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John Fern
Acolyte
15 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Jan 2014 : 05:47:44
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Hi all!
I'm currently RPing a Cleric and I just wanted to ask a few questions to better wrap my head around my character and their life.
My first question is how do clerics get their power? I understand they pray to their god and their god gifts them with spells... but why? What makes a god single out a specific person for these great abilities, and what determines how much power they are given?
For Wizards and Warriors the character level represents a level of study or honing of a martial ability, but when my cleric gains experience and levels, what is happening exactly? Are they learning how to better commune with their god? Are they more adapt at handling greater spells with practice? Or is their level tied simply to how much faith their god has in them to carry out the gods Dogma.
Finally what determines how much power a god gives someone? I can imagine they have a limited amount to dole out; but if your low level cleric is doing something important, why wouldnt that god just want to give them level 9 spells to pew pew with and get the job done.
I'm just trying to visualize the growth of my character and what should be happening as they go out and grow in the setting.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2014 : 06:20:06
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Well OK, first it is a game and rules try to simply things. Example survival skill does not require actually learning how to track game or build a fire. Such things are inferred are learned during a campaign, that does not require Role Play. The same applies to a Wizard or Fighter, they practice learning new spells (empowering known spells) or fighting skills that become successful after they gain enough Ex. Pts.
The Cleric as well as Ex. Pts. are gained it is inferred that the Cleric has prayed, made proper sacrifices, followed the dogma of the Deity. A deity rewards those that follow them more so then other deities. A Cleric decides they most closely believe in the teaching of Thom then Bane and follows the dogma of the deity is so rewarded by being granted magical abilities.
The person selects the deity, the deity rarely selects a person (In those rare cases , the person can refuse, depending on deity might die for it.).
Clerics also study magic and dogma, much like a Wizard does. It is just a different way because of devotion to a concept far beyond just being able to cast spells. They learn their weapons and use them in defense (or to spread it) of the faith.
Clearly the Cleric should become closer to the Deity as their level grows and they do not fall.
The rules determine in most cases how much power a Cleric receives, however a DM certainly can award special ability to a very devote follower. Either as a one time (save life) or special ability (useable once a day, week, etc.).
There though is a problem of giving a 1st level Cleric a 9th Level spell (breaks game balance as far as rules goes)because of not having prayed enough, not having served the deity well enough and so on. Some one that follows for one year able to cast 9th level , when many served for 10 to 20 years and if lucky can cast 5th level. It breaks the game to grant level powers to any class low level because a deity likes them.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2014 : 06:23:13
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So this is my experience from playing Clerics from 2E AD&D up through 4E. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can:
Question #1a: How do clerics get their power?"
- They gain their divinity from their conviction and belief. There are some settings in which no Gods exist and yet character can still play clerics. Their believe in their inner self and conviction of their actions fuels this power. As for why? If the power is coming from a God then the god believes that this mortal will promote their agenda on the prime material plane.
Question #2. "What's happening when my character gains experience and levels up?"
- I believe it comes down to their faith in their mission and the power they've received by their god. As they promote their gods dogma, they are suffused with more divinity. I think of it as as cup, the smaller the cup then the lower the level. As a cleric gains power, their "cup" grows and allows a god to pour more power into it. If the god pours too much then the cup breaks or the power spills out and is lost. Communion with their deity is one portion of their growing strength, but so too is their prayer and their need for certain spells. I'll admit that D&D has never really been good at showing examples of how people should role-play "leveling up" during the game.
Question #3: "What determines how much power a god gives someone?"
- To me, I go back to the cup analogy. Further, a God doesn't grant someone fairly new and inexperienced with their power. To do so might prove to be folly. The person needs to show that their faith and conviction is true, and that's done by gaining experience in the world. If someone prays and prays and prays and it never tested, how sure can a god be that such a person would use their gifted power for good reasons when their true self is tested? By starting out slow, and by the person showing their faith through actions, the more confidence a god might gain in said person and thus, trusted with more power. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2014 : 06:25:51
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quote:
Originally posted by John Fern
Hi all!
