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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14553 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2014 :  16:50:50  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
How close does the Southwood (below the High forest) come to Highstar Lake? I'm getting some conflict between certain old maps. I usually fall-back on the Karen Fonstad maps, but its hard to really tell how much space there is between them.

I recall a conversation (online... somewhere) where this was discussed, and presumably it was supposed to go right up onto the Moor. Does this mean that some forest grew back after the Dark Disaster, or somehow avoided being destroyed?

As an aside, I am starting to see the Delimbiyr as the border between Aryvandaar and Miyeritar, as the only 'break' between the old High Forest and the High Moor (which I assume was also forest, being a Green Elven realm). Could Highstar Lake have possibly been something contested or shared by them (before the conflict)? I could see it as a trade-center between the two powerful Eleven realms. And since I am on the subject, was Miyeritar a part of Shantel Othreir? It seems to have been surrounded by it. Or was it the other way around (likening it to how we had 'Rome', and then the rest of the Roman Empire all around it), and Miyeritar was the 'heart' of greater Shantel Othreir?

The main question is about the Southwood, though - the rest is just me trying to figure out borders for eventual historic maps (so no rush on any of that).

EDIT: Believe it or not, I actually edited the above (I went off on a speculative tangent). Anyhow, I just looked at the original 1e campaign setting map, and realized that the southwood was probably a contested region, because it fell between the two rivers. It may have survived if it was considered part of Shantel Othreir (putting t in a precarious position). I am still trying to figure out how Shantel Othreir was both on the coast and around the Tunlands, with two major empires in-between. I suppose Ardeep being a 'vassal state' can explain it (the way the United States and other countries have 'protectorates'). It just doesn't seem very 'Elvish', though, to exert influence over far-away realms. Then again, ancient Elves were very different (and much more warlike) then their current counterparts.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Oct 2014 17:03:46
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1253 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2014 :  17:26:05  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message
I always figured the Southwood was part of the High Forest.

--Eric

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

How close does the Southwood (below the High forest) come to Highstar Lake? I'm getting some conflict between certain old maps. I usually fall-back on the Karen Fonstad maps, but its hard to really tell how much space there is between them.

I recall a conversation (online... somewhere) where this was discussed, and presumably it was supposed to go right up onto the Moor. Does this mean that some forest grew back after the Dark Disaster, or somehow avoided being destroyed?

As an aside, I am starting to see the Delimbiyr as the border between Aryvandaar and Miyeritar, as the only 'break' between the old High Forest and the High Moor (which I assume was also forest, being a Green Elven realm). Could Highstar Lake have possibly been something contested or shared by them (before the conflict)? I could see it as a trade-center between the two powerful Eleven realms. And since I am on the subject, was Miyeritar a part of Shantel Othreir? It seems to have been surrounded by it. Or was it the other way around (likening it to how we had 'Rome', and then the rest of the Roman Empire all around it), and Miyeritar was the 'heart' of greater Shantel Othreir?

The main question is about the Southwood, though - the rest is just me trying to figure out borders for eventual historic maps (so no rush on any of that).

EDIT: Believe it or not, I actually edited the above (I went off on a speculative tangent). Anyhow, I just looked at the original 1e campaign setting map, and realized that the southwood was probably a contested region, because it fell between the two rivers. It may have survived if it was considered part of Shantel Othreir (putting t in a precarious position). I am still trying to figure out how Shantel Othreir was both on the coast and around the Tunlands, with two major empires in-between. I suppose Ardeep being a 'vassal state' can explain it (the way the United States and other countries have 'protectorates'). It just doesn't seem very 'Elvish', though, to exert influence over far-away realms. Then again, ancient Elves were very different (and much more warlike) then their current counterparts.


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe

Singapore
378 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2014 :  20:40:02  Show Profile Send Derulbaskul a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I always figured the Southwood was part of the High Forest.

--Eric


That's perfect... because that also justifies having Araumycos extend its spores and whatnot beneath Loudwater and the Southwood....

Cheers
D

NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here.
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1564 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2014 :  22:14:16  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message
Hi Ed, THO, Eric, Garen, Steven, George, everyone!

I have questions concerning the lost dwarven realm of Thunderholme. Namely, which clans inhabited its halls, and what did its coat-of-arms and badge look like?

And I'd be eternally grateful if there is there any unpublished lore and tidbits that you illustrious sages could share about this fallen realm!

"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14553 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2014 :  22:58:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I always figured the Southwood was part of the High Forest.
Well, I had been thinking in terms of 'times LONG past' (The Crown Wars), and who's side that bit of forest fell on, and why it managed to survive when the rest did not.

