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 Wooly's newest musing: Halaster's Success?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  05:15:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Okay, so I had another random thought today...

First, some random factoids.

Halaster has been around for a very long time. Long enough to predate Mystra 1.0. I've seen some speculation in these halls that he might have had some connection to Mystryl, perhaps even to the point of being one of her Chosen.

Shar had an interest in Halaster, too, and Mystra 2.0 personally used him as her agent.

Halaster somehow knew something was coming, and was working against it.

Halaster is rumored to have clones and contingency magic, and we know that he hosted one of the Manshoon clones for a while, so he could have had access to stasis clone, if not something better. Yet none of his contingency/backup magics seem to have done anything!

Halaster was practically invulnerable while within Undermountain. That said, he'd been attacked and taken out of there before... Now, if he'd been attacked before, and he was working on something of vital importance, then he should have had wards, barriers, and protective magic out the yin-yang when he was working on that last project. And yet, someone got thru and messed things up, anyway.

Despite Halaster's apparent demise, there have been indications that he is, in some way, still in Undermountain.

So...

What if Halaster's demise wasn't an accident? What if that was his goal? What if his project required his demise, and the attack by his enemies was actually anticipated by him and taken into account?

In short, what if Halaster had a goal that necessitated spending time as disembodied soul shards, for a prolonged period of time?

We know from Ed that Araumycos acts to anchor the Weave. What if Halaster's demise was meant to tie himself to the Realms, and either act as an anchor, like Araumycos, or to in some other way preserve the Weave and/or Mystra?

It could even be something he's been set to do since Mystryl prepared him, centuries ago!

I realize this is all supposition and stringing together random bits, and that there is little to back any of it up. But what if...?

Thoughts?

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 25 Nov 2013 05:16:40

Kris the Grey
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  05:57:00  Show Profile Send Kris the Grey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wooly,

You know, I always did think Halaster went down a little easily for someone with as storied a history and as powerful an intellect as he had (has?). While I'd chalked it up to part of the general 4E 'hit' put out on all people of power, I'd certainly like to believe it was something deeper, more meaningful, and more complex. So, after hearing your theory, let's just say I'm inclined to think you might just be on to something there. I'd be interested in hearing more.

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The Arcanamach
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  10:53:42  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with Kris 100%...both on the general 'hit' on beings of power and on the agreement with Wooly's speculations.

Wooly, can you provide a link concerning Ed's comments about Araumycos?

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  11:15:42  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love this idea, if i was ever going to include the spellplague that would be how i explain Halaster's death.

Of course that is not actually the reason he died. The real reason is poor design.

But your reason is much, much, much, much, much, much, much better

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Demzer
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  11:28:25  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, since we are throwing ideas around, i think if there is/was someone in the Realms that knows how deities work then it is Halaster (Larloch is busy with his own things, Elmister is some thousand years younger, ditto for the other Chosens). He was an Imaskari Artificer (and they knew a lot about deities and their powers), he probably had some kind of relation with Mystryl, Mystra 1.0, Shar and Mystra 2.0, he witnessed the rise and fall of 2 Mystr-- and a fair share of pantheon mergings and divine disappearances/deaths around him.

What if his move (blasting his own soul and sending it's pieces all over the place) was made to preserve all this knowledge of divine dealings and thus the (whole?) story of Toril's deity of magic? If he was aware of the coming Spellplague (something i intensely dislike, since everyone seems to have been aware of hit except for the deities that got hit by it ... but whatever) he may have feared a Faerun without a god/goddess of magic and since his long life and long memory was one of the best testaments/proofs around of the existence and importance of such a being throughout several thousands years of history, then he probably thought that risking death during the Spellplague would've meant losing a chance to give new life to Mystr-- in some form, so he scattered his own soul around to leave hints and bits about Mystr-- lying about with the hope that someone somewhen could pick them up and use them to rebuild the god/goddess of magic.

Ed told us that whales are treated with "kids gloves" by deities because their long lifespans and long memories enable them to "store" divine legitimacy for a long time. Halaster with his thousand years lifespan, his personal dealings with 3 goddesses of magic (4 with Shar and the Shadow Weave) and his extensive knowledge of divine dealings/mechanics/rules (from his Imaskari heritage and its long lifetime) is probably the closest human equivalent to the whales in this regard. So saving all this stored knowledge in some form away from the Spellplague destruction was probably more important for him than living a century or three as a disembodied, crazy and shattered spirit.
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Markustay
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  12:29:58  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cool thoughts.

