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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Dec 2013 : 14:50:03
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Can anyone recommend good resources for lore on Illfern? I am trying to craft a few side adventures to go with the Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle module. I am looking for information on the elven nation or the Dwarven mountain city/fortress. I have already found the section in Lost Empires of Faerun. Also, I am looking for any sources that go over the history of Daggerford and its surrounding lands.
Mod edit: Corrected spelling in Subject line, to facilitate future searches for information. 
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Tarlyn Embersun |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 Dec 2013 15:15:22
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Alruane
Senior Scribe
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2013 : 14:59:27
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Lost Empires of Faerūn, p. 137
Lost Empires of Faerūn, p. 52.
Illefarn was an elven city-state that was founded during the First Flowering in -22900 DR, survived the Crown Wars, grew into an expansive nation and later fragmented into smaller realms.
Illefarn as a nation at its height, stretched along the Sword Coast, from just south of the settlement of Illusk, itself not far south of the Spine of the World, to the River Delimbiyr. Its capital was Aelinthaldaar which was built in the shadow of Mount Waterdeep.
Not much else I can provide. |
" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus
"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answers."
~Alruane |
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Alruane
Senior Scribe
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2013 : 15:01:52
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Try also:
The Grand History of the Realms by Ed Greenwood and Brian R. James
Pages 10 and 12 maybe?
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" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus
"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answers."
~Alruane |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2013 : 16:33:22
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| Thanks for the quick replies. It looks like the Mount Illefarn was part of the kingdom of Phalorm page 144 in Lost Empires of Faerun. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Farrel
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
239 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2013 : 16:47:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There's also an old module, N5 Under Illefarn. I've not read that one myself, though, so I can't attest to its lore.
I'm lucky enough to have this module and it is one of my favorites. Lots of good lore and not your run of the mill adventures. One of my players had a long standing feud running with Baron Agwain... ahhh memories.
Some of Under Illefarn is reproduced in The North (Guide to the Savage Frontier) 2e boxed set. |
Edited by - Farrel on 01 Dec 2013 16:49:54 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
201 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2013 : 22:05:42
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"Under Illefarn" is a good start for beginner players and DM. It details (with precisions) a small setting, few little adventures then a great one, in the dungeons of Illefarn.
"The North" box set contains references.
You may want to check "Hordes of Dragonspear Castle", who use the same lore than "Under Illefarn" but with a lot of editing. Reading it is more useful to complete local lore than for the adventure contains therein. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 03:55:37
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I don't have "Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle" so I'm not sure what's in it, but I know that it is based on some work Eric Boyd recently did on the area/region - basically a huge revamp of the old N5 "Under Illefarn" adventure.
As for lore on Illefarn, I'll be facetious and ask "which one?". There's the ancient elven empire, the union of the dwarves of Dardath and the elves of Ardeep in c. 200 DR (that morphed into Phalorm) or the ill-fated and fleeting "Illefarn" refounded by refugee moon elves from Eaerlann in the environs of the Ardeep Forest when their realm fell to the fiends of Hellgate Keep (c.882 DR). The elves of Ardeep are probably a better source of lore and adventure hooks than Illefarn.
If I get a chance tonight I'll post the stuff I came up with on my thread re the lineages of the region (rulers etc.) as well as a bit of backstory. I didn't give the material to WotC and it came out of my noggin', so I'll be daring and post it for the enjoyment of others.
You can also look at Eric's thread in the Chamber of Sages from about p.33, where can see some of the stuff he came up with.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 05:49:36
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I don't have "Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle" so I'm not sure what's in it, but I know that it is based on some work Eric Boyd recently did on the area/region - basically a huge revamp of the old N5 "Under Illefarn" adventure.
I'm reading that one right now... I'm not far into it, so I haven't really seen anything Illefarn-related -- but the adventure has already impressed me more than the 4E material did. Sure, it's got issues, but I'd rather have a goofy name that can be changed than try to explain something like the poorly implemented changes to the Sea of Fallen Stars. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 00:33:16
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@George Krashos
Thanks for the info. As for your facetious question my answer is: any of them that effects Daggerford and the surrounding area and for that matter any other ancient kingdoms that have ruins near there . Why limit my adventurers to finding out lore about only one lost ancient kingdom. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
Edited by - Tarlyn on 03 Dec 2013 00:34:19 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 09:44:47
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| I also center my adventures in Daggerford, although I play in anachrony in 1368 DR. I've used Under Illefarn, Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast and VG to the North, Savage Frontier and The North: Guide to the Savage Frontier. For Phalorm's Illefarn, the first book is the best, although I do use some info from The Grand History of the Realms. This book also brings some lore about the older Illefarn, whose capital stood where Waterdeep now lays. Lost Empires of Faerūn also brings some info, especially on Ardeep forest and the Floshin elven clan. In all of these books, look for "Illefarn" and for "Ardeep". |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 13:22:35
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Some of the info in the various products conflict (like the maps of Daggerford itself). Also, some of the stuff from the original Under Illefarn module didn't make a lot of sense, or simply dead-ended.
