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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 04:11:28
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Is it canon that mystra was the most powerful god of the realms? I remember reading somewhere that toril was mystra's domain.that half her power was divided between her chosen and the other half was in her which was still enough to make her a greater goddess. I read that AO made her divide her power so she wouldn't be able to rule toril Unopposed....for the record Lolth's web encompasses ALL and the world is her prey...
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I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 04:47:49
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| It's my understanding that this was canon. If not canon, it was at least heavily implied. Can't say I ever liked the idea though. I don't see why Mystra should be any more powerful than Chauntea, or even Amaunator for that matter. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 05:09:39
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| Stat wise...The Earthmother/Chauntea was the most powerful power in Faerun. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 05:24:28
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quote:
Originally posted by jerrod
Is it canon that mystra was the most powerful god of the realms? I remember reading somewhere that toril was mystra's domain.that half her power was divided between her chosen and the other half was in her which was still enough to make her a greater goddess. I read that AO made her divide her power so she wouldn't be able to rule toril Unopposed....for the record Lolth's web encompasses ALL and the world is her prey...
Maybe, although she had issues rescuing Elminster from Hell. IMO she should have been able to snap her fingers and he's appear in front of her. |
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Cbad285
Learned Scribe
160 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 07:59:58
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Going to have to go ahead and agree that Mystra is the most powerful. Though Chauntee is standing right beside her.
I would also argue that Silvanus is mighty powerful... |
"Beware the Dream Fever!" |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 08:35:28
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| Was chautee that little girl in rose of sarifel? What are her stats? |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 08:38:15
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Corelleon is pretty damn beefy, I think he has the highest divine rank.
Shar is sort of even with Mystara, just does not share her power as widely or as flashy.
I think Kossuth might have some thumping power.
Waukeen is just a ferengi interloper god, and would hire whatever gods she could to help aid her fight.
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 08:38:57
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quote:
Originally posted by jerrod
Was chautee that little girl in rose of sarifel? What are her stats?
Yes she was, and I liked that depiction of her, utterly hated the book . |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 08:48:36
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| I liked her too....and hated the book. |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 08:52:40
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| I liked her too....and hated the book. |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 10:10:24
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According to 3.x stats it was Chauntea, as she was the only DvR 19 deity in the pantheon.
Cyric may have been as powerfull or more powerfull as her for some time, as there is this one novel where Mystra is angry with Adon for allowing Cyric to gather more worshippers and thus eclipsing her in power. |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 10:28:24
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Corelleon is pretty damn beefy, I think he has the highest divine rank.
Shar is sort of even with Mystara, just does not share her power as widely or as flashy.
I think Kossuth might have some thumping power.
Waukeen is just a ferengi interloper god, and would hire whatever gods she could to help aid her fight.
Power depends on those worshipping the deity. Chauntea prior to 4e was the "mightiest" though she was not showing off that power for her own amusement.
Corellon is the elven overdeity. That means the vast majority of followers are elven, which in return are fewer in numbers than humans. Given by the fact that worshippers mean power it means that corellon may be powerfull, as most gods are, but compared to human deities, not so much.
Kossuth is a deity limited to one of the elements and in regions where the element of Fire is not predominant, his worship is next to nothing. Therefore his area of influence is geographicly limited.
The mightiest evil deity in levels of power is Shar, followed by Bane while the former is a few millenia older and had more time to amass power and has her shadow weave. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 10:52:02
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| Don't forget that Mystra did indeed have to spread a good portion of her power amongst her chosen. That alone would drop her a few down a few ranks. A fully powered Mystra would probably be the most powerful deity (pre ToT at least). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 12:24:46
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Nathan Brazil  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Elkentar
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 13:06:10
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| Mystra is hands down the most powerful deity with the possible exception of Shar. It is stated in multiple novels and sourcebooks that she is able to deny magic to even other deities. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 13:47:15
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| Don't want to get pulled into a debate about this but I will say that Ed has implied her supremacy in more than one novel. I say implied because there is always an 'uncertain narrator' element to such comments in his novels. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 14:59:18
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Buuuuuut... she also has a few major weaknesses, including her own portfolio.
Like Superman, her essence is her Achille's heel (pieces of Kal-El's homeworld are anathema to him - Kryptonite). She cannot, by her very nature, 'curtail magic'.
