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 "The Adversary" -- Chapters 22 - 26 and Epilogue
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2013 :  02:43:02  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Well met

This is a Book Club thread for The Adversary (part of "The Sundering" saga), by Erin M. Evans. Please discuss chapters 22 - 26 and the Epilogue herein.

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Crystyn
Seeker

58 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2013 :  17:07:02  Show Profile Send Crystyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Really liked the book, finished it in a matter of days but I still don't particularly like Havilar, don't like Brin at all and their romance is just useless to the story and not well thought out.

Finally completed my Drizzt collection
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe

487 Posts

Posted - 17 Dec 2013 :  05:22:42  Show Profile Send Lilianviaten a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crystyn

Really liked the book, finished it in a matter of days but I still don't particularly like Havilar, don't like Brin at all and their romance is just useless to the story and not well thought out.



Cmon, Havilar is awesome! I like Brin too, though I can understand if you don't think he adds much to the story. Their romance is really cute to me though, and I normally don't care about romances in the Realms novels. (My favorite is still Liriel and Fyodor, though.)
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Crystyn
Seeker

58 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2013 :  04:46:28  Show Profile Send Crystyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten

Cmon, Havilar is awesome! I like Brin too, though I can understand if you don't think he adds much to the story. Their romance is really cute to me though, and I normally don't care about romances in the Realms novels. (My favorite is still Liriel and Fyodor, though.)



Havilar is cool but her character feels inconsistent, she's reckless yet smart, supposed to be simple yet very insightful from time to time.

Brin on the other hand should have been replaced by Dahl long ago, his only purpose seems to be to drive the plot to cormyr.

Their romance though is what bugs me most they don't fit, especially as I don't see anything he did to warrant havilars affection over any other character.

My favourite romance would be either, Pharaun Myzrym and Alisza, Drizzt and Dahlia (it fit and ended very much in character), Midnight and Kelemvor (mainly because I am a huge fan of Kelemvor) and I believe Dahl would be nice with Farideh only to make Lorcan jealous enough to realize his feelings but we are past that...

One thing I could see happening is Farideh being or becoming a chosen of Selune as a) silver eye b) statue after her image in neverwinter c) someone yet undisclosed talking to her in her temple d) Drizzt apparently having been favoured by Lolth and Mielikki.

When on the subject of lolth, there was a drow (I believe Rald was his name) in the camp, chosen by a drow god but in the war of the spider queen and lady penitent cycle all drow deities but Lolth were dealt with, Selvetarm being sacrificed by lolth, Vaeraun sacrificing himself ti become part of Eilistraee Ghaunadaur abandoning humanoid worshippers and Kiaransalee deleted from mortals memories, which after the Avatar series meant death and finally Eilistraee being killed by Halistra while inhabiting Qilue taking in Wedonais taint, making many drows dark elves again.
That only leaves Lolth.

As a final side note, I really wished Drizzt to be chosen of Lolth and him come to terms with Menzoberanzzan

Finally completed my Drizzt collection

Edited by - Crystyn on 18 Dec 2013 04:55:21
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
294 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2013 :  01:01:57  Show Profile  Visit ErinMEvans's Homepage Send ErinMEvans a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still am not totally clear on the etiquette of these forums--whethere I should be here or not. But seriously, I spent the better part of a year and a half thinking about this book. I want to talk about it!

quote:
Originally posted by Crystyn

quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten

Cmon, Havilar is awesome! I like Brin too, though I can understand if you don't think he adds much to the story. Their romance is really cute to me though, and I normally don't care about romances in the Realms novels. (My favorite is still Liriel and Fyodor, though.)



Havilar is cool but her character feels inconsistent, she's reckless yet smart, supposed to be simple yet very insightful from time to time.

Brin on the other hand should have been replaced by Dahl long ago, his only purpose seems to be to drive the plot to cormyr.

Their romance though is what bugs me most they don't fit, especially as I don't see anything he did to warrant havilars affection over any other character.


Honestly? He appreciates her for being her.

Theirs is a very ordinary romance in my mind. They both come out of such sheltered backgrounds, with such broken ideas about relationships (i.e. that it goes along like a chapbook). And the reality is she liked him at the start because he was a cute boy with proximity.

And then they just got along really well, and appreciated and supported each other in subtle but critical ways. Brin is never going to prefer Farideh over Havilar. He is always going to be really impressed with her skills. He gets xasprated with her at times, but mostly he's not trying to change her into something she's not, which is probably the thing that scares Havilar the most.

