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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5805 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2014 :  16:35:06  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I'm looking through the Netheril Book and i'm having trouble picking out which Netherese geographic entities map to current (1370's) Faerun geographic entities.


I have a few but they are the really obvious ones

Netheril Name = Current Name

Abbey Mountains = Abbey Mountains
Eastern Forest = Arcorar/Cormanthor
Dementia Range = Ice Mountains/Spine of the World


Does anyone have thoughts on any others.

When i look at the Netheril maps i think the High Ice is much higher up the map in that time than it is now (which i'm fine with; magic did it).

But i cant decide where the other landmarks should be like The God's Legion Mountains, Hidden Forest, Purple Mountains etc, should be

I'm hoping to figure things out so i can decide whereabouts the various crashed enclaves of Netheril might end up.

I realise some of the geography is messed up and attributed to Sharn and Phaerimm magic interacting but some of it does fit slightly (i just have trouble with maps and which way is North etc)

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2014 :  17:12:56  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I no longer own either of the two products that contain the maps, but the ones in both Anauroch and Netheril: Empire of Magic are precisely the same scale and superimpose perfectly.

If you are not very good with GIMP or PS or whatever, you can just place a lamp under a glass table (thats what I used back in the primitive, pre-computer days). Anyhow, you can see where everything falls out (and surprisingly, quite a bit fall-out outside of what we would have thought of as 'Netheril-proper' - it was MUCH bigger then just that desert).

You know what would be interesting? A Netheril map showing 'provinces'. They must have had something like that, otherwise administration would have been a nightmare (even with their very freeform 'republic' type of system).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jan 2014 17:21:02
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

815 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2014 :  17:23:25  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Note: i may be completely and utterly wrong.

Confronting N:EoM first map (Golden Age) with the Faerun Atlas:

Dementia Range = Ice Mountains
Barren Mountains = Nether Mountains
Far Horns Forest = Fallen Lands and the small forests at its southern tip (unsure)
Spiregardt = the Great Mount of Ghaethluntar
Abbey Mountains = Turnback Mountain
Eastern Forest = Border Forest
Gods Legion Mountains = Desertsmouth Mountains AND Northern Thunder Peaks

Looking at the N:EoM third map (The Fall):
Purple Mountains = Greycloak Hills
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

815 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2014 :  17:44:44  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Following Markustay's tip and confronting the first map (Golden Age) in N:EoM and the one in Anauroch:

The Hazardous Climb = The Pillar of Tauros
Sunrest Mountain + The Glorifier = Snout Mountains
Rampant Peaks = Dragon's Back Peaks
Shinantra Mountains = The Wall of the Djinn
Patrician Peak = Aerithae's Rest
Shadowtop Mountain = The Shattered Tower
Nether River = the River of Gems (why is this river left out of all the other maps?)
Widowmaker Mountain = The Swordpoint
Lodestar Mountains = The Scimitar's Spires
Moander's Footstep = The Stonelands

Also, from Silver Marches:
Cold Forest = Cold Wood + Adbar Run + Vordron Forest + Arn Forest
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5805 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2014 :  19:08:47  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't own the products physically either so I cant compare them physically. And my GIMP or PS skills are non existent since I don't have either product, and trying to compare the little sections on the pdfs is very confusing (and gives me whiplash when I rotate my head at odd angles to figure out which way is up)

However I have a few good starting points now so thankyou all.

I am surprised someone pointed out Ghaethluntar, I only just read about that today in a polyhedron magazine and have never seen it anywhere else.

As for the Abbey Mountains, it looks like the Abbey Mountains is the mountain range in the article about the tortured lands and maram and the dark three. The Turnback Mountain is a mountain in the range. Don't know why its different to the Netheril map but given how much bad press everyone gives the Netheril product I will go with the later article.

Thanks for all the help, now I can try and come up with ideas for where the various enclaves might be hiding in ruins and where some of the arcanists ended up. I remember reading that one turned into a lich and his enclave crashed into a river and he rolled away down the river.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2014 :  19:29:55  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, I brought-back some of the older names (and geography) from the Netheril product into my own Stonelands maps (a couple of which are kept here at the keep). Brian James then went-ahead and used some of that as the basis for his art-order and the Mike Schley map of Cormyr, and you can see that on that map (stuff like 'Moandor's Footstep').

