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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 18:11:34
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BE WARNED: SPOILERS GALORE
DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T LIKE SPOILERS
As of December 2013, we are three books into the Sundering. And unfortunately, I am starting to see some significant problems that I hope are fixed soon.
First, there just isn't enough metastory unfolding. We are three books in out of six, half over. With a major RSE that is going to have an impact on the overall tone and feel of the setting, involving changes to magic, gods, worlds, planes, geography, and the everyday lives of mortals, we simply are not seeing enough first-hand shake-up happening. And more than that, there is little to no explanation or exposition for why any of it is happening, other than a vague hint that Lord AO is unhappy. Sure, a couple gods are already back, and the Weave is back. Earthmotes are starting to fall, and spellplague energy is fading. But why? Why is any of this happening?
Second, there isn't any real connection between these novels. These are all very localized stories that center on specific individuals and their own problems as the Sundering is starting to happen. Thematic parts related to the Sundering completely take a back seat to whatever problems are happening in each book. There is no connection from book to book, no passing of any kind of thematic torch or any sense that the Sundering is ramping up. As such, the Sundering has zero sense of urgency, with no sense of danger thus far. What we are getting is a lot like snapshots or slices of life from totally different parts of Europe during World War II... there are hints of war going on, magic is changed again, but these are all effects of the Sundering and not actual events. We need to see the Sundering, we need to see this "World War II" level RSE up close and personal for it to have an impact on the reader.
Third, we are back to superhero-style storytelling. All of the protagonists so far are extremely special snowflakes, various Chosen of the Gods. In The Adversary, we are told that there are so many Chosen in this age that they are apparently featured in fictional chapbooks for public reading amusement... seriously! Many of the real Chosen have been captured and are being held in camps. Not everyone suspected of being a Chosen is one, but this is way, way out of hand. I cannot help but think of the X-Men and their mutant internment camps of the popular Days of Future Past story. If everyone has amazing Chosen powers, or is a special race with crazy abilities, or part angel or demon, are we really reading sword and sorcery any more, or superheroes on parade?
Fourth, there are quite a lot of changes coming down the pike, yet none of them seem very organic. One of the main reasons 4E Realms was so horrible was because changes were just plopped down from on high, with fuzzy explanations that they were somehow necessary to revive lagging sales. I get exactly the same feeling here. Case in point: earthmotes are falling. I'm certainly no fan of earthmotes. I think they're massively overused in 4E and completely detract from the uniqueness of floating Netherese cities. I'm also no fan of returned Netheril either, but Sakkors has also been crashed for very little reason. With the return of the Weave, spellscars and spellplague fades away. But why? Are the designers simply getting rid of elements that people disliked, without considering more than the surface level? Wasn't that a big problem of 4E Realms? We need reasons in order to make this changes feel rational, at least tied into the underlying properties and themes, the internal logic and rules, of the Realms setting.
I do want to be very clear that I am NOT taking a stab at the writers. I've very much enjoyed the three novels so far, but they are very much what I'd consider stand-alone works. Nothing really unifies them, other than a few background elements. When earthmotes fall, is this really impacting the other books or even the Realms? No, because they're not even having a story-impact within a novel. Earthmote falls and it's vaguely mentioned, but it means nothing. The meta-changes are vague, shadowy, and all in the background. Another example: when Catti-Brie loses her spellscars, it has zero impact on her character or the story because she immediately replaces those powers with other amazing powers. A series should have a constant unifying theme, with a story that threads through each novel in that series. With the Sundering, it's just a label so far. There's no big unfolding metastory that we are getting to experience along with the characters.
Sorry if this strikes people as too negative, but I'm just being honest.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 05 Dec 2013 18:28:20
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 18:38:58
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Haven't read The Adversary yet, but yeah, I agree that both The Companions and The Godborn had little to nothing to do with the Sundering. All of the Sundering elements in those books could have been removed and the overall plot of the books wouldn't have changed.
I really like both books, but the Sundering part was indeed a let down.
EDIT: And no, I don't consider 4E awful. The only thing that I really disliked about 4E was the timejump and I'll miss several of the things that they're getting rid of.
I think its really stupid that people complain about stuff getting axed with the transition from 3E to 4E and WotC's solution is to again axe stuff between 4E and 5E. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
Edited by - Tanthalas on 05 Dec 2013 18:41:38 |
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charger_ss24
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 18:51:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
BE WARNED: SPOILERS GALORE
DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T LIKE SPOILERS
As of December 2013, we are three books into the Sundering. And unfortunately, I am starting to see some significant problems that I hope are fixed soon.