I hope that Under Illefarn Anew is someday released, even if its a pdf-only release (its 3e), because it revisits the original lore and adventure, fixes the broken bits and makes sense of everything else, and its just a DAMN GREAT FR PRODUCT over-all. All the history gets neatly woven together. If they release it - even as-is without art - I can guarantee anyone who is a fan of the Realms would pay dearly for it. It would be a crying shame if that just sat unpublished forever (and makes me wonder just how much other 'wonderful lore' they are just sitting on, that I am not privy to).
I just don't get them sometimes - it is a complete product, ready-to-go, and all they'd have to do is put it somewhere for sale and rake-in the coin (and split it with Eric). The only thing I can figure-out is that they want to use it for 5e, and I'm afraid of what that might mean for the original (cutting-room floor, meet 'best bits'). {sigh}
It would also mean it would be less useful to the 3e crowd - and considering the market-share of PF right now, its kind of stupid not to cater to those folks. In fact, imagine if they hired a Pathfinder-savvy guy to PF-it-up (make it 100% compatible) - you'd get an instant success (because those PF people buy everything in sight), and you have the PF/Golarion crowd now taking a serious look at FR going into 5e. How can that be anything but a plus?
Moving forward, all FR products should be multi-platform compatible - why put all your eggs in one basket? There's a ready-made fanbase (read: CONSUMERS) ready to be harnessed. Not really seeing this happen, but it would be a great thing. The reason why 3e was so successful (and continues to be, after 4e is dead & buried) is because of the open source - they need to get back to that. Propriety doesn't really work in this day-and-age.
And Under Illefarn Anew could open that door....  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Dec 2013 13:25:09 |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 07:34:06
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Under Illefarn Anew could also be a series for the WotC website as both Dungeon and Dragon will shortly be going into hibernation so the already-lacking-for-content-website is going to be lacking a whole lot more content than before! It would be a shame just to simply sit on what must be, based on the excepts in Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle and Eric's own thread here, a really solid product.
And, as Markustay points out, the success of Golarion's support products shows that there is a market for lore. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 13:25:44
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Actually, my point was that 3e (and therefor PF) compatible products still have a huge fanbase, and that's the edition UIA is designed for. The lore itself has its fans as well, but Paizo fans are the type of fan 4e was trying to create (and did, ironically, but not at all how they would have liked) - they aren't at all slaves to that lore. Its more along the lines of "this is how us official types see things going down - YMMV".
They love their lore, but they use it to base their own stuff on, rather then just adhere to it like its some sort of bible that can't be veered from.
Anyhow, I would prefer it in its original form, as one solid product, because of its nature you are likely to do a lot of cross-referencing, and that's a pain-in-the-butt if it were split into a series of articles. On the other hand, we could have both. After its run its course, they can then sell a compiled version (with 'added features'). Whatever they do with it, I am looking forward to seeing it in some form. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 15:09:35
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If you're looking for ancient realms related to Daggerford, look no further than Steeping Falls. Twas an ancient barony taken over by a shoon outlaw vampire who built a castle right where Daggerford stands today. That vampire was still around in 1374 DR living in Water deep after he just let his realm fall into ruin (see Vampires of Waterdeep module trilogy, Dungeon Magazine #126-128).
Not an awful lot of lore published on the place. You might ask Eric as Steeping Falls was another one of his babies. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 17:02:40
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
If you're looking for ancient realms related to Daggerford, look no further than Steeping Falls. Twas an ancient barony taken over by a shoon outlaw vampire who built a castle right where Daggerford stands today. That vampire was still around in 1374 DR living in Water deep after he just let his realm fall into ruin (see Vampires of Waterdeep module trilogy, Dungeon Magazine #126-128).
Not an awful lot of lore published on the place. You might ask Eric as Steeping Falls was another one of his babies.