Well met and welcome to the forums, John.
quote:
Originally posted by John Fern
My first question is how do clerics get their power?
In some cases deities foresee that certain mortals can, if given a portion of divine power and divine guidance, further the aims of that deity.
The problem is of course free will. Once a deity has given a mortal access to power, that mortal could just as easily screw everything up as do what the deity wants.
This is always a risk.
Levels in the D&D game make it easy to put caps on the power that Clerics receive, but in the game world it might be better to visualize a character's level as the sum total of him or her 'getting it right' opposite his or her deity, and so measures the likelihood of receiving slightly more power the next time around.
quote:
Originally posted by John Fern
...but when my cleric gains experience and levels, what is happening exactly? Are they learning how to better commune with their god? Are they more adapt at handling greater spells with practice? Or is their level tied simply to how much faith their god has in them to carry out the gods Dogma.
I think it's all of these things plus the character's honing of his or her own set of beliefs in terms of bringing about the vision of the deity and taking action in line with what the deity wants.
quote:
Originally posted by John Fern
Finally what determines how much power a god gives someone? I can imagine they have a limited amount to dole out; but if your low level cleric is doing something important, why wouldn't that god just want to give them level 9 spells to pew pew with and get the job done.
A low-level character being granted the power of 9th level spells, with almost no experience in wielding that power, is more than likely going to wield that power incorrectly and cause more harm than good.
Never mind the fact that the spell power given to the mortal cleric might just burn his or her brains out.
In the Realms, more so than in adventures a DM might run, there's just not going to be a one to one correlation (e.g. Important Work + High Level Spell = Job Gets Done By 1st Level PC) between the events that go on in the world and the needs/wants of a deity.
Hope this helps. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Zealot
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2014 : 14:00:23
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| I like playing clerics and I have a habit of writing character journals just to help me get into my character. *Im obsessive I guess* I always played my character's increase in power as them growing closer to their god or goddess. A persons faith grows when they see the physical manifestations of their god. Also the stronger and more rooted you become in your religion the more of the faith becomes uncovered for you. I just role played it as personal growth. Hope this helped. |
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2014 : 14:48:08
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| To put it simply, the xp gained by the priest is a reflection of the deity's trust in the priest as he/she proves themselves and in the priest's faith in said deity for providing them with the power needed to overcome obstacles. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2014 : 01:18:42
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I have actually never thought about this, but its an interesting question.
I think, that (besides the obvious game mechanics) the clerics power is kind of like the deitys trust in him, but also how deep he is in his faith, knowledge wise. The deeper (darker) secrets the cleric knows the closer he can get to his god. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2014 : 03:00:56
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Channeling divine magic is a skill and its more then simply faith, although that's an important part of it. Plenty of people in Toril have deep faith, even zealotry (which is not requiered), with out being able to cast divine magic and technically not all Priests of a faith can cast divine magic.
I found the novel Lady of Poison by Bruce Cordell as a great example of how cleric magic works.
Its not simply about dogma or agendas or anything like that. Its about a deep spiritual connect.
A Cleric first gets ordain either by rite or the deity itself or by a servant of that God and that creates the conduit between Mortal and Divine. After that the only limit on the Cleric's power is the Cleric's ability to create a state of oneness/connection with the God. Its about creating a Gnostic union with the diety and the starter the Clerics ability to atune to the deity the more powerful the cleric. The Clerics power isn't contengent on the power of the diety, its inherant to the level of union.
As to limited power, even a demigod is like a sun compared to the cleric's solar cell. Although unlike a solar cell the strength of the worshippers faith is added a deity the more powerful the deity gets. So a Cleric is only limited by herself.
This union is something on a deeper level then rote dogma, its expressed as an experience.
Of course for different divine classes its some what different, but some level of divine
union I believe is still needed, except for the Ur-Priest who steals divine power.