To be honest again, I intended to break them up in the second book, before it became Lesser Evils. But between that, and the fact that Havilar protects Brin and loves him for who he is, not who he's related to/ what he has...they wouldn't break.

Now, though, I fully admit things have to break or change. They're not seventeen anymore. Too many things have changed since Havilar disappeared. So adapt or die, kiddos. :p

(None of this means you have to like them, of course. But this is what I was shooting for.)

(I also wouldn't say I was aiming for her to be smart, personally. She's a little bit of a savant with the glaive, yes. And she has flashes of insight, but mostly because she's so used to looking at the world in kind of an askew way, she sometimes sees things other people don't. She's getting smarter by necessity, but she's been allowed [and in some ways encouraged] to be a bit of an innocent.)

quote:
My favourite romance would be either, Pharaun Myzrym and Alisza, Drizzt and Dahlia (it fit and ended very much in character), Midnight and Kelemvor (mainly because I am a huge fan of Kelemvor) and I believe Dahl would be nice with Farideh only to make Lorcan jealous enough to realize his feelings but we are past that...

One thing I could see happening is Farideh being or becoming a chosen of Selune as a) silver eye b) statue after her image in neverwinter c) someone yet undisclosed talking to her in her temple d) Drizzt apparently having been favoured by Lolth and Mielikki.


Can I just say I LOVE seeing long-term speculation? There are so many little things I've been setting and now look, patterns! (Are you right? *shrug*)

quote:
When on the subject of lolth, there was a drow (I believe Rald was his name) in the camp, chosen by a drow god but in the war of the spider queen and lady penitent cycle all drow deities but Lolth were dealt with, Selvetarm being sacrificed by lolth, Vaeraun sacrificing himself ti become part of Eilistraee Ghaunadaur abandoning humanoid worshippers and Kiaransalee deleted from mortals memories, which after the Avatar series meant death and finally Eilistraee being killed by Halistra while inhabiting Qilue taking in Wedonais taint, making many drows dark elves again.
That only leaves Lolth.


Ah, but the Sundering is causing all sorts of mayhem. The gods are coming back all over the place. So yes, Phalar ought not to have options. But suddenly he does...

www.slushlush.com
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Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2013 :  02:19:04  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crystyn

Havilar is cool but her character feels inconsistent, she's reckless yet smart, supposed to be simple yet very insightful from time to time.

Brin on the other hand should have been replaced by Dahl long ago, his only purpose seems to be to drive the plot to cormyr.

Sorry to just jump in here with a comment, but this inspired me to say something and speculate a little bit.

I don't see Havilar as being inconsistent but rather we just know a lot less about her internal workings so far. She's an extrovert when it comes to hack-and-slash, being on point in the battle, but emotionally and socially she seems way more introverted, more guarded than Farideh.

quote:
Their romance though is what bugs me most they don't fit, especially as I don't see anything he did to warrant havilars affection over any other character.

I really thought Brin-Havilar made a lot of sense. Seems to me that Havilar is the butchy tomboy type that secretly wants to be a princess and wear pretty dresses, but would constantly get her weapons tied up in the fabric and feel like she's screwed everything up. Compare with Farideh who is much more comfortable playing girly-girl in social situations, and is also more savvy with them... but Farideh likes the dark, muscled bad-boy types (hence her attraction to devil-boy).

Totally speculating here, since Erin said she loves speculation... and this isn't necessarily what I'd want to happen, just how I think things might flow going forward...

Brin and Havilar have a solid connection, they understand each other and complement each other well emotionally. But socially, I think people (nobles, relatives, etc) are probably going to break them up HARD and it'll be sad.

Farideh will probably continue her attraction to her super-hot devil-boy, and there may be a bit of a hot love triangle involving Dahl. But the thing with Dahl, while he could be good for Farideh, I just don't see it going that way. Dahl, I suspect, will become a very important and close friend who comes to love her - but it won't be romantic love for either of them. I see Farideh as being someone who could actually change devil-boy, and that's not only sexy but it's also quite rare for a devil/demon to become "uncorrupted" and find love.

Arguably, you -could- say that this happened a little with Pharaun and Aliisza, but with those two it didn't really seem like actual love. Perhaps a mutual, deep connection that approached it, but I don't think either of them felt "love" in the romantic sense.

