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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Dec 2013 : 14:59:22
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| That's an interesting take. Considering all the strange stories about Atlantis and Lemuria and how they blew themselves up ages ago, I'd be inclined to say the gods disappeared around then too! |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2013 : 23:21:16
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| Well, Earth may not have a "Weave" of magic, but it DOES exist- there are ley lines, for example, which are threads of energy that run through various places, sometimes even concentrated into "wells" of power. Places like Stonehenge are situated on such wells, and many of our most potent symbolic places are built over ley lines. Even many natural sites are "places of power" for those who know how to sense it. This is coming from a Wiccan, so I know a bit about the subject. And there ARE still gods here- it's just that most of them are so little known or revered now that they have lost much of their "divinity" or power as it were. But it's still there, if you know where and how to look for it.... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2013 : 04:44:07
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Perhaps it's like in American Gods -- as the faithful turned to other gods, or placed their faith in non-divine replacements such as technology -- the power of the old gods waned.
As for magic, I've long thought that either A) it exists but knowledge of how to access it has been lost, or B) it exists but knowledge of it has been deliberately suppressed, either by those who oppose it, or by those who possess it. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2013 : 07:32:33
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If we are talking Fantasy Our Earth...then I think those who HAVE magic are rare and few (and far between) who rule the world through puppets. There could be no real opposition to magic unless it is overt. Behind the scenes used magic (such as charming someone with a spell before you ever walk up to them so that they are under your spell before they even know it...and if they somehow oppose your attempt to charm them, they wouldn't know what just happened anyway!) would be nearly impossible to oppose on any level...it is something that defies the limits of known technology here on earth.
If we are talking Real Our Earth...I don't believe in magic any more than I believe in Gods...because for one to exist I think the other would have to exist as well...and so I see no evidence of either. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2013 : 07:53:18
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quote:
B) it exists but knowledge of it has been deliberately suppressed, either by those who oppose it, or by those who possess it.
I believe this is Ed's take on the subject...that magic exists on Earth but is kept secret by those who practice it.
As to the OP...your take is as good an explanation as any. Personally, I would view them as having a presence on many worlds...just not a very strong one here due to few worshipers these days. They would still exist on other worlds/planes. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2013 : 08:53:07
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Well since the fantasy version of earth is essentially the same as the real version of earth except that the legends such as king arthur are deemed to have actually existed then Dalor stating there is no magic or gods follows the same thought as mine.
The reason i see this world as faulty compared to Toril is that the myths and legends from long ago do depict magic. The greeks and the titans show a fair amount of magic. The egyptians also depict resurrection and spells and great deeds. But as time goes on these become less and less. King arthur is the most recent one i can think of in british history and that all revolves around Merlin, Morgana and excalibur being the only magic available.
So i figure that magic did exist on earth but it never replenished itself like on Toril. It wasnt all pervasive either, it didnt saturate the environment. Instead it clustered in people and places and indeed it could be concentrated deliberately - ley lines being one method, achilles is an example of another method (using that bath to make him invulnerable).
Gradually these magical beings - the greek gods, the atlanteans, the egyptian gods - they all left for other worlds or were killed. And the magical places were destroyed, even the magical items were lost. So essentially earth becomes a magic dead world. That doesnt mean its all gone but its at such a low level you will never find it.
Now since it was a low magic world the gods were never really gods, just really powerful people with awesome abilities. There was never enought magic to allow transfer of belief into power for a divine being, the connection couldnt be maintained.
I dont think the gods were abandoned for technology. The magic stories cease long before technology advanced beyond swords and shields, and as on Toril, why would you spend vast amounts of money and time researching technology which is dangerous and prone to malfunction when magic will do the same thing for you.
So people turned to technology because the gods and magic disappeared. Not the other way around. What little magic is left is probably in the form of a magic item, or a random nutter able to manifest a tiny cantrip, but nothing like on Toril. It probably would be hoarded and controlled if only for its value.
