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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 02:07:17
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FYI - an excerpt from Dragon 427
Going Dark
By Chris Perkins
In years past, when we found ourselves at the lonely crossroads between game editions, the magazines simply went from one edition to the next with nary a breath in between. This time is different. As we turn our attention to the next D&D® rules set, we’re putting Dragon® and Dungeon® on hiatus.
The D&D magazines are going dark beginning in January. In other words, the December issues (#221 of Dungeon and #430 of Dragon) will be the last issues you see for a while. The magazines will continue on their present trajectories for the next few months, during which time we will answer questions such as the following: when will Dragon and Dungeon return, what form(s) will the magazines take, how much D&D content will the magazines publish, and how does one submit pitches for articles?
As it stands, we have all the 4th Edition content we need to fill the remaining issues between now and the end of the year, and we are not ready to solicit content for D&D Next. Consequently, we are not accepting articles or adventure pitches this fall, and the submission window (which normally opens on October 1st and closes on November 30th) will remain closed. Anyone who sends a pitch to submissions@wizards.com will receive an automated “Thanks, but no thanks” response, along with a short explanation of why we’re not accepting content at this time.
Every new edition is a chance for the magazines to evolve, and evolve they will. If you are interested in contributing to the D&D tabletop roleplaying game in the future, my best advice (for the time being) is to start up a regular D&D Next game and familiarize yourself with the new rules. Hone your writing skills as best you can. Then wait to see what happens next.
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Edited by - ksu_bond on 17 Sep 2013 02:09:27
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 02:10:35
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| ...so for current DDI members I haven't seen what will be done, if anything, to compensate for the lack of return on our investment...if you're not a DDI member but were thinking about joining, perhaps waiting would be your better option until more information is available... |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 02:32:10
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As my WotC tag says "Plans are subject to change." *shrugs*Do they still offer all the complied and, more recent uncompiled, mags to new members?
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 02:37:56
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| They do...but that doesn't require buying a year long membership to download...so at the moment for non-DDI members it would be best to join for a month (or whatever the short membership is) and just download all the content before the membership expires...meanwhile those who have already paid for a year membership are now getting even less for their money with no word as to if and how WotC plans to make things "right"... |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 02:55:04
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| interesting... wonder if they've realized they're just putting out way too much for anyone, even themselves, to keep track of and they're going to slow down. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 03:46:26
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This brings back memories... of me being caught without a publisher for my Realms article when the printed DRAGON and DUNGEON Magazines suddenly folded up.
Of course, I hadn't submitted anything this time, but I feel for the folk who might have already done so. 
...
Regardless, I'm curious to see what the future of these publications can, and will be, once D&D Next hits the shelves. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 04:16:02
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I'm tweaked off. I finally decided to see what DDI content was out there, and they decide to pull the only thing that made it even marginally worthwhile.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Renin
Learned Scribe
USA
290 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 04:18:29
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| I would have been happy to subscribe to DDI if not for the fact I couldn't choose to just have Dragon, or just Dungeon, or for the fact I couldn't buy individual issues-and I had to have all that 4e content as well. |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 04:43:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm tweaked off. I finally decided to see what DDI content was out there, and they decide to pull the only thing that made it even marginally worthwhile.
Ditto...I just paid for a year subscription a month ago...needless to say I'm a bit vexed.. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 05:06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Renin
I would have been happy to subscribe to DDI if not for the fact I couldn't choose to just have Dragon, or just Dungeon, or for the fact I couldn't buy individual issues-and I had to have all that 4e content as well.
I was avoiding the DDI for that particular reason, for a long time. I only decided to get in to see everything coming for 5E -- specifically, for the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 06:59:21
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quote:
Originally posted by ksu_bond
FYI - an excerpt from Dragon 427
Thanks for the heads up.
The only reason I subscribe is for the Realms content (Eye on the Realms, Backdrop articles, etc.).
I'm not sure when my subscription is set to re-up for another year, but if it's on or before the end of the year, looks like I'll have to cancel it until Realms content starts getting published again.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect consistency in terms of regular publication of content. Therefore it's disappointing to see an interruption in service.
I believe content should evolve concurrently within the framework of whatever format is currently being used, so there's no interruption in service.