Farideh has her emotional hooks into devil-boy. I think he's already changing, though he is resisting it by trying to stay "true" to his devilish-cambion nature. I think there's a good possibility there that Farideh might change him, or circumstances that force them apart might make him realize his love for her... and it'll be a shocking moment of realization for him.

Anyway, just some speculation.


4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!
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Euranna
Learned Scribe

USA
219 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2013 :  15:25:32  Show Profile Send Euranna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Erin: I think you can jump in all you want. :)

I think Havilar makes a perfect sister to Farideh. It actually reminds me of my own sister who was basically expected to be almost the complete opposite of me. It is kinda how siblings come out sometimes. It made sense to me, of course Farideh is the brainier one and Havi is the kick ass fighter. It fit. And if it were not for Havi being so "non-brainy" Farideh would not have her hot devil-boy. LOL

Personally, the simplicity of the early relationship with Brin and Havi was nice. It was not complicated and tragic or anything like usually happens to characters. Instead, it was two kids falling for each other and making it up as they went, just like teenagers are want to do. IN The Adversary, things changed quickly since Brin has had years without her and has grown up emotionally, Havi is still in that moment after they were together for the first time. It is not weird and complicated, but again..the complication fits. He has had 7 years to grow and experience life. She, has not. And now, they are finally headed to Cormyr.
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Crystyn
Seeker

58 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2013 :  04:07:26  Show Profile Send Crystyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Euranna

Erin: I think you can jump in all you want. :)

I think Havilar makes a perfect sister to Farideh. It actually reminds me of my own sister who was basically expected to be almost the complete opposite of me. It is kinda how siblings come out sometimes. It made sense to me, of course Farideh is the brainier one and Havi is the kick ass fighter. It fit. And if it were not for Havi being so "non-brainy" Farideh would not have her hot devil-boy. LOL

Personally, the simplicity of the early relationship with Brin and Havi was nice. It was not complicated and tragic or anything like usually happens to characters. Instead, it was two kids falling for each other and making it up as they went, just like teenagers are want to do. IN The Adversary, things changed quickly since Brin has had years without her and has grown up emotionally, Havi is still in that moment after they were together for the first time. It is not weird and complicated, but again..the complication fits. He has had 7 years to grow and experience life. She, has not. And now, they are finally headed to Cormyr.



Together (Havi/Fari) they complement each other, let me just say that Havilar refusing to sleep next to Farideh was heart-breaking, but as Farideh is more of a protagonist Havilar doesn't get as much room for character growth.
Did Havilar ever apologize for summoning Lorcan, drawing the summoning cycle incomplete and just leaving Farideh alone with him? She mentioned it once that it was her that summoned him and not Farideh but I am rather unforgiving if such an attitude is coupled with a character so self centric.

Surprisingly I grew fond of Sairché and Invadiah, it's like reading books about drow, they are backstabbing, cruel, and much more but by nature not by choice and that just makes me like how they struggle in their messed up world.

quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans

Can I just say I LOVE seeing long-term speculation? There are so many little things I've been setting and now look, patterns! (Are you right? *shrug*)



What else are we to do to bear with waiting so long for the next boo

Wish Lisa Stedman would have returned for the Sundering to continue the story of the by Wedonai untainted and dedrowed, for a lack of a better term, dark elves.

Finally completed my Drizzt collection

Edited by - Crystyn on 21 Dec 2013 22:02:36
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
294 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2013 :  04:55:52  Show Profile  Visit ErinMEvans's Homepage Send ErinMEvans a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Totally speculating here, since Erin said she loves speculation... and this isn't necessarily what I'd want to happen, just how I think things might flow going forward...

Since we're speculating, what do you want to happen?

www.slushlush.com
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
294 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2013 :  04:59:10  Show Profile  Visit ErinMEvans's Homepage Send ErinMEvans a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Euranna

Erin: I think you can jump in all you want. :)

I think Havilar makes a perfect sister to Farideh. It actually reminds me of my own sister who was basically expected to be almost the complete opposite of me. It is kinda how siblings come out sometimes. It made sense to me, of course Farideh is the brainier one and Havi is the kick ass fighter. It fit. And if it were not for Havi being so "non-brainy" Farideh would not have her hot devil-boy. LOL

Personally, the simplicity of the early relationship with Brin and Havi was nice. It was not complicated and tragic or anything like usually happens to characters. Instead, it was two kids falling for each other and making it up as they went, just like teenagers are want to do. IN The Adversary, things changed quickly since Brin has had years without her and has grown up emotionally, Havi is still in that moment after they were together for the first time. It is not weird and complicated, but again..the complication fits. He has had 7 years to grow and experience life. She, has not. And now, they are finally headed to Cormyr.