First, there just isn't enough metastory unfolding. We are three books in out of six, half over. With a major RSE that is going to have an impact on the overall tone and feel of the setting, involving changes to magic, gods, worlds, planes, geography, and the everyday lives of mortals, we simply are not seeing enough first-hand shake-up happening. And more than that, there is little to no explanation or exposition for why any of it is happening, other than a vague hint that Lord AO is unhappy. Sure, a couple gods are already back, and the Weave is back. Earthmotes are starting to fall, and spellplague energy is fading. But why? Why is any of this happening?
I'm going to start out by saying that I have yet to read The Godborn and I'm going out today to buy The Adversary, but I probably won't read that until I read Erin's first two books.
That being said, I agree with your assessment on the lack of details involving the Sundering event having only read The Companions. But this is where I get confused. Assuming you've read all three books, you're criticizing the lack of details of the Sundering, NOT the writers I might add, but over on Forgotten Realms Novels under the scroll "The Adversary, reviews, spoilers" this poster says...
"We really get into the meat of the Sundering with this title, we get to see alot of the Chosen in action as well."
Reading that statement, I'm assuming that I'm going to be learning what the Sundering is all about, but your post and the post I just quoted contradict each other. Did I misinterpret your post? The quoted post? Both?
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 19:51:54
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Glad to see you're still around Therise. Been a few weeks since I saw you post anything. And what a post this on is. I'm going out to buy my copy of The Adversary today and will give my opinion this weekend but I'm in general agreement about the scant information on the Sundering thus far. However, I wasn't really expecting explanations until Ed's book, so I'm not too worried about it at the moment.
As to the 'localized' stories of the novels...that is what we were told to expect about the FR line of novels from now on isn't it? Wizbro is supposed to concentrate less on the gods and RSEs, in general, and more on local stories/heroes yes? As for this series, they have to focus some on the gods and their agents but it seems they are sticking to the idea of localized stories.
Sorry I can't give a more detailed opinion at this time, give me a couple of days and I will. Cheers. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 20:03:03
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quote:
Originally posted by charger_ss24
I'm going to start out by saying that I have yet to read The Godborn and I'm going out today to buy The Adversary, but I probably won't read that until I read Erin's first two books.
That being said, I agree with your assessment on the lack of details involving the Sundering event having only read The Companions. But this is where I get confused. Assuming you've read all three books, you're criticizing the lack of details of the Sundering, NOT the writers I might add, but over on Forgotten Realms Novels under the scroll "The Adversary, reviews, spoilers" this poster says...
"We really get into the meat of the Sundering with this title, we get to see alot of the Chosen in action as well."
Reading that statement, I'm assuming that I'm going to be learning what the Sundering is all about, but your post and the post I just quoted contradict each other. Did I misinterpret your post? The quoted post? Both?
To answer your questions -
You could read The Adversary without having read Erin's first two books, but I would read both before starting this one. It'll just make a lot more sense and give depth to her characters.
That said, The Adversary doesn't really qualify as "meat of the Sundering" in my opinion. It's certainly set during the Sundering, and even shows an internment camp of captured Chosen, but nothing is really explained about the Sundering.
Imagine a book that is set during World War II in an internment camp, but doesn't have much to do with the actual War. In this book you do learn why the Chosen were being captured, but you don't learn anything meaty or informative about the Sundering.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 20:20:39
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If you ask me, The Companions was a Sundering event book. It's about how one goddess specifically responds to the Sundering. We see the impact of the return of the weave in Shade, panic.
Fireballs aren't going to rain from the sky because the Weave is back, falling mages as their flight spells don't work anymore maybe. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 20:23:54
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The only thing I want to add at this time is that I am also glad you are still around Therise, and that you are trying to give 'the new FR' a chance.
I am sorry you are not enjoying The Sundering thus far, and also hope thats not any sort of indication of where this is all headed. I haven't really heard anything that they didn't actually say during Gencon 2012 - at the seminar they said each novel would be its own separate story, about each author's own 'pet' characters, and that they would only be connected in only the most abstract fashion (Ed greenwood, in fact, made light of it by saying, "The Sundering? Yeah... thats that thing going on over there", Or something very close to that.) I had wondered at that time how The Sundering series wasn't going to actually feature The Sundering... but I figured they knew what they were doing (at that time).