However, I since recalled a bit more about the earlier conversation, and it wasn't about that forest - it was about Highstar Lake itself.... it wasn't supposed to be IN the Moor, just up against it (the lake got moved further and further into it with each edition). Also, the Moor is not the same dimensions as the plateau - its the upper part of the moors that is the 'High Moor' - so the elves of Miyeritar literally 'looked down upon' everyone else. Talk about your 'high elves' (okay... I'll stop with the bad puns now).

I think I have it worked-out now (terrain-wise). I do have to wonder if the plateau itself was created by the Dark Disaster - did Miyeritar get covered, a' la Pompeii? Could the original kingdom be buried under there? Its riddled with caves and tunnels, and the place does have some weird physics going on (along with random and sometimes mobile 'gates' to the elemental planes). What effect did the Spellplague have on the High Moor? How about Rhymanthiin and the restoration of the Moor? Was that negated by the Spellplague? And if you can't tell us any of this (yet), will we at least find out what happened to prior, magically-effected locales in the near future? (in other words, can you at least hint if we are going to get some sort of Campaign Guide?)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Oct 2014 23:01:34
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1810 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2014 :  07:50:01  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message
Going back to little-known names of the 1350s, who runs Nulahh's in Immersea and what is the character of the place? Any interesting guests, or persistent rumors?
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2014 :  19:36:10  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
This time I bring answers from Ed of the Greenwood to createvmind: "Ok two more questions for Ed, Has Mystra ever had ANY of her Chosen deal with any Arch-devil or demon prince in regards to some plot where they worked WITH the fiends or have them intercede on BEHALF of fiends?
Second question, after Elminster awoke from stasis and learned the fate of Myth Drannor, did he have a vendetta against fiends or make it his business to go out his way to mess with them, especially yogoloths or did Mystra keep him occupied to again protect him from spending his life and silver fire?"

Heeeere's Ed:
To your first question: Yes. Several times. No, I'm not going to spill details right now; some of those tales may make good fiction in the future, and one of them is directly concerned with a tale that MIGHT soon unfold.
To your second: No. Except during his periods of out-of-control madness, El has pretty good self-control. As in, he may kvetch and snarl or flirt and fawn, but underneath his reactions of the moment he keeps in mind long-term consequences and strategic shifts more than almost any other sentient mortal operating in the Realms today. He can become enraged as the next guy, but has a lot more patience, and a lot more self-discipline, than most mortals.
And all of the Chosen further Mystra's ends far more than they play "promote good over evil." Some of them even (gasp) manipulate the Harpers... ;}

So saith Ed. Creator of the Realms and still its greatest loremaster.
love,
THO


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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2014 :  19:42:02  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
. . . And from my old notes, I can start to answer Asgetrion, re. this: "I have questions concerning the lost dwarven realm of Thunderholme. Namely, which clans inhabited its halls, and what did its coat-of-arms and badge look like?"
Its badge (not full blazon or coat-of-arms, just the badge) was an upright side-on hammer (pick end to the viewer's left, bludgeoning end to the viewer's right), with a three-zigzag lightning bolt running down the shaft or handle, superimposed on an open scroll (curled-over ends down both sides, paralleling the hammer shaft, no lettering visible on the scroll, the curled-over ends curling "toward" the viewer).
This was simplified, when scratched on hard rock, to a vertical lighting bolt with a pick end protruding from viewer's-left side of its top, and hammer end protruding from the viewer's-right side.
love,
THO
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1369 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2014 :  22:53:13  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message
Interesting that the badge has lightning in it. The dwarven axe Skysplitter was capable of calling down lightning to strike foes and was created there. And being as this hold is in the Thunder Peaks and Skysplitter was forged there, makes me think this could all be connected some way.

Edited by - Eilserus on 15 Oct 2014 18:43:41
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1564 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2014 :  23:02:18  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

. . . And from my old notes, I can start to answer Asgetrion, re. this: "I have questions concerning the lost dwarven realm of Thunderholme. Namely, which clans inhabited its halls, and what did its coat-of-arms and badge look like?"
Its badge (not full blazon or coat-of-arms, just the badge) was an upright side-on hammer (pick end to the viewer's left, bludgeoning end to the viewer's right), with a three-zigzag lightning bolt running down the shaft or handle, superimposed on an open scroll (curled-over ends down both sides, paralleling the hammer shaft, no lettering visible on the scroll, the curled-over ends curling "toward" the viewer).
This was simplified, when scratched on hard rock, to a vertical lighting bolt with a pick end protruding from viewer's-left side of its top, and hammer end protruding from the viewer's-right side.
love,
THO



A thousand thanks, milady!

