Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Wizards vs Sorcerers
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3

The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1582 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  00:14:41  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok so this debate has me wondering how to make the sorcerer more viable? Has anyone created a 'new' sorcerer class? I mean, rather than come up with a good build within the rules, has anyone actually retooled the class to make it stronger so as to compete with the wizard class?

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  04:21:03  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Ok so this debate has me wondering how to make the sorcerer more viable? Has anyone created a 'new' sorcerer class? I mean, rather than come up with a good build within the rules, has anyone actually retooled the class to make it stronger so as to compete with the wizard class?



There's nothing you need to do to make it more viable. If you want more spells, play a wizard -- just be aware you have to plan what you're going to do at the start of each day, and that you could make one mistake and render yourself useless.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3391 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  04:57:18  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Ok so this debate has me wondering how to make the sorcerer more viable? Has anyone created a 'new' sorcerer class? I mean, rather than come up with a good build within the rules, has anyone actually retooled the class to make it stronger so as to compete with the wizard class?



Sure, use the Pathfinder version which has LOTS more options as one goes through character levels. And since PF is 3.75Ed. It's almost a perfect transition (plus it's content is free online). Barring PF material, I allowed Eschew Materials as a 1st level bonus feat and then they gained either a Bloodline Feat (complete arcane, complete mage, dragon magic supplements) or a metamagic feat at the same progression as the Wizard. Seemed to balance out the sorcerer getting fewer spells and being a level behind in the casting progression.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
Go to Top of Page

Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1074 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  08:22:51  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If one would allow 3rd party material, there is a class in quintessential sorcerer, that is called Primordial Sorcerer. Its kind of insane. Also a couple of feats are worth mentioning.

Absorb Spell

Meta-magic Craddle

Again makes the sorcerer a lot more crazy than it is by core!
Go to Top of Page

_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe

Germany
542 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  11:24:37  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A point where the wizard has a great advantage over a sorcerer is skillpoints though, due to his high int he gets a lot of them, while the sorcerer only gets few.

Which of the two classes is better for someone also depends on the playstile I guess, because sometimes when I read such discussion threads I get the impression many people play in way where the party is allways rested before the next encounter which gives the wizard a huge advantage because he can set his spells up accordingly.
If you play more in way where multiple encounters can happen before the party gets any chance to rest the in combat flexibility of the sorcerer gets far more valuable.


PS: I never played a Pen&Paper session myself so this are only some assumptions by an "outsider"
Go to Top of Page

Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1074 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  11:33:16  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_


PS: I never played a Pen&Paper session myself so this are only some assumptions by an "outsider"



Dude, you have got to get yourself at a table... its huge fun!
Go to Top of Page

_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe

Germany
542 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  12:45:30  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Unfortunatly its not very common here and I guess I would be a though player, expecting the DM to know the Realms in and out.
Go to Top of Page

Saxmilian
Learned Scribe

USA
157 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  13:16:58  Show Profile  Visit Saxmilian's Homepage Send Saxmilian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I keep hearing people say that the IZARD will do research into the Sorcerer's abilities and the sorcerer will instantly die, this keeps assuming that the wizard has every spell in the game. I love my wizard, I really do, but he dosent have access to EVERY spell. Indeed, in second-ed, a few failed rolls and there were spells he couldn't learn.
3.5 I think it still boils down to who goes first in battle. Wizards can be more powerful in their usefulness. A few open slots and they can fill whatever magic-roll is needed (once again assuming they have access to lots of spellbooks). Sorcerers in battle win hands down. I mean who even plays a sorcerer and dosent plan to survive? Always Mage Armor, Shield, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Magic Missile and at those truly deadly levels Disintegrate, Iron Body and Time Stop. Then again, every wizard takes the SAME combat spells.
Sadly, it boils down to who casts first, who fails a save, thugh, in battle those extra spells and dispel magic are gonna let the sorcerer win out, every time.
Go to Top of Page

Saxmilian
Learned Scribe

USA
157 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  13:20:39  Show Profile  Visit Saxmilian's Homepage Send Saxmilian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, since I just realized I forgot to mention, overall, as the topic suggested, powerful, I cant deny that if the Wizard knows a butt-load of spells, then my wizard carries a butt-load of scrolls (at least 1 for EVERY spell they know)the right bag of holding, bandolier or scroll case, quick-draw and game over, wizard rocks.
Go to Top of Page