This has also got me thinking about some of the inconsistencies for supposed pantheon transfer from earth to toril.
I reckon the imaskari planar barrier didnt block the gods in the way we think. Instead it simply stopped them shifting planes and travelling to Toril the easy way (or telelporting or any other magical means), the mulhorandi gods werent really gods so there was no divine connection to block, but they could still use their magical abilities and shift to the astral plane and then shift to toril.
So the Imaskari blocked this and made the mulhorandi gods travel here the hard way in a spaceship - which also explains why the egyptian gods are no longer present on earth, they physically left.
Once they arrived on Toril they battered the Imaskari, but didnt ascend - not because of the barrier but because their own people didnt believe enough. Yes the mulhorandi gods beat up on their kidnappers, but the kidnappers were capable of such awesome feats of magic that their supposed gods couldnt really be gods after all.
I dont think any of the people from earth ever truly believed, its not in their nature. They havent grown up with real gods, they just grew up with powerful people walking among them, so everything they witness on Toril just reinforces the fact that these are people with powers, not gods.
Possibly to survive, the mulhorandi gods took to becoming possessing spirits, jumping from one body to the next. Only during the time of troubles did the mulhorandi and untheri peoples realise that these may have been real gods, cast down to earth by an even greater power and so that belief propelled the mulhorandi gods to real godhood.
Maybe the Mulhorandi gods themselves chose not to ascend when they arrived but remained bound to the material plane on purpose - afraid of what actual godhood would do to their personality.
But ascension i think is the real reason the other gods migrated from earth to toril, they could do something in toril that could not be achieved on earth.
Where the stories double up (such as tyr and Fenris and Tyr and Kezef) i reckon thats just a Tyr worshipper from Toril coming back over to earth and bringing the story with them and the earth people just changed the names.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2013 : 16:42:26
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| There are several ''Earth'' with different levels of magic, our Earth is without magic or gods (probably), then there's Aerth, Oerth, Learth ... |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2013 : 20:54:31
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
My own personal theory is that earth is broken or dying. Magic no longer exists and so neither do the gods.
The problem with that is that magic on Earth (as it exists in D&D) works just fine. None of the D&D characters visiting Earth ever had any problems with their magic.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
In fact I think there was never enough magic for gods. All the so called gods that existed here: the greek, egyptian, sumerian, norse pantheons etc were all really just super powerful beings that wandered here from other places
Which basically covers every D&D deity. And yes, Earth's deities are in D&D and actually considered to be more powerful pantheons than the D&D world's pantheons.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
If u read the stories and history of these beings it is like a soap opera and not events that happen to metaphysical beings of belief. They get poisoned, stabbed, resurrected even imprisoned.
So just like the faerunian pantheon?
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Edited by - Mirtek on 16 Dec 2013 20:56:14 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2013 : 09:02:14
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The problem with the various pantheons as we are now finding out with 4e and probably 5e. Beings that were considered gods are now revealed not to be gods at all, but exarches, primordials, and other weird random assortments of titles.
So given that the akadi, grumbar, kossuth, and the other one are not gods, neither was ubtao. Shar and Selune were both revealed to have been born in the time of primordials and so were likely primordials themselves.
All these beings with soap stories attached to them turned out to have not been gods originally, which is why i propose that the earth gods were also not gods at all.
After all, how do you imprison a metaphysical being (Eilistraee during the seldarine/anti seldarine war). How does a metaphsical being with no body lose his hand (Tyr). How do you kill a metaphysical being that is really just a manifestation of people's beliefs and ideas (That egyptian god of the dead).
This stuff cant happen to gods because they have no single body for it to happen to, they can have multiple avatars and can make themselves appear however they want. This stuff had to happen to real people.
An example of an event that did happen to gods is the dawn cataclysm. There are no details on it because no person witnessed it, no one is able to understand what happened because it was a metaphysical event, and so we just have the name of an event and what bits effect the people on the planet.
