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Arcanus
Senior Scribe

485 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2014 :  23:34:39  Show Profile  Visit Arcanus's Homepage Send Arcanus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Not even the Twins or Mehen?

To each thier own I guess, I liked all the Characters.



Nope. This is why I wish that the sundering had been a simple trilogy written by one major author, rather than stringing it out loosely over 5 books. So far I have actually seen very little about this RSE. The other tales could have been written independently of the main event as it were.
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charger_ss24
Learned Scribe

USA
108 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2014 :  18:45:23  Show Profile Send charger_ss24 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Not even the Twins or Mehen?

To each thier own I guess, I liked all the Characters.



Nope. This is why I wish that the sundering had been a simple trilogy written by one major author, rather than stringing it out loosely over 5 books. So far I have actually seen very little about this RSE. The other tales could have been written independently of the main event as it were.



In response to one of your previous posts, I too, am having a hard time getting drawn in on The Adversary. What turned me off to start was all the pillow talk, romantic thoughts and angst surrounding Havilar. The book finally piqued my interest when Farideh and Dahl found their way in the company of Adolican Rhand. Hopefully it starts drawing me in now.

So far, I share you views overall with the Sundering. I'm fully expecting the next two books to be the same as these past three books, stand alone novels pitting the protagonist against the antagonist with tidbits of Sundering material. I'm holing out hope that The Herald will tie everything in together and we'll have a grand "ah ha!" moment.
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe

485 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2014 :  21:29:20  Show Profile  Visit Arcanus's Homepage Send Arcanus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by charger_ss24

quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Not even the Twins or Mehen?

To each thier own I guess, I liked all the Characters.



Nope. This is why I wish that the sundering had been a simple trilogy written by one major author, rather than stringing it out loosely over 5 books. So far I have actually seen very little about this RSE. The other tales could have been written independently of the main event as it were.



In response to one of your previous posts, I too, am having a hard time getting drawn in on The Adversary. What turned me off to start was all the pillow talk, romantic thoughts and angst surrounding Havilar. The book finally piqued my interest when Farideh and Dahl found their way in the company of Adolican Rhand. Hopefully it starts drawing me in now.

So far, I share you views overall with the Sundering. I'm fully expecting the next two books to be the same as these past three books, stand alone novels pitting the protagonist against the antagonist with tidbits of Sundering material. I'm holing out hope that The Herald will tie everything in together and we'll have a grand "ah ha!" moment.



I can see why they did it. Sew up loose ends with the other plots and also tell the sundering story. Two birds with one stone etc.
Trouble is with that is that the authors have to chop and change the stories they were going to tell originally. Paul kemps book is a good example. It felt very heavily chopped. That story deserved a trilogy on its own.
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oldSchoolFRfan
Acolyte

2 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2014 :  16:34:40  Show Profile Send oldSchoolFRfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Started reading the series yesterday and finished reading the Brimstone Angels series today and here's my thoughts:

The ~8 year hole sucked and didn't add anything.
The series writing was poor and generic with details/description about the environment, actions, sources, etc. Example: Where did Adolican Rhand appear after the light flashed before Havilars eyes and Farideh agreed to come with him? How come she couldn't she reach her even thought she was right next to her earlier just now?

Liked the twins characters tho.
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Euranna
Learned Scribe

USA
219 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2014 :  20:15:23  Show Profile Send Euranna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not to argue, but the 8 year gap in their lives is a part of Farideh's decision making process. Her guilt leads her down the path she takes, not once, but twice. Among other things, it has a huge psychological impact on all the primary characters that influenced their actions.

I don't think Havilar was right next to Farideh, I think she was close, but not within arms reach. Also, Havilar did not have time to react to Farideh's decision except with shock. Havilar would never had decided to leave with Rhand herself, so she did not expect Farideh to do so.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2648 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2014 :  20:36:09  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The eight-year gap did suck, but it was not Evan's decision. WotC moved the Realms ahead several years, and since the Brimstone Angels left off in 1479, there was no easy way to move it to 86 without interrupting the flow of the story.

Sweet water and light laughter
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jornan
Learned Scribe

Canada
256 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2014 :  04:22:58  Show Profile Send jornan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought the 8 year gap was nicely incorporated into several aspects of the story and interactions between characters. I liked these books and look forward to reading more of them. I wish other authors, Kemp and Byers specifically would get to continue their stories as well.
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oldSchoolFRfan
Acolyte

2 Posts

Posted - 13 Apr 2014 :  10:20:04  Show Profile Send oldSchoolFRfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Not to argue, but the 8 year gap in their lives is a part of Farideh's decision making process. Her guilt leads her down the path she takes, not once, but twice. Among other things, it has a huge psychological impact on all the primary characters that influenced their actions.


I might have overlooked the guilt process a bit since I was annoyed with the time-jump. I just kept thinking The classic "demand your firstborn" that has been around since the invention of religion.