No map seems to accurately depict where Thaeravel (Land of Alabaster Towers) was, but since its capital was Rasilith, it must have been in the southern Anauroch region, which should have included the marches and at least one of the swamps (I am thinking both, and that the more southern lands - based around the Tunlands - was still more pro-Thaeravel even after being annexed). Once again, a historic map would come in handy. Someday.... {wistful sigh}

EDIT: Just noticed something - "Moander's Footstep" falls dead-center of where I picture Thaeravel being. I wonder if the two have anything to do with each other? Was Moander a god during the time of Nethril? Could he have been summoned and/or invoked through a ritual, to help eradicate their southern neighbors and rivals? Since I figure the Thaeravelites as being Talfiric, and the Talfir have connections to Shar, is there any thing in the lore that says anything about how Moander and Shar get along?

Also, Moander has corruption as part of portfolio (IIRC), and the Phaerimm are all about 'corrupting magic', or at least, absorbing it. I wonder if Moander has a conection to the phaerimm? They don't appear until after Thaeravel falls (although there could be dozens of explanations for that, including the fact they just hadn't notced the Netherese yet).

Sorry for the derail - maps always make me go a little 'cocoa for Cocoa Puffs' with the lore. Every time I look at them i think of new things.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jan 2014 19:40:59
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5805 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2014 :  19:40:21  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well as I am coming to realise, if you want something doing, do it yourself.

I want the realms continuing from 1370 onwards as it started, so I'm doing it myself.

If you want a historic Netheril map then you will probably have to do it yourself.

Given what we know about the Netherese peoples both high and low, and their descendants from the diaspora you could probably come up with a fairly decent approximation of how the empire of Netheril actually functioned.

We also know a bit about the geography of the area and its surrounding lands so we could probably come up with some extensions for Netheril in order for you to create a map.

Netheril is my next project so I'm gonna comb through it and find and organise what information I can that is useful and relevant (and not ridiculous or erroneous).

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5805 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2014 :  19:55:33  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well there are two interesting bits about Moander's footsteps that might tie in with Thaeravel and your ideas for the high moors and tun marsh.

First is that Moander's Footsteps was the place where Moander first set foot upon Faerun to destroy one of the elder races (creator races).

Second is that the river Pox running out of Moander's Footsteps delivered a virulent plague to the Apothec that dwelled here in 2100 NY (or something like that). The Apothec were of Netherese stock but chose not to be ruled by magic and instead relied on herbs and other natural organic methods. They were made extinct by the plague.



Now this brings several things to mind. First is that the Sarrukh were a creator race that dwelled in the area and Moander may have had something to do with their decline in the area.

Second is the Apothec. Could they be related to Thaeravel. What is the translation between NY and DR. If the Apothec existed after Thaeravel then maybe they were its remnants who were later made extinct.

Finally is Kipyutto and Talona were active in this area after Netheril's fall and Kipyutto may well be imprisoned under the High Moors. Could this be related to the disease that destroyed the Apothec. Maybe Kipyutto was borne out of this incident and when she was killed her essence became trapped in her birthplace.


Anyway I reckon there are reams of good stuff to be gleaned from making sense out of the Netheril book, we have had a lot more info added to the realms since that book was released so im sure new insights are to be had.

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Demzer
Senior Scribe

815 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2014 :  20:20:22  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep to Moander being a god in Netheril, he and Shar got along well as "easy compatriots for her schemes".

The conversion from NY to DR is NY-3859=DR so 2100 NY=-1759 DR.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2014 :  19:29:33  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My theory is that after her final battle with Talona, Kiputytto was in a coma-like state and hidden beneath the swamp (probably the Farsea Marshes), and then was 'revived' and released during the ToT, where she fell prey to Talona a second time (who may have herself appeared in that other city sunk beneath the other swamp - the Marsh of Tun).

Because she makes one appearance AFTER Cyric's ascension, in The Complete Book of Necromancers. In that, Cyric appears cowed by Loviatar, who shows up to take back her sister's soul (which would have to have been a version of Cyric VERY soon after he attained godhood, and was unsure of himself).

I figure Kiputytto for a Gur/Netheres diety of ancient origins (one of the many Finnish gods they had), and Talona as a Talfiric entity, which would explain why the two were fighting after Netheril annexed all the Thaeravel lands.

I really like the idea that the Apothec were Talfiric (the now-subjected remainder of the Thaeravelites), and that they shunned magic, probably because they have learned, "it only brings disaster". On the other hand, the Raumvari originally had a much more druidic magic at first (when you read Frostfell), and if the Netherese are of Gur origin as I surmise (making them related), then the Apothec may be a remnant of the original Netherese belief system, before the Nether Scrolls "ruined them all". You could spin it either way. Another take could be that some of them - the survivors - may have even left and become Uthgardt, eventually joining with other Netherese refugees after the fall, and became Rengardt (the anti-magic group of Uthgardt).

And it could just be that the Netherese -- those of Netherese blood - were the only ones allowed to practice magic within their empire, which means any other racial groups stuck within their borders would have had to find other means.