So I haven't heard anything that doesn't coincide with what they said would happen. Think of these novels as a 'lead in' to the sundering, which will probably be unveiled in all its glory in the 5e campaign guide (at least, thats my assumption).
Its a marketing thing - don't sweat it. They want the CG to sell, and they are just wetting our appetites right now. I can't say there is anything wrong with that. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Dec 2013 20:28:44 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 20:27:48
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Glad to see you're still around Therise. Been a few weeks since I saw you post anything.
Thanks, but I've been considering leaving the boards altogether for several weeks now, for reasons that I don't really want to get into.
quote:
I'm going out to buy my copy of The Adversary today and will give my opinion this weekend but I'm in general agreement about the scant information on the Sundering thus far. However, I wasn't really expecting explanations until Ed's book, so I'm not too worried about it at the moment.
As to the 'localized' stories of the novels...that is what we were told to expect about the FR line of novels from now on isn't it? Wizbro is supposed to concentrate less on the gods and RSEs, in general, and more on local stories/heroes yes? As for this series, they have to focus some on the gods and their agents but it seems they are sticking to the idea of localized stories.
I'm all for having localized stories, and I think that part was a good idea. But with a novel series, particularly one that heralds change of a world setting over six novels, those individual stories need to feel much more like they are tied directly into the changes that are happening. So far, these feel like totally separate and isolated stories that are set during the same period but there's no ramping up of danger related to the primary event (aka the Sundering) and no real connections to it other than mentioning a random earthmote falling down or spellplague "drying up" in areas we don't see.
And full explanations do usually come more at the end, I realize. But there should be much more unfolding than what we're seeing now at the midway point. Otherwise, the Sundering is going to feel exactly like the Spellplague - in that 95% of it happened entirely off-page and we are just going to get localized mentions of it that are not tied into any kind of overarching meta-story.
Eltheron said similar things in a different post, that we're getting glimpses of this Sundering in the background but it's all rather vague and no one knows what's going on. My impression at this point is that although the Netherese and the Sharrans and the devils of the Hells are very active and causing all sorts of trouble, it seems like they have no idea whatsoever is happening or is going to happen.
Trilogies, or quadrilogies, or sextet novel series tend to pull for a major overarching theme and they give more and more with every subsequent novel. We're halfway done with this series, though, and it still feels like the "Sundering" is little more than a label for random things happening in the world.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 05 Dec 2013 20:28:11 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 20:31:31
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Calling the series "The Sundering" perhaps was a bit of a misnomer.
Something along the lines of "Sundering's Daw" may have been a bit better, and more accurate. Its only a series in the same way that certain comic-book storylines cross into many titles, but each book usually still has its own, separate story. Then after that runs for awhile, they do a mini-series or some such addressing the main storyline, once it reaches its apex.
Thats whats going on here, accept instead of a culminating mini-series, we are going to get our FR sourcebooks (once again, that is just my assumption, based on what little we've been told). Also, from what I gather, Ed's final book will be tying up some of those loose ends as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Dec 2013 20:35:50 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 20:49:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The only thing I want to add at this time is that I am also glad you are still around Therise, and that you are trying to give 'the new FR' a chance.
Thanks, but sometimes given the responses that I get from various other people on the forums... it's become harder and harder to justify sticking around.
quote:
I am sorry you are not enjoying The Sundering thus far, and also hope thats not any sort of indication of where this is all headed.
The weird thing is that I really am enjoying the books individually, when it comes to the main characters' stories. The part I'm seriously disappointed with is the lack of anything substantive that's supposed to hold and thematically tie the series together.
Whenever I get to a point where I think there's going to be some reveal about the Sundering, AO's plans, or what the gods are doing (and why), it ends up being an isolated thing that's not really related to the Sundering but something else.
Honestly, I hope some actual reveals are in the works. It's hard to invest in anything that's so vague.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 20:54:27
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Well, there you go - they've accomplished precisely what I said I thought they were doing - they are leaving you salivating for more information. Thats the real purpose of the series. Strangely, you've given me quite a bit of hope, despite you're own let-down.
They promised us some great stories, with a bit of a nod toward The Sundering - a tale which hasn't come fully to light yet (but WILL). Everything they said at Gencon 2012 is holding true.