So all these human deities on earth that ran around slaying monsters and each other and warring with primordials (the greeks) and having children. These were all events that were witnessed and that happened probably because the "gods" were not gods at all, just powerful beings that wandered the earth and may have even decided to live on the planes when the fancy took them, but they had no connection with worshippers.
There has to be a reason why all the gods suddenly left, why magic is no longer around and why every "god" seems to have wandered off to Toril or other worlds and suddenly disappeared from earth. And this is the only explanation i can think of that works. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2013 : 14:38:57
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Simple.
We have been told that 'D&Dearth' is NOT the same as RW Earth. Its like 'Marvel Earth', or 'DC Earth' (actually, there are MANY of both os those, but you get the idea).
We did get a glimpse at Victorian-era D&Dearth in The Gothic Earth Gazeteer. Very good book - I highly recommend it (for people who like that sort of 'alternate reality' thing.)
On D&Dearth, the gods are/were very real, as were/are monsters. Think of it as a place where Buffy, Supernatural, Underworld, Sanctuary, Warehouse13, etc, etc, are all the reality. Its the world Doctor Who shows up on, that will one day develop the United Federation of Planets, and where a group of children stumbled into a magical wardrobe.
Thats the D&Dearth, not this one. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2013 : 14:53:56
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D&Dearth is a low-magic world (it follows more along the lines of the RL rules in this regard).
Your supposition is that gods and magic never existed here... and I find that offensive.
But seriously, you forget to factor-in the Catholic Church, which did everything within its power to eradicate any form of 'alternative knowledge' that fell outside its purview. The Church was to magic (and other religions) what oil companies today are to alternative energy sources - they stop at nothing to obliterate people's acceptance of them. That people no longer believe in such things could simply mean they have a VERY good propaganda dept. A world without such a church (and without the fall of Constantinople, Alexandria, etc) may have looked very different to us - we may not have developed along the lines we did at all. It only takes one major incident to redirect the course of history (like The Hindenburg) - you assume that our path was 'the right one'.
You actually hit upon a sore spot for me - if I ever get a chance to write a novel series, I already have it all planned-out, and its about such a world - a world where things went quite a different route. You are correct that everything would have gone differently, but it could still be recognizable. Take the His Dark Materials series (The Golden Compass) - it takes place on one such alternate Earth. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Dec 2013 15:08:35 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2013 : 16:37:51
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Well, if we factor-in the Gothic Earth stuff, along with all sorts of medern TV and book tropes, and throw in some good, old-fashioned conspiracy theories, then what we have its plenty of people developing all sorts of wild talents... who are then captured by Govt's, or taken into 'secret societies'.
Think 'underground', or even The Matrix or MIB. There are the 99.9% of the people of Earth who are all blissfully unaware, and think everything the see on the News is reality, and then there is the other .1% who realizing its all an illusion, and there is so much more going on 'beneath the surface'.
Thus, 'the gods' may still be around, but because they are no-longer being actively worshiped (in any large degree), they have very little power. One of the few Supernatural episodes I liked focused on these 'fallen gods'. As we loose belief in these things, they lose power, and we are on the cusp of loosing them entirely.
As jack Sparrow said when the Kraken died, "World's still the same. There's just less in it. "
So you may look at it that there are no gods and magic, and thats why the world is the way it is, or that there is/was gods and magic, and that's why the world is the way it is. A 'fact' is just something another human being has arrived at, and shared with us. It doesn't actually make it true.
You ever notice when 'scientists' are trying to prove something, and the tests are 'inconclusive', they continue to run tests. Eventually (usually) they find a test that arrives at the results they wanted... and then they stop testing. why doesn't anyone EVER question THAT? The world isn't what we think it is - the world is what we've been told it is.
Question EVERYTHING. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2013 : 15:39:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
We have been told that 'D&Dearth' is NOT the same as RW Earth.