Hence, Karsus.... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 15:42:40
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| I think Ed did imply that she was the most powerful more than once. He even said that a lot of her power was bound in her chosen and she was still the most powerful. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 17:42:10
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| Is it not obvious that All-Powerful Bane, Overlord Tyrant Above The Rest Of Those Bickerng Fools, will rise predominantlyh supreme to His exalted station above creation? The doctrines of lesser gods ignore the most fundamentally obvious Truth of the cosmos - dominance or submission, the strong must rule over the weak. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 18:10:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Elkentar
Mystra is hands down the most powerful deity with the possible exception of Shar. It is stated in multiple novels and sourcebooks that she is able to deny magic to even other deities.
However the sourcebooks state that such a ban would only effect a deity while on Toril, not on the planes. Thus what she did to Cyric in Crucible shouldn't have been possible (and Cyric later ignored the ban and performed magical feats by just taking power directly from the plane around him)
Anyway, it's Chauntea, Mystra and Shar who would be either Mystra, Chauntea, Shar or Chauntea, Mystra, Shar
Edit: Silvanus and Tyr are also listed as DvR 18 in F&P, so they would rival Shar in Power |
Edited by - Mirtek on 25 Aug 2013 18:22:10 |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 18:21:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Is it not obvious that All-Powerful Bane, Overlord Tyrant Above The Rest Of Those Bickerng Fools, will rise predominantlyh supreme to His exalted station above creation? The doctrines of lesser gods ignore the most fundamentally obvious Truth of the cosmos - dominance or submission, the strong must rule over the weak.
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The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 19:01:43
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I'm always curious when this question comes up - why is it important to know which is "most powerful"?
Personally, it seems to me that each god is the "most powerful" when it comes to their own particular portfolio and that the rest is guesswork or belief unless you actually see two gods fighting (which IMO should never happen). Power levels can also be misjudged if one god manages to trick or hoodwink another deity, if a weird mythical story gains ground among followers, or if one deity's dogma states that deity X somehow "serves" deity Y. It is true? Does it actually matter in any real way?
There have been sources in the past that stated that "Selune serves Sune" which always seemed rather odd to me. Is this a belief of Sune's church? Or is it a real understanding of the dynamics of the pantheon? Even if "true" does it really mean anything for either a Sune worshiper or a Selune worshiper?
Honestly, I've disliked the entire idea of having stat blocks for gods, even avatars. And I'm well aware they've been around since before the beginning of original D&D... I guess because some players out there have fun pretending that their mortal characters somehow can beat up a god and take their stuff. But I'd much rather have gods be distant and mysterious, only contacting PCs through dreams, portents, and temporary spiritual manifestations (like a rosy glow around an altar for Lathander, or a rapid and powerful lightning storm hitting a town for Talos). Otherwise, they can far too easily be seen as ultra-powerful PCs, or just another monster to fight.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 20:52:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Is it not obvious that All-Powerful Bane, Overlord Tyrant Above The Rest Of Those Bickerng Fools, will rise predominantlyh supreme to His exalted station above creation? The doctrines of lesser gods ignore the most fundamentally obvious Truth of the cosmos - dominance or submission, the strong must rule over the weak.
It always amazed me that Bane's 4e power-up went largely unnoticed. People were so busy complaining about Shar and Asmodeus getting all the spotlight, and I rarely heard any discussion about Bane. He probably has the most impressive army assembled, even surpassing Corellon. He has 5 or 6 actual gods serving as his exarchs. That's gangsta!
Plus, he has the worship of goblins and evil dragons (at least the ones who worship Tiamat) via the subjugation of their deities. He owns Hoar, who has the very powerful sphere of revenge (notable because Tyr and Shar both wanted to influence Hoar). Finally, he has the entire nation of Thay under his thumb. Granted, it's mostly a nation of undead, but Szass Tam has the ability to empower Bane by conquering other nations and spreading his tyranny. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 21:32:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
I'm always curious when this question comes up - why is it important to know which is "most powerful"?
Personally, it seems to me that each god is the "most powerful" when it comes to their own particular portfolio and that the rest is guesswork or belief unless you actually see two gods fighting (which IMO should never happen). Power levels can also be misjudged if one god manages to trick or hoodwink another deity, if a weird mythical story gains ground among followers, or if one deity's dogma states that deity X somehow "serves" deity Y. It is true? Does it actually matter in any real way?
There have been sources in the past that stated that "Selune serves Sune" which always seemed rather odd to me. Is this a belief of Sune's church? Or is it a real understanding of the dynamics of the pantheon? Even if "true" does it really mean anything for either a Sune worshiper or a Selune worshiper?