FINALLY. This was supposed to be Book 2. :p

The other thing I would point out in Brin's case is that this has got to be horrifically re-traumatizing for him. When something like that happens, even returning to it for happy reasons can mess a person up. So although he's an adult, he's grown up in at least most of the ways you're supposed to by the time you're twenty-six, this is absolutely going to crash him back down to seventeen while he sorts it out.


www.slushlush.com
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
294 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2013 :  05:11:41  Show Profile  Visit ErinMEvans's Homepage Send ErinMEvans a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crystyn
Did Havilar ever apologize for summoning Lorcan, drawing the summoning cycle incomplete and just leaving Farideh alone with him? She mentioned it once that it was her that summoned him and not Farideh but I am rather unforgiving if such an attitude is coupled with a character so self centric.


So I would imagine she apologized initially, in the immediate aftermath, but I don't think she sees the pact as something bad at this point. It's still this special thing Farideh gets, and the bad aspects are more about the people she interacts with. So while she smarts at not getting credit and attention, it hasn't occured to her that she shares a measure of the blame if she shares the credit. Because you're right, she's a little self-centered at times. (Like I said, you don't need to like her . Lots of people do, but she grates on some people like sandpaper.)

quote:
Surprisingly I grew fond of Sairché and Invadiah, it's like reading books about drow, they are backstabbing, cruel, and much more but by nature not by choice and that just makes me like how they struggle in their messed up world.


That's the best part of evil cultures/races to me. Their society still has to function--so how do they do that? How do you keep from devolving into a big pile of daggers and body parts while still being the kind of people who would totally shank every one of your neighbors?

quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
Can I just say I LOVE seeing long-term speculation? There are so many little things I've been setting and now look, patterns! (Are you right? *shrug*)



]quote]What else are we to do to bear with waiting so long for the next book
[/quote]
Do it more? There are so many things that I am still waiting for people to notice.

www.slushlush.com

Edited by - ErinMEvans on 23 Dec 2013 05:39:12
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Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2013 :  05:20:07  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans

quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Totally speculating here, since Erin said she loves speculation... and this isn't necessarily what I'd want to happen, just how I think things might flow going forward...

Since we're speculating, what do you want to happen?


Heh, well... since you asked...

I'd like for Dahl to get involved with someone new, an entirely new character who we're not sure about at first but who ends up being really good for him. I don't see this person as anyone in your books that we've seen so far.

Deep down, I do think I'd like to see Farideh become involved with Lorcan, but it would have to be a slightly changed Lorcan who truly does love her and is open about it.

Brin and Havilar are good for each other right now, but I don't see it working out in the end. Too much has happened for Brin and Havilar is still pretty much where she was before the "jump" Sairche gave them. I think she and Brin will eventually come to an understanding, but they'll part emotionally (even if he sticks around to help with the plot, etc).

More than that, I can't really think about. I have a strong feeling that BIG changes, and multiple changes at that, will be thrust upon all of them once they reach Cormyr.

4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!
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Crystyn
Seeker

58 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2013 :  08:12:35  Show Profile Send Crystyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Therise

quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans

quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Totally speculating here, since Erin said she loves speculation... and this isn't necessarily what I'd want to happen, just how I think things might flow going forward...

Since we're speculating, what do you want to happen?


Heh, well... since you asked...

I'd like for Dahl to get involved with someone new, an entirely new character who we're not sure about at first but who ends up being really good for him. I don't see this person as anyone in your books that we've seen so far.

Deep down, I do think I'd like to see Farideh become involved with Lorcan, but it would have to be a slightly changed Lorcan who truly does love her and is open about it.

Brin and Havilar are good for each other right now, but I don't see it working out in the end. Too much has happened for Brin and Havilar is still pretty much where she was before the "jump" Sairche gave them. I think she and Brin will eventually come to an understanding, but they'll part emotionally (even if he sticks around to help with the plot, etc).

More than that, I can't really think about. I have a strong feeling that BIG changes, and multiple changes at that, will be thrust upon all of them once they reach Cormyr.