How comes Greenwood lives there then? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2013 : 16:17:31
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He is not the same Ed Greenwood. In fact, since the Ed that receives information on The Realms is still alive, a hundred years later, it couldn't possibly be. 
But both Ed's live within a planer nexus - a region where the 'veil between worlds' is very thin. Thus, all the things that other Ed (on D&Dearth) learns about the Realms comes to our Ed in dreams, and he created the Forgotten Realms that way (or so he thinks).
See? Anything can be fixed. It magic!!! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Dec 2013 16:18:06 |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2013 : 17:51:04
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Okay, so as the resident 'Earth/Realms crossovers loving guy' I really have to comment on this thread. I've just been a bit busy. More to come later, some short replies now.
1) Our (well Ed's) Earth was only ever said not to be the 'real' Earth owing to the 'Satanic Panic' of the 1980's and 1990's. You know, the one that gave us 'Baatezu' and 'Tanar' ri' as well. In grand LoTR fashion it is really supposed to be us.
2) Magic isn't fully 'broken' on Earth, it just a) lacks the Weave to boost it and b) has very few natural practitioners left. The Weave suffuses the Realms in what might think of as 'heavy magic' (if the Netherese will excuse my slang) whereas we've got only the 'light' version that exists residually in and around living beings, supernatural things and places, ley lines and what not. The Power isn't in use as there are few/none 'pagan' deities left to provide such power to their worshippers. The Art requires people with natural (i.e. genetic) predisposition for overt magic mastery (or even just 'wild talents') and most folks left here don't have it (and/or those that do never figure out how to use it). Spellcasters coming to Earth either draw on their own natural reservoir of magic (the Chosen, the most frequent visitors, and their Silver Fire) or are able to tap into the low end reserves still around.
3) Maybe this has something to do with me being Catholic, but I don't 'blame' the church for the gradual abandonment of 'pagan' faiths over the millennia. Putting aside my personal belief which obviously conflicts with the notion of fantasy deities, it is a little unfair to blame Christianity for 'winning' the European 'faith war' when varied religious dogmas have been at war with one another since time immemorial. One culture has gods, it conquers another, it tries to impose its gods. That is sort of how it works. Early Christians were subjected to a war of absolute extermination by the varied pagan faiths of the early to late Roman Empire, and Christians survived (quite unexpectedly) because their religion was simply more dynamic than many of the alternatives, and caught a lucky break or two with a key Emperor or two during the decline of the Empire such that it was in place to serve as the main safeguard of higher knowledge and source of European cultural commonality during the Dark Ages.
You also can't accuse Christianity of purging all of the other faiths in the world, when the world still has several other major religions (a couple of whom may very well have more members than it day to day) - religions that have also taken a narrow view of people believing in gods other than their own. Finally, to accuse Christianity of wiping out the other gods is to ignore the largest force responsible for the decline faith in our world, rationalism. In the two generations I've been alive we have seen a massive decline of religiosity in Western society. A decline that has its roots all the way back in the post Black Death era of European history.
So, to some extent 'science' has replaced 'magic' more than anything else. Now, I will grant that the rise of Christianity in Europe aided in the decline of many pagan faiths (as noted in that scene from 'Excalibur' that I love quoting), but let's not get carried away with modern revisionist thinking and blame the church for anything and everything in this sphere. That's all I'm saying.
4) My personal favorite fantasy explanation for Earth's lack of open magical forces, talent, creatures and what not is the one used by Weiss and Hickman in their 'Darksword Trilogy' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darksword). We used to have it, things got bad for its practitioners, they relocated it elsewhere, it is bottled up on one (or a few) worlds in a much more concentrated form, as a primal force of nature it will eventually defeat all attempts to confine it and return to us (and the rest of the universe). |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
Edited by - Kris the Grey on 21 Dec 2013 17:52:26 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2013 : 03:12:10
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I'll chime in by sharing how I view magic in the multiverse and share a little secret from my homebrew game.