If you are enjoying them individually, stick around for the finale; its sure to be a doozy.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 21:10:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The only thing I want to add at this time is that I am also glad you are still around Therise, and that you are trying to give 'the new FR' a chance.
I am sorry you are not enjoying The Sundering thus far, and also hope thats not any sort of indication of where this is all headed. I haven't really heard anything that they didn't actually say during Gencon 2012 - at the seminar they said each novel would be its own separate story, about each author's own 'pet' characters, and that they would only be connected in only the most abstract fashion (Ed greenwood, in fact, made light of it by saying, "The Sundering? Yeah... thats that thing going on over there", Or something very close to that.) I had wondered at that time how The Sundering series wasn't going to actually feature The Sundering... but I figured they knew what they were doing (at that time).
So I haven't heard anything that doesn't coincide with what they said would happen. Think of these novels as a 'lead in' to the sundering, which will probably be unveiled in all its glory in the 5e campaign guide (at least, thats my assumption).
Its a marketing thing - don't sweat it. They want the CG to sell, and they are just wetting our appetites right now. I can't say there is anything wrong with that.
This. I haven't read any of the books (I have to import those so I'll wait until I can get the whole series, if ever - I'm not a big novel reader). But what I've heard has met my expectations pretty much exactly. Not my fondest wishes, but my reasonable expectations, surely. The fact that the Sundering isn't happening in the Sundering books was flat out stated in GenCon from the videos I saw, and while it seems counter-intuitive, I actually think it's a good idea. The Sundering is for the Realms, its properties, so to say, can't be made to fit the constraints of novels. The Sundering and its effects should be explained in the next FRCS or similar product.
Regarding the third and fourth points... well, as I said I didn't read the books, but the third may be a fairly minor mistake (from what I've heard these new Chosen aren't special snowflakes, it's just that the gods are worried about their fates so they're creating scores of them - everyone and their dog can be a Chosen in this period, which I don't think is a necessarily bad plot device). As for the fourth, that's where you get to the "RSE to end all RSEs" thing. Simply, they added so much stuff to the Realms with so little thought, and that stuff is, in some cases, so freakishly alien and bad, that if they did make a very well-thought out explanation now, it just wouldn't matter. That's my point of view anyway. I don't care why the earthmotes are falling down. I prefer to forget they were ever there in the first place. I'm okay with leaving a couple afloat for people who liked them (I think it'd be a good idea, even though I wouldn't personally like it). But overall, doing away with them for basically no in-world reason is a great way of getting past it for me. The Sundering must feel contrived by necessity, it must do some things we don't usually like (talking for the "average Candlekeep scribe" here). It's an RSE. Now, it's left for them to stay good on the "to end all RSEs" part and stop doing that stuff after it's over.
I see it this way... they have gone from the Realms to what amounted to a different setting without going though the "in between". There's no way to go back to the old Realms without making a similar jump. Or maybe releasing two decades' worth of novels and sourcebooks to explain why (most) everything is how it was again. I don't think that would be viable. Seriously, it would take hundreds of books to provide a good in-world explanation for everything they should be changing. Just for starters, you'd need one new regional book for every area that's already been covered. I kinda hope they start doing that slowly over the years, but for now, that's impossible.
See their solution for dead gods, i.e. "there are no dead gods". It's a sledgehammer solution, but would we rather wait until someone wanted to do a trilogy about the resurrection of Leira than just having her back as default? Even if she's not mentioned, any designer or novelist who wants to include a Leiran in their book is free to do that, and we may eventually get hints and other cool stuff (DMs, of course, have always been able to do that, but it is still kind of nice to be supported by the creators). |
Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.
Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955
My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447 |
Edited by - Mapolq on 05 Dec 2013 21:37:53 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 21:13:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, there you go - they've accomplished precisely what I said I thought they were doing - they are leaving you salivating for more information.
Eh, well... I wouldn't call it "salivating for more information" exactly. It's much more like "extremely frustrated at the lack of building metastory". I'm now actually much less interested in reading books 4-5 because those aren't really tied into any prior characters and will probably still have minimal information about the Sundering.
quote:
They promised us some great stories, with a bit of a nod toward The Sundering - a tale which hasn't come fully to light yet (but WILL). Everything they said at Gencon 2012 is holding true.
I guess. But if they end up pulling another Spellplague and not explaining anything I'll feel well and truly hoodwinked by hype.
quote:
If you are enjoying them individually, stick around for the finale; its sure to be a doozy.