KacyCrawford
Seeker

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  14:26:23  Show Profile Send KacyCrawford a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Wizard is unquestionably the more powerful of the two (unless you are very skilled at using some very specific Sorcerer tricks, like Arcane Fusion and Kobold Greater Rite of Passage). That said, I think Sorcerer is a lot more fun to play in general, and therefore consider it a "better" class.
Go to Top of Page

Entromancer
Senior Scribe

USA
388 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  17:36:50  Show Profile Send Entromancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All a sorcerer need do is fashion an antimagic orb (like the one Morik used against Rai'gy Bondalek)into a bullet that, upon penetrating the wizard, releases a neurotoxin containing the orb's antimagic properties. Effectively, this disrupts the neurons' signaling and considerably slows down the wizard's ability to cast spells.

"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul

"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul
Go to Top of Page

The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1582 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  19:58:11  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are there any insane wizard builds similar to the Mailman?

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
Go to Top of Page

Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3391 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2013 :  21:06:56  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Are there any insane wizard builds similar to the Mailman?



I'm not really sure the Wizard (or really, any Tier 1 full-spellcaster for that matter) needs ridiculous builds to be crazy at high levels.

But I've always favored Wizard 5/ War Weaver (Hereos of Battle) 5/ Wizard 10 or PrC____ 10) a pretty awesome combination. Yes, lets turn evryone into hastened, invisible, bull's strength polymorphed Dragon on turn 1.

Another overpowered (dare I say "broken") combination is that the Wizard or Sorcerer can craft Rune-Bombs. If your not sure what a Rune Bomb is then I'll explain it.

A Rune Bomb is someone who casts Explosive Runes on a piece of paper multiple times. Since the RAW is that there is no limit to how many times the explosive runes can be applied, it's believed that the spells can be added and thus stack with one another. You then use another spell as the trigger and *boom*, 5d6 force damage per casting with no saving throw for any target within the immediate vacinity. With the bomb on hand, you can use a simple cantrip called "Launch Object" to throw the "bomb" at an opponent's feet (AC 10) and then detonate it with a quickened Amanuensis (cantrip, 4th level spell). These detonate ALL the runes since there is no rule stating that each explosive rune needs more than one trigger.

It's cheesy but works the first time until the DM just says "no", lol.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."

Edited by - Diffan on 01 Oct 2013 21:11:25
Go to Top of Page

GRYPHON
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2013 :  15:46:47  Show Profile  Visit GRYPHON's Homepage Send GRYPHON a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wizards...
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6239 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2013 :  23:11:18  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Wooly Hamster


There's nothing you need to do to make [wizards] more viable. If you want more spells, play a wizard -- just be aware you have to plan what you're going to do at the start of each day, and that you could make one mistake and render yourself useless.
Partially true.

A low-level wizard usually has a limited spell selection and can easily prepare poorly. But this limit also applies to his sorcerer counterpart. Not that matters all that much when you can only cast a few spells per day anyhow; both classes can benefit from a crossbow more than a spell library at the lowest levels.

But at middling and high levels, a wizard would have to make not just one bad choice but a large number of bad choices to find himself utterly unprepared for whatever the day may bring. A high level wizard, certainly an epic level wizard, would likely be fully prepared against a large array of possible threats and challenges. While I‘m firmly opposed to allowing PC (and NPC) wizards have access to every spell published in the sourcebooks, I‘m also often dismayed by how (player) wizards tend to lazily overlook the immense value and versatility of creating/researching their own (or even another wizard‘s) spells.

My opinion is that any wizard worth his levels will ensure that he is equipped with spells sufficient for any likely contingency, and will have addressed any glaring weaknesses in his spell arsenal by the time he achieves a decent level. Even if only half of his spells should happen to prove useful in an encounter vs some randome sorceror, he would still manage to have enough magical advantage to prevail.