Honestly, I've disliked the entire idea of having stat blocks for gods, even avatars. And I'm well aware they've been around since before the beginning of original D&D... I guess because some players out there have fun pretending that their mortal characters somehow can beat up a god and take their stuff. But I'd much rather have gods be distant and mysterious, only contacting PCs through dreams, portents, and temporary spiritual manifestations (like a rosy glow around an altar for Lathander, or a rapid and powerful lightning storm hitting a town for Talos). Otherwise, they can far too easily be seen as ultra-powerful PCs, or just another monster to fight.
I totally disagree about statting gods. Avatars should definitely be statted. Some DMs just lack imagination. If you don't want your players to destroy Asmodeus, Shar, Mystra's Chosen, Larloch, Halaster, etc., then they won't.
Every challenge they encounter will simply be an illusion, or a trap, or a diversion from stopping the main target's true plan. Or they will do everything right, only to find that they were actually deceived into carrying out their enemy's plans for them.
Statting deities allows DMs to make their own decisions about how best to handle campaigns where adventurers step on a god's toes. You can always disallow such campaigns, or better yet, allow your players to face a god and get completely embarrassed. God stats are merely another tool for DMs to use, and by no means mandatory.
Also, most of the novels (particularly recent ones) involving gods depict them exactly the way you prefer. Aside from the TOT era Avatar series, I haven't seen many novel depictions that I felt were overly heavy handed. Maybe the Lady Pentient books too, but Lolth is so crazy that none of the drow really know what she wants.
In a world where Netheril, Imaskar, and Aryvandaar have existed, I can't really see gods as anything more than ultra powerful NPCs anyway. The whole Sundering is brought about by a High Magic ritual the elves worked ages ago (which also shaped Toril into the basic design it retains today). In a low magic setting, I can accept the gods as being more mysterious. But the power that clerics, wizards, warlocks, and sorcerors wield in FR makes that idea seem more out of place. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 22:34:54
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These Bane-folks keep forgetting that he's dead, and that Iyachtu Xvim has replaced him and taken his name.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 25 Aug 2013 22:35:36 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2013 : 02:44:49
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| History shows that death is only a minor inconvenience for Bane. He‘s a prime candidate for undead lichy god, methinks. I notice that he always seems to ride out edition crossovers in a dead state, yet emerge fully not-dead prior to the completion of the cycle. Plus, being dead is a great way to avoid paying taxes. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2013 : 03:04:25
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Iyachtu Xvim is being brought back to live because of the Sundering and boy won't he be pleased with his daddy ;p
As for most powerful deity pre 4e that clearly would be Mystra, followed by Shar and Chanutea.
Post 4e after its was revealed the cirtain Gods were aspects of others I'd say Gruumsh/Talos were the most powerful, after all how do you be being not just one Greater Diety, but two at once!
Gruumsh now has many, although not all of the of Talos' followers, outsider servants, and other resources in addition to the worship of vast hordes of orcs and orc hybreds, has abunch of Exarch/Demigods under his command and so on.
Honable Mention goes to Chantea who absorbed Yollada? Sune who absorbed Halani Celani, Selune who absorbed the Elven Moon Goddess.
I'd also |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2013 : 03:14:12
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Magic may suffuse all of Faerun...but Chauntea IS Faerun, the very ground...mountains, hills, rivers and all.
To say any God which walks on Faerun is more powerful than her is denying logic.
Other gods may be very powerful in their respective realms and within their portfolio...but all other gods derive their power from the mere existence of Chauntea. Without her, there would be no war between nations for Tempus to judge, no Strife for Cyric/Bane to cause, no weather to be influenced, no wild animals, no civilization...nothing.
Without Chauntea, all other gods would wither and Shar would reign supreme is my thinking. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2013 : 03:16:05
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Oddly didn't Sharess have the most powerful Avatar in 2e?
She had great or descent levels in Mage, Rogue, Fighter, Cleric, and Spelldancer (when gave unlimited spells in exchane for the extra time it took to cast them), she had nine lives which meant her avatar would come back to live if you killed it, could shapeshift at will into any cat, including her Feline Hunteress form, could basically grant her own verison of limited wish at will, could use an illusion to look like any woman you desire, I mean that is crazy powerful, especially for a demigod. Oh and a super high Charisma and Dexiterity that gave her mad AC. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2013 : 03:18:20
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| Toril would not disappear if Chauntea died. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2013 : 03:26:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Toril would not disappear if Chauntea died.
Chauntea can't really die unless Toril does...
Abier and Toril are the teets of Chauntea from which all others suckle for their existence.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 26 Aug 2013 03:32:13 |
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The most powerful deity