"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe

Canada
147 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2014 :  05:38:43  Show Profile  Visit Knightfall's Homepage Send Knightfall a Private Message
Another question for Ed and THO, if I may?

What are the premium dwarven only establishments in Waterdeep? Inns, taverns, and the like? More specifically, is there a dwarven weaponsmithy in the city that is run by dwarves and caters mainly to dwarves (and, maybe, gnomes)?

Edited by - Knightfall on 16 Oct 2014 05:42:36
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2014 :  05:45:55  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Well Again THO and Ed,

Two sets of three questions each about Cormyr, in the year 1479 DR:

Firstly: some yes/no:

1. Along the length of the Ranger’s Way, between Waymoot and Dhedluk, does any part of the Way, the trees or brush nearby, the space above the road or the air all around, react in a visible manner (whether by physical movement, change in temperature, magical emanation or some other form of noticeable change) whenever a Royal passes through that part of the road?

2. “Bury Elminster Deep” notes that Lady Greatgaunt has forty-six almost identical sapphire-trimmed gowns. In terms of gowns-with-lots-of-gems-on-them ownership amongst noblewomen, is Lady Greatgaunt tops in terms of raw numbers of gem-filled gowns owned?

3. Are their festhall-type boats that sail out on the Wyvernwater that offer privacy and/or an anything goes atmosphere for paying clients?

Second, some general questions:

1. If a player character asked Arclath Delcastle what is the most haunted building in Suzail, excluding the Royal Court and Palace, and Arclath desired to give a truthful answer (to the limits of his knowledge), what would his answer be?

2. In terms of gardening in Suzail, is there a form of plant (grass, flower, weed, tree, bush, etc.) that no self-respecting gardener does without? If yes, could you please list its name?

3. Was there ever a time in Cormyr’s long history where a dwarf living in Suzail controlled more wealth than the sitting Cormyrean monarch of that time? If yes, is that dwarf still living as of 1479 DR?

As ever, thank you both very much.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 16 Oct 2014 19:15:34
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

530 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2014 :  14:34:58  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message
Gracious Lady, Revered Master,

What can you tell us about Star Elves? Were they created whole cloth for the novels? Do they exist in Ed's Realms? Did they replace another branch of lost elven people? Is there anything more of their history, society and culture that you can tell us?

Thanks!
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3602 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2014 :  14:48:30  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message
Hi Ed/THO, on a ever so slightly related note to Star Elves.


Where/how did the aquatic elves arrive on Faerun.

Did they exist in Faerie and then migrate to Faerun or did they arrive in Faerun as other types of elves and then transform themselves (or were transformed).

And if they were transformed could you give an indication of what time frame this occured in. I picked -26000 DR as a date out of the hat and made them appear in the Inner Sea first to avoid the dragon/giant wars around that time.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4949 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2014 :  01:29:43  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
"Sea of Fallen Stars" by Steven Schend gives information about how a host of elves transformed themselves into aquatic elves after the Crown Wars. Aquatic elves existed prior to that however.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 17 Oct 2014 05:52:29
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1412 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2014 :  02:51:29  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message
Elaine Cunningham's Evermeet, Island of the Elves also brings an origin for part of the sea elves, as much as an explanation for them having magical powers, since originally they had no magical talent, as it is seen in the old 2e Forgotten Realms Monstrous Compendiums.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3602 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2014 :  09:13:47  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message
Having read the Sea of Fallen Stars recently was what prompted my question about sea elves. In particular the fact that Dagon is supposedly imprisoned in a trench in the Alamber Sea by a sea elf. Also the fact that the origin stories of several races in the Sea of Fallen Stars being so familiar is curious as well.

Then thinking about the origin of the elves in Faerie, no mention was ever made of the sea elves as far as i know and the Seldarine were all members of the seelie court supposedly but again no mention of Deep Sashelas being included in that mix.

Then there is the presence of sea elves in the trackless sea but they seem to be relatively small in number and possible recent.

Its all very mysterious which is why i thought i'd ask Ed for a few of his theories.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking. I'll stop now.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14553 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2014 :  14:19:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
I don't want to clutter the thread, but here is how I picture stuff like this regarding the Elves: Elves are mutable - this is a recessive trait that comes from their Fey heritage. Unlike true fey, who can alter their size/shapes at will, Elves need a little 'divine boost' to get them on their way. Ergo, when they pray to deep Sashelas for help, he 'molds them' into a form that can survive beneath the waves. What he is really doing is tapping-into their hereditary abilities that they no longer have direct access to. The same things goes for all types of Elves (avariel were adapted land-bound elves, Drow were normal elves until Lolth adapted them for a subterranean existence, Lythari have been adapted or perhaps retained a piece of their Fey heritage and can take wolf forms, etc, etc). Thus, an elf can take many other (adaptive) forms, but only when they get a little boost from a god, or some other powerful magic.