First, each world could be said to have a magic 'rating' with 0 being no magic whatsoever and 10 (or whatever scale you want to use) being a very strange world/plane in which entire planets (or the plane itself) can be living/self-aware/highly intelligent and evolved and even the simplest of life forms are capable of spell-like abilities. Our world is simply lower on the scale...though not a 0 as 'evidenced' by strange occurrences (such as people surviving impossible situations that might be explained as tapping into some unseen primal force), faith healing (making the assumption that not all of them are charlatans), and bizarre phenomena (Bermuda Triangle stuff).
Second, in my homebrew I assume that Toril is higher than average on the scale. However, the sheer amount of 'high magic' in use throughout Toril's history should have depleted much of this resource over the millenia...a resource that is slow to rejuvinate (if it does at all, I assume that it does given sufficient time). But, my homebrew explanation for the continued level of magical strength in the world is that there is a powerful (ELDER) artifact that siphons magic from hundreds (likely thousands) of worlds/planes in the multiverse. This magic is stored and used by all practitioners of The Art, whether they know it or not. Granted, none of them tap the artifact DIRECTLY (well, most do not...Mystra and some [not all] of her Chosen do as did Azuth). Mystra is intimately connected to this device. Note: Magic would still function without this artifact, it would just deplete over time in my homebrew. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2013 : 18:56:06
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I note that some of the divine pantheons worshipped on (ancient) Earth were said to come from other worlds. D&D even specifies “Alternate Prime Material Plane“ as the planar domain of a few.
Religions change, they compete, they war, sometimes they destroy each other. Sometimes they merge. Every mainstream religion on Earth today draws heavily from formative “pagan“ influences, even if their official doctrines attempt to deny, occlude, or condemn such stuff.
Many of the ancient (and current!) religious rituals and practices resemble fantasy magic to a surprising degree. Perhaps not so surprising when we remember that D&D was originally inspired by our own myths and structured to simulate them in an Earthlike fantasy setting. And there are people all over our world today with unshakeable faith in miracles and manifestations of the divine. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 24 Dec 2013 18:59:08 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2013 : 18:10:57
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Well, I take each of the Earth pantheons and say that they are all began elsewhere - each pantheon is from a world where that 'family' of gods reigned supreme. Then these pantheons - out of boredom or a lust for more power expanded into other worlds. In some cases they supplanted local pantheons, in others they were eliminated, but more often then not members merged and formed a new pantheon consisting of the surviving members.
And thats how I think it all works. All deities above the local/demi- category will try to expand into other spheres eventually. Some are just more cautious about it then others.
On 'primitive' (primal) worlds, deities haven't really arisen to prominent positions. Most tribes will only have exalted (ascended) mortal ancestor spirits. True deities will not come about until civilization has allowed for mass-worship of certain gods. Thus, the best worlds for these interlopers to 'invade' would be these more primitive ones, because they have little in the way of competition.
Eventually, it is the goal of every god to rule over his own sphere (much like Ao) and become an Overgod, which we on Earth do with our Monotheistic leanings. (Not to ruffle any feathers, this would mean other 'big players' in the Bible, Koran, Torah, Rigveda, etc...would all fall into the 'deity' classification, and not be what we - on Earth - consider 'real gods').
At least, thats how I look at the whole thing. The one thing about Planescape I didn't like was that it continued with the silly, 'classic pantheon' notion, when I think of these pantheons as local 'clubs' wherein specific groups tend to hangout (but being gods, they can create multiple avatars, and be in more then one 'club' at the same time). Our mortal concept of pantheons is skewed by our beliefs, and I think the Great Wheel is just one huge mega-pantheon. They all interact far more then we think they do (under various aliases, which is why mortals never know the truth).
