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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1582 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  02:24:55  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message
quote:
(The old sage being a helpless romantic, he would be against any sort of 'arranged' coupling)

Not sure I agree with this...El would do whatever Mystra commanded him to do.

quote:
Is her likeness to Fae just coincidence

I hope this is the case because if they are related that means El had relations with a blood relative (unless the Shadowsil was just a 'favored' daughter of his and I misinterpreted the relationship between them...I thought/think they were lovers).

quote:
Is she the lost '8th' Seventh sister

Um, what? There's an 8th sister? Where can I get info on this at?

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  02:25:27  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Demzer, I've always thought the Larloch-made thrones were Larloch's way of eavesdropping on the zulkirs or even subtly controlling them (or reaching through them to magically aid someone sitting on one against an attack, e.g. Chairmaster helped against Szass Tam). We'll see what Ed says . . .
Markustay, your questions are GOOD (heh-heh). I defer to Ed, because I don't know how much he wants to reveal at this point. I don't think Fee was ever a full-fledged Harper, but that's just my supposition...we'll have to wait for THE Master of Realmslore...
love,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13284 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  04:59:23  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Not sure I agree with this...El would do whatever Mystra commanded him to do.
YES... but I am talking about 'meddling Harpers' here, and not Mystra.

quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

I hope this is the case because if they are related that means El had relations with a blood relative (unless the Shadowsil was just a 'favored' daughter of his and I misinterpreted the relationship between them...I thought/think they were lovers).
Yes, and in the latest Elminster books, Alusair's ghost flirts with him... and is his granddaughter (or great-great whatever granddaughter). First off, that sort of thing was commonplace here on Earth 'back in the day' (especially amongst nobility/royalty). Second, The Realms do not have our Puritanical leanings, so it would have even been more acceptable (whereas here on Earth, it was 'behind closed doors'). Third, with the magic of Chosen at his disposal, he doesn't really have to worry about 'genetic deformities' of any kind (and will only provide a 'fertile birth' if Mystra allows it, so she is directly involved in her Chosen procreating). And last but certainly not least - he's a THOUSAND years old - mathematically, he's related to most of Faern by now. Its only 'gross' because we have been taught its gross. On another world, 'different strokes for different folks'.

But I was actually thinking the exact opposite - that Manshoon was her father (or that The Shadowsil is a clone... something Manshoon specializes in, BTW). If she was a clone, then Manshoon could have easilly been BOTH her 'father' (her creator) and her lover. Is it still gross if El had relations with his granddaughter's clone? A magical world has some morality conundrums we don't run into.

quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Um, what? There's an 8th sister? Where can I get info on this at?
Sorry - my bad.

That was just more of my theoretical musings. I remember reading in Marvel comics years ago how Doctor Strange, Doctor Druid, and Doctor Doom all had similar origin-stories (and were all supposedly taken-in by the same group of mystics). Doctor Druid waxed philosophical on both he and Doom being 'failed attempts' at a Sorcerer Supreme. I was thinking more along those lines - that she was 'with them' (the Sisters) early on - read that Zirta story here at the Keep - and could have possibly become a Chosen... had her heart not pulled her in another direction. I recall Ed telling me (here in this thread) that Filfaeril went to Woodstock with two of the sisters - thats a pretty tight bond, Planes-hopping for a concert!

I never understood the entirety of the story with Qilu Veladorn - she always struck me as 'a replacement'.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Which leads me to yet-another question (and I still haven't asked the one I came to this thread for in the first place, which seems trivial now in light of this revelation) - was the biological mother or father of the Seven Sisters a descendent of Elminster? Is it something about his bloodline that makes for good Chosen? If its true of one of them, then could the other parent have been from another important bloodline - one of those Incipient Clans, perhaps? (and while fact-checking that reference, I noted several magisters had concerned themselves with 'preserving' bloodlines... hmmm Hmmm HMMMM...)

Methinks my 'Bene Gesserit' comparison earlier may have been more on the mark then I had thought.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 05 Feb 2014 05:05:42
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

530 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  18:55:16  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message
A query slightly related to Markustay's musings:
The Simbul's Gift takes place in 1368, the Spellplague hits in 1385, that's 17 years for the Simbul to get the Old Goat to finally give her a child, so, did she succeed?
[I feel like any moment i can see an enormous block of granite with the words "NDA" etched on it falling on my head]
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1582 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  23:49:32  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message
quote:
I never understood the entirety of the story with Qilu Veladorn - she always struck me as 'a replacement'.

