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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 07:03:26
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The one...
the only...
Obould_Many-Arrows...
Now that is a villain that died to soon , as far as plot points go. That is a creature that should have stayed around as much as drizzits assassin buddy.
Lovely new dynamic, raised the status of a monster race into a wonderful roleplaying generator. Showed that if drow can be chaotic evil and have a kingdom, then so can orcs.
I just .... it makes me sad, that we don't get more of this, he is supposedly a demigod in service to grummish, after the cataclysm and such, I can see him being sent back down, into semi mortal status, and leading folks again , after all the chaos settles.
In-fact... I beg for it.
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 12:59:26
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| I would like to see Halaster come back. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 13:11:36
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| Khelben Arunsun was my favorite archmage. But I'm not a huge fan of this Elektra/ Jean Grey (ok, she is the Phoenix, after all) effect... |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 13:52:14
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Meh. I still run my campaigns in the 3.5 timeline.
I like having Vangy and the Steel princess around in Cormyr, and I liked the 3.5 nobility and underworld in waterdeep and I liked the Zhents around the dalelands, etc |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 14:22:05
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| There are a lot of characters I'd love to see still around, but Obould is not one of them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 15:11:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Meh. I still run my campaigns in the 3.5 timeline
I like having Vangy and the Steel princess around in Cormyr, and I liked the 3.5 nobility and underworld in waterdeep and I liked the Zhents around the dalelands, etc
Preach on. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 18:40:39
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Haven't there been a succession of Oboulds since The Thousand Orcs/Orc King books? His sons as kings? Probably even blessed by Gruumsh to boot.
I want Alias and her gang back. Or Artus Cimber. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 19:22:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Haven't there been a succession of Oboulds since The Thousand Orcs/Orc King books? His sons as kings? Probably even blessed by Gruumsh to boot.
There have been, but to say it's Obould XI or whatever they're up to and make him as powerful, skilled, and smart as the original just feels... cheap.
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
I want Alias and her gang back. Or Artus Cimber.
Oh Alias, yes that'd be nice.
Arilyn and Danilo too! |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 19:37:00
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Haven't there been a succession of Oboulds since The Thousand Orcs/Orc King books? His sons as kings? Probably even blessed by Gruumsh to boot.
There have been, but to say it's Obould XI or whatever they're up to and make him as powerful, skilled, and smart as the original just feels... cheap.
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
I want Alias and her gang back. Or Artus Cimber.
Oh Alias, yes that'd be nice.
Arilyn and Danilo too!
ALIAS
Heck yes. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 20:28:01
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I want everyone back...
there's an easy fix for that.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 20:43:10
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| The evil Fey'ri, most importantly the Dlardrageth family. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 20:50:58
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Haven't there been a succession of Oboulds since The Thousand Orcs/Orc King books? His sons as kings? Probably even blessed by Gruumsh to boot.
There have been, but to say it's Obould XI or whatever they're up to and make him as powerful, skilled, and smart as the original just feels... cheap.
IMHO just pulling one deus ex machina after another to bring back NPC after NPC feels much cheaper
One NPC somehow catapulted over a century in the future? Strane things happen in the Realms.
Two NPCs somehow catapulated over a century into the future? Hm, a strange coincidence of strange things.
Three or more NPCs ...?    |
Edited by - Mirtek on 12 Nov 2013 20:53:14 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 21:15:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
The evil Fey'ri, most importantly the Dlardrageth family.
Considering their elven heritage, there's not even a need to explain their survival -- they can easily live thru a century or two. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 22:06:00
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| Khelben Arunson the elder |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 22:42:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
The evil Fey'ri, most importantly the Dlardrageth family.
Considering their elven heritage, there's not even a need to explain their survival -- they can easily live thru a century or two.
Considering their fiendish heritage, they can easily live even longer.
Alias is a construct, technically described as an Automaton back in 2E lore, before 3E lore formalized some rules for the category. True, she was bestowed part of a living (saurial) soul, so perhaps she might age and die (at least in a manner similar to saurials), but she was also fashioned from a lich‘s magic, a bit of Moander‘s/Finder‘s divine energy, and a powerful artifact. I would argue that she should be ageless (as a human “adult“) and thus still in the Realms - unless she met a violent or accidental death. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 23:38:23
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Yeah, the issue of whether or not Alias and her sisters actually age is a good one... Given that Finder was involved in her construction and wanted to preserve his music forever, it is entirely possible that the Alias vessels are effectively immortal.
The flip side is that we know they are capable of bearing children who appear to age normally, so maybe only Flattery was immortal, and Alias and her sisters aren't... I'd really love to get Jeff Grubb to address that one.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 02:40:01
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I won't pick and choose who I'd like back.