Well there is the talkative Harper Khochen, she seems nice, and she doesn't shy to say what's on her mind, which quite frankly is necessary for anyone longer involved with Dahl.

I don't know if Lorcan can change any more than he already has, Drow need to be away from their society for good to be able to change after all.

I don't think coming to an understanding will be easy with and for Havilar.

I am eager to know just what Asmodeus has in place for his chosen, he does seem to be in discord with the original Brimstone Angel but unwilling to deal with her. I also hope to see more of Dahl and his struggle with his belief, I expected him to either rekindle it or even be a chosen but got no idea what's in stall for him or how it'll move him to cormyr.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Finally completed my Drizzt collection

Edited by - Crystyn on 24 Dec 2013 14:25:05
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
294 Posts

Posted - 26 Dec 2013 :  22:17:43  Show Profile  Visit ErinMEvans's Homepage Send ErinMEvans a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crystyn

quote:
Originally posted by Therise

quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans

quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Totally speculating here, since Erin said she loves speculation... and this isn't necessarily what I'd want to happen, just how I think things might flow going forward...

Since we're speculating, what do you want to happen?


Heh, well... since you asked...

I'd like for Dahl to get involved with someone new, an entirely new character who we're not sure about at first but who ends up being really good for him. I don't see this person as anyone in your books that we've seen so far.

Deep down, I do think I'd like to see Farideh become involved with Lorcan, but it would have to be a slightly changed Lorcan who truly does love her and is open about it.

Brin and Havilar are good for each other right now, but I don't see it working out in the end. Too much has happened for Brin and Havilar is still pretty much where she was before the "jump" Sairche gave them. I think she and Brin will eventually come to an understanding, but they'll part emotionally (even if he sticks around to help with the plot, etc).

More than that, I can't really think about. I have a strong feeling that BIG changes, and multiple changes at that, will be thrust upon all of them once they reach Cormyr.



Well there is the talkative Harper Khochen, she seems nice, and she doesn't shy to say what's on her mind, which quite frankly is necessary for anyone longer involved with Dahl.

I don't know if Lorcan can change any more than he already has, Drow need to be away from their society for good to be able to change after all.

I don't think coming to an understanding will be easy with and for Havilar.

I am eager to know just what Asmodeus has in place for his chosen, he does seem to be in discord with the original Brimstone Angel but unwilling to deal with her. I also hope to see more of Dahl and his struggle with his belief, I expected him to either rekindle it or even be a chosen but got no idea what's in stall for him or how it'll move him to cormyr.

Merry Christmas everyone.



*pen scratching* Okay that's...40% of Fire in the Blood done. What else do you have?

(Kidding. I already havea rough road map. But I do like hearing what people are picking up!)

Hope you all had a Merry Christmas as well!

www.slushlush.com
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2052 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2013 :  05:31:23  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm subscribed to the "Adversary, review spoilers" thread, but I might as well subscribe to this one as well, since somewhat different discussions are going on in each.

I don't like romance to be the center of a plot, but I am a hopeless romantic, and personally, I would love to have Farideh and Lorcan (in part because I love Lorcan as a character) get together and have it work out for them. I think Lorcan is developing feelings for her, anyway, however much in denial he may be about it lol.

Havi annoys me, but she and Brin do complete each other, so if they can adapt instead of die, that would be okay with me.

I hope Phalar is a a sign of things to come. I know the gods are returning, but I heard Wizards was only interested in Lolth as far as the drow go. If Vhaeraun and Eilistraee returned, it would be more of a footnote than anything, or that's what it sounded like to me. I really hope to see more followers of the Masked Lord and Eilistraee, so Phalar has me crossing my fingers.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Euranna
Learned Scribe

USA
219 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2013 :  21:49:17  Show Profile Send Euranna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am sure Brin is knocked right back to where he was the day Havi disappeared, and worse because now he is engaged!

I actually love Lorcan all evil and totally confused by how he is beginning to feel about Farideh. I get a sick pleasure from his discomfort I guess. I am enjoying his character growth (it actually also reminds me of a teenager growing into adulthood as well). But I don't want him to be a hero, or even "good". I am all for them being together and even being good for each other. I can see him easily acting in a way that will protect her because he cares about her (duh, already doing that), and be a kinda "ends justify the means" kinda guy.

I am hoping for Mehen to get a break soon. His girls come back, then get ripped from him again. He gets them back again, and so many things have changed. They are not little girls anymore. I don't want Mehen alone.