Unless WotC is going to use their downtime to sample the user base to see what they want in terms of Dragon/Dungeon content, I can't see a good reason for them to interrupt service.
Regardless, users whose year-long subscriptions run into or over the blackout period should have their subscriptions extended for a time equal to that period after the blackout ends. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 17 Sep 2013 07:00:51 |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 07:08:28
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| After reading everybody else's posts, I'm glad I never bothered with DDI. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 07:29:59
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I've also avoided DDI due to the 4e shift (and unemployment) and for what it's worth I agree with everything stated here.
Perhaps they're retooling DDI itself... but it sounds like they're already prepared to answer questions of what the content will be in the future, so it's jarring that they're shutting it down for an unstated period of time.
Hopefully, as Jeremy says, they'll have the sense to credit existing subscribers with an extension. |
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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 09:56:08
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That's unfortunate. I was expecting to see previews of the new edition in the magazine's pages but this won't happen unfortunatly.
I have a feeling they're pulling Dragon/Dungeon magazine out of DDi and will keep DDi for the 4E tools only (that's if they don't just kill it) and sell the magazines seperatly in the future, either online or paperback. Just a wild guess... |
Yan
Playtester |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 15:40:02
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Damn that sucks...
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 16:25:02
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| Plaguescarred: I hope you're right. I would love to see Dragon and Dungeon return as good old-fashioned paper-and-ink magazines. I know the owner of my local gaming store would love it, too. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 17:54:45
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I'm with Richard. I still have several paper Dragons and Dungeons, and I would like to have more.
I suspect, however, that electronic "printing" is still the way to go. It reduces their cost and hypothetically removes the pagecount limits that paper publishing imposes. Ed (and others of course, but he's the shining example) can wax as loquacious as he likes, and the magazine can expand to include all of it.
They don't do that, of course... but as much as I like my paper Dragons, I prefer an electronic version if it means a greater amount of relevant content.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 18:43:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Plaguescarred: I hope you're right. I would love to see Dragon and Dungeon return as good old-fashioned paper-and-ink magazines. I know the owner of my local gaming store would love it, too.
I'd love that, too.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 18:48:58
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
I'm with Richard. I still have several paper Dragons and Dungeons, and I would like to have more.
I suspect, however, that electronic "printing" is still the way to go. It reduces their cost and hypothetically removes the pagecount limits that paper publishing imposes. Ed (and others of course, but he's the shining example) can wax as loquacious as he likes, and the magazine can expand to include all of it.
They don't do that, of course... but as much as I like my paper Dragons, I prefer an electronic version if it means a greater amount of relevant content.
Going electronic does indeed allow for more pagecount... But from what I've seen, they're not even coming close to what was previously free on the website, much less hitting the pagecount of the previously in-print magazines. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 Sep 2013 18:49:47 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 21:23:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Going electronic does indeed allow for more pagecount... But from what I've seen, they're not even coming close to what was previously free on the website, much less hitting the pagecount of the previously in-print magazines.
That's just pitiful, especially considering that subscribing to both Dragon and Dungeon was cheaper than DDI is. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 22:08:40
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| Full disclosure: I'm nostalgic for the paper-and-ink Dragon partly because it was a market I could sell Forgotten Realms short stories to. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 22:14:44
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| Does DDI not have a place for short stories? Sheesh. |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 22:28:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Full disclosure: I'm nostalgic for the paper-and-ink Dragon partly because it was a market I could sell Forgotten Realms short stories to.
Keep writing, whatever the venue, you'll have people happy to read your work. :)
'Called to Darkness' is on my list to read here in the next month. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 22:35:37
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I'm surprised WotC decided to shelve the magazines at this critical junction. Is it that difficult to keep them going for the next year until D&D Next is established?
One would think a company as large as WotC/Hasbro could spare the funds to maintain the magazine teams. If the subscriber numbers are accurate, they have a sizable chunk of change coming in from DDI that should more than pay for a pair of middling activity electronic magazines (not like they have the additional cost of print and distribution to pay for).
WotC is going about this all wrong. The magazines have always served as another avenue to sell the next edition to an established readership. It's a bit of a steady ambassador to the fanbase, The editions change, but the magazines are there to bridge people over. They also help fill in some gaps and lack of material at the launch before edition products start releasing at a steady rate.