For some strange reason, after reading through this, this random thought popped into my head: The Halaster Engine.

Don't know why - maybe thats something someone needs to build (or was it already built?)

I have no idea where that came from... I don't know where most of the stuff in my head comes from. lol

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Mapolq
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  13:59:55  Show Profile Send Mapolq a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have always thought the Halaster situation screamed "unfinished". Maybe it's wishful thinking, and maybe the designers added it as an afterthought, but the thing is it's not usual for someone to get destroyed and turn into soul shards or something like that. The "usual thing" would be, well, he'd either die and be gone, or he'd survive in a "lesser" but definitive manner (like Syluné for example). "Soul shards" feel really, really ambiguous.

So, yeah, I think Wooly's points make sense. And I wish that the designers offer us some explanation. And, designers, if you're not planning to, well, there's still time to change your minds... maybe you could even borrow some cool ideas somewhere *hint hint*.

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Edited by - Mapolq on 25 Nov 2013 14:01:06
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SirUrza
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  14:12:06  Show Profile  Send SirUrza an AOL message  Send SirUrza an ICQ Message Send SirUrza a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's an interesting theory, I'd certainly like to see a possible story where Halaster knew what was coming and did something to help prevent/patch it. However since Ao is laying the smackdown, I don't see that really being the case.

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sleyvas
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  14:51:52  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe Halaster had to unhinge his "link" to a given portion of Toril in order to link himself to some other area(s) of Toril. You know, like the dread rings.....

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

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Lothlos
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  15:56:26  Show Profile Send Lothlos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting Theory

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Down from the door where it began.
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Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
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Markustay
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  16:20:22  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So now I am picturing little bits of Halaster, 'charged' with negative energy, that are drawn to positive (Arcane) magical energy, and bond with it.

He turned himself into a massive, self-perpetuating collector virus.

When enough arcane energy is collected, the 'Halaster-bits' re-assemble and rebuild the weave out of the collected energy.

Thus, The Halaster Engine.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  16:38:16  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Or he fed himself into the ley lines of the world somehow.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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SirUrza
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  19:26:14  Show Profile  Send SirUrza an AOL message  Send SirUrza an ICQ Message Send SirUrza a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

When enough arcane energy is collected, the 'Halaster-bits' re-assemble and rebuild the weave out of the collected energy.


Sounds sticky.. wouldn't want to be Mystra.

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Fellfire
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  22:54:52  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Halaster Blackcloak, God of Magic. I like it.

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Edited by - Fellfire on 25 Nov 2013 23:02:05
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Ayrik
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  23:10:11  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Simpler explanations could exist.

Halastalich.
The demiplane domain of Undermountain.
A spell called “Timejump“ which moves the caster forward through the centuries.
The guy could simple value his privacy, no less than does Larloch.

[/Ayrik]
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 25 Nov 2013 :  23:31:50  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, there certainly could be simpler explanations, but as expressed earlier, it seems unlikely that someone could have penetrated Halaster's defenses *and* cause his backups to all fail, simultaneously. So given what we know of Halaster, I think it's quite likely that he pulled one of the biggest fast ones in the history of the Realms and that his "demise" was just one step of a larger plan.

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Kris the Grey
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Posted - 26 Nov 2013 :  02:50:57  Show Profile Send Kris the Grey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wooly,

In the odd coincidences file...

My present campaign (which I started back in 2010 when I'd assumed the 4E Realms were here to stay) deals with characters who started the campaign arc traveling back in time to 1369 DR and awaking in a glade near the hamlet of Rassalantar to find themselves 'marked' with a symbol (that remains invisible unless activated spontaneously in their defense, or by them working together now that they have advanced in power) resembling the holy symbols of Mystra (2.0), Selune, and Eilistraee combined.

Being from Earth (as all my PCs are - see my whole 'Play Yourself' obsession) in the year 2010, and being possessed of at least some knowledge of RSE style catastrophes to come, they have assumed they have been sent to avert them, despite the fact that they still do not know who sent them or what is powering their 'marks' (when 'asked', the three deities - through their representatives - have denied responsibility for, or knowledge of, such an act).

The part where this becomes interesting to your recent musings is this: the date of their arrival was Highharvestide 1369 - aka Halaster's Highharvestide - and also deposited near their arrival location (via one of the many malfunctioning gates out of Undermountain that day) was a group of goblins they tussled with as their first challenge as 0 level nobodies.

