested in using dragons and dracoliches. This plurality of attitudes makes it easy to accept part of the organization blending with the cult of Tiamat.
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Just in case you thought The Sundering was the final Realms Shaking Event...
bahahaha... wheeeee, thanks, I needed that laugh. Personally I've given up on the idea of a final RSE. I'm accepting that WotC will never see the light. This way, if they ever do listen to reason, I can be pleasantly surprised.
quote:
"Wizards of the Coast will launch this with the fresh story Tyranny of Dragons this summer, the latest chapter of the role-playing game first launched 40 years ago."
So... is "Tyranny of Dragons" the official shelf-name of D&D Next? Or is it just the name of a new Encounters season? |
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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 00:50:12
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| Tyranny of Dragons sounds more like a mega multi-plateform D&D storyline than a Realms Shaking Event, much like Rise of the Underdark was IMO. http://www.wizards.com/DnD/drow.aspx |
Yan
Playtester |
Edited by - Plaguescarred on 24 Jan 2014 00:51:23 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 01:20:46
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... *sigh*
Colour me unsurprised.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 01:27:53
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So how exactly a Mega Multi-Plateform D&D Storyline not a RSE?
And the fact that Tyranny of Dragons is soo much like the Rise of the Underdark, should be a concern...err wait...refresh my memory...what was the conclusion of the Rise of the UnderdarK again? |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2014 : 01:46:05
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I doubt it, but maybe they'll have Tiamat come to the realms, only to be transferred physically to Abeir during the Sundering. If they actually took the effort to detail some of Abeir, this could work well... having her basically heading up dragon empires in Abeir... that maybe sometimes cross over into Toril. Maybe they form some kind of beachhead on a portal between the worlds. It makes her interesting, but more powerful elsewhere. It takes her out from under Bane and out of the hells (which I agree, she was already out from). I agree though, this would have made more sense in Damara/Vaasa or even in the Unapproachable East in Murghom. In fact, it could be interesting to see something like this in Murghom and the ascended Crown Prince of Murghom (hint, hint) get upset by it and decide to do something deadly to the dragons.
I'd rather the Cult see these new Cultists as heretics and a schism form between the Cult members. In fact, a lot of the Cultists might just turn to that Ascended Crown Prince of Murghom to do something to the dragons to make the prophecy come true. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Tyranny of Dragons