Actually one of Ed's babies, first mentioned in Ed's "Athalantar" article in Dragon #228. All we had was that info when we started doing our Phalorm work, and I'll let you know a little secret: I gave him his name and decided that he was an outlaw from the lands of the Shoon. Dark Eric Boyd is the guy who decided to make him a vampire.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 19:13:07
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The number of Forgotten Realms - both great and small - in The North (and Backlands) is beyond counting. As Krash just pointed out, quite few of them are hinted at in Ed's Athalantar article, and I have found around a dozen coastal realms that have now 'vanished beneath the waves' all along the Swordcoast (and a fair number of them came from PftM and PotF). The North (and surrounding regions) were just like The Border Kingdoms, until recently (last thousand years or so). And thats not even counting all the humanoid nations that have come and gone.
I once commented that "you can't walk 10 feet in The Realms without tripping over some ruins", and Ed (via THO) responded, "Exactly!" Everything is built upon the 'bones' of some earlier culture, which itself was built on top of something else, ad infinitum.
Perhaps the 'roof' of the Underdark is the very bottom layer.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2014 : 21:03:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
Under Illefarn Anew could also be a series for the WotC website as both Dungeon and Dragon will shortly be going into hibernation so the already-lacking-for-content-website is going to be lacking a whole lot more content than before! It would be a shame just to simply sit on what must be, based on the excepts in Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle and Eric's own thread here, a really solid product.
And, as Markustay points out, the success of Golarion's support products shows that there is a market for lore.
Under Illefarn Anew is 99% done. I should have done in 1-2 weeks. Then I'll figure out how to get it out there. |
--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2014 : 23:24:04
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Eric has crafted an awesome start-up adventure here - let's hope it can get out there in some shape, way or form.
Fingers crossed.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 01:33:30
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| Totally stoked. :) |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 02:46:49
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| Ooh, that's intriguing. I really like the original as an intro adventure and location so am very much interested in this other. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 05:52:09
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Daggerford is one of my favorite locations in the Realms. A smallish place with great detail and lore supporting it and yet open enough for DMs to easily do anything they want without disrupting canon if they don't want to.
GK: Any chance we can get a post on that lore you drummed up? |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 06:15:37
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
GK: Any chance we can get a post on that lore you drummed up?
For Under Illefarn anew?
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 14:27:56
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| GK: I'm referring to your post from back in December. Just wondering if that bit of work you never submitted to WotC (or was it TSR at the time?) is still available. I'm a shameless thief of other people's work. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2014 : 09:17:42
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
Under Illefarn Anew could also be a series for the WotC website as both Dungeon and Dragon will shortly be going into hibernation so the already-lacking-for-content-website is going to be lacking a whole lot more content than before! It would be a shame just to simply sit on what must be, based on the excepts in Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle and Eric's own thread here, a really solid product.
And, as Markustay points out, the success of Golarion's support products shows that there is a market for lore.
Under Illefarn Anew is 99% done. I should have done in 1-2 weeks. Then I'll figure out how to get it out there.
That's tremendous news, Eric, and I really look forward to seeing what you have.
I've already collated all your posts in preparation for an eventual campaign set between Daggerford and Dragonspear and, frankly, your posts are what made me consider giving that region another look. Mike Schley's outstanding map was the clincher. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2014 : 13:02:05
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
GK: I'm referring to your post from back in December. Just wondering if that bit of work you never submitted to WotC (or was it TSR at the time?) is still available. I'm a shameless thief of other people's work.
I ended up posting most of that in my thread in the Chamber of Sages. Eric has the cleaned up, error free version though!
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Ren o the Research
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2014 : 00:23:15
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| Given the runaway success of 5e, I'd be very surprised if WotC devoted any resources to publications specifically intended for 3e or 3.5e. |
Hi there. I'm Ren, 30th level Ace Researcher. Here to separate the canon wheat from the non-canon chaff. |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2014 : 14:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
Under Illefarn Anew could also be a series for the WotC website as both Dungeon and Dragon will shortly be going into hibernation so the already-lacking-for-content-website is going to be lacking a whole lot more content than before! It would be a shame just to simply sit on what must be, based on the excepts in Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle and Eric's own thread here, a really solid product.
And, as Markustay points out, the success of Golarion's support products shows that there is a market for lore.
Under Illefarn Anew is 99% done. I should have done in 1-2 weeks. Then I'll figure out how to get it out there.
I'm very excited to hear this. I will fit it into my campaign. Many of our players like to use Daggerford as their origin. I could do a prequel for my group, or an origin story. YAY!
I'm one of those Pathfinder geeks that buys up anything and everything Forgotten Realms that is even possibly compatible with PF. |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2014 : 04:30:20
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Well, Under Illefarn Anew is finally finished, thanks to the help of several folks on these boards.
Now to figure out how to get it out there. Won't be too much longer, I hope. |
--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Good resources on Illefarn