Coincidence...or something more? I'll let you decide (or perhaps even suggest, Lol).

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The Hooded One
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Posted - 26 Nov 2013 :  15:33:10  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, Wooly, I LOVE it when someone starts to think like Ed.
Just sayin . . .

love,
THO
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 26 Nov 2013 :  17:03:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, now that gives me hope that I'm on to something!

In the meantime, my Lady, can we discuss other things you love?

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Hawkins
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Posted - 26 Nov 2013 :  21:52:44  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like your theory, Wooly. It gives me hope that his end was not quite as ignominious as it seemed.

THO, you tease, m'lady. Here's to hoping that Wooly is actually on to something.

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Edited by - Hawkins on 26 Nov 2013 22:31:25
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
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Posted - 26 Nov 2013 :  23:59:10  Show Profile Send Drustan Dwnhaedan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really like Wooly's theory (because of how detailed and how much thought Wooly obviously put into writing it), but I'm also somewhat jealous. (I'm supposed to be re-creating my dad's old homebrew world, but all I'm really doing is stealing everybody else's ideas, primarily Wooly's, or Mr. Greenwood's.)



EDIT: Sorry, everyone. I didn't mean to start ranting.

Edited by - Drustan Dwnhaedan on 27 Nov 2013 00:16:50
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 27 Nov 2013 :  04:28:35  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan

I really like Wooly's theory (because of how detailed and how much thought Wooly obviously put into writing it), but I'm also somewhat jealous. (I'm supposed to be re-creating my dad's old homebrew world, but all I'm really doing is stealing everybody else's ideas, primarily Wooly's, or Mr. Greenwood's.)


To be quite honest, my creativity is sometimes best expressed by tweaking someone else's material... I think my musing above shows that sometimes it's not the ingredients that you use, it's how you put them together. I just put a different spin on a lot of possibly unconnected things.

I am quite appreciative of everyone that likes my musing and thinks it has merit, though.

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Arcanus
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Posted - 27 Nov 2013 :  22:06:34  Show Profile  Visit Arcanus's Homepage Send Arcanus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Surely it's a moot idea. Ao is just going to snap his fingers and put things right. Besides, I have issues with mortals doing such enormous tasks that even gods have failed at.
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
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Posted - 27 Nov 2013 :  22:47:05  Show Profile Send Drustan Dwnhaedan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan

I really like Wooly's theory (because of how detailed and how much thought Wooly obviously put into writing it), but I'm also somewhat jealous. (I'm supposed to be re-creating my dad's old homebrew world, but all I'm really doing is stealing everybody else's ideas, primarily Wooly's, or Mr. Greenwood's.)


To be quite honest, my creativity is sometimes best expressed by tweaking someone else's material... I think my musing above shows that sometimes it's not the ingredients that you use, it's how you put them together. I just put a different spin on a lot of possibly unconnected things.

I am quite appreciative of everyone that likes my musing and thinks it has merit, though.



You're welcome, Wooly! (It's always nice to be appreciated!) And thanks, because you're words helped put things back in perspective for me. (Seeing as how, even though I'm rebuilding my dad's world, it's going to inevitably be different from the world he created; it'll be tweaked, even if only slightly, to how I think things should be.)

Um... sorry for going off topic. -_-'
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 27 Nov 2013 :  22:53:27  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus

Surely it's a moot idea. Ao is just going to snap his fingers and put things right. Besides, I have issues with mortals doing such enormous tasks that even gods have failed at.



I don't think it's going to be quite that simple...

And besides, what Halaster is doing -- it could be at the urging of one or more deities, whether he knows it or not. It could, for example, be something that Mystryl charged him to do, should certain things come to pass. Given a scenario like that, he may not have even known what was coming, only that it was time to follow the instructions he'd been given so long ago.

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Kris the Grey
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Posted - 27 Nov 2013 :  22:59:27  Show Profile Send Kris the Grey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wooly,

I too like the idea of using the various incarnations of Mystryl/Mystra to accomplish (very) long ranging plans down the eons. Especially when one of them starts a task/plot that her follow on deity isn't even aware is underway anymore (owing to the loss of knowledge between incarnations). The continuity of the goddess of magic (who has a unique position lacking in much self interested motivation that tends to dominate other god's agendas) is particularly compatible with this sort of thing in my humble view.

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