CD: I think the "Lolth-centricness" went away when the Sundering came to be. V can't have a Chosen if he is dead.

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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2052 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2013 :  23:41:39  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well even after the Sundering was declared, it sounded like Wizards was only interested in Lolth, despite the fact that the "dead" gods were coming back. It seemed like the return of V and E would be a "yeah they're back", but we wouldn't get any stories on their followers. But if that has changed, great! I would love stories about their followers

Sweet water and light laughter
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Crystyn
Seeker

58 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2013 :  06:23:08  Show Profile Send Crystyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Well even after the Sundering was declared, it sounded like Wizards was only interested in Lolth, despite the fact that the "dead" gods were coming back. It seemed like the return of V and E would be a "yeah they're back", but we wouldn't get any stories on their followers. But if that has changed, great! I would love stories about their followers



Dear god I hope they won't come back after they went to such lengths to get rid of them. Before that revive Deinier and release cadderly from his prison, bring back pre Midnight Mystra, even though she was kinda conceited, completely off cyric and move the focus to Kelemvor.

Finally completed my Drizzt collection
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2730 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2013 :  10:18:30  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crystyn

Dear god I hope they won't come back after they went to such lengths to get rid of them. Before that revive Deinier and release cadderly from his prison, bring back pre Midnight Mystra, even though she was kinda conceited, completely off cyric and move the focus to Kelemvor.



I don't feel like speculation about this particular topic is appropriate for the thread, so I'll just say this.

Vhaeraun and Eilistraee have all the ''rights'' to be back because of the depth and characterization they give to the drow. They bring to the table the point of view of the rebel who fights for the freedom of her people and to give them the possiblity of a better life, which opens up the race to more variety, ramifications, plot hooks, internal conflict/struggle... and this is a good thing for the story (particularly for the mostly one-note drow). Furthermore they are iconic to the realmsian dark elves, and the events that removed them from canon display many incongruences, when you consider the two siblings acting out of their character, or making choices that are outright pointless or self-defeating.

The Sundering will bring back gods en masse (Deneir will probably be back too, and the new Mystra has part of the consciousness of all her previous incarnations IIRC), so why should Lolth's children be cut out of this (btw, it looks like V is ''officially'' back, and most likely E is too, given how linked the two of them are)?

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 31 Dec 2013 10:33:22
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Crystyn
Seeker

58 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2013 :  10:38:43  Show Profile Send Crystyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Crystyn

Dear god I hope they won't come back after they went to such lengths to get rid of them. Before that revive Deinier and release cadderly from his prison, bring back pre Midnight Mystra, even though she was kinda conceited, completely off cyric and move the focus to Kelemvor.



I don't feel like speculation about this particular topic is appropriate for the thread, so I'll just say this.

Vhaeraun and Eilistraee have all the ''rights'' to be back because of the depth and characterization they give to the drow. They bring to the table the point of view of the rebel who fights for the freedom of her people and to give them the possiblity of a better life, which leads to possiblity of internal conflict, variety, ramifications, plot hooks for this race, and this is good for the setting (particularly for the mostly one-note drow). Furthermore they are iconic to the realmsian dark elves, and the events that removed them from canon display many incongruences when you consider the two siblings acting out of their character, or making choices that are outright self-defeating.

The Sundering will bring back gods en masse (Deneir will probably be back too, and the new Mystra has part of the consciousness of all her previous incarnations IIRC), so why should Lolth's children be cut out of this (btw, it looks like V is ''officially'' back, and most likely E is too, given how linked the two of them are)?



Vhaeraun and Eilistraee are detrimental to Drown society.
It gives them an easy way out and only half of one and that's not how it is supposed to be. Eilistraees believe is still matrimonial and Vhaerauns is still simply for male drow to escape the matrimonium.
I liked how War of the Spider Queen and Lady Penitent emptied the Drow pantheon, only Lolth is meant to be there.

And so far the Sundering only brought back Mask, Mystra was hinted, and we are already 3 books in.

But this is indeed the wrong place for this

Finally completed my Drizzt collection

Edited by - Crystyn on 31 Dec 2013 10:57:09
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2730 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2013 :  10:39:57  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
By saying that, you are ignoring what E and V are about (and there's no ''easy'' way out). We could discuss it through PM, if you wish

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 31 Dec 2013 12:20:04
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