I'd simply say that so long as the lore and backstory supporting the return of a particular character was sound, then I'd welcome any and all of the lost characters to back into the land of the living. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 06:39:34
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Wasn't Giogioni's wife (Cat?) a clone?
If yes, I think it would be interesting to get a Jeff Grubb take on the long-lived, undying matron of the Wyvernspurs. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 10:00:55
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| As I said, I don't like the idea of mass resurrection, or of a great time travelling plague. There are a lot of characters I'd like to see again, like Khelben, Elaith, Myrin Silverspear, and many others, but I'd rather like that 5e would have books on all eras, just like Star Wars, as it was discussed some time ago. So, new stories with Khelben would be from his - vast and rich - past, and new Elaith stories could be in the time between the last novel in which he appeared and his yet not published (as far as I know) demise, for example. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 11:16:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Wasn't Giogioni's wife (Cat?) a clone?
If yes, I think it would be interesting to get a Jeff Grubb take on the long-lived, undying matron of the Wyvernspurs.
The group built Alias together, and Phalse siphoned off what they were doing to build another dozen, including Cat, Zhara, Jade More, and my non-canon Sapphire.
They weren't exact clones; there were some minor physical differences. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 13 Nov 2013 11:17:50 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 13:28:39
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Yeah, I'd love to see Cat as the 'wise old matron' of clan Wyvernspur... with lots of little 'wyvernspurs' with an odd bloodline ability. 
And somewhere in a novel about them, a cameo by her sister Alias. Don't even name her... just refer to her as 'my sister'. Yeah... that'd be AWESOME.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 13:33:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
One NPC somehow catapulted over a century in the future? Strane things happen in the Realms.
Two NPCs somehow catapulated over a century into the future? Hm, a strange coincidence of strange things.
Three or more NPCs ...?
While I completely agree with your sentiment (I found Mirt's return extremely 'jarring'), it wouldn't be so bad if they connected at least some of them together, in one event. Having each with his/her own deus ex machina would be awful, but lets say a bunch of them were somehow 'frozen' (or turned into statues, etc), and then freed, that would be okay, I guess. Not great, but a hell of a lot better then a host of separate 'coincidences'.
Truly hate the return of the Companions of the Hall. I will never read another RAS novel again (and somewhere I think I just heard him say "thank god!") 
Loved the man's writing, but I think that well has run a bit dry of late. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Nov 2013 16:17:29 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 16:13:49
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Flesh to Stone and then a century later Stone to Flesh would have been a good way to keep some characters alive past the time jump. Or you could just have them sleep for 20 years (The Last Threshold) or get locked in a magic hand mirror (or however Mirt survived) and spring out  .
I hear you Markustay, but I give Bob slack on The Companions, because it was well written (especially the Regis parts) and I don't think he had finished telling the tale of Regis and Catti-Brie when the Spellplague/Time-jump was forced on him.
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Edited by - Seravin on 13 Nov 2013 16:14:16 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 16:21:08
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| He definitely wasn't finished and putting them in that pocket realm was just his way of buying time and cheating death IMHO. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 16:26:24
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IIRC, both Bob and Ed were initially against the timejump (maybe because they still had stories to tell... or maybe just because they are both very smart men).
Regardless (because I don't want to go down that road yet-again), I do have hope for the 5 Realms, despite how I may come off. The reason for this is that I am hoping they allow authors to write stories 'set in the past'. Thus far, I have not seen that, AT ALL, and if all these authors are porting' their favs into the 4e+ realms... well... thats just a VERY bad sign.
I have no intention of reading anything set post 1400 DR, so if thats their plan, they can leave me out. That is NOT "support for all eras", that is just some corporate hyperbole BS. I want to read about my favorite characters when they were alive, not in some sort of 'after death' resurrection scenario, set in a world I neither recognize nor care for. That might be their idea of a compromise, but for me, thats no compromise as at all - its just putting some tasty sauce over a smelly fish.
I WILL continue to buy (good) gaming material, but I need to see true 'support for all eras' in the novel line if they want me back on that end of things. Then again, after my recent trip to the bookstore, even if I wanted to, I think that door has closed. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Nov 2013 16:26:58 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 16:34:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yeah, I'd love to see Cat as the 'wise old matron' of clan Wyvernspur... with lots of little 'wyvernspurs' with an odd bloodline ability.
And somewhere in a novel about them, a cameo by her sister Alias. Don't even name her... just refer to her as 'my sister'. Yeah... that'd be AWESOME.