A Paladin Oath is the Divine Connection and love for the Diety is I believe more important then a deep iniative connection with the Deity. I think Paladin's are more about service to the Gods and Clerics are more about divine union and connection which is why Clerics value Wisdom and Paladin's value Charisma, aka Oneness vs. a vassal relationship.
Druids are more oneness with the world at large and through that shared connection a diety of nature (or Primal Spirits). Rangers I'm not completely sure, I'll have to think on that.
Archivists connection is probably more theocractical, a technology, but deep understanding of thier God which they apply to scrolls and spellbooks.
Invokers are more pantheistic and rely one the words of creation that the Gods share with them. Prophets of the Gods.
Avengers are now a type of Paladin and the basic relationship was simular anyways, just the primary duty was different.
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John Fern
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2014 : 03:26:51
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These have all been very thoughtful and solidifying responses, thank you very much. All of what you're saying makes sense, but its just nice to see some of the more nebulous and abstract thoughts put to paper!
Thanks again!
Since we're on the topic... sort of... Would someone like to enlighten me on the differences between a Cleric of Mystra and a Wizard follower of hers? |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2014 : 04:21:26
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quote:
Originally posted by John Fern
These have all been very thoughtful and solidifying responses, thank you very much. All of what you're saying makes sense, but its just nice to see some of the more nebulous and abstract thoughts put to paper!
Thanks again!
Since we're on the topic... sort of... Would someone like to enlighten me on the differences between a Cleric of Mystra and a Wizard follower of hers?
Well one answer is simple: a Cleric of Mystra casts divine spells, a Wizard follower casts Arcane magic, however support Mystra's temples and seek the Clerics for certain guidance and healing when needed.
The two types of magic are indeed different as are the requirements of serving a deity as opposed to worshiping a deity. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2014 : 05:13:18
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quote:
Originally posted by John Fern
These have all been very thoughtful and solidifying responses, thank you very much. All of what you're saying makes sense, but its just nice to see some of the more nebulous and abstract thoughts put to paper!
Thanks again!
Since we're on the topic... sort of... Would someone like to enlighten me on the differences between a Cleric of Mystra and a Wizard follower of hers?
A cleric of Mystra celebrates magic in all its forms and wants to promote the use of magic by everyone. Generally, if someone needs help learning magic, the cleric will go out of their way to find the means to teach them and consider that their holy responsibility. If they develop a new spell, they're very likely to try and share it.
The wizard serving Mystra gives praise to Mystra for his magical ability, then goes back to studying his books. If someone wants to learn magic, he tells them, that's nice but he's busy unless they want to do the odd jobs around the house that the wizard doesn't want to deal with (cooking, cleaning, going to the store and picking up stuff, etc....). If another wizard wants a copy of X spell that the wizard just made, he's likely to be told to buzz off unless he's got something to trade of equal value. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2014 : 16:38:43
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As others have said: faith, trust, experience/knowledge.
First, a cleric must have faith in the deity. In a polytheistic setting, most people believe in the gods and most people probably give prayers or offerings to more than one god as a matter of course. In many cases this will be almost a commercial transaction, like buying an amulet against the evil eye or a potion of invisibility from your local wizard. You go to the priest, give them some money or a sheep or something, and they wave their hands and tell you you're blessed.
The cleric himself is dedicated almost wholly to their own deity. They may act the same as the lay person vis-a-vis other gods, but to them their own deity takes precedence. Their deity is known more intimately, they are more connected. The comparison could be as love to mere friendship, or devotion relative to mere obedience, or a passion relative to a mere hobby or interest. The deity is the center of their life - even their world. The longer you know your deity, the more intimately you know them, the more you understand them and the more you desire to serve them because they are the ultimate embodiment of your view of the world. To you, they represent everything that is true about the world. Thus, to fall from your deity's favour would be like the ultimate breakup and rejection.
