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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 02 Dec 2013 :  16:10:50  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I always thought that Eltab himself engineered the downfall of Eltabranar. He was bound to their service for 99 years and probably unable to do them direct harm, but whispering how mighty and invincible they are and how much he would be able to help them they get all over confident and declare war on Mulhorand.

Eltab then comes up against Anhur and was hoping to do a runner but he didnt count on Hadryllis and being bound to a demoncyst again.

Eltabranar dies and Eltab's service is conveniently over as he planned all along, unfortunately he is stuck beneath Thaymount.

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sleyvas
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Posted - 02 Dec 2013 :  16:56:19  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Reading Eltab's history, i find it curious that in every note of his imprisonment it mentions that it was a demoncyst used to imprison him in.

Apart from when the witches of Rashemen tracked him to the Sharawood and imprisoned him beneath it.

Kind of says to me they had to find some other way to imprison him (after all why would Eltab hide near a demoncyst if he knows he can be imprisoned in them so easily), what are the chances that a demoncyst exists all the way south in the one place Eltab chose to flee to, its seems too easy.

It is just a shame that the Sharawood and Pelevaran are so far away, it would be so much better if they were nearby and Eltab and Gargauth occupied the same endless pit at different times.

Anyway. Astaroth may well have been a powerful tanar'ri lord in service to Eltab. After all Eltab has 99 years of servitude to the theocracy of Eltabranar, stands to reason he would summon a few demons to his side (or more likely whisper some words of persuasion in a few priestly ears and get them to call them to the realms).

Eltab is known to have many powerful Balors serve him on his plane (Ndulu being one) so Astaroth may have been a contemporary of Ndulu. Balors are awesomely powerful and Gargauth draining one of them is going to boost his power quite considerably.

I'm not so sure of Eltabranar and Gargauth's realm existing at the same time - the dwarves of Underholme might have noted down an unholy war going on on their doorstep - after all demons and devils cant help but continue the bloodwar everywhere they go.

But there is nothing to say Halaster did not spend some time in Eltabranar studying demons, before it fell to Mulhorand and Unther. Then Astaroth heads west and sets up hidden Peleveria in a cliff face and along comes Gargauth and drains him dry. Halaster also happens to be in Peleveria at some point and binds him to the endless pit.




Hmmm, I may have miswrote something if you think I said Gargauth ever had a realm. He didn't. He had cults and he hunted down fiends for their power. Peleveria was just a follow up country that would seem to encompass roughly the same areas as the previous Eltabranar, but 8 centuries separate the two. When Peleveria formed, don't know. What happened in between Peleveria and Eltabranar would require some research.



The facts that we know are that Gargauth "killed" Astaroth, but we also know that Astaroth is now a vestige. Astaroth is actually imprisoned in the Wells of Darkness (73rd layer of the abyss) which has these "wells" that have links to "shattered night". He continually is trying to be resurrected by the Abyss, but Gargauth set hellfire into the well that consumes him before he can reform. This layer is used as a kind of prison, and it used to be used by followers of Ahazu to turn beings into vestiges. Astaroth had actually made some kind of agreement with Ahazu to let his body be imprisoned here after he died so that he could safely reform (a fact which Gargauth twisted). This information is found in Dungeon #148, page 66.

Perhaps after learning of the wells of darkness through killing Astaroth he began searching out similar planar anomalies on Toril, and he found one in the Dark Pit of Maleficence. Maybe he "stored" many fiendish beings in this Pit over the years. Maybe he fought Eltab there, but he was the loser for once and found himself imprisoned (possibly due to Hilather's involvement). Hell, maybe Eltab learned of many demons being stored there, because the planar tear to shattered night (aka the Dark Pit of Maleficence) was actually an accidental creation of the Imaskari and Hilather told Eltab of it.

"http://www.scribd.com/doc/38835505/Tome-of-Magic-Additional-Vestige-Collection-v2-1-2"


Interestingly enough.... Astaroth's form sounds surprisingly like a race of beings mentioned in GHotR (both feathered and draconic). Not sure what to make of that at all. Perhaps the battle between Astaroth and Gargauth was LONG ago.

