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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Dec 2013 : 17:23:24
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So I have some maps of Cerilia (Birthright campaign setting), and they are really bad scans that came with pdf's (LEGAL pdf's I got awhile back from Paizo, when they were still carrying old TSR stuff, or from amongst the free stuff WotC used to offer.) I can't read a lot of the small print on those maps, and the few maps I can find on the 'net aren't any better (probably derived from those same bad scans). Anyone know of any really good fan-made ones? Or perhaps if someone owns the originals, they could scan some of that for me?
Sadly, the worst ones are of Khinasi, and thats the area I need. I can't make out the names of most settlements. There are some close-ups of many areas, but not of the Plains States. I've merged those parts of Cerilia into my Garund/Chult amalgam in my Misbegotten Realms (and thats my tie-in to FR, because Wooly is bound to ask for that connection). 
They have a 'Moorish' vibe, and they fit well with other things I have going on there (like Turmish).
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Dec 2013 17:24:35
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2013 : 18:22:32
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My pdfs are the same low resolution as yours, Markus, the fine details aren‘t legible.
Where else were these maps printed? I can scan them for you, if I have any. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Renin
Learned Scribe
USA
290 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2013 : 18:27:03
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| Sorry; even when I blow up my pdf of Cities of the Sun, I can kinda make out what the names are, but there are many that are just gobbedy-gook. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2013 : 18:45:43
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Yeah, thats the source I am looking through. All I wanted was a little 'filler' and never expected to run into these problems. I've never seen such a poorly supported official D&D setting - its fanbase must have been near zilch. 
@Ayrik - they would have come in any of the Birthright (physical) books. Cities of the Sun is the one I am focusing on right now. I guess I won't be using any more of Cerilia (or, at least, not the under-developed parts). Some regions got great detail and there own sourcebooks, but the Khinasi region was a real gloss-over.
It looked like there was a lot of potential there - too bad they took it too far down a different path then the rest of D&D. As is, it looks like an over-indulgent version of a resource-dependent military boardgame. Ah well.... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2013 : 00:35:17
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Ohhhhhh.. thats lubberly.
Thanks DD.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2013 : 00:51:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Ohhhhhh.. thats lubberly.
Thanks DD.
No problem...one of my favorite campaign worlds. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Renin
Learned Scribe
USA
290 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 04:13:48
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| I rather want to come back to it now, in seeing how I'm an older DM, and making more decisions with my PC about how things are decided amongst rulers and their scions...this looks like I may need to delve deeper into Birthright for ideas.... |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 05:09:44
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| It has many great things to contribute...the setting was solid as for the lay of the land even. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 13:54:02
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Birthright was chock-full of great ideas, but the basic premise - that you ruled a land, rather then being part of an adventuring party - veered to far from 'normal' D&D for most folks. It may have been 'ahead of its time'.
Right now, I went back to basics, and I am re-doing all my continental outlines from all the different fantasy settings, all on the same scale. I had originally decided to release those so others could 'play' (build their own mock-ups), but that literally went up in flames LOL.
After I redo a bunch of them, I WILL post them somewhere for posterity - then everyone can build their own dream setting.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 14:26:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Birthright was chock-full of great ideas, but the basic premise - that you ruled a land, rather then being part of an adventuring party - veered to far from 'normal' D&D for most folks. It may have been 'ahead of its time'.
Knowing it was set up like that was why I never really got into it. I might have, had I had more money back then, but the different approach meant I put my money into things I was more certain on -- like Spelljammer! |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 14:28:29
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I don't have enough players with the patience for Birthright. It's always been a system I've wanted to try but of the couple dozen tabletop RPG players I know, only one would be willing to give it the chance it deserves I think.
I could loan people my copy of 'The Gorgon's Crown' but I don't think that'd do the trick. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
Edited by - hashimashadoo on 10 Dec 2013 14:29:21 |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 23:04:05
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I have made similar experiences.
When birthright came out, i felt a dream come true. Finally a d&d game where you had the combination of adventuring and kingdom rulership and building.
And as a bonus the goblinoid races also where fledged out jicely and not just cannonfodder. But i soo learned very few people really were into it.
Dalor has, as written before adapted a lot of it to a campaign i currently play with him on pbp. Can't wait for it to continue and see how it goes. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2013 : 05:19:27
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| It is coming JK...I promise! lol |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2013 : 11:10:46
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| Lol? I am serious about it, i really love the idea of adopting some cerilian rules into tbhe realms. |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2013 : 12:46:29
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| Lol? I am serious about it, i really love the idea of adopting some cerilian rules into tbhe realms. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2013 : 13:44:08
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Actually, their stuff about the 'Shadoworld' and the 'Spiritworld' shoe-horns well with our current concepts of the Shadodfell and the Feywild.
In fact, toward the very onset of 4e, I had gone as far as accusing Rich Baker of recycling some the ideas from his retired setting for the Realms (which he denied).
Not that it was done on purpose, or with any sort of 'nefarious plot' in mind - I think it could just be that some of a certain lead-designers own tastes wound-up trickling in, totally subconsciously (and he would not be the only one that happened with, me thinks).
Thus, I am not the first to blend FR with everything else... I am merely the first to map it.