And now, for a question: As I research something I am working on, I find the official lore rather sparse. Imagine a region slightly larger then Great Britain (ALL of it) with very little in the way of canon sources - thats the HIGH FOREST. What gives? Did you players just never make it very far into there? Or is there still some 'uber-secret' - one of those 'hidden bits of the Realms' that is being kept under wraps? Is there ANYTHING you can share that hasn't been told to us before? Some location, or group of people?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Oct 2014 00:54:51
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4949 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2014 :  00:21:15  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal


Then thinking about the origin of the elves in Faerie, no mention was ever made of the sea elves as far as i know and the Seldarine were all members of the seelie court supposedly but again no mention of Deep Sashelas being included in that mix.



The novel "Evermeet" (hardcover, pgs.95-96) is the first mention of aquatic elves that I have found in the lore. It implies that the aquatic elves were resident in Faerun before the arrival of the moon and gold elves from Tintageer in Faerie, and to my mind, not from there.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2014 :  20:45:33  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all. While I persist in not actually being Ed, I can make some beginnings of replies that he'll be able to properly answer when he gets the time.
To whit, these recent queries from Jeremy Grenemyer: "2. “Bury Elminster Deep” notes that Lady Greatgaunt has forty-six almost identical sapphire-trimmed gowns. In terms of gowns-with-lots-of-gems-on-them ownership amongst noblewomen, is Lady Greatgaunt tops in terms of raw numbers of gem-filled gowns owned?"

No, not by a long shot. She probably owns more lookalike gowns of one sort than any other current noblewoman, but many of the oldcoin families could amass together (including out-of-fashion and very old/dusty garments that probably won't be seen in public in normal circumstances again) hundreds of gem-adorned gowns, and in quite a few cases the sizes of family members permit one noble to wear a majority of them. As in, sixty or eighty or even more.

"3. Are their festhall-type boats that sail out on the Wyvernwater that offer privacy and/or an anything goes atmosphere for paying clients?"

I know of at least one pleasure barge, The Wild Wave, but my notes don't record owner or specifics. I remember that it's large and lit by many lamps during the dark hours.

"Second, some general questions: . . . 2. In terms of gardening in Suzail, is there a form of plant (grass, flower, weed, tree, bush, etc.) that no self-respecting gardener does without? If yes, could you please list its name?"

I know that the duskrose (a very dark red rose with cloudy gray undersides to its leaves - - hence its name - - a climbing creeper) is found on many, many gates and railings and balcony fronts, all over Suzail. Ed will of course provide a much better reply, in the fullness of time.

love,
THO
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2014 :  07:44:12  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Thank you THO for taking a stab at answering my last round of questions (esp. the gardening question). I appreciate it.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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createvmind
Senior Scribe

490 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2014 :  02:38:14  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Thanks
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Lyiat
Learned Scribe

91 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2014 :  05:45:18  Show Profile Send Lyiat a Private Message
I have an interesting question for He-of-the-Greenwood, though perhaps the Hooded One could share his/her own insight. All mythology and fantasy have their legendary smiths. In Earth, we have Wayland the Smith and Muramasa. In LotR, we have Celebrimbor. In Inheritance, we had Rhunön. So, who does the Realms have that matches these names?

"Stand and deliver, that my hamster might have a better look at you." ~ Minsc

Edited by - Lyiat on 21 Oct 2014 05:50:43
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4949 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2014 :  10:00:21  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
Musing on the history of Ed's Realms today and I was wondering about his playing group. Specifically, did the group who made up the Company of Crazed Venturers go on to become the Knights of Myth Drannor. If so, what prompted the change in group/campaign? Just curious is all.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 21 Oct 2014 11:02:49
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1944 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2014 :  19:25:58  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Lyiat

I have an interesting question for He-of-the-Greenwood, though perhaps the Hooded One could share his/her own insight. All mythology and fantasy have their legendary smiths. In Earth, we have Wayland the Smith and Muramasa. In LotR, we have Celebrimbor. In Inheritance, we had Rhunön. So, who does the Realms have that matches these names?




A related question, if I may. I too am very interested in the greatest weaponsmiths from the Realms, but not just swords and axes and armor. Can you also please ask Ed about the foremost bowyers and fletchers. I'm certain they are elves, but are there any that are particularly distinguished? I think I read somewhere that certain elven families excel at this, but cannot locate the reference atm.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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