Manifestation:

Astaroth’s misty form rises up from his seal like a cloud of steam, slowly condensing into theform of a handsome human with draconic and feathered wings. His serpentine tongue flicks nervously as hisbody is slowly consumed with hellfire.

From GHotR, page 7

The last entry in the journal records a remarkable find. Far to the north, hovering above an ice-filled bay, Eartharran discovered an apparently abandoned floating city. During a brief exploration of the place with his crew, the captain sketched several examples of the remarkable statuary they found. From his drawings, it appears that
the city must once have been inhabited by a humanoid race with both draconic and avian features— that is, scales and feathers. The captain openly speculates as to whether the aearee, as he called
these creatures, were the descendants of great wyrms who had evolved avian characteristics, or the forebears of both the draconic and the avian races. The captain’s entry ends with a brief note that he and his crew were forced to flee back to their ship to escape a wing of wyrms that had suddenly appeared on the horizon. I can only guess at the fate of Eartharran and his crew, but the discovery of a broken
black dragon scale amid the wreckage of the ship suggests that their journey met a violent end.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
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USA
7597 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2013 :  17:04:20  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I always thought that Eltab himself engineered the downfall of Eltabranar. He was bound to their service for 99 years and probably unable to do them direct harm, but whispering how mighty and invincible they are and how much he would be able to help them they get all over confident and declare war on Mulhorand.

Eltab then comes up against Anhur and was hoping to do a runner but he didnt count on Hadryllis and being bound to a demoncyst again.

Eltabranar dies and Eltab's service is conveniently over as he planned all along, unfortunately he is stuck beneath Thaymount.




True, he may have seen the means to create himself an empire and sought to expand. Hilather may have worked both ends there (or he may not have been involved at all and just watched happily), possibly encouraging the two empires to fight and possibly crush one another. After all, the mulan peoples probably didn't like the theocracy of Eltabranar (especially if as I've supposed in some other threads a month or two back that Myrkul may have been involved with the Theurgist Adepts a few millennia prior).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Demzer
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658 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2013 :  21:09:23  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Damn, i turn my head for a day and you run off with all this juicy speculation!

Going in order from my last post (and avoiding nasty multiquote shuffle-effects):

1 - The three Demonsbane shields were created by the church of Anachtyr in 44 DR to aid paladin champions in battling fiends in the Calishar Emirates (modern day Amn and southern Sword Coast) [Source Dragons of Faerun, page 135, starting at line 13 from the top of the page]. Excluding that someone created three shields with the exact same names, these are the same three shields used by Impilturan Princes in 786 to banish Ndulu. The thirteen Demonshields were created by Halaster/Hilather in 132 DR and at this point we have sixteen shields made to battle/control demons, divided in two subsets (3 from Anachtyr's faithful and 13 from Halaster).

2 - Gargauth's relation with Astaroth is way more interesting than just "they met under the moonlight and only one walked away". Actually it was Astaroth that infiltrated the Hells and Gargauth was tasked with his destruction. More informations are in Eric L. Boyd's article on Dragon Magazine 357 called Savage Tidings: Gazing into the Abyss, i'll post a question about this story in Eric's thread here at the 'Keep but he hasn't been active since last year it seems.

3 - For me, the effects of "Shattered Night" and it's wondrous binding powers are way too effective to let any "mere" archwizard mess with them and release/bind fiends at will with it (we are talking about godly beings trapped there for eons and with no means of escape, i'm really reluctant to have Halaster casually stop by for 4 years and succeeding were gods and archfiends failed for eons). I find it way more believable that, if Halaster indeed knew about the 73rd Layer, he just experimented tossing fiends in the pools and noting/studying the results with all the magical investigation means at his disposal. Four years later he was able to devise some new binding ritual inspired by his studies of "Shattered Night".

4 - Astaroth was a unique demon, deeply involved with the Blood War and called "Diabolus" by his fellows because he could infiltrate the Hells without risks. He got to the rank of "treasure of Hell", a rank reserved for the greater unique devils that work directly with Asmodeus, then Gargauth discovered him and forced him out of the Hells. Astaroth retreated to the Abyss and started to gather cultists on various Primes, [start of personal musing] on one of these Primes, Toril, Gargauth finally caught up with Astaroth [end of personal musing] and Gargauth killed him (probably with hellfire). At this point, since Astaroth made a pact with Ahazu, his body was bound inside one of the Wells of Darkness (Source Dragon Magazine 357, except for the personal musing). Oh and on his appearance i would be cautious in linking it to any race: unique demons and devils have all kind of weird appendages/wings/tails/claws/pincers/whatever with layers of scaly/feathered/whatever skin attached without actually having any relation to similarly shaped races/monsters.