I am really in-love with the idea that the people of Thultanthar (Shade) got their knowledge after ripping it from the minds of the Talfiric Thaeravelites. I can really see Telamont doing something like that, trying to get an 'edge' over his Netherese rivals. It also helps link the two big pieces of 'shadow lore' we have in the Reals together. Telemont was known as 'Lord Shadow', and the other guy was the Shadowking - a title that Larloch also use on occasion.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Jan 2014 19:35:30
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2014 :  23:38:06  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just a small correction before I get distracted in my own re-exploration of Netheril.

Spiregardt is now called Untrivvin, and it's within the High Ice. Ghaethluntar is outside the desert (and off the Netheril/Anauroch maps) to the east.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5805 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2014 :  19:32:03  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As for Netherest being the only magic users it might be true but not from a law point of view. The Anghardt or Rengarth barbarians (one of them practiced magic). And I have no idea whether they were of the same racial stock as the Netherese (probably not given their different customs - i.e. one is nomadic barbarian tribes, the other is civilised magic using settlements.

I don't think the laws forbade the practice of magic by non Netherese, but given the Thaeravel precedent. If you practiced magic and had some knowledge the Netherest didn't, or that they wanted, then they might just come along and rip that knowledge from your skull.

That might put people off practising magic in their lands.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5805 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2014 :  12:38:46  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Hidden Lake = The Shoal of Thirst/ The Shadow Sea

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5805 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2014 :  19:34:59  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Basin Lake = Bowl of Loneliness

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Malkinere
Acolyte

1 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2018 :  15:41:33  Show Profile Send Malkinere a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello all, newcomer here; as DM though I am very interested in this top and seeing as how this is from 2014 I was curious, has anyone come up with an overlay of Netheril map vs current map? I am most interested in the Savage Coast area.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5805 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2018 :  16:18:48  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I never got a map, my map making skills are non existant. I did however go mad on Netheril for a year or so developing it as much as I could (I covered the first age in the most detail but had an outline for all the other ages worked out as well.

On the sword coast I don't recall all that much (unless you meant the savage north of which there is also not much).
There were isolated outposts (three around the neverwinter region) and one at old owl well.
Explorers probably roamed there looking for interesting stuff to get an outpost started and make a ton of money but really the savage north/sword coast was not a major region for Netheril.

Is there anything you are looking for in particular, there are plenty of Netheril buffs around here.

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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2337 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2018 :  02:35:11  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Malkinere

Hello all, newcomer here; as DM though I am very interested in this top and seeing as how this is from 2014 I was curious, has anyone come up with an overlay of Netheril map vs current map? I am most interested in the Savage Coast area.


The savage coast was not part of Netheril... it was further West.

A couple exceptions... Warloch's Crypt is a fallen enclave that was over there for some reason. Still never got any good details on that as far as I know.

Skullport was originally an enclave, though not of the flying mountain variety.

The Mines of Decanter are Netherese ruins.

Skull Gorge was called the hollow and was the location of Holloway on the Bodensee river, which is now called the River Reaching.

The Netheril box set had a map of the region, but there were very few things named. The High Forest was named high forest. The Endless caverns were described as caves that go on forever. It points out elven ruins in the star mounts that I don't think were ever revealed further. The Lost peaks were labeled as mountains they couldn't climb because magical beings live there.

The location of southcrypt is labeled as proposed location for Kryptgarden Falls. The forest there, labeled Westwood, would eventually become Kryptgarden forest, separated by deforestation from the remains of Westwood to the south.

Only other things to note is that the residents of the location of Waterdeep are described as idiots and there were apparently dragons south of the Greypeaks that were easy to tame.

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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2259 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2018 :  18:43:18  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great dazzlerdal,

I have a fantastic site you may enjoy here for Netheril!

https://faerunhistory.wordpress.com/2017/02/11/maps-of-netheril/

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I'm looking through the Netheril Book and i'm having trouble picking out which Netherese geographic entities map to current (1370's) Faerun geographic entities.


I have a few but they are the really obvious ones

Netheril Name = Current Name

Abbey Mountains = Abbey Mountains
Eastern Forest = Arcorar/Cormanthor
Dementia Range = Ice Mountains/Spine of the World


Does anyone have thoughts on any others.

When i look at the Netheril maps i think the High Ice is much higher up the map in that time than it is now (which i'm fine with; magic did it).

But i cant decide where the other landmarks should be like The God's Legion Mountains, Hidden Forest, Purple Mountains etc, should be

I'm hoping to figure things out so i can decide whereabouts the various crashed enclaves of Netheril might end up.

I realise some of the geography is messed up and attributed to Sharn and Phaerimm magic interacting but some of it does fit slightly (i just have trouble with maps and which way is North etc)


Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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