Tbh, I never used Quilue as a sister (just another Chosen). I toyed with the idea of the seventh 'dark disaster' being an evil mage of great power, but I never fleshed out the idea. Frankly, the Realms needs more ebil lady mages.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1367 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 :  21:58:24  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message
Greetings, THO and Ed!
I noticed that according to some 3e materials ("Spire Walking" feat), Iriaebor, or "the City of a Thousand Spires", not only is known for thin high towers and widespread use of magic in construction thereof, but also has a network of bridges, stairs and suchlike "skyroads". And that it happens to be a trade hub sitting right on a road from Sshamath. Locals don't leave an impression of people too shy or righteous for dealing with dark elves, if there's a good coin in it, either. And the "City of Dark Weavings" lives up to its name with architecture featuring - coincidentally - magicked-up construction techniques, stalagmites and webs of mid-air roads.
So, what is this - a coincidence? Influence of mage-merchants from Underdark? Drow specialists moonlighting on surface when the demand down there is low?

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe

USA
422 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 :  22:54:18  Show Profile Send Kris the Grey a Private Message
Shadowsil - huge fan!

Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13284 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 :  23:52:19  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Speaking of which (The Shadowsil) - does her name mean anything?

As in - a shadow-version of 'Sil'... who or what ever that may be?

And I may as well ask the (unrelated) question I had first come to this thread to ask the other day, before my mind got sent down all sorts of shadowy paths and and conspiracy-laden alleyways....

Does Candlekeep have a large collection of off-world books in its library? Any from Earth you could mention? I was reading a quote by Shakespeare the other day ("If you prick us, do we not bleed?"), and I was thinking that Elminster would probably have enjoyed The Bard, and that if he took anything home (from your house lol) it would have been those works. What other earth stories/books would he enjoy, and what has he left with?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 06 Feb 2014 23:59:31
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1229 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2014 :  10:04:14  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message
What can Ed tell us about the cuisine of the Dragonreach?

Specifically, what kind of seafood is common there? Cod, haddock and herring? Or anchovies, pilchard, mackarel, carp, soles, mullets, pandora, cuttlefish, mahi mahi and turbots?

What are foremost local delicacies of the sea; lobster, oysters, scallops, mussels, shrimp, eels, squid or crabs?

The valet of one of my PCs, the halfling Winifred Minstrelwish of Ravens Bluff, was instructed in the morning to prepare a feast in the evening when the PC and his companions return from the tourney he is competing at in the City of Tantras. Winifred is a master of culinary arts, well-versed in many styles of cooking, but he aims to showcase Tantras cuisine this evening.

There will obviously be rather a lot of seafood available and apart from a hearty beef, pt and sauteed-mushrooms baeranth that the young lady Raerevel Cathone suggested, I don't know what kind of food he ought to prepare.

I was thinking that some kind of seafood soup was called for. Crabs, lobster or whatever seafood delicacy is locally popular would also be nice. And some tasty fish, whatever he is likely to find that is fit for a noble table.

Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe

USA
422 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2014 :  00:49:14  Show Profile Send Kris the Grey a Private Message
Markustay,

Earth tomes at Candlekeep? Now you have my interest...(not that you didn't have it with the Shadowsil, Lol).

Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe

France
166 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2014 :  12:09:38  Show Profile Send Marco Volo a Private Message
Hi Ed and THO,

1/ I was wandering how incantatrixes are seen by the church of Mystra ?

2/ Could an incantatrix be a High priestess of Mystra ?

3/ Could Mystra let a High priestess becoming a good-aligned lich that live "forever" in the depths of one of her temple ?

Thanks in advance,

MV.

Edited by - Marco Volo on 08 Feb 2014 12:13:37
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
784 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2014 :  17:00:24  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message
Hi Ed and THO,

I just re-read The Parched Sea and the 2nd edition sourcebook on Anauroch; Bedine culture is very interesting. I was curious to know Ed's stance on the Bedine treatment of women, as it seems so contradictory to the way women are portrayed in the majority of the Realms. Aside from the drow matriarchy, it seems like gender equality in the most of Faerun and Ed is very gender neutral in his writings/lore. Was the Bedine treatment of women something Ed invisioned in his Realms or was that from Troy Denning/Wizards? I guess women are treated differently in a harsh environment like Anauroch because survival depends on keeping the women and children safe, to the point of treating them like valuable property.