Well, I was motivated to read the first three because of the characters and their existing novel series. I'm not really hooked into novels 4-5 by anything yet. As I understand it, those characters are totally new.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 21:36:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
...The fact that the Sundering isn't happening in the Sundering books was flat out stated in GenCon from the videos I saw, and while it seems counter-intuitive, I actually think it's a good idea.
Did they really say this in the 2012 videos?
I went to this year's GenCon and I don't think I was ever disabused of the notion that the Sundering series would involve the Sundering.
That is to say, I fully expected the individual stories. But I also expected the Sundering novels to show it as an overarching event.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 21:44:43
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| If I watch them again I'll tell you the passage. I probably exaggerated by saying "flat-out stated". It seemed to me as a flat-out statement, but from what I can gather from memory, it may well have allowed interpretations such as yours. Actually I probably got it from several lines such as "these will be stories about characters, not deities", which for me read like what I said. I remember a video of Ed that was tangential to the topic where he said something like these would be like stories about the crew of a Lancaster bomber in WWII, their personal history, how they go about having to risk their lives, bomb the hell out of the enemy, etc. You wouldn't (necessarily) get the big picture of what WWII is all about in a book like that... it might end in 1944 and you never get to see who won, because it's not about that. |
Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.
Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955
My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447 |
Edited by - Mapolq on 05 Dec 2013 21:48:59 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 22:16:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
If I watch them again I'll tell you the passage. I probably exaggerated by saying "flat-out stated". It seemed to me as a flat-out statement, but from what I can gather from memory, it may well have allowed interpretations such as yours. Actually I probably got it from several lines such as "these will be stories about characters, not deities", which for me read like what I said. I remember a video of Ed that was tangential to the topic where he said something like these would be like stories about the crew of a Lancaster bomber in WWII, their personal history, how they go about having to risk their lives, bomb the hell out of the enemy, etc. You wouldn't (necessarily) get the big picture of what WWII is all about in a book like that... it might end in 1944 and you never get to see who won, because it's not about that.
I remember something along those lines as well - with the WWII bomber story. I guess I just never thought the Sundering elements would be as minimal as they have been so far.
The main issue that I'm having with this is that I'm really not particularly motivated to read books 4 and 5 because they don't have any character connections to prior trilogies or works. An overarching metaplot about the Sundering would've solved that for me, probably.
I suppose that I thought we'd see more "front lines" activity, in the sense that we'd be seeing the Sundering happen. It wouldn't directly involve the gods, or a glut of Chosen, but it would be personal and individual character stories deeply tied into the big world changes rather than being rather incidental and separate from those changes.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 16:05:02
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| According to Salavotore I believe, The Godborn and The Companion are interchangely read, but the books that come after should be read in order. That says to me Godborn and Companions are just the tip, and starting with the Advesary the books get progressively deeper into the Sundering with each book. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 16:27:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
According to Salavotore I believe, The Godborn and The Companion are interchangely read, but the books that come after should be read in order. That says to me Godborn and Companions are just the tip, and starting with the Advesary the books get progressively deeper into the Sundering with each book.
That's good to know, and Erin Evans just said something very similar in her thread yesterday.
I want to see the Sundering metastory, and I want it to form that common, uniting thread that pulls everything together. And really, I think we all are wanting to see more Sundering details, what it all means and what it will come to mean.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 17:43:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Think of these novels as a 'lead in' to the sundering, which will probably be unveiled in all its glory in the 5e campaign guide (at least, thats my assumption).
I agree except for the unveiling part. I think these novels are the lead in and the campaign guide will be the post. I don't seem them dumping the 5e campaign into the middle of the havoc, I see them skipping over it like with spellplague and leave us hoping they fill in the blanks afterward. There's examples of this mentality since 3e. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 06 Dec 2013 17:45:17 |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2013 : 04:03:55
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Like Markustay and The Arcanamach, I'm glad to see you're still around, Therise. I'm also sad to hear you might be leaving Candlekeep, especially since you have been one of the most understanding and helpful sages I've interacted with here. To tell the truth, the only reason I'm even giving 5e a chance is because of a scroll you posted a while back ('Regained faith in the Realms', if I recall correctly).
