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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 06:17:24
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I don't mean just a bunch of shou characters, but do you think the actual nation , shou lung, will make it back into the realms as a tangible interaction?
((side note does anyone know of any published adventures 3/3.5 E that uses shou lung as a major plot point?))
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 06:39:08
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If I had to bet then I would say yes, I think it will come back. Hopefully with a vengeance.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 11:25:55
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| Well I certainly hope so.Hopefully it will get some more attention than before as well. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 11:30:47
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| I'm expecting references to the nation and more on 'shou towns' but I don't think anything will be set within far eastern Faerun, let alone Shou Lung. As I recall Legend of the Five Rings was always the campaign setting of choice for eastern adventures - that's why they ditched Kara-Tur in favour of LotFR in 3.x Oriental Adventures. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 13:14:57
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Don't know - it should.
It was strangely replaced (in the D&D lineup) with Lo5R/Rokugon in 3e - one of 3e's biggest screw-ups, IMHO. Lot5R is a great setting, by why license a new one when they could have developed FR further? Just a really strange business decision, is all. I guess it was because that setting has its own fanbase, but whatever.
Kara-Tur is chock-full of potential. In fact, if the old 1e material was guilty of anything, it was that it had too much day-to-day details and not enough adventure hooks (although it did have plenty of those, but nothing compared to Faerūn). We are in desperate need of an update - the last thing we heard was that The Dragonwall blew-up during the Spellplague (which makes sense - the dragon's spirit must have finally broken free). I told Brian James my idea for what replaced it (a huge crevasse, with a volcanic lava-bridge arching over it) at Gencon2012. Not sure if has any input on 5e, or if he even remembered that, but I figure we have the chance now to replace the highly derivative wall with something pretty cool (the rock formation bridge has since been hollowed-out by the three different groups of dwarves in the area - building a city within the arch itself - and they charge a toll for passing through). Also, the bottom of the crevasse has a 'lava river', and although free passage over the top is possible, its not recommended - the fumes can kill you (as can passing out and falling off).
Also, I'd replace the Mongols... errr.. Tuigan... with something less derivative as well, like oriental Hobgoblins. Maybe even change their horses into something a bit more fantasyish, like 'dragon-horses'*, to stick with the OA theme. They already have a ready-made group of hobs in one of the 3eMM's (MM5). It seems like when they develop these other sub-settings, they always throw the non-humans in as an afterthought. I'd like to see them focusing more on humanoid regions moving forward.
*Dragon-Horse - Something like THIS.
Elite units could possibly have flying ones.
Grammatical Corrections |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Dec 2013 16:32:53 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 15:06:26
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| Yeah, 3E's replacement of Kara-Tur as the Oriental Adventures setting was just weird. I did not care for that one. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 16:41:37
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And more inter-connectivity between sub-settings. Maztica had a lot (due to the nature of its discovery), and Kara-Tur had some (not nearly as much as it should have), but Zakhara was barely mentioned in FR material, and vice-versa. Its bizarre - its actually pretty damn close to the Shining South!
EDIT: Sorry... thought I was in the map thread. Oh well, some of this still applies. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Dec 2013 16:45:27 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 17:09:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I told Brian James my idea for what replaced it (a huge crevasse, with a volcanic lava-bridge arching over it) at Gencon2012. Not sure if has any input on 5e
Alas, I have no input on the 5E Realms. Matt Sernett is the Realms "subject matter expert" at WotC these days, so it's pretty much Sernett and Wyatt forging the direction of the Realms at this point.
As for the topic at hand, I have a great fondness for Kara-Tur and all lands beyond Faerūn as evidenced by their inclusion in the Grand History. At Gen Con 2012, during the Forgotten Realms seminar, I asked James Wyatt to consider giving the various continents of Toril the same detailed treatment as given to the continents of Eberron. Sadly, his response wasn't very encouraging. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 17:34:16
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Yup, I remember that as well.
It amounted to, "its possible... when pigs fly". 