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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1101 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2014 :  19:07:36  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message
I'd just like to say in regards to Seravin's query that the Bedine are a transplanted culture from Zakhara. Zakharan culture is heavily based upon traditional arabic culture and therefore would naturally be abnormal compared to the regions surrounding Anauroch that developed without Zakharan influence.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

Head admin of the FR wiki:

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2014 :  04:22:47  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Seravin, the Bedine (the name drawn from Bedouin; their rival tribe's name is also derived from a real-world tribal name) were created by Troy for that novel, and weren't what Ed originally had in Anauroch at all. Once they were canon, Ed stepped in to round them out in game detail in the Anauroch "FR" book. When Jeff Grubb was developing Al-Qadim, he talked over with Ed which Bedine spells (that Ed had created for the FR Anauroch product) could be used "straight," what extra "wouldn't fit" unpublished spells Ed had created for the Anauroch book could be picked up for use (because Ed always does some extra, to cover for possible shifts in font size, artwork, etc.), and so on. So Troy's Bedine came first, before Zakhara was created - - but hashimashadoo is quite correct: In-game, the Bedine came from Zakhara, which Jeff deliberately based closely on Arabian culture as per the design plans for that product line.
(It bears repeating: Ed NEVER based any part of the Realms closely or directly on real-world historical cultures beyond a general "Hollywood European medieval" feel, but many TSR designers did, for various reasons.)
However, Ed wants a variety of societal norms in the Realms, so once the Bedine were there, he rolled up his sleeves and started weaving them into the wider tapestry of the world. It's what he does.
love,
THO
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1393 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2014 :  10:41:43  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
(...) the Bedine (...) were created by Troy for that novel, and weren't what Ed originally had in Anauroch at all. (...)

Could you mention what was there originally, just to satiate our curiosity? I'll surely understand if it's not possible...

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
784 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2014 :  19:38:19  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message
Thanks THO! That's what I suspected! Hope you're keeping warm, Toronto is way too cold this winter!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2014 :  20:20:02  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Heh. Seravin, I quite agree. It's enough to make a gal keep her clothes on . . .
Barastir, remember the lifedraining Phaerimm, and the Sharn who kept them confined? Well, the Phaerimm were confined under Anauroch, and the surface above them was a vast dry desert (rock ice waste or "cold desert" in the north, but hotter and sandy just north of the Stonelands) roamed by monsters that could tolerate those conditions.
During the mid-1300s, the Zhentarim repeatedly tried to establish a short trade route between the mineral-rich Moonsea and Waterdeep, through the Dales and Cormyr, then through the Dales and the Stonelands, then through Teshendale and straight across Anauroch; they wanted the shortest and cheapest trade route, so they could undercut the prices and "get there first," beating all competitors and alternate routes, and they wanted to control the entire route (so, conquer the Dales and Cormyr, or avoid them) to prevent any other authority from charging taxes or tolls, and/or controlling the flow of goods.
There just weren't D'tareg and Bedine in the mix; the only humans Ed had were brigands living on the edges of the desert.
love,
THO
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1393 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2014 :  10:28:33  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message
Hi, THO! I haven't considered the underground, and in fact I didn't have this picture of a desert with such different features... I thought I read somewhere that Anauroch was a cold, rocky desert, and somehow I didn't understand how the Bedine would exactly fit in it (although I'd think they would adapt, since all deserts ARE cold in the night). Didn't know that the southern Anauroch was more like a "classic desert", but since it is a HUGE desert, it makes perfect sense. Thank you very much, dear!

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 11 Feb 2014 10:37:37
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13284 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2014 :  16:48:39  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
But I am SURE Ed pictured 'monsters' in there... and that is a VERY broad description (and could even include Zhents, in the broadest sense).

According to the Anauroch supplement, there is also an active gate from Krynn there, which means any of the nasty DL beasties could be there as well.