As for the Sundering novels... well, I haven't actually read them (haven't been able to buy any of them due to a severely limited budget), but it sounds like they're fairly well-written, even if they haven't gone into what the Sundering is. I'm also a bit irked by the idea of every god having Chosen (weren't Mystra's meant to be the only ones originally?). |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2013 : 05:39:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan
Like Markustay and The Arcanamach, I'm glad to see you're still around, Therise. I'm also sad to hear you might be leaving Candlekeep, especially since you have been one of the most understanding and helpful sages I've interacted with here. To tell the truth, the only reason I'm even giving 5e a chance is because of a scroll you posted a while back ('Regained faith in the Realms', if I recall correctly).
Thanks, that's very kind to hear and it's appreciated.
I still feel the same way, having hope for the 5E Realms. I faltered a bit here with the really slow unfolding of detail and the proliferation of Chosen. But having talked with Erin in her other thread, I think I'm getting a better picture.
quote:
As for the Sundering novels... well, I haven't actually read them (haven't been able to buy any of them due to a severely limited budget), but it sounds like they're fairly well-written, even if they haven't gone into what the Sundering is. I'm also a bit irked by the idea of every god having Chosen (weren't Mystra's meant to be the only ones originally?).
I hear you on having a tight budget, this economy really needs to recover. And it is weird that we get to see so many Chosen in this latest book. But I've really been thinking about that, and on what Erin said in her thread, and it does seem to make sense. Here's some speculation:
I think the gods are in a state of panic, given some of the changes so far. I'm guessing here, but everything seems to imply that the deities don't have much of an idea what AO is going to do and what it means for them and the world(s). So they're trying to hide Aces up the sleeves of every sympathetic worshiper, every nook and cranny they can find.
Similarly, I suspect that various nations and individuals who are acting up right now (the Thayans, the Netherese, etc) similarly don't have a clue - and many of them are either terrified of losing power or they feel like the time is right to jockey for position.
And I think Markustay may be right when he suggested that something really BIG is coming down the pike. I think that this big RSE hasn't quite happened yet, and we're in for something epic in one of the next two books. I could be wrong, but this is the current vibe that I'm getting. So far, we've seen some initial effects and some early shooters with these three novels.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2013 : 12:56:36
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When I say "I think 5e is already here", I don't mean we've seen it all. These novels are part of the introduction to that, as are all the playtest rules. Think of them as 'prologues', in a way. Or even a build-up to monumental things yet to come.
And I do have renewed faith in The Realms right now.
(and in the immortal words of Forest Gump... "thats all I got to say about that."  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Dec 2013 12:58:12 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2013 : 22:37:01
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I'm glad to see you back to Therise.
as for the realms, I'm still in the wait and see boat |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2013 : 06:25:09
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
I'm glad to see you back to Therise.
as for the realms, I'm still in the wait and see boat
Thanks, sfdragon.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2013 : 23:04:03
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I would say the Godborn and the Adversary both had some really rough parts, but even after the ridiculous and extremely annoying goody two shoes Chosen of Asmodeus reveal. I still think that the realms themselves are shaping up nicely from the series.
The Companions actually traveled over a lot of Faerun giving some little peaks at places and revealed the return of the weave. The Godborn brought Mask back and added some interesting dimensions to the Shades. The Adversary show cased the Harpers and Shades conflict nicely. Also, it has a silent nod to Vhaeraun which won some big points with me. The description for the Reaver sounds like bigger events are going to start there. I would say the Adversary succeed in cooling my enthusiasm, but I still plan on reading the rest of the series and I am still of the opinion that as a campaign setting it will be worth picking up. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2013 : 23:17:33
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| Far as I can tell, Ed seems to be cheerfully driving the 5E party bus. If we're heading to the OGB feel for the Realms again, I don't really care how we get there. We can only really go up from here. If they have Ao farting divine butterflies and plugging up the Underchasm with modeling clay, so be it. heheh. Until then, I'll be drinking and singing bawdy tavern songs in the back of the bus and wagering until we see a new Volo's Guide! :) |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2013 : 18:02:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Far as I can tell, Ed seems to be cheerfully driving the 5E party bus. If we're heading to the OGB feel for the Realms again, I don't really care how we get there. We can only really go up from here. If they have Ao farting divine butterflies and plugging up the Underchasm with modeling clay, so be it. heheh. Until then, I'll be drinking and singing bawdy tavern songs in the back of the bus and wagering until we see a new Volo's Guide! :)
Party bus?
You just made this video pop into my head:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZlehGXpW6I
I hope we never see or hear from AO again, actually.
FEE FI FO FUM! 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Problems with the Sundering series (spoilers)