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6239 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2013 :  23:32:24  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I append another observation to my above post:

Specialist wizards have an overwhelming advantage over sorcerers at low experience levels. They‘re superbly good at what they do and almost guaranteed to have access to a handful of spells within their specialization which are immediately useful. Their inability to access forbidden schools of magic isn‘t much bother when most of their spellbook pages are blank anyhow. Sorcerors do not have access to such advantages.

Incidentally, I‘ve played in plenty of short-term or one-shot games ... a specialist is the way to go when you want more good spells now and don‘t care much about long-term potential. For the record, rules exist which allow specialists to generalize later if they should choose.

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2013 :  04:56:53  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A wizard who is prepared for every possible contingency is going to have a wide variety of spells memorized -- and most of them will only be useful in particular contingencies. What does he do when he has cast all the relevant spells for a particular contingency, and none of his remaining ones are relevant?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe

Malaysia
552 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2013 :  13:44:53  Show Profile Send Xar Zarath a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The wizard cracks out the wands, scrolls, rings and amulets...?

Everything ends where it begins. Period.



Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2013 :  14:10:38  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath

The wizard cracks out the wands, scrolls, rings and amulets...?



Which again assumes he has them, and that they are right for the situation.

Here's what it comes down to: wizards are best strategically, sorcerers are best tactically. A properly-prepared wizard will outperform a sorcerer in the same situation, but if the wizard is not prepared, the sorcerer will do better. It's all situational, and which is better depends entirely on whether or not the wizard was able to prepare all the right spells.

That's why I like sorcerers. A sorcerer never has to get up in the morning and ponder whether to prepare another fireball, or dispel magic, or fly.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Neo2151
Learned Scribe

USA
109 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2013 :  16:00:53  Show Profile  Send Neo2151 an AOL message Send Neo2151 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll answer this as if the question assumes Pathfinder rules, because who straight-leveled in 3.5 anyway?

So a Sorcerer with the Arcane bloodline and enough gold to create a Staff of Wish is the most powerful. But who's gonna allow that, right?

Really though, if we're talking about a duel, it all comes down to who wins initiative. The first spell to land is going to be the deciding factor, and you can argue 'til you're blue in the face about poorly prepared spells vs spells knows, etc, and this will still be true.

If we're not talking about a duel, but just class ability overall: The Wizard is more powerful, but the Sorcerer has the more enjoyable playstyle at the tabletop, IMO.

•First- The idea that a Wizard will have too much utility prepared to be offensive is kinda bunk. The class gets Scribe Scroll for free, and can potentially "know" as many spells as the DM allows. So all your utility spells can be safely tucked away in your scroll case while your prepared spells are more typical daily choices.
The Sorcerer, on the other hand, does not have this option for utility spells and any utility spells they want are going to eat away at the rather small list of Spells Known that they have to deal with, or they must find someone selling scrolls of the specific spells they want. Otherwise, they'll just have to live without.
And because Wizards can know any spell they can afford to scribe into their book, they are much more likely to take item creation feats, which means they are more likely to have the right wand/staff/etc for the job.

•Second- Unless we're discussing two casters who have both achieved 9th level power, the Wizard has a HUGE advantage here. A 5th level Wizard has access to 3rd level spells. A 5th level Sorcerer doesn't yet. They're a level behind for every spell level, all the way up to 18th level when they finally learn 9th level casting.

•Third- If we're talking about 3.X D&D, then Wizards have School Specialization giving them extra options, while Sorcerers have nothing of the sort.
If we're talking Pathfinder, Sorcerers actually pull ahead here as Bloodlines are typically better than Specializations, though not by a lot.

•Finally- Intelligence is a much more useful stat than Charisma, especially when you only have "2+Int" for school skills. The Wizard is way more likely to know information about a variety of things than the Sorcerer, and we all know "knowledge is power." (Elminster has a reputation for being one of the most powerful people in the Realms because of what he knows rather than what he can cast.)

"Come looking for me, and I will blast you to dust, and then lay waste to all your descendants, ancestors, and the realm you came from, every last tree and stone of it. Why? Well, it's what I usually do."

-Baerendra Riverhand on The Story of Spellfire

Edited by - Neo2151 on 05 Oct 2013 16:04:48
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2013 :  16:43:55  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151

I'll answer this as if the question assumes Pathfinder rules, because who straight-leveled in 3.5 anyway?