This is also related to trust. The more you understand your deity and the more they 'resonate' with you, the more you will trust the diety's commands and instructions to you. You may not understand why, but because you believe in the diety, you believe that their plans for you are for the best and so you obey. The deity, in turn, judges you by your obedience and dedication and, like a trusted retainer or subordinate, the more you can be trusted to obey, the more trust and responsibility you will be given.
Finally, knowledge. To understand your deity, you must know what they represent. You must know their aspects, their moods. You must know the signs by which they make themselves known and how to interpret those signs. You must know how to address them, when and how to make offerings, how to attract their presence, how to present yourself favourably to them, how to demonstrate your devotion. You must know how to behave in the proper manner without the deity him/herself telling you - that is, you can't simply follow the forms by rote, you must truly understand the hidden forms and meanings behind them in order to behave in the right way at all times. If your god forbids you from wearing a certain colour, for example, not wearing that colour only while you are in the temple shows your god that you don't truly understand what you are doing and why.
quote:
"I worship Sharess because she embodies my ideals, my love of giving and receiving pleasure.... Sometimes, when I'm with someone, I almost feel as if the Goddess herself has descended on me, that I'm doing Her will, or that Her power is within me. I understand Sharess because She is like me."
"Sharess does not demand, She asks. I can dedicate my pleasure to Sharess or not. Whether I make that choice or not shows how I serve Her.... It's enough for me that I can give thanks to someone for the pleasures I experience."
~ Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers, 10. Collected Sayings.
Generally, all of these things will be learned as one advances through the religious hierarchy, so more important clerics will tend to be of higher level. However, just as there are hypocrites, incompetents, backsliders, backstabbers, politics, nepotism and other sorts of favouritism in real life, greater advancement in the human hierarchy does not necessarily represent greater favour in the eyes of the deity. The prophet in the wilds, or the village priest who is personally anointed by the god, or the dedicated preacher, may have more divine favour than the head of the church. Whether or not the deity acts to protect or promote you against the wiles of other humans in the hierarchy will depend on the deity and what they stand for and also how busy they are (as deities in FR are not omnipotent and omnipresent).
I believe it was in the first edition PHB that it was said that low-level clerics don't get their powers from the god directly, but from lower-level servants. There may even be a pool of low-level magical power you can tap into (eg. cantrips/orisons) simply by having gone through a few simple ceremonies (ie. being ordained). In a sense, becoming a cleric is like becoming a student at a university. You pay your money, you get a computer password and access to basic library features, you take courses and you slowly advance in knowledge and responsibility and, hopefully, understanding. As you progress, you may develop individual relationships with the professors who may hire you to mark exams, you get better borrowing privileges and learn where the really important books are, and eventually you reach graduate or faculty level at which you are considered knowledgeable in your field, other professors are now your colleagues rather than distant authority figures, the university may pay you a salary, you know the Dean personally and you have power over the destiny of others.
Now you are a somebody!
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
Edited by - xaviera on 10 Jan 2014 16:52:06 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2014 : 00:35:43
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| You become more attuned to, more in harmony with, more like the god; a much deeper thing than belief (indeed, Platonically speaking, the opposite of belief); it does involve technique and learned methods of working on oneself and with the god. I don't think the god is making a conscious decision to give Power to each priest; perhaps imagine that the god and worshippers form one organism and those whose souls are clearer and greater and more like the god and able to handle its being are outlets for more of it. |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
573 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2014 : 04:40:43
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I don't buy it.
Cleric is the most problematic of all of the character classes in virtually every edition (4th was the only one that got it sort of right).
Not every high-level cleric is a devout theologian or perfectly in sync with his god's will, nor is every low level cleric an absolute novice in terms of faith.
Experience is primarily accumulated by killing stuff, and has to do with life experiences. The power you gain as a result (going up levels) depends on how you apply those life experiences to your endeavors. UNLESS you're a cleric. Everyone else's powers come solely from within and individual development, Cleric's powers on the other hand are extrinsic.