Zhara did mention to Alias that she (Zhara) had met several of the others. I think it might also be interesting to meet some of the others -- we only had names for four of them, and one of those was disintegrated. That's part of why I was happy to appropriate one of them for my Lords of Waterdeep project -- Azure Bonds said one was dressed as a Waterdhavian courtesan, and in Song of the Saurials, Zhara mentioned that one was a "lady of some power in Waterdeep" (quoting from memory). I named that one Sapphire and connected her to my psionicist Lord, Sierkan Dahl.
But getting closer to the original topic... If the Alias vessels are indeed immortal, then we still could meet 8 of them as "new" characters. It's also possible that in the century since then, someone else has figured out how to do the same thing and made new ones. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 16:37:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
IIRC, both Bob and Ed were initially against the timejump (maybe because they still had stories to tell... or maybe just because they are both very smart men).
Regardless (because I don't want to go down that road yet-again), I do have hope for the 5 Realms, despite how I may come off. The reason for this is that I am hoping they allow authors to write stories 'set in the past'. Thus far, I have not seen that, AT ALL, and if all these authors are porting' their favs into the 4e+ realms... well... thats just a VERY bad sign.
I have no intention of reading anything set post 1400 DR, so if thats their plan, they can leave me out. That is NOT "support for all eras", that is just some corporate hyperbole BS. I want to read about my favorite characters when they were alive, not in some sort of 'after death' resurrection scenario, set in a world I neither recognize nor care for. That might be their idea of a compromise, but for me, thats no compromise as at all - its just putting some tasty sauce over a smelly fish.
I WILL continue to buy (good) gaming material, but I need to see true 'support for all eras' in the novel line if they want me back on that end of things. Then again, after my recent trip to the bookstore, even if I wanted to, I think that door has closed.
As I've said more than once, all of the most popular characters in the Realms were at one time new characters. I, for one, am not willing to rule out the possibility of new and intriguing characters, just because the time line has advanced. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 17:31:14
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Suppose we had an author (in some other setting) who wrote a few novels about his characters, and then just stopped, with zero closure, and started writing about completely different characters. That wouldn't upset you?
Sure, we can get new characters, but I still want to know what happened to all the old ones. Thats like Marvel or DC creating a whole new group of heroes and just ignoring everything they've done before. That would fail big-time, I think. You can introduce new characters (and stories), but you still have to link them to the past, IMO. This can be done well (I am thinking about the ever-changing cast of Walking Dead right now), or it can be done very poorly (and here I am picturing the absolutely abysmal Law of Nines by Terry Goodkind). One of the very few IPs I've seen where this doesn't even become an issue is in the Mithgar novels - McKiernan has somehow made ALL of his main characters immortal, in one fashion or another, and it simply works for him (I guess it all depends on the setting). For instance, wizards seem to go through some sort of Doctor Who-ish rejuvenation process every couple of centuries.
Anyhow, I am not against new stories set in a new time period, I just want to see some of The Realms I fell in love with again, not some other time period with 'borrowed' characters. That just cheapens all of it, IMHO. To me, thats like just taking the name of an old fav and pasting it onto someone new. For me, the connection to the old character is just broken.
And not just the 1e/2e/3e era either - we have been clamoring for historic novels for years - The Realms has a very rich history - they need to mine the hell out of it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Nov 2013 17:32:37 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 19:04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Suppose we had an author (in some other setting) who wrote a few novels about his characters, and then just stopped, with zero closure, and started writing about completely different characters. That wouldn't upset you?
Yes, it would upset me. And yes, I do want to know more about my fave characters from prior editions.
But I'm not going to keep complaining about that, and I'm certainly not going to let that keep me from exploring new characters. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 23:11:49
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Bringing back Khelben seems a dangerous precedent. Sure, he was a Chosen quasi-divine sort, which could easily explain a miraculous resurrection. But, as I understand it, Mystra‘s Magisters and Chosen could only retire through permanent death, their soul essence stuff irrevocably merged into Mystra and her Weave ... bringing back a Chosen just opens the door for bookloads of cheap deaths and even cheaper lack of final deaths, it would make the legendary battles and sacrifices of these characters largely meaningless routine.
Though there does seem to be some merit in the notion of a Waterdhavian Cult of Khelben, the sincere faith of which might manifest a sort of half-amnesiac composite avatar of Khelben in times of great need. Better yet, other deities (oh, Cyric or Mask or Bane?) Might impersonate such a quasi-Khelben to further their own objectives.
I might be mistaken, but doesn‘t spellfire also grant exceptional longevity, agelessness, or effective immortality? If so, then people like Shandril might also still be around, and presumably much grown in power after mastering spellfire for a century. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Someone... who should come back in 5e....