Arguably one of the hiccups for the 4E Transition was the perceived discontinuation between print versions of the magazine and the DDI e-magazine version. And that's without the magazines actually stopping for long, the DDI version picked up very soon after the last print issue released. What's better was they offered the first DDI issue for free to help pull people in.
The cut-off between print and DDI was so sharp and well timed to the 4E switchover, many subscribers like myself found it very easy to throw the remainder of our subscription towards Paizo's Pathfinder adventures (still using 3.5E at the time). That's another thing as well, since the subscriptions paid for a publication no longer produced by that publisher, the company offered several choices for the remainder to be used (into Pathfinder, into old Dragon/Dungeon issues or store credit, or money back).
Seeing as DDI is now missing two features included in the subscription price, WotC should do something to offer an alternative value or a return of funds to the subscribers (like Paizo did at the end of their run, and Kobold Quarterly after them). Extended subscriptions, reduced subscriptions, coupon, whatever. Even if no subscribers protest, it's still the right thing to do. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 23:16:12
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| I wonder why they didn't use the blackout time to reprint older issues? That is, publish online some dragon annuals or compilations of "Best Of" content. I'd certainly feel like I was still getting my money's worth if I could get digital content like that. An issue or two that reprinted several older Realms articles would be awesome. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 17 Sep 2013 23:18:43 |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 23:49:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I wonder why they didn't use the blackout time to reprint older issues? That is, publish online some dragon annuals or compilations of "Best Of" content. I'd certainly feel like I was still getting my money's worth if I could get digital content like that. An issue or two that reprinted several older Realms articles would be awesome.
While I wish I could agree with you on this, I didn't pay for DDI so that I could simply get recycled content that is already available in one form or another...as it is I already own ever Dungeon and Dragon Magazine in digital format...working on getting the Polyhedron's but that is a bit more complicated. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2013 : 23:55:31
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Some might not feel like a simple reprint is worthwhile, but I think it could be pretty cool. Gather the first Realms articles ever published, back in the early days of Dragon, to celebrate the new 5e exploration of the Realms. The entire crew of recently-recruited players and DMs, who started with 4e, have never seen any of that stuff. Print these articles in their original unedited form including everything that was chopped for space, and the grognards will be dancing in the streets too.
Add in a few articles that none of us have ever seen before due to space considerations or changes in TSR/WotC direction, and nobody can complain that they're not getting their money's worth. I think there's at least one novel in the vaults somewhere that never got printed because of a snafu like this... put a chapter in each issue.
And the best part is... all this stuff is already generated and sitting in a box somewhere. Months (potentially years) of material, which people want, with near-zero effort. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 00:08:31
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| ...And I just saw something else to bug me. The newest Dragon has neogi as an Underdark race, hailing from the Far Realm. That pisses me off on so many levels! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 00:43:58
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It bothers me when WotC ignore stuff simply to shoehorn it into the latest "cool" thing they've come up with for any iteration of the game. If 4E will be remembered for anything (and I suspect it will be remembered for lots of things - good and bad), it will be that it took the Far Realm and shoved it so far down the throat of the fans that they started pushing out little Cthulus.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 13:05:19
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Would that be the same spelljammer neogi that come from other worlds to capture and trade slaves.
How do they explain the difference between editions with that one.
Let me guess, they dont.
They don't explain it, at least not in this article. They did a similar thing in 3E, but that one was even worse, I think -- they introduced them as slaver-type pirates. They actually took the time to say that neogi were usually in flying ships, but the book was going to ignore those and focus on ground-bound ones. I found this painfully ridiculous because they took the time to acknowledge the more interesting origin, and then dismiss it -- as if regular, sea-going pirates were more interesting than pirates in flying ships. 
I could see having a small group of neogi that somehow got stranded in the Underdark and flourished there, but I have serious issues with entirely divorcing them from their origins in space, and I don't really see why we need evil Underdark race #147. Aren't drow, illithids, beholders, derro, duergar, and all the other unfriendly folk we have down there enough? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Going Dark - DUNGEON and Dragon Magazines