So a Sorcerer with the Arcane bloodline and enough gold to create a Staff of Wish is the most powerful. But who's gonna allow that, right?

Really though, if we're talking about a duel, it all comes down to who wins initiative. The first spell to land is going to be the deciding factor, and you can argue 'til you're blue in the face about poorly prepared spells vs spells knows, etc, and this will still be true.

If we're not talking about a duel, but just class ability overall: The Wizard is more powerful, but the Sorcerer has the more enjoyable playstyle at the tabletop, IMO.

•First- The idea that a Wizard will have too much utility prepared to be offensive is kinda bunk. The class gets Scribe Scroll for free, and can potentially "know" as many spells as the DM allows. So all your utility spells can be safely tucked away in your scroll case while your prepared spells are more typical daily choices.
The Sorcerer, on the other hand, does not have this option for utility spells and any utility spells they want are going to eat away at the rather small list of Spells Known that they have to deal with, or they must find someone selling scrolls of the specific spells they want. Otherwise, they'll just have to live without.
And because Wizards can know any spell they can afford to scribe into their book, they are much more likely to take item creation feats, which means they are more likely to have the right wand/staff/etc for the job.


Where does it say sorcerers can't prepare scrolls?

The idea of a wizard not prepared for combat is not bunk. Do you really think that a wizard expecting a quiet day of reading is going to be loading up on fireballs? Do you really think a wizard who is in a large city to relax, buy some supplies, and take in a couple of shows is still going to make sure he's got every single scroll he can carry on him when he steps out to go to the tavern, and that he'll make a point of preparing meteor swarm in case he has an argument with someone at the bar? Heck, is your wizard, who is preparing to study all the runes and old paraphernalia he and his companions just found in a tower he now knows to be empty, still going to have fireballs ready instead of dispel magic?

Look at it this way: is your fighter going to prepare for a day at the beach by strapping on his heaviest plate armor and grabbing a few swords and polearms? Is your cleric going to prepare for a date by grabbing his +8 mace of holy smashing?

No. People relax. People let down their guard when they have no reason to expect an attack. People expecting to do research, or to relax, or to spend their time creating magical items do not load up on nothing but offensive spells.

No one, not even an adventurer, is prepped for combat 24/7. And if your wizard only prepares battle magic and nothing else, then his skills are being poorly used.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13801 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2013 :  16:56:02  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To back up Wooly's post, there was a WARwizard of Cormyr in the Cormyr series (co-written by Ed Greenwood, in fact) who got hit in the head with a rock by a child... and then got beat-up by a crowd of angry bystanders.

Guess he wasn't prepared that day....

Only guys like Elminster, Szass Tam, The Blackstaff, Larloch, etc, are ready for a fight, 24/7.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Go to Top of Page

Neo2151
Learned Scribe

USA
109 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2013 :  17:15:21  Show Profile  Send Neo2151 an AOL message Send Neo2151 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sure a Sorcerer can take Scribe Scroll and make his own scrolls. But most of the time it ends up being a waste of a feat, since he can only scribe what he knows, and he can cast everything he knows as long as he has spell slots. (For what it's worth, I've never seen a Spont. caster take the feat. Ever.)

And I maintain it is bunk. No Wizard worth their salt is going to "load up" on offensive spells, but they're not going to go out into the dangerous D&D world (city or not) without some sort of offense, defense, and/or escape magic readily available.
The "day at the beach" is a straw-man argument. No player is ever going to let their guard down unless they want their DM to kill them. So "people" might get to relax, but "players" hardly ever do. And even when my fighter goes to the beach, he doesn't go without at least one weapon. Again - dangerous D&D world is dangerous.


As for that War Wizard... Novels and gameplay mechanics are two entirely different beasts. According to Ed, any mage will lose a fight against a well-thrown rock.

Edit- Larloch, since you mention him Markustay, is actually a great example of what I'm talking about. This guy is someone that no one messes with, has tons of Netherese liches under his control to deal with any potential situation, and rarely leaves home because he's too busy tinkering with personal projects to mess with the outside world. And yet, I bet if you had PCs face him, he'd be "prepared" for them.