5 - The idea that Hilather got caught up with Eltab and the Myrkulites and started catching up on all the Realms changes while playing demon-binder on the side is intriguing and interesting at the same time. As is very interesting the notion that the Dark Pit was/is a planar tear/rift, seeing how Halaster was(is?) deeply into planar and conjuration/summoning/binding magic and gates/portals (i mean, just look at Undermountain!)
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sleyvas
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USA
7597 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2013 :  02:02:51  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer

Damn, i turn my head for a day and you run off with all this juicy speculation!

Going in order from my last post (and avoiding nasty multiquote shuffle-effects):

1 - The three Demonsbane shields were created by the church of Anachtyr in 44 DR to aid paladin champions in battling fiends in the Calishar Emirates (modern day Amn and southern Sword Coast) [Source Dragons of Faerun, page 135, starting at line 13 from the top of the page]. Excluding that someone created three shields with the exact same names, these are the same three shields used by Impilturan Princes in 786 to banish Ndulu. The thirteen Demonshields were created by Halaster/Hilather in 132 DR and at this point we have sixteen shields made to battle/control demons, divided in two subsets (3 from Anachtyr's faithful and 13 from Halaster).

2 - Gargauth's relation with Astaroth is way more interesting than just "they met under the moonlight and only one walked away". Actually it was Astaroth that infiltrated the Hells and Gargauth was tasked with his destruction. More informations are in Eric L. Boyd's article on Dragon Magazine 357 called Savage Tidings: Gazing into the Abyss, i'll post a question about this story in Eric's thread here at the 'Keep but he hasn't been active since last year it seems.

3 - For me, the effects of "Shattered Night" and it's wondrous binding powers are way too effective to let any "mere" archwizard mess with them and release/bind fiends at will with it (we are talking about godly beings trapped there for eons and with no means of escape, i'm really reluctant to have Halaster casually stop by for 4 years and succeeding were gods and archfiends failed for eons). I find it way more believable that, if Halaster indeed knew about the 73rd Layer, he just experimented tossing fiends in the pools and noting/studying the results with all the magical investigation means at his disposal. Four years later he was able to devise some new binding ritual inspired by his studies of "Shattered Night".

4 - Astaroth was a unique demon, deeply involved with the Blood War and called "Diabolus" by his fellows because he could infiltrate the Hells without risks. He got to the rank of "treasure of Hell", a rank reserved for the greater unique devils that work directly with Asmodeus, then Gargauth discovered him and forced him out of the Hells. Astaroth retreated to the Abyss and started to gather cultists on various Primes, [start of personal musing] on one of these Primes, Toril, Gargauth finally caught up with Astaroth [end of personal musing] and Gargauth killed him (probably with hellfire). At this point, since Astaroth made a pact with Ahazu, his body was bound inside one of the Wells of Darkness (Source Dragon Magazine 357, except for the personal musing). Oh and on his appearance i would be cautious in linking it to any race: unique demons and devils have all kind of weird appendages/wings/tails/claws/pincers/whatever with layers of scaly/feathered/whatever skin attached without actually having any relation to similarly shaped races/monsters.

5 - The idea that Hilather got caught up with Eltab and the Myrkulites and started catching up on all the Realms changes while playing demon-binder on the side is intriguing and interesting at the same time. As is very interesting the notion that the Dark Pit was/is a planar tear/rift, seeing how Halaster was(is?) deeply into planar and conjuration/summoning/binding magic and gates/portals (i mean, just look at Undermountain!)



Speculations the fun of everything

Oh, and btw, thanks for the references. So much of this is spread across so many books. It really helps. I'm going to respond in kind.

1 - ok, so this makes the demonsbane shields NOT be redeemed demonshields, because Anachtyr's followers made them in 44 DR. So, while interesting and they do in fact come into use against Narfellian forces, they aren't a Hilather/Halaster link.