(Not Really - I've seen others before me)
And while some elements fit perfectly, others, not so much. If Birthright is known for anything, its the fact it has very hard 'borders', much like Ravenloft, and The Forgotten Realm isn't really known for that - many FR culture's borders overlap, and realms can even be super-imposed (like The Dalelands and Cormanthor). Also, it has a type of 'resource point', which makes it feel more like an old-school wargame (you take over territories to get more of those). It would be fairly easy to interpret that into nodes, but even so, the flavor of a campaign like that doesn't really sync with The Forgotten Realms (IMHO).
Which is why I am also eager to see how DD handled all of that for his world. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Dec 2013 13:47:45 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2013 : 23:40:15
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I‘d always thought of the “Shadoworld“ being more like Ravenloft than the Shadowfell. Not quite as malign, hopeless, and horrifying as Ravenloft, yet not really like a demiplane of shadows. Sort of a twilight zone lost between, much emphasis on the darkish aspects of things, not outright evil, just disturbing and eerie and unpleasant.
I can understand the resemblance between the “Spiritworld“ and Feywild, but it‘s not really for me - I think things fey and elven infest too much fantasy already, and I prefer a broader template for all hings spiritual. To me the Ethereal is a better, but still imperfect, cognate.
Overlapping coexistent planes with blurry, shifting boundaries are wonderful motivators for adventure. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 14:03:46
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Well, one of the things I like about the newer cosmology is how 'the mists' became the Shadowfell (Plane of Shadows). The Domains of Dread is just a very large 'island' of solid matter within the shadowy realm.
Thus, the same could be true for many other places. Most of it would be a 'sea of mists', but there would be chunks of land here and there, some tiny (just a single building floating in the ether), or huge ( world-sized?) When we are dealing with entire planes, there really are no limits - you could have thousands of continents the size of Eurasia hundreds of thousands of miles apart, completely unaware of each other, and most folks traveling to the Shadowfell would never see any of that. It would just look like our traditional Plane of Shadows to them.
Funny thing is, I've always thought Faerie (now the Feywild) and Ravenloft were very similar, just with different 'faces'. Both have the ability to reach into other worlds, transpose landscapes, and steal folk. So in 4e I picture Faerie just being a very large chunk of matter floating in a 'sea of dreams', very much just how I picture Ravenloft in regards to the rest of the Shadowfell.
I picture the ethereal being the 'Spirit world/realm'. You enter the border ethereal, and then you 'turn' and walk deeper into either the Shadoworld or 'turn' the other way and walk into Feywild. Or you could just keep walking deeper into the ethereal itself. I think thats how Planes-walking works. Think of all of them as layers within one uber-plane (dimension?)
So mortals (on various worlds) make trips into these places, see a few specific things, and draw very wrong conclusions about the cosmology. Its really that simple. Since a lot of the 'Planeswalker' ability relies upon belief (think Chronicles of Amber), then these past travels by others influence how you interact with everything (because those preconceptions becomes part of your personal 'canon').
From The Matrix:
Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon - that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you will see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
There is scene in one of the Elminster novels (I believe it was Elminster's Daughter) where Elminster 'pulls a Neo' in that he literally reaches into the fabric of The Weave and makes changes. No spells - he just does something that should be impossible, especially to most other mages (Blackstaff to Elminster in another novel: "How did you do that?"). This is why Elminster is so special - he doesn't really need spells - he is 'a programmer'.
Planeswalking works much the same way - 'The Realms' aren't so much 'Forgotten', but rather, folks have just 'lost their way'. The door is there - you have to but see it.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Dec 2013 14:21:14 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2013 : 02:42:59
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I'm glad to see you're adding BR to your Misbegotten Realms Markus. The more you add the more I foam at the mouth.
BR was a great place to adventure IMHO. I think it needed serious tweaking but it was still a great idea. I can't wait to see DDs final rendition of the Realms with BR rules in place. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2013 : 03:29:41
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I'm shooting off in so many directions on projects...I think I may have ADD!
I slowly mount in projects until I come to critical mass and implode (some here can attest to that I'm sure).
The "Faerun Birthright" is a work still in progress. I've decided to centralize it, and only work on the Eastern Heartlands (since that is my favorite area to run games); but it would make it easy for others to work off that material to expand to other regions.
Various and sundry "Realms" in the area are obvious: Purple Dragons, War Wizards of Cormyr, Zhentarim, Zhentilar, Cult of the Dragon, various Churches and etc. Just the Eastern Heartlands has more detail than did all of Anuire! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2013 : 13:50:28
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Thats what happens to me, all the time. I was focusing so hard on the jungle region of my Misbegotten realms that I was ignoring everything else, including my map of the Impiltur/Demonwrought Lands.
So now I went back to that, and I'm not working on other things. If I try to work on everything I am interested in at once, nothing ever gets done. Story of my life.
As for my homebrew Realms, I had that 'Africanesque' region nearly complete, and then I realized the other day (when I tried to place Xendrik back on the world map) that I created something I had almost no use for. Its cool and all (combining Jungle/Africa areas from several settings), but it was all unnecessary. Its hard for me to realize when I cross that line into 'doing stuff just because I can'. Now I have to rethink the whole thing - maybe tack those bits of of those other settings onto Xendrik (or some islands surrounding it).
Thats twice I created an entire subcontinent and scrubbed it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Odd Request: Cerilia