From pg.39 of FR13:
quote:
The Strange And The Unknown Desert wildlife is little known to outlanders, and new forms are being discovered constantly. There are even rumors that a magical gate has been opened somewhere in the northern Sword, linking Faerun with the world of Krynn: adventurers have reported meeting with hatori, horax, skrits, and even tylors there. Explorers are warned: just about anything may be met with in the desert! Of interest to outlanders (only due to their odd appearance) are curious "fuzzy crawling brains"; (as the adventurer Thayalin of Baldur's Gate aptly described them) seen after rainfalls. These are giant velvet earthmites: vivid, hand-sized, wrinkled, furry, red, crawling things. They are harmless, unintelligent, and inedible, and emerge during the rains to eat termites, mate, and then burrow back down under the sands until the next rains.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Feb 2014 16:49:47
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Blade of Beregost
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2014 :  17:27:57  Show Profile Send Blade of Beregost a Private Message
Wow, my first post after years of lurking! Let me start by saying a heartfelt "Thank you" to Ed (and the Lovely Lady Hooded One, of course) for the Realms, and the vast amount of Realmslore you've conveyed over the years. I look forward to many more years to follow!

Now, I know I'm a little behind the curve, but I recently read the Knights of Myth Drannor trilogy for the first time, and I got chills when, in Chapter 8 of Swords of Eveningstar, the wearer of the unicorn-head ring spied on the Crownsilvers speaking to Vangerdahast, and thought about how useful it was being the War Wizard responsible for enchanting scrying crystals. Something about that seemed familiar, and I flipped back to Chapter 7 to reread the line about "smiling, dagger-eyed Applethorn, master of wards and crystals."

WOW. That has to be the best foreshadowing (or possibly Chekov's Gun) I've seen since Timothy Zahn had Thrawn muse about cloning himself.

Anyway, not really a question as much as just praise. Loved the books, and eagerly awaiting the next tome!
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Thorn Illance
Seeker

53 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2014 :  23:48:50  Show Profile Send Thorn Illance a Private Message
Would a Ruby Ray of Reversal revert a Moon elf who had been apotheosied into a fiendish Moon elf via a potent eldricht rite back into a Moon elf? Just asking since I believe Ed created this spell.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2014 :  02:50:29  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Blade of Beregost, Ed thanks you for the kind words, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Ed's novels are full of little touches that link together diverse Realmslore from many writers and decades of publication - - not to mention foreshadow stuff we haven't seen yet, and won't see for a while. Sometimes I, as one of his players, have a hint, or enough to get that little chill you mentioned (my "Spidey sense" tingling, if you will) without knowing yet what's triggering it, that Ed's setting up something . . . and other times, I don't, and it's years later when something gets published that makes me say, "Hey! Wait a minute!" and turn and go burrowing back through my collection . . . to discover that Ed's done it again.
The irony is that Ed makes it all look so easy or natural or accidental that many overlook his skill as a writer, and trash his writing for not being sufficiently this or that. I spent some years as a book editor, and rank him very highly. He's also one of the nicest, most supportive, "plays well with others" writing professionals I've ever met.
And I am SO looking forward to his current projects seeing print. (One offbeat one: his second e-book Platter, will be coming out in a week or two [[ launched at his new website, theedverse.com ]], and it's erotica. Largely fantasy erotica, too, he tells me!
BTW, all scribes: if you want a fix of Ed speaking in his mellifluous tones, there are little videos at theedverse.com that show you a glimpse of Ed's writing lair . . .
love,
THO
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Blade of Beregost
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2014 :  12:26:30  Show Profile Send Blade of Beregost a Private Message
Thanks, THO! I'm tempted to pounce on that "tingling Spidey sense" comment, but I'm sure there's a line.

And one more note about the Knights trilogy, followed by a question. These books (and The Companions) gave me the impression that Mielikki was really good at playing the long game, which in turn made me think that of all the gods, which then gave me a new-found appreciation of how the Chosen must also always be thinking several (thousand!) moves ahead.

Anyway, my question for Ed. Goldghallow (author of the Rebel Prince and The Nymph Said No)...is there any more information about him? His dates, where he was from, any other works by him? One of my players has their character collect various naughty works (we have a running gag about a "bag of holding full of smut" whenever guards ask if they're carrying any contraband) and having some lore on an author would be great. Thanks!

Edited by - Blade of Beregost on 12 Feb 2014 14:35:43
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2014 :  18:41:26  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Well, as to his dates, Goldghallow dated the beautiful Sarilel of Suzail for a time, then . . .
Well, then my lore runs out.
Off to Ed your query goes, for the sort of dates you're really looking for, and everything else.
He's as busy a boy as ever, but we'll see.
love,
THO
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Blade of Beregost
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2014 :  18:57:52  Show Profile Send Blade of Beregost a Private Message
Every little bit of lore helps.
Speaking of which, I've got plenty of other lore to browse in the meantime.
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