2 - will have to read that, I know Astaroth invaded hell and became Diabolus, then got chased out by Gargauth. There's a little more in the info about Astaroth's vestige.

3 - hmmmm, I do like that the Dark Pit of Maleficence is another link to shattered night. However, you're right, I don't want it to be any simple matter for Hilather/Halaster to control it. Especially since it was a 20 year ritual from the cult of the dragon to free Gargauth. I'm really envisioning his linkage as providing something akin to a pact with the bound being (aka binder style pact magic), though possibly an even "stronger" pact than what one normally gets. If you look at the effects of the only demonshield given, it would fit well with pact magic, as it provides certain types of defensive energies (DR, elemental immunities/resistances, The only thing I don't like is that when the shield is destroyed, something gets loose. But then, perhaps what happens is if its destroyed it opens a temporary portal to the abyss... it doesn't free the linked entity... I'd be interested to hear other options, as I'm not exactly fond of what I just came up with.

4 - cool, I had found this same info on a web site, but didn't know where it was from. Dragon 357. Yeah, I'm hesitant to tie him to some weird version of the creator races, but it is interesting enough to put that as a back burner idea. Nothing to do with Halaster/Hilather though, so moving on.

5 - yeah, I'm really liking the part where Hilather/Halaster got involved with Eltabranar. I think so far that's the best part and most solidly built part we have. I also like that the Dark Pit is a planar tear. How this planar tear appeared on Toril.... now that part is up for debate. Personally, I'd like to blame the Imaskari for somehow ACCIDENTALLY creating the planar tear to shattered night. I'd also like to say that they were imprisoning beings in it, kind of as an experiment of "lets see what happens". I'd also like to say that the Imaskari maybe had some "cultists" of Ahazu who used this methodology to create new vestiges from fiends that they captured and bound, and that the Imaskari had a lot of knowledge on pact magic that's been lost over time. Personally, I like the idea that Halaster has some knowledge of pact magic (i.e. he's an anima mage), but the canon information doesn't support this.

I do also like the idea that Gargauth also learned of the Dark Pit of Maleficence and was imprisoning beings in it after performing some ritual to strip them of their power. Throw in that he figured he'd mess with Eltab during the reign of Eltabranar and SOMEHOW Hilather showed up and tipped the scales in Eltab's favor (it may have been as simple as maybe he magically tied up/held Gargauth temporarily and then Eltab pushed him into the pit... maybe its relatively easy to put beings in and hard to take them out). It gives us a reason for Gargauth being entrapped, having knowledge of the Everlasting Wyrm, etc...

I also like the idea that Gargauth devised a ritual that only freed the baatezu entrapped within the Dark Pit and encouraged Drakewings to use it. There may have been a lot of Baatezu that were entrapped in the pit by the Imaskari and not by Gargauth, and so in doing so he not only freed himself but helped the hells as well (and probably got himself some new hellish allies). This would of course be why sages think the well is linked to Baator.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 03 Dec 2013 :  06:13:00  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Those were some ace references. If I remember rightly the anachtyr demonsbane shields were the inspiration for the Shoon empire and Halaster to create the demonshields.

Just one question, how did Gargauth know about the everlasting wyrm, I must have missed that bit. Otherwise it's all looking relatively solid, at least as solid as scattered bits of realmslore can anyway

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Demzer
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658 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2013 :  10:51:23  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I say we can try to glue it all together with two moves:
1 - Blame it all on the Imaskari
2 - Give some stage time to Fraz-Urb'Luu
3 - ???
4 - Profit