"Come looking for me, and I will blast you to dust, and then lay waste to all your descendants, ancestors, and the realm you came from, every last tree and stone of it. Why? Well, it's what I usually do."

-Baerendra Riverhand on The Story of Spellfire

Edited by - Neo2151 on 05 Oct 2013 17:22:09
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2013 :  17:41:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151

Sure a Sorcerer can take Scribe Scroll and make his own scrolls. But most of the time it ends up being a waste of a feat, since he can only scribe what he knows, and he can cast everything he knows as long as he has spell slots. (For what it's worth, I've never seen a Spont. caster take the feat. Ever.)


So for a sorcerer it's a waste of a feat to be able to cast more spells than he has available, but for wizards it is expected that they'll be able to cast more spells than are available? Talk about skewing the scenario to achieve a desired result...

quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151

And I maintain it is bunk. No Wizard worth their salt is going to "load up" on offensive spells, but they're not going to go out into the dangerous D&D world (city or not) without some sort of offense, defense, and/or escape magic readily available.


I maintain it is bunk to assume that one can never, ever let their guard down. I maintain it is bunk to assume anyone combat-capable is going to be combat-ready 24/7. I maintain it is bunk to ignore human nature and a desire to relax and unwind. I maintain it is bunk to assume that there is never, ever a reason to not expect to be attacked.

I further maintain it is bunk to assume that wizards do nothing but blast anything and everything, all day long. Need a door opened? Fireball! Can't get up to that ledge? Screw it, bring down the mountain and walk right in! Need to have someone do something for you? They'll be plenty willing after a lightning bolt or two!

quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151


The "day at the beach" is a straw-man argument. No player is ever going to let their guard down unless they want their DM to kill them. So "people" might get to relax, but "players" hardly ever do. And even when my fighter goes to the beach, he doesn't go without at least one weapon. Again - dangerous D&D world is dangerous.


Yeah, because no player ever does something like go to a tavern for a drink, or tries to charm the local nobleman's daughter into the sack... No player ever just needs supplies, or to read the new spellbook he just found, or wants to use his crafting ability, or needs the local sage to help him interpret a mysterious coded document, or needs to consult with a temple to find out about something that happened in the area 400 years ago...

The strawman argument is that all DMs, everywhere, want nothing more than to kill their players, and will not let logic or player desires get in the way of what they want.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Neo2151
Learned Scribe

USA
109 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2013 :  18:07:40  Show Profile  Send Neo2151 an AOL message Send Neo2151 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So for a sorcerer it's a waste of a feat to be able to cast more spells than he has available, but for wizards it is expected that they'll be able to cast more spells than are available? Talk about skewing the scenario to achieve a desired result...

The Wizard doesn't have to decide if taking the Scribe Scroll feat is worth it or not - they get it for free at first level. Of course it's skewed in the Wizard's favor, for that reason alone.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I further maintain it is bunk to assume that wizards do nothing but blast anything and everything, all day long. Need a door opened? Fireball! Can't get up to that ledge? Screw it, bring down the mountain and walk right in! Need to have someone do something for you? They'll be plenty willing after a lightning bolt or two!

I have never made this argument, and I haven't seen it in this entire thread. Is your past personal gaming experience catching up with you here? Do you need a moment to breathe?

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yeah, because no player ever does something like go to a tavern for a drink, or tries to charm the local nobleman's daughter into the sack... No player ever just needs supplies, or to read the new spellbook he just found, or wants to use his crafting ability, or needs the local sage to help him interpret a mysterious coded document, or needs to consult with a temple to find out about something that happened in the area 400 years ago...

The strawman argument is that all DMs, everywhere, want nothing more than to kill their players, and will not let logic or player desires get in the way of what they want.


Then would you do me a quick favor and describe the prepared spell list of an "off-duty" Wizard? Is he/she just filling up all their daily slots with nothing but Tongues and Locate Object over and over again? I find that idea vastly more ridiculous than the idea that a mage will have at least a couple of spells suited to danger prepared.

"Come looking for me, and I will blast you to dust, and then lay waste to all your descendants, ancestors, and the realm you came from, every last tree and stone of it. Why? Well, it's what I usually do."

-Baerendra Riverhand on The Story of Spellfire
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000