As for Earth, one being (whatever you want to call it) has risen to that Overgod position, and is a bit of tyrant ("My god is a jealous god"). Thus, most of our modern (main) religions place these 'deities' into the secondary roles of archangels, angels (devas), kami (spirits), totems, and even demons (Oni). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Dec 2013 18:13:09 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2013 : 22:39:08
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Silly or not, Planescape lore presented a decent framework to accommodate an endless number of pantheons. The grand logic behind it all being that Powers were loathe to (often) risk themselves venturing away from the domains, worlds, and places which granted them their divinity, immortality, and power. The pantheons essentially isolated themselves by necessity, they had far too much competition (within and without their pantheons) to reasonably expect good odds of survival outside of their power bases. The largest and most successful pantheons somehow constructed or inhabited multiplanar conduit devices like Yggdrasil, Mount Olympus, and networks of unholy rivers which spanned and connected disparate planes, allowing the pantheon (and its worshippers) to better access these planes.
Polytheistic (and henotheistic) pantheons are not less valid than monotheistic godheads, and I'm of the opinion that the Realms and D&D worlds in general are richer, more fantastic places because of their inclusion. We've already seen what happens to the Realms when only one god or goddess overshadows all others in importance.
As far as the "soap opera" of the gods goes: it's really just part of what happens in any dynamic mythology. The same held true of our ancient Egyptian, Greek, and Norse pantheons - they changed over time in response to a changing world, figures rose and faded, they bickered over petty things and exaggerated all the base follies of humanity on grandly divine scales. Again, the Realms is a richer place because of it, and I welcome Faerűnian mythology of any sort which doesn't leave behind a wake of craters and corpses. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2013 : 16:24:27
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I only meant that one aspect of it - I am a HUGE Great Wheel/Planescape fan.
I just see them being a bit more cosmopolitan then past lore lets on. Some of these beings have been around for tens (hundreds?) of thousands of years - it seems a bit... silly (thers that word again) to think they never 'venture out'. Sure, bein safe is great and all, but c'mon... curiousity has to come into pay somehow.
You don't think Thor would want to find out abut another 'Thunder God'? That someone like Loki wouldn't be 'wheeling & dealing' in the planes? I just don't see them as 'homebodies', is all. Sure, they may leave an avatar or three in Asgard (or wherever), but they should want to be more active in the Outer Planes. Even the modrons should want to expand - its the nature of a 'hive mind'. Even if you are a stay-at-home god, wouldn't you need to form alliances (beyond your own pantheon) just to keep other (greater) gods from interfering with you? If mortals (their souls) are the 'great resource' of the universe, there should be some really cut-throat gods out there trying to usurp other deity's worshipers (and not just the ones from their own pantheon).
So, if they do bring back the Planescape cosmology (and I truly hope they do), I hope they do take this broader view - that 'the gods' are part of a multiverse, and should be represented as such. And, of course, they should bring-in someone like Shemmy to fix all the inconsistencies 4e caused - the Outer Planes are a right mess these days. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2013 : 22:55:18
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While most Powers tend to be prudent, and many are downright timid, there‘s always a few who venture outwards and manage to expand their faith. Tyr is a popular example; he established himself as a major deity in the Realms, far beyond the normal scope of his Norse brethren. Realmslore describes Tyr‘s epic arrival and subsequent actions, but it doesn‘t speak of Tyr‘s actual reason for being there. Did he righteously smite his way across the planes to smite out great injustice? Did he arrive by accident, perhaps misdirected by Loki, waylaid by another Power, was he irrestibly grounded by Ao, hunting for that pesky old Fenris/Kezef wolf, or even just misplace an opportunistic avatar?
I‘m not saying Planescape lore is perfect by any means, indeed learning that the myths and deities which shaped your world are just one mediocre little group out of many must be disconcerting to anyone. Yes, planars tend to have a more cosmopolitan outlook on things, any child in Sigil knows more planeslore than many sages in Faerun ... but planars know (and want to know) almost nothing about Primes. I wonder if Powers magnify this ignorance to godly levels. |
[/Ayrik] |
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No gods in earth