To elaborate i would like to point at this interesting bit in Grand History of the Realms page 18, wholly dedicated to the Imaskari, fourth paragraph:
"In –6422 DR, rampaging krakentua razed the Imperial City of Inupras, forcing the Imaskari to abandon their ancient capital. How the demon spirits entered the city is unknown, but popular opinion later placed the blame on the Cult of Demogorgon, since the krakentua first emerged from the Temple of the Gaping Maw in the city’s center."
While i doubt the Imaskari worshipped demons the classical way, i think that, given their interest in planar magic, they had extensive relationships with them. And if they had a "Temple to Gaping Maw" in their capital city, i bet they had a lot more dealings with demons than with devils (probably viewing the "contracts" and pacts with devils as the same kind of binding relationship a faithful enters with his/her deity, demons on the other hand are as likely to renege on their pacts as any evil selfish human). So it's perfectly reasonable to have the Imaskari forge alliances with demons and maybe renege on agreements from time to time (the destruction of Inupras may very well had been one such occassion in which some smart-ass artificer decided to mess with a pact with Demogorgon) and capturing/binding devils is just one of the hundreds possible ways the Imaskari fulfilled their ends of the bargains. So we have the Imaskari messing around, binding devils and opening portals and planar rifts on a whim (seeing how much they employed traslocation magic and planar magic it's a wonder we don't have MORE reports of Imaskari screwing things up and permanent planar rifts forming anywhere in eastern Faerun/central Toril). In conclusion, we can freely say the Dark Pit was an Imaskari binding/planar experiment gone wrong (noting that at its peak, the Imaskari empire stretched south to the Durpari lands and Ulgarth so a few outposts in modern day Shaar are reasonable).

Some time later (centuries? millennias?) Fraz-Urb'Luu enters the scene, he is involved in a complex backstabbing maneuver that has Eltab bound on Toril with most of his leutanants and servitor demons (Ndulu got banished back home with some buddies only in 786 DR), he (and probably all self-respecting abyssal lords) knows about Astaroth's fate and about the fact Gargauth likes to wander Toril and kill/absorb/bind powerful fiends stranded there. His involvment in the "Eltab affair" ensures that he knows practically everything about him and his binding status at any time (including about the Everlasting Wyrm), we can say he keeps tabs on Eltab (... ok that was bad, sorry!). Eltab gets released by the Myrkulites and is free to do what he pleases, Fraz knows the old bullhead will find a way to renege on his pact with the fanatics and go about his business so he tips off Gargauth about this powerfull fiend bound on Toril and weakened by ages of imprisonment and a pact with lunatic fanatics.
Fraz motives are simple: if the two battle and Eltab bites the dust he has more time to further his schemes and try to seize Eltab's Layer (either because the Adamantine Binding snatches Eltab back inside a Demoncyst or Gargauth beats the crap out of him and Eltab has to spend time reforming in the Abyss and, once reformed, his mightily weakened), if on the other hand is Gargauth that bites the dust then Fraz has won a great victory for the Abyss in the Blood War (using Eltab as a pawn, to add insult to injury) gaining political influence and swaying the opinion of lesser demons to his advantage (thus strenghtening his armies and power in the Abyss).
Thus we have the Eltab-Gargauth fight we were looking for and we have Hilather tipping the balance in Eltab's favor by helping the Myrkulites bind Gargauth someplace outside their "holy realm" of Eltabranar, someplace with planar connections and binding rituals ready to be used, someplace the old Imaskari artificer knows was built to hold, bind and capture devils: the Dark Pit.
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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 03 Dec 2013 :  11:48:18  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds good to me, i'm still trying to locate the dungeon and dragon magazines in my collection so i can read more into the background for Astaroth and Gargauth before i give a final thumbs up but it gets a provisional thumbs up from me.

I do like the Fraz'Urb-Luu throw in as well, i always forget it is him that screwed over Eltab by helping the Narfelli bind him.

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sleyvas
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Posted - 03 Dec 2013 :  14:02:28  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I LIKE IT! The Fraz link is great. Then we have a perfectly trapped Gargauth for Hilather to play with as he makes the Shield of the Hidden Lord. Whenever Eltab finds out what Hilather is doing, perhaps that sparks conflict between the two (he worries that the archmage may try to entrap him in a device... which Hilather may have been planning to do). Hilather flees to the Shoon Imperium, where he agrees to construct demonshields. He creates a portal linkage from beneath his tower that actually connects to a major demoncyst somewhere in the Unapproachable East (maybe... I kind of like the idea though... its simpler and more elegant I think), and binds entrapped demons from the demoncyst into shields.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 27 Feb 2014 :  16:20:52  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dont know how it happened but i came across gargauth again in the cult of the dragon sourcebook and i had a read of the Shield of the Hidden Lords abilities.

+4 mithril shield covered in precious gems. Grants wearer protection from arrows and the tongues ability.