Since it is the exception, and that exception tends to break a lot of stuff if interpreted consistently (why should clerics select spells? shouldn't their god provide the spells they need for that day with special insight to the day's needs? Why memorize them at all? Why not cast spells on the fly? Why make your clerics invoke your will to turn the undead, why not just have the power 'on' all the time? Are gods trying to go eco-friendly with their power all of a sudden?).
As such, I tend to run clerics as wizards--much like the writings of Robert E. Howard. Gods have sacred texts and magical systems, and as you prove yourself valuable to your superiors, they initiate you into the various levels with rites and the like. I find this to be much more consistent with the other classes and paradigms within D&D. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2014 : 06:22:24
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Killing stuff for experience is a matter of game mechanics. In the world outside of game statistics that isn't the source of clerical power.
I don't agree clerical powers are entirely extrinsic. Why wouldn't deities just give their faithful as much power as suits them? Or wisdom increase powers? The spellcasters uses their will power to summon power from their deity... it isn't entirely a gift. In the Lady Penitent Series when a spellcaster asks for a miracle from Vhaeraun it is communicated that one has to have the ability to cast a miracle it can't just be given, for example. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2014 : 10:56:34
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That's why in 2e clerics gain XP - and subsequently grow in power - when they successfully use a granted power or when they cast spells to further their ethos . Other spells give them no XP, and they are unlike wizards, that gain XP as they cast spells for spells cast to overcome foes or problems. The more a priest uses - and so trusts in - the powers given by his deity to promote his ideals, the more he or she is experienced in using these powers, and/or the better he or she is favored by his patron god(dess).  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 13 Jan 2014 10:58:12 |
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2014 : 17:55:23
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quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
Not every high-level cleric is a devout theologian or perfectly in sync with his god's will, nor is every low level cleric an absolute novice in terms of faith.
Experience is primarily accumulated by killing stuff, and has to do with life experiences. The power you gain as a result (going up levels) depends on how you apply those life experiences to your endeavors. UNLESS you're a cleric. Everyone else's powers come solely from within and individual development, Cleric's powers on the other hand are extrinsic.
Since it is the exception, and that exception tends to break a lot of stuff if interpreted consistently (why should clerics select spells? shouldn't their god provide the spells they need for that day with special insight to the day's needs? Why memorize them at all? Why not cast spells on the fly? Why make your clerics invoke your will to turn the undead, why not just have the power 'on' all the time?
As noted by Mr. Hedgehog in the next post down from yours, it's largely a matter of mechanics. Strictly from an out-of-character point of view, I'd bet that many who play clerics don't RP their faith much more than the occasional "---- bless you" or "In the name of ----" or "Let's visit the local temple of my god and see if they'll give us some free healing". Just as it's assumed that wizards spend days studying spell books, it's assumed that clerics spend most of their non-adventuring time attending to the community of the faithful and doing other churchy stuff.
I made the point in my last post that those who occupy positions of power in their temple may not actually be high-level clerics (and those who are strong in the faith may not be politically high-level), and this is where the game mechanics of adventuring with a warrior-spellcaster and living a faith-based life in-character don't mesh. Within the limits of the game system, cleric experience is due entirely to intrinsic factors. To the extent that everyone gets xp from killing things, that's assumed to be practicing weapon and combat skills and getting physically tougher. You could conceivably level a cleric to epic without ever casting a spell or saying a prayer.
The turning of undead is assumed to be a specific, directed and forceful action ("Back, foul creatures of the grave! I charge thee to return to dust! Back, I say!") and as such isn't 'always on'. I do agree with your suggestion of casting spells 'on the fly', but I also think mages (or at least sorcerors) should be able to do the same. The scripted spells are a holdover of the original Vancian magic system. I've always preferred a 'mana points' sort of mechanic.
I don't see clerics as differing from any other class as far as the game mechanics are concerned. Where and how they differ from others should come out in the role-play - as, indeed, it should for any class.