However, since he said it was all based upon the new (post-Sundering) FR's success and popularity (and what sort of products those fans were screaming for - lots of variables there), then I guess this is a catch-22 situation:
If we really like what we see, we will see more of what we like. Unfortunately, that means EVERYTHING depends upon that initial release. How will we know what we like when they aren't producing it? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Dec 2013 17:35:41 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11711 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 18:05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I told Brian James my idea for what replaced it (a huge crevasse, with a volcanic lava-bridge arching over it) at Gencon2012. Not sure if has any input on 5e
Alas, I have no input on the 5E Realms. Matt Sernett is the Realms "subject matter expert" at WotC these days, so it's pretty much Sernett and Wyatt forging the direction of the Realms at this point.
As for the topic at hand, I have a great fondness for Kara-Tur and all lands beyond Faerūn as evidenced by their inclusion in the Grand History. At Gen Con 2012, during the Forgotten Realms seminar, I asked James Wyatt to consider giving the various continents of Toril the same detailed treatment as given to the continents of Eberron. Sadly, his response wasn't very encouraging.
That's kind of sad to me (actually, that's very sad to me). I can't think of a single thing for the realms done by Matt Sernett. I recognize the name, but that's about it. When I query him on the web I see Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave, but to tell the truth, that wasn't a resource that compelled me. I also see Tome of Magic, which I loved the binder but still felt it needed work... and the other two classes were broken.
James Wyatt, I know was involved with the city of the Spider Queen adventure module, which was awesome, but I'm drawing a blank on any other FR stuff he's done. When I query him on the web, I do see Player's Guide to Faerun, but I also see Rich Baker taking top billing. I also see Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave, but again wasn't extremely fond of it. At least he was involved with 2 resources that I'd say were very well done in 3e.
Yet, I don't see either of those people here (that I know of mind you, they could be in under an alias), and truthfully, anyone I've respected in the realms.... I've usually found them ending up posting here on occasion at least (Elaine, Ed, E. Boyd, S. Schend, G. Krashos, Brian James, R.L. Beyers, Paul Kemp, Mel Odom, Clayton Emery, etc...). Its kind of why I like Candlekeep, because the authors/designers can talk to you like a regular person. Granted, maybe there's some difference between "employee" and "freelancer" that might prevent them from coming here. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Tetra_koiwai
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 18:26:34
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| Pretty sure the shou are gonna make it over, I mean in 5E it seems that they personally acknowledged oriental blades (katana wakazi etc) so it's very likely that the shou will start to be more open and connected to stuff. I just hope we get some Chaotic aligned monk classes or something. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 19:57:54
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Right... in Shou towns.
What some of us really want to see is something on Kara-Tur, even if it is in an 'Other Realms' section after the main geography section of the CG (a'la The Inner Sea World Guide by Paizo).
If they do the adventure-path approach to FR (which I am not sure would even work for FR, which is more 'sandbox' then Golarion), then we may get lucky, and somewhere along the lines we might see an 'Oriental' adventure. Perhaps something that would take us across the wastes and on into Shou-Lung and maybe even Wa/Koza-Kura. That would be neat.
However, the tail-end of 3e and 4e went out of their way to bring all sorts of flavors closer to the Heartlands (Shou towns, Thayan Enclaves, Maztican immigrants mentioned in a GHotR blurb, etc). The idea was NOT to develop the rest of the world, but rather, drop it all onto our doorstep. Good, perhaps, for D&D, but not so great for the meta-story that is FR (too 'kitchen sinkish', IMHO).
Thus, we will undoubtedly get Shou, but will most-likely not get shou-Lung. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Tetra_koiwai
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 20:06:48
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surely I'm not the only guy other than lee bryes who likes the idea of flying ships.
you could just simply rent a flying ship to fly you to wherever you want to go in FR, Hell it's not as if baba yaga's hut is gonna come outta nowhere and crash into a flying ship, Who would possibly mess up the flight other than MAYBE a dragon, It's safe easy, and as soon as it becomes affordable you could have all kinda of adventures. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 22:33:49
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Ed had portals/gates EVERYWHERE, so every adventure opportunity was just "right next door".