Why didn't Sairche "breed" her or some related for heirs to trade, 2 favors , 2 baby heirs atleast but knowing the devil paramour it would probably have been (~8*12)/9 heirs.

There's nothing to say that she already hasn't bred her and her sister for more heirs while she was in stasis since we dont know much about that since it's purposely left blank so far tho now that i think about it. Maybe ((~8*12)/9)*2 heirs?
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe

485 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2014 :  14:44:30  Show Profile  Visit Arcanus's Homepage Send Arcanus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well finally finished it. The words 'hard slog' seem appropriate. The writing was generic, maybe less than. Filled with fluff and padding. The story dragged, the plot was poorly executed and the characters just annoyed me with their childish thoughts, feelings and actions.
No originality at all.
Disappointing to say the least and you could be forgiven for thinking that it had nothing to do with the sundering if you hadn't seen it on the cover.

I will have to put this in my top ten of Realms worst reads.

Edited by - Arcanus on 07 May 2014 14:45:18
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Crystyn
Seeker

58 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  01:43:40  Show Profile Send Crystyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus

[...]The story dragged, the plot was poorly executed and the characters just annoyed me with their childish thoughts, feelings and actions.



Maybe because they are children...

Personally loved the Adversy and Brimstone Angels is one of my favourite FR series just bested by the early Drizzt, Cadderly and Erevis Cale Sagas, maybe Kelemvors tale too (doen't care much about the others')

Heck I finished the Kindle version faster than Amazon was able to deliver the paperback.


Finally completed my Drizzt collection
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe

485 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  12:17:56  Show Profile  Visit Arcanus's Homepage Send Arcanus a Private Message  Reply with Quote


They are young adults that have hardly changed in their attitudes since the start of their story. Characters should grow, they should show how their experiences affect them. Not just be guilt and angst ridden all of the time. If I want angst I will read the drizzt books set in neverwinter lol.
It is curious that the books that you rate as your greatest realms fiction are the same that I hold dear.
Just goes to show that as an author you can't please everyone!


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Crystyn
Seeker

58 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  12:37:59  Show Profile Send Crystyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus



They are young adults that have hardly changed in their attitudes since the start of their story. Characters should grow, they should show how their experiences affect them. Not just be guilt and angst ridden all of the time. If I want angst I will read the drizzt books set in neverwinter lol.
It is curious that the books that you rate as your greatest realms fiction are the same that I hold dear.
Just goes to show that as an author you can't please everyone!






To be fair Brimstone Angels was set during a rather short timespan so expecting character growth in that short a time isn't very realistic. I agree that some of their decisions and reactions are very childish and or dumb but Farideh and Havilar lived a sheltered life up to their late teens for all we know they are just starting to live out their puberty.

Finally completed my Drizzt collection
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe

485 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  13:26:33  Show Profile  Visit Arcanus's Homepage Send Arcanus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crystyn

quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus



They are young adults that have hardly changed in their attitudes since the start of their story. Characters should grow, they should show how their experiences affect them. Not just be guilt and angst ridden all of the time. If I want angst I will read the drizzt books set in neverwinter lol.
It is curious that the books that you rate as your greatest realms fiction are the same that I hold dear.
Just goes to show that as an author you can't please everyone!






To be fair Brimstone Angels was set during a rather short timespan so expecting character growth in that short a time isn't very realistic. I agree that some of their decisions and reactions are very childish and or dumb but Farideh and Havilar lived a sheltered life up to their late teens for all we know they are just starting to live out their puberty.




True but it's not only the characters that bug me. To me the book was far too long for the story it told. It failed to draw me in. Full of clichè and predictability. For example, I knew who the ghost was before it was revealed who she was. Yawn. I expect more from authors, much more.
The total lack of sundering information was very disappointing. The book doesn't belong in the series because it has nothing to do with it.

Edited by - Arcanus on 08 May 2014 16:22:27
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Crystyn
Seeker

58 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  16:48:51  Show Profile Send Crystyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus

True but it's not only the characters that bug me. To me the book was far too long for the story it told. It failed to draw me in. Full of clichè and predictability. For example, I knew who the ghost was before it was revealed who she was. Yawn. I expect more from authors, much more.
The total lack of sundering information was very disappointing. The book doesn't belong in the series because it has nothing to do with it.




Haven't read the latest 2 Sundering books yet but The Adversary revealed much of the chosen system as well as Vhaerauns resurrection, the workings of the demons court among other things.

Finally completed my Drizzt collection
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charger_ss24
Learned Scribe

USA
108 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  16:57:51  Show Profile Send charger_ss24 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:

The total lack of sundering information was very disappointing. The book doesn't belong in the series because it has nothing to do with it.




If there was one book that lists the nuts and bolts of the Sundering, it was this book. And if there was one book that had nothing to do with the Sundering, it was The Companions.