I dont know why but this shield doesnt seem like something Halaster would create, it certainly isnt like the other shields even if it is a prototype.

I can only think that either it is elven make and Gargauth was accidentally trapped in it for a time.

Or that given the previous metals and gemstones on its surface and the tongues ability then Gargauth fashioned it himself and trapped himself in it which would not be out of the question for a devil on the run. What better place to hide.

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hashimashadoo
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Posted - 27 Feb 2014 :  16:38:57  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cloak and Dagger (p72) doesn't clear this question up either. Just that it was found in the Fields of the Dead and that Gargauth's followers believe it's a manifestation of Gargauth.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 27 Feb 2014 :  16:47:12  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It does seem like a sensible option to me.

The shield is totally unrelated to devil binding in every way. In fact its powers are very beneficial and almost good aligned (helping the wielder communicate with others while keeping him alive).

Almost as if it were a ruse, to lull the wielder into thinking its a nice item and have no idea this guy is or was hiding in it.

I dont know that Gargauth was ever trapped in this shield i think he just trapped a portion of himself in it (kind of like a liches phylactery).

Halaster must have found it during his travels and from it learned how to bind Gargauth specifically which helped him in actually binding Gargauth into that pit using ancient Imaskari magic. Curiously the description of Gargauths bindings describe them as ancient magic, not that they were cast in ancient times.

It would be nice if scheming Gargauth's own instrument was used against him.

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sleyvas
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Posted - 27 Feb 2014 :  23:14:47  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing to consider. Once Gargauth was FREED from it (assuming he had been entrapped), the abilities may have changed. Essentially, having an entrapped devil in it may have given it some interesting abilities fueled by the entrapped being.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Tigon
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Posted - 15 Feb 2018 :  12:48:40  Show Profile Send Tigon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another case of thread necromancy...

In regards to the "Everlasting Wyrm", is there ever a description given for this dragon?

As I pointed out on another thread, on page 23 of Powers & Pantheons:

"Gargauth is a loner. His few servants are undead and other creatures he can control with his charm monster ability, such as snakes and blue dragons He is often encountered astride Rathguul, a great blue wyrm with maximum hit points who serves as his steed as part of an ancient contract..."

Could this everylasting wyrm be Gargauth's own steed... Rathguul? Certainly would be an attractive lure for the COTD as well.
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sleyvas
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Posted - 16 Feb 2018 :  00:28:46  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From 3.5 Dragons of Faerun, Roll Call of Dragons. They give the name and make it a green dragon.

Xavarathimius, CR 27 Dracolich Male great wyrm green Sharawood, Shaar “The Everlasting Wyrm”

However, thank you for the thread necromancy... I had forgotten Demzer's interesting ideas involving Fraz'urb-luu, Hilather, Gargauth, and Eltab.

Even moreso, I'm now picturing Hilather/Halaster as an anima mage (mixing wizardry and binding magic), and that maybe part of his craziness is that he did this creating of link form the dark pit of maleficence to wells of darkness/shattered night using a ritual that had his mind touch into the wells of darkness and the place where vestiges go. Given my interests in Peleveran, this is a great find. Now ... how to work it....

Even more fits that I want to have Thayd's disappearance around the time of the formation of the Zulkirate, the fall of Peleveran, and the release of Gargauth. If Thayd is going to the Pit of Maleficence because he's Imaskari, and the Imaskari made the Pit, and he knows Halaster did something there... maybe he goes there and Halaster shows up (because he got the alarm that Gargauth is free) and entraps Thayd as a vestige (because my original story also had Thayd as an anima mage... a lot of Imaskari in my book were anima mages.... as were the Theurgist Adepts). Halaster may have also entrapped Jorgmacdon, the first Zulkir of Conjuration, there somehow, since I want him freed in Peleveran.

Hmmm, gotta remember was also having Thayd possessing a dragon simply because it was the only creature he could find with enough hit die for his "suel lich" type form... and the dragon rage was going on too.

Hmmmm, what if Halaster's shattering also had something to do with the Dark Pit of Maleficence and the wells of darkness.... what if Halaster is now a vestige?

Hmmm, several things to tie together, but it could make a good story.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 16 Feb 2018 00:56:48
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