In 3e, they rotated and shrank the map to eliminate all the empty areas. Then 3e preceded to fill-in all the existing regions with stuff (but never finished). 4e decided there was too much civilization everywhere, and we needed more 'empty areas', so they nuked the crap out of everything. Then they got rid of the portal network, and had to bring everything closer again because everything was too far away. So bizarre.
Every time they get a 'good idea', they have to spend anther edition fixing whatever it was they broke the last time. Just a paragraph or two about 'getting around' could have saved us so much headache.
Oh... and I just realized something. They didn't nuke FR; they nuked 3eFR, which is completely different world! I can prove it - just compare the maps; its not even the same planet.
Thank heavens OUR FR is still safe out there somewhere (probably hiding from the WotC guys). All they did was blow-up that nasty 3e FR wanna-be world. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Dec 2013 22:35:08 |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2013 : 14:00:25
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| Yeah, if they could update the maps we saw in the Forgotten Realms Atlas (which encompassed both Faerun and Kara-Tur) I'd be a very happy man. Higher resolution, more detail and it would go a lot of the way to restoring the issues Markustay mentioned. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2013 : 15:16:09
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You want to know something funny I discovered awhile back?
When you try to paste the 3eFR campaign map onto the world map on pg.231 of the 3e FRCS, it doesn't fit. You know why? Because that map is based upon the older (FRIA) maps, and the new maps simply do not work with it - you can't link Faerūn with the rest of the continent anymore (at least not without a LOT of tweaking!)
Thats why we haven't seen anything about those other sub-settings since 3e - they screwed-up in major way. They can't connect them, so its all a big mess. Because of how they squished things, you can't get it to line-up with the Hordleands, or anything else for that matter. They need to revert to the older geography in order to fix the maps... but they won't. Their plan is to continue forward with the completely broken one, which means we CAN'T get to see how Faerūn relates to the rest of the world.
They must have realized this back in 3rd edition - the two world maps we got with 3e do not work together; that was an epic mistake right from the beginning (of 3e). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2013 : 16:11:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You want to know something funny I discovered awhile back?
When you try to paste the 3eFR campaign map onto the world map on pg.231 of the 3e FRCS, it doesn't fit. You know why? Because that map is based upon the older (FRIA) maps, and the new maps simply do not work with it - you can't link Faerūn with the rest of the continent anymore (at least not without a LOT of tweaking!)
Thats why we haven't seen anything about those other sub-settings since 3e - they screwed-up in major way. They can't connect them, so its all a big mess. Because of how they squished things, you can't get it to line-up with the Hordleands, or anything else for that matter. They need to revert to the older geography in order to fix the maps... but they won't. Their plan is to continue forward with the completely broken one, which means we CAN'T get to see how Faerūn relates to the rest of the world.
They must have realized this back in 3rd edition - the two world maps we got with 3e do not work together; that was an epic mistake right from the beginning (of 3e).
I don't think it had anything to do with that. They changed maps and continuity readily enough with 3E that making more changes to subsettings wouldn't have been an issue. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2013 : 16:31:36
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I tried to fix the weirdness that was going on when we tried to connect the sub-settings (K-T, AQ, and Hordelnds) back to the 3e map, but gave up (my maps having all burned had a lot to do with that, though).
It would take some major-league finnagling to fix all that, is all I'm saying. We lost a bunch of stuff on the old maps when they tweaked them for 3e, and we'd just get more of that by trying to continue forward with that mistake. There's just not enough land left to the eastern edge of the map to get everything to work properly (and leave old-edition Hordelands, K-T, and Zakhara the same).
It is possible to simply shrink-down both the Hordelands and the Utter east, I suppose, but that would be a shame. I think it would just be better if the 5e maps reflected the old geography rather then the the 3e/4e geography.
And now you have me curious as to how any of that would work out...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Dec 2013 16:32:29 |
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do you think shou lung will come back in 5e?