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
Edited by - xaviera on 13 Jan 2014 17:57:14 |
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Lothlos
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2014 : 19:36:54
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| In my game experience points are not just for killing monsters. They are for gaining "life experience" for the character. In fact kill a monster just for the sake of getting XP usually will not earn you any. Acting in conjunction with your god or goddesses belief system when it goes against the grain on the other hand will earn you XP if you are a cleric or a paladin. Thieves should get experience for overcoming traps. Wizards for creating new spells ext... |
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.
-J.R.R. Tolkien
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2014 : 20:49:27
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quote:
Originally posted by John Fern
Finally what determines how much power a god gives someone? I can imagine they have a limited amount to dole out; but if your low level cleric is doing something important, why wouldnt that god just want to give them level 9 spells to pew pew with and get the job done.
How much the mortal can take and how much the deity thinks it's wise to give 'em (this usually doesn't kick in unless the priest acts up). Per Planescape rules, a priest's power waxes and wanes with the proximity to the deity's home (in addition to having direct communication unavailable if they are on the different sides from Prime).
AD&D2 had a good concept of "Quest Spells". I'd propose to go further: why wouldn't any divine caster be able to get a spell of 1-2 level higher than normal capability after some jumping through hoops, with all appliable limitations? Then they should get XP reward or penalty for using it up (more than "XP for useful spellcasting" award), depending on how well this fit into their dogma and task.
quote:
Originally posted by Lothlos
In my game experience points are not just for killing monsters. They are for gaining "life experience" for the character. [...] Acting in conjunction with your god or goddesses belief system when it goes against the grain on the other hand will earn you XP if you are a cleric or a paladin. Thieves should get experience for overcoming traps. Wizards for creating new spells
So... you're playing AD&D?
quote:
In fact kill a monster just for the sake of getting XP usually will not earn you any.
Why? It gives life experience. Granted, this applies not to anyone alike, but that's what custom XP awards are for - e.g. clerics of war gods could use "defeat an opponent" bonus like warrior's, if it's done "the right way" (teamwork or solo challenge depening on the dogma, and all limitations). |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe
Ireland
212 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 23:00:46
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| maybe compare them more to sorcerers than wizards. they're imbued with powers from whatever source and slowly learn to exploit them more and more. if it was linked too much to the deity's favour that would screw with level progression for characters who doubt their god, et.c |
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 22:55:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Roseweave
if it was linked too much to the deity's favour that would screw with level progression for characters who doubt their god, et.c
In game terms, at least, I think that most clerics function 'on automatic' as far as the deity is concerned, having access to a pool of divine power simply by virtue of being ordained or otherwise bonded/dedicated to their god. They may very well not be 'noticed' by the deity (or its agents) unless/until they do something particularly noteworthy.
I would argue that a cleric who doubts their god in any major way should level more slowly, if only because the religious component of their life (which should be substantial) would become less important and/or meaningful to them (and thus worth fewer xp). If someone is actively working against the ethos of their diety, they should Fall. And a crisis of faith should present excellent roleplay opportunities. 
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 23:00:39
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| Ed is very clear that whenever deities or their servants grant priests spells it's in recognition of their faithful service, and recommends DMs to have them provide different spells or no spells, or to impose penances on PC priests who treat their god as nothing but an automatic power source. See e.g. here, two-thirds down. |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2014 : 07:23:44
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| I think it's strongly implied there's training/experience required to successfully wield the Power in addition to the favor of or communion with the deity. After all, a cleric can change faiths in the Realms without having to start over from scratch (per p.19 of 2e Faiths & Avatars, p.233 of the 3e FRCS, or the example of Fzoul Chembryl swapping from Cyric to Xvim). This suggests experience in wielding of the Power is necessary and is valuable to a god - if the wielder can be trusted by the god. This suggests possible plots where a god tries to poach high-level clergy from another deity, in hopes of gaining the advantage of an immediately-powerful servant and removing one from a rival. |
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How do Clerics grow in power?