I do agree with you though, The Adversary was an awful read IMO.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2648 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  17:17:11  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This was one of my favorite books in the Sundering series. It was slow at times, yes, but I felt the last two books, while good, lacked detail ans character depth. The Adversary did not. It was very well done

Sweet water and light laughter
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe

485 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  19:24:17  Show Profile  Visit Arcanus's Homepage Send Arcanus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crystyn

quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus

True but it's not only the characters that bug me. To me the book was far too long for the story it told. It failed to draw me in. Full of clichè and predictability. For example, I knew who the ghost was before it was revealed who she was. Yawn. I expect more from authors, much more.
The total lack of sundering information was very disappointing. The book doesn't belong in the series because it has nothing to do with it.




Haven't read the latest 2 Sundering books yet but The Adversary revealed much of the chosen system as well as Vhaerauns resurrection, the workings of the demons court among other things.



Not really. The only way it showed the chosen system was to introduce glyphs that could be seen by one person. We already new about chosen growing into their powers etc.
The gods are being ressurected anyway so no new info there really.
How the demon court works has already been mentioned elsewhere, it also has no direct impact on the sundering.

All the book says is that change is afoot and the gods are nervous etc. Thats already been said elsewhere too.


Edited by - Arcanus on 08 May 2014 19:27:01
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Crystyn
Seeker

58 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  19:42:40  Show Profile Send Crystyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus

Not really. The only way it showed the chosen system was to introduce glyphs that could be seen by one person. We already new about chosen growing into their powers etc.
The gods are being ressurected anyway so no new info there really.
How the demon court works has already been mentioned elsewhere, it also has no direct impact on the sundering.

All the book says is that change is afoot and the gods are nervous etc. Thats already been said elsewhere too.


Companions: Return of the weave, the Gods' marks

The Godborn: Return of Mask, weakening of Shar

The Adversary: Hint to Vhaerauns return, Azmodeus plan

Most of this was foreshadowed long ago just because ppl knew it were coming doesn't mean it wasn't new.

The Herald will most likely tell us which Mystra (or all of them) will come back.

Finally completed my Drizzt collection
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
503 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  20:33:32  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not really sure why The Adversary is being singled out for having nothing to do with the Sundering. All books in the series have been guilty of barely having any info concerning the Sundering.

Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe

485 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  20:55:44  Show Profile  Visit Arcanus's Homepage Send Arcanus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

Not really sure why The Adversary is being singled out for having nothing to do with the Sundering. All books in the series have been guilty of barely having any info concerning the Sundering.



Oh I know. I was under the impression that the sundering would unfold in each book. They are all failing in that regard. The discussion at hand started with my review on the adversary, as this thread is devoted to said book then it stands to reason that it is taking flak.
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe

485 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  21:01:16  Show Profile  Visit Arcanus's Homepage Send Arcanus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crystyn

quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus

Not really. The only way it showed the chosen system was to introduce glyphs that could be seen by one person. We already new about chosen growing into their powers etc.
The gods are being ressurected anyway so no new info there really.
How the demon court works has already been mentioned elsewhere, it also has no direct impact on the sundering.

All the book says is that change is afoot and the gods are nervous etc. Thats already been said elsewhere too.


Companions: Return of the weave, the Gods' marks

The Godborn: Return of Mask, weakening of Shar

The Adversary: Hint to Vhaerauns return, Azmodeus plan

Most of this was foreshadowed long ago just because ppl knew it were coming doesn't mean it wasn't new.

The Herald will most likely tell us which Mystra (or all of them) will come back.



As you point out-nothing new really. The series so far is just about finishing the story arcs of the authors characters.

Anyway, I have RLB's book next. Hope things improve.
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

595 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  21:59:48  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crystyn

Most of this was foreshadowed long ago just because ppl knew it were coming doesn't mean it wasn't new.
But there were no details at all. It revelead barely more than the hints already had. Reading the full novels leaves one none the wiser than reading the jacket blurb
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Crystyn
Seeker

58 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2014 :  22:06:10  Show Profile Send Crystyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek

But there were no details at all. It revelead barely more than the hints already had. Reading the full novels leaves one none the wiser than reading the jacket blurb



After the Avatar series was so universally disliked it'll be a while, if at all, 'til we see that much involvement with the gods again.

I only liked them because Kelemvor and Mask are some of my favourite FR characters, Midnight and Cyric are the most annoying though.

Finally completed my Drizzt collection

Edited by - Crystyn on 08 May 2014 22:07:14
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
214 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2014 :  12:49:48  Show Profile Send ksu_bond a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For those who enjoyed this book...you may want to take a peek at the follow-up book - http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Blood-Erin-M-Evans/dp/0786965290/ref=pd_sim_b_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=1CNRJ93BB5G9HX4VHVXJ
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe

USA
388 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2014 :  14:00:03  Show Profile Send Entromancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought this book had the Shadovar gathering the Chosen into containment camps?

"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